Episode #55: Funding Your Toy Business with Terri-Nichelle Bradley of Brown Toy Box
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Get your notebook and pen toy people, because we’re about to get down to business. In today’s podcast episode, we talk about the grind of obtaining funding for your toy business. My guest is Terri Nichelle Bradley, the founder, and CEO of Brown Toy Box. Terri’s toy company, Brown Toy Box, makes STEAM culturally representative, accessible, and fun. In 200, Terri was named one of Inc’s 100 Top Female Founders, her company received $10,000 as a part of Targets Accelerator program and was also a recipient of the Google for Startups Black Founders Fund. Terri drops in to share her toy business journey. From failures to successes and everything in between, Terri shares tips and advice based on her personal experience.
This episode also touches on very sensitive topics to black women in business. Terri and I chat about the monetary limits black women tend to place on themselves. We talk about the importance of asking for what you need and not what you can “make work”. If you’re ready to learn some actionable next steps to take in raising funding for your toy business, give this episode a listen.
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Azhelle
You're listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, Episode Number 55.
Intro/Outro + Jingle
To Making It in The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors and entrepreneurs like you, and now your host Azhelle Wade.
Azhelle
Well hey there toy people. Welcome back to another episode of Making It in The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today I am joined by Terry Michelle Bradley, the founder and CEO of brown toy box. Terry's toy company makes steam culturally representative, accessible and fun. Her books by Brown Toy Box allow for black children to see themselves positively represented in children's products and in media, and the toys and activities that she offers make steam fun, exciting, all while expanding career possibilities for black children. I love the mission behind Terry's company. So I'm really excited to have her on the show today. So now I know some of my newer listeners have asked me. How do you go about raising funding for your toy business? toy products can be expensive. So where do you go to raise funds to invest into it? And my answer has always been just to start small. Start with a toy categories that are more affordable to produce, like paper based products. And then as your demand grows, so can your product line. But after following the posts of my guest today, I realized that my dreams may be too small, reduced by a history of just being oppressed. You know how it is black women, sometimes we make our dreams smaller to fit into what we think we're allowed to have. So today we are going to dream bigger. And that is why I invited Terry and Michelle Bradley on the show today to talk about how to find funding for your toy business. Now, Terry was recently named one of Inc's 100 top female founders of 2020. Her company was honored with a Google startups for black Founders Fund award. And she landed $10,000 as a part of target accelerators program. Now Terry has been featured on numbers of local TV shows with her product Brown Toy Box, Terry, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here.
Terry
Thank you so much. I am really excited to be here. I'm a big fan. You know that?
Azhelle
Yes, I know, I know you're a fan. But I don't know what took me so long to get you on the show. But I'm glad that you're finally here. And you come with some really valuable advice. That's the important thing. Why don't you tell us how your journey and toys began.
Terry
So I am a mom of four, all my kids are almost grown at this point. My youngest is 16. But I was just one of those moms that could never find anything that really represented my kids. So I left corporate 2012 something like that. Not too long after I went through a divorce, I just was looking for, you know, my purpose. So I was having this like mountaintop moment, it literally was a mountaintop, I was going around and we've this mountain here starting off and rather than go workout exercise, and I was going around it and I was talking to both like God and my mom who passed away and I was like to paint my life and what should I be doing? And where should I be, you know, that whole kind of thing. And I just heard God say to me, you know, look at your life. And you know, and that just started this whole thing that got me really focused on toys and thinking about representation and kids now and so I just thought you know what, I'm gonna go for it. And so I did.
Azhelle
Oh, that's amazing.That's a great sir. We've all been there. I've been there. Was brown toy box, your first endeavor in the toy industry?
Terry
It was but what I like to be really transparent with people. When I first launched from Toy Box, it failed, okay, and it failed. Because I didn't have the business behind it tight. We wanted to really focus on just culturally affirming products. So I would go out. And I wasn't negotiating wholesale prices. I wasn't. I wasn't doing any of the business pieces. I wasn't thinking about logistics, and shipping and those kinds of stuff. But this is really cute. I want kids to have that. I wasn't looking at my cost of goods, any of those things that you have to do to really have a legitimate business it was I was running into as if it was a mission or a ministry. Like I'm like doing a church ministry or something. And so Christmas biggest thing I didn't do was put on my website that you had to have your orders in by the certain date in order to guarantee shipping for Christmas. And Christmas came. I was still getting orders on December 22 23rd. And here I am thinking I gotta fulfill these orders to make sure these kids get this by Christmas. Or you know what I don't want to disappoint kids but you might get like blasted by social media. I was spending, I think the boxes at that time were like $30, or something like that. I was spending $30 just on shipping alone, oh my god, you know. And so I was able to kind of hobble along, or a few more months, and I had to shut down and said, Terry, you really need to go back to the basics and really understand the fundamentals. I've been in corporate for a long time, but I have never ran a business. I spent a good year really understanding and creating my business model and understanding like my cost of goods and my supply chain and all of that, and then was able to rewatch,
Azhelle
That's an important lesson. There's no real overnight success. I think people get enamored by that idea. But your your successes are due to your failure. So they're not a bad thing. They're just part of the process, right?
Terry
Absolutely. It's only a failure. If you don't learn from it, you win, or you learn. And if I got back in business and did the exact same thing, then that's the failure. But I learned from those mistakes, and I was able to, you know, really grow a business.
Azhelle
So tell us what is Brown Toy Box, we haven't really said what it is, what is Brown Toy Box.
Terry
So we are a children's educational problem, something that really centers and celebrates black children through theme education, purposeful play, and cultural representation. At its core, we launched as a theme kit, that includes a book on a black Trailblazer, a hands on project, and then some other fun things like stickers that reinforces the specific theme or t shirts or whatever else, right? But this fall, we are evolving into a full scale toy company, and we're starting with games and activities. And that really was a lot and due to your coaching, I mean, it really, really was because, you know, because I had thought, you know what, I'm gonna do these plastics, and I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do you guys, you can't afford that. And so I was like, start with paper base. So we're doing, we started with memory cards, bingo games, like really fun things that we let them. So in each of our kits, we have characters that reinforce the theme, because we want kids to be able to be excited about seeing themselves represented. And so the first line of toys that we're doing around our kids that our families have come to know, is our kit. And so we are really, really super excited to really introduced the kids, that DC Academy crude that DC means Curious in Swahili. And this is a very intentional storyline. But we think that it really will have good traction. And we know that because we already have, and we already have a market, to the folks who purchase our STEM kits, but also just some of our other marketing outreach that we've been able to do.
Azhelle
Yeah, people always think that the hardest part of building a toy company is like building the toy. And yeah, obviously selling it. And people don't realize the hardest part. And the most important part is actually building yourself a market. There are people out there, but you need to get them in your ecosystem. And if they're not in your ecosystem, you're not going to be able to sell to them. That's why I think you should always start with the paper based products, the more affordable products, build your IP, build your brand, and then move on to investing in the really expensive plastic products. And if you don't want to wait, you can always do some open market plastic products. Right? You can start there, you can start there.
Terry
Yeah. And we're doing that too. We're doing that too. We have a chemistry kit, and we're doing microscopes set that we're doing, but that we're going to customize and do some things. Yes. Do an OEM with with the MOQ. But you're absolutely right.
Azhelle
People don't think about that. They just want to do their own thing right off the bat. But people is like Hasbro Mattel, right? They look at that, too. Like they want to be them. But you have to remember they started so long ago, the market was so different. And Hasbro started as essentially a retailer, you know what I mean? you can't compare compare yourself like apples and oranges. You're starting in a completely different time.
Terry
You're absolutely right.
Azhelle
So how did you validate that your idea was viable?
Terry
Well, I get a lot of focus groups, I get a lot of surveys. I went to organizations and people who belong to civic groups like mocha moms, and jack and jill, which are African American moms that are really I mean, they're, they're like, you know, moms on steroids, right. And so that's their center is their kids. And so we just talked about what is it that you want to see what do you wish you had? What do you wish was out there that's not out there now? What are your hopes and dreams for your kids? You know, those kind of things. And prior to getting into starting brown toy box, my experience in my expertise within public relations, right and I worked with fortune 500 brands who are really working to build relationships with African American moms. The gatekeepers to the home already had some traction there understood the market, but I did a lot of survey I was bring in to go out to target and Walmart and buy a bunch of toys and put them in front of me awesome. Why does it speak to you or not speak to you? What is it that you, you know, what is it lacking that kind of thing?
Azhelle
I like that idea of this focus group with competitor product. I like that idea.
Terry
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, oftentimes, you know, what we would hear back was, you know, even in the packaging, right, buy these boxes buying I mean, like a mom, you know, or in books that were targeted towards black kids, instead of putting black to an animal eat animal creatures, right? Yeah. And so, for me, we don't use animals. Animals are cute and cuddly, and all that stuff. But it's also kind of insulting, like you don't trust that there's a market enough that you will put a black child on the book. So you'll put a tiger or, you know, elephants. I'm not doing that I want children to see themselves represented. And then I see them represented with an elephant. Yeah, so we did those kinds of things. But we got all of the learnings back. And we're like, Okay, so what do we want to create that we got all this information? You know, and a lot of that was, we've launched the first time I remember when we failed, and it was all about me, being a mom, I'm a mom, I know what everybody wants. Right? You know? And so I know what I want it for my kids, but I really had to cast a wider net, and ask other moms, what is it that you want for your kids? What is it that you, you know, again, what's lacking out there? And and then build from there?
Azhelle
Can we talk a little bit about the Facebook groups, because I know we were in a call. And we started talking about outreach and finding black moms. And I use Facebook groups a lot for my in my business and in The Toy Coach. But tell me, how do you use Facebook groups? And how do you find the right ones? for your product? Because there are so many
Terry
The way that I do it is do you really keep a track? Can we look at who our customers are? And we look at some of the groups that they're a part of? Yes. And we go deep there. So we we follow the money, right? So who's actually spending money in that on these type of products? And so not like who says Yeah, because it's easy to get people say, if you had this, would you buy it? If I say yes, right? But the question is, who's actually buying things like this. And so that's where we want to spend our time and our resources, because we are a very, very small team still. And you know, I don't want to do gunshot golf marketing. And so it's really important that I hone in based on customers that we do have, and we build profiles of customers who liked it. Right? And so we go into those types of Facebook groups. We're just now about to start experimenting with some other things like TikTok, I'm scared to death of it. And things like that, but we know that, you know, that's where our parents are, you know, I really started really local too
Azhelle
you did start very local. I noticed that very in Atlanta, right?
Terry
Yeah. Yeah.
Azhelle
My other question, though, is you mentioned like a couple of black Facebook groups, black moms, Facebook groups, when you were first starting, you had no real customers, how did you even find those initial groups,
Terry
So when we first started, it was mocha mom groups in a folk from PTA sounds very active in PTA, it was that kind of thing. And we spread out, right. And so then they started talking about, I know, you're focused on the Atlanta chapter, but you know, people in Charlotte, you know, and then there'd be a connection, or I started out a lot doing partnerships. And that's how I really started building awareness with the partnership. So I would, you know, even doing discount codes for a local chapter of an organization and Charlotte decided that that was a market that I really want to go go into. But hey, if you, you know, we can partner on kind of spread the word about bounce right back, all of your members will get 25% off their first three months, you know, that kind of thing. That got me into those markets. So you just have to be really scrappy, and really creative about how do you build awareness about your brand.
Azhelle
And I have to say, like, when I was looking at the history of your brand, it felt very similar to me to the kind of the story I read of Rob Angel's journey, creating Pictionary, because he too, started really local, like they sold that game just in their hometown, before it started to spread and get bigger. And it's the same thing when you're thinking about Facebook ads, I love talking about Facebook ads, I'm all about it. When you don't have a lot of money to spend, you're supposed to restrict your ads to one area. So New York City, maybe the tri state area so that your money can do more for you because it's restricted to a certain area. It's the same thing when you're building a business, you niche down if you can't, the way that I'm niching down to inventors, if you have a toy company so you're like I can't niche down that way. You niche down locally, you niche down by area, and then you saturate that area become a little mini celebrity in that area, and then those people will help you get to the next level.
Terry
Absolutely. Yeah, man. I think that's exactly the key like everybody wants to start off national, right? Yeah, your money is diluted, your impact is diluted When you are spread so thin, so start local and hyper target your local community. Yes, such good allows you to test more, right, you can have high touch to local whereas, you know, otherwise you got to do well now everybody's doing doing but you'd have to do in a more digital interaction place here, I could go in, I can do these surveys and focus groups, and I can watch and see real reactions and those kind of things. I've definitely recommend starting local,
Azhelle
I mean, and you just have to think about it from a marketing perspective. Like, if a mom is goes to her cousin's house and says, Oh, you haven't heard of Brown Toy Box to her cousin, her cousins, like know her. I've never heard of this. She's like, really, because everybody in my neighborhood loves it. That holds so much more weight than somebody just saying, Oh, I found this random Instagram ad that no one else has heard of. And you know, that holds so much more weight. So great tip, fantastic tip. Okay, so now I have seen you pop up on my LinkedIn feed nonstop since we've been connected.I'm good. Everyone says I appear everywhere. I feel like you appear everywhere. So first, I noticed you were doing like we said a bunch of local events. But then you started being featured on all these news channels. And now I'm seeing you get all of these funding opportunities, like you're landing these funding deals. And I see your process, it's slow build, but I kind of want to know, was that intentional toward your funding plan?
Terry
Absolutely. So when I first launched, I called a bunch of local, prominent entrepreneurs, I reached out, I'm a LinkedIn queen. So I reached out to a local, a lot, a lot of local prominent entrepreneurs, and they would give me like 15 minutes on the phone, and they would talk about your friends and family around you need $100,000 I'm like, I'm in trouble. Because I don't have I am the friends and family round. Most entrepreneurs are the ones that the fans and family used to always come to you for money. And so I was like, well, that's not gonna work. So what else can I do? So for me, I knew that I was going to have to have a very slow build, you know, for me, I knew that it was going to be an awareness getting right. And because of my background, I don't have a lot of money for marketing. I don't have a lot of money. But what I do know is my background in public relations. Yeah. And so I know how to leverage that to get ones because people want to be associated with the winner, right. And so I am not one of those founders that want to be a celebrity founders. That is never the reason why I do press, like and if that's your reason, you probably want to check yourself because, you know, you live by the praise, and you got to die. I say you live by a father, you die by the buttons. And so I never want to be that person. But what I do know is for everything that posts if the ink magazine, founding 100 founders that translated to cash, right, doing, you know, being a part of Google for startup, their Atlanta founders Academy got the black Founders Fund money. That translates to more eyeballs and folks wanting to pour into Brown Toy Box. So I'm super intentional about my why it's never because I want to be featured on the cover of the magazine or I want to be, it's because I know that that's the way that I'm going to capitalize my business.
Azhelle
It's so true. So when you first started brown toy box, how did you fund it? Since you didn't you know, you were the one and I'm assuming your PR game, you didn't even tap into what you knew. You were just kind of like, like you said, a ministry business, you're just doing it for the purpose. So how did you fund that first round?
Terry
I funded it the way that I wouldn't recommend no one to do with my 401K.
Azhelle
No, you didn't.
Terry
I did. I was like I'm all in I believe in this. God told me to do this business, I'm gonna use my 401 K. And I would not recommend that for anyone. Right, you know, and then it was I got to incubators and accelerators, because some of them come with capital. And the ones that I'm I gravitate to, or even really, when I first started, they all had enough capital associated with it. But you know, I don't need you to help me, right. And I did, but I thought, I don't need you to help me write a business plan. I don't need you to do this. I'm need capital. And the truth is, I wouldn't have known exactly what to do or how to spend it or leverage it in the way that will be the most impossible. So I didn't need those things. But at this point, you know, it's always only going to be things that either get me closer to my customers, or that tons of capital. So I don't do anything that's just like oh, and you have the opportunity to access the capital that that that does work for you. They're not giving you anything. And so they're like that access to capital is the trick for me. I'm very selective when it comes to those things. But that's a really good way to start to get both traction and awareness about your business and then also sometimes see the capital for your business.
Azhelle
Where do you look to find accelerator for programs to join, do you just Google them? Or do you ask for referrals from, like you said, local entrepreneurs that you've built relationships with?
Terry
So when I first started, I, I don't know, I think it was just online. And I saw this accelerator that focus on social impact. And I know Ultimately, the goal of voluntary box is to change the trajectory of the kids lives that, you know, we're creating products for, to help them expand their ideas of the possibilities for their lives. And so I applied, and I got him. And I was like, Okay, this was kind of Hush Hush. So it wasn't something that was like heavily promoted or anything like that. But then it feels almost to me, like once you're in, like, you've got the secret code, like you start hearing about other ones. But I think if you are very intentional, like if you're like I'm looking for accelerator for because now it's much more prominent where you can, you can find, and this is only like three years ago, you know, everybody's got an accelerator incubator. So you've got to be very discerning about what you spend your time trying to get into. But I think for me, it was kind of hush hush, and I found that one, and then from there that I just found so many others, and each of them have, you know, gone on for, but they were all for different reasons, you know, so the first one was social impact. The other one was really about really having a strong business estimate, or what I would recommend to people when they're like, Hey, I don't even know where to start. Again, here we go local look around for local sellers. And I think in most cities that you're gonna find some, you'll find some pretty good ones.
Azhelle
So when people go to sign up for these accelerators or grants, I'm sure that they're thinking, Okay, why is somebody going to give this money to me? What is the exchange? So what is usually the average ask when you're going into an accelerator program that is giving you funding?
Terry
So the first one, because it was really focused on social impact, It was non diluted capital, right? I think that first one was like 20 K, wow, that was given to all of the entrepreneurs. Right. So it's 20 K, given all of the entrepreneurs, you know, it was five K, and then they had a secondary component to it, which was the residency, which was 20 K. But and that was through Sara Blakely.
Azhelle
Oh, the red backpack?
Terry
Well, it wasn't the red backpack she gives, she gave us all right back to social entrepreneur, but it's focused on Atlanta, because he's based here in Atlanta. So what what you can expect with some other ones are like equity. So you got to be clear on how much equity you want to give away of your company or that I shouldn't say give away, but how much are you willing? Yeah, how much equity Are you willing to give for an investment, some are, a lot of them are a lot of your time. So when you're building a business, most important resource you have is your time, you know, and that's why you have to be very discerning about how you affiliate and which ones you you really go after. So I was doing at one point, I've been to incubators at the same time, wow. And it was a lot of time, but they're not like full time. So you don't want people to think that you got to do it, like you know, 40 hours a week, you're in this incubator accelerator. It was like Wednesday, four full days, you know, every other Wednesday for a full day for six months. But I felt like that was a good investment in my business. And it's a good investment in myself, as a leader of my business was the Sara Blakely, it was a follow up to the first part of that fellowship. And that came with $20,000. And that really was important and critical to me being able to build the business. Because if you have a private business, you know that there's actual real costs in terms of just getting inventory and you know, getting much physical boxes, and, and those kind of things. So those things were really, really helpful. But I think people should really expect a good amount of time. And just know that these incubators and accelerators, they want to talk about you, right. So they want to talk about what they've done and how they've invested in these entrepreneurs. And whether it's because you're a woman, or because you have a special niche or because so they want to be able to demonstrate that, because they came through this incubator accelerator, their business has moved this far along. But for me, that comes with an exchange. So for me, I knew all of them gonna let anyone capitalize off around 20 bucks without me getting something in return. So it wasn't just the capital. But you know, we they would be networking events that will be associated with somebody that intubated. So I'm going to go in knowing that I'm going to walk out with three or four different relationships, whether anybody introduces me or not. I think that's the other thing, don't go into it. incubator fell away with expectation that it's going to change your business are going to change your life. You've got to take that opportunity and make it be what you want it to be. And so you can't use me to promote your accelerator unless you're really doing something in my business. Right. And so the there's one that I won't name that I never give a shout out to I never mentioned because I got no value from it. And so But others, um, I feel like I'm pretty generous about talking about how great they were because they did a lot for my business. And for me as a leader,
Azhelle
Now speaking about your accelerators, why don't you tell us a little bit about the Google founders program that you're a part of? That sounds exciting.
Terry
Yeah. So the other part of this for the accelerators, incubators and Google included is that usually there's some type of pitch competition to get in some expensive application that you know, because they're really trying to get, you know, people that are really focused and know where they're going, that, you know, depending on what which one it is that has some traction. So Google, I started and like, right in the height of COVID, right, so I think I started in the end of end of March.
Azhelle
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Terry
And initially, it was planned to be in person, I think it was going to be once a month, but because of COVID, we did by leafly, virtual classes. And we cover everything from my sales strategy, customer acquisition, you know, the tech technology and cloud, leveraging the cloud. At that time, I'm trying to do the I'm talking about it. We talked about all these different components. And then we had opportunities to gain mentorship from people at Google. So I have an amazing mentor that was part of this program, and I got a Google person. And like, we have a call on Thursday, like we're winding down now. But we still have a call on Thursday. And he's been so helpful. He's helped me rethink like my KPIs and my marketing strategy, and those kinds of things. But I think as at right around August, there was an announcement that there was going to be the Black Founders Fund, and that if we were interested, we could, you know, apply to get funding from it. And so I think there were 76 founders that got funding in October 35 of them were from Atlanta. And I think that's really a factor of just how many entrepreneurs are here in Atlanta. And I think most people got between 50,000 and 100,000. Somewhere on that
Azhelle
You found out about this because of another accelerator you were already in?
Terry
No I was in I was in this one. So I was in an accelerator. And they made an announcement that they were going to be doing a fleshed out response, because social unrest, and you know, they wanted to really put their money where their messaging was, and it was great.
Azhelle
You aligned yourself with the right people?
Terry
Right, yeah, exactly. You got to be in the right places, right. And so I was already a part of it. I submitted an application, you know, talking about how we use the funds and that kind of thing. And then in September, we're supposed to have a final interview call, and I got all my talking points. And this is how I'm going to use the capital. And this is the traction I have. And so I'm just talking and I'm just like giving it to them like I am on and they're like, but really, you know, we've already decided we're giving you $50,000
Azhelle
Wow, you're like, Okay,
Terry
Okay. And this capital is a non diluted, which, you know, just means they're not taking any investment, any equity. It's just here, go do your business rant. Yes, yes. And, and so they were like,
Azhelle
Called me I need to be in this program.
Terry
I'm telling you, I'm telling you like, and there's so many other ones now, because right after I did the target, a new venture fund pitch. And so I submitted again, let me say this, it is so important that founders have their narrative down cold. Yeah, right, have a strong story, and be able to articulate it, whether you're talking to an accelerator, a potential investor, whether you're talking to just when you're a customer, or you're just talking to just somebody walking down the street, like, you should be able to say, hey, let me tell you about Brown Toy Box and then go and you know, that kind of thing. And so at this point, I mean, over the summer, I got fired for everything. So yeah, but I applied to pitch and I thought I'd add maybe to the top 10. And so I was going to be pitching the next week, and then I won $10,000. And with that also kind of affiliation to 1863 ventures, which is an amazing VC group for me and Brown Toy Box. We don't necessarily want VC money. I think if you listen to you ever listen to how I built this. Yeah. The one thing that's always interesting to me is the founders that took a lot of outside capital, private equity money that took a lot of VC money, are the ones that always say if he says what would you have done differently that would never have taken that money.
Azhelle
Really? Oh, let's explain why. What's the difference in taking VC money versus giving a piece of your equity when you join a program like some of the programs Joining,
Terry
I can tell you all the problems I've joined. I've never given any equity away. So for me, that's a deal breaker. Now I know, as I continue to build Brown Toy Box, there's gonna come a time when I'm going to have to make a decision to give away equity because I need a bigger chunk of funding. But what I also caught me was why the heck would you give someone 10% of your company for $50,000? Right, like, the math doesn't add up, right? Especially if you know, the potential of your business,
Azhelle
If you can see the trajectory, ifyou have the deals, and you just need the capital at that point. It's it's a business loan. Right?
Terry
Absolutely.
Azhelle
Yeah.
Terry
And that's, that's exactly right. And so I would rather take on debt. I know some people are risk averse, and I don't want to take on debt. I'm like, you know, all in?
Azhelle
Well, I mean, if you have a business plan, you're not doing it blindly. You're not doing it without projections, you're not doing it without proof, even proof. So I okay, I want to get into this one post that you put on LinkedIn, because this post really spoke to me, it really hit home to me. It was when you were announcing your Google fund award. And you posted and I quote, when we tell white founders we are looking to raise and initial 300 K, they ask Is that enough? And when we tell black founders, they say good luck, I get it. The response is from being beat down and dismissed. And I felt that post, but for some of my listeners, like non black listeners, they might not get it they might not understand. So I want to dive into that a little bit more with you. But I know my black listeners are like, Oh, yeah, I feel that way. I feel it.
Terry
Yeah.
Azhelle
So for me, I've had a time in my career, where I was happy making a certain level. And I literally never thought I would get to up to a level that a leader reached within a year of thinking I would never get there. But what helped me get to that point would help me think that I was worth that amount was actually somebody else in my life, seeing my value, seeing my worth, not a family member, of course, because it wouldn't be another black person. So seeing my value, seeing my worth, and saying girl, like, you should be making so much more money. And I'm like, I don't think that's true. And they're like, no, it's true. And then I went to an interview, and I asked for it because I was like I have nothing to lose. Like who cares? And they said yes. And I was like, wait, has this been happening to everyone else? Like, is this what the standard is? But so many, not all, but so many black people are still held back thinking they shouldn't ask for more. And I think it might extend to other minorities as well. Just expecting less. I feel like that's what you were saying in that post?
Terry
Oh, absolutely. It's 100%. It's like, we ask for what we think we can get and not what we need.
Azhelle
Ooh, that's good. Okay.
Terry
Yeah. So what we'll do is, I could make 50,000 work when you know, you need 300. Right? But you're so used to being told no, or maybe not even asking the question, because $300,000 Who the hell do you think you are? Right, right, that sounds astronomical. So otherwise, Tommy's gonna be like, Girl, you have lost your mind. 300,000 dollars? Yeah, you know, and I'm like, Yeah, but then when I talk to my mentors, or advisors that are, you know, that are white. So and I say, they're, like, 100, you trying to raise them? I'll say, $100,000, I required? Right. And they're like, Wait, are you sure that enough? I mean, like, have you built your salary? And you don't want to invest? If you're not, you know, the founder is not in there. And if you have, you have all your costs now, that can't be right. I should say, more experienced. And so I think we are so used to getting by, like making it work, making it work, you know, but just imagine if you could operate without fear. Right? And when you are scraping by, there's always that element of fear that I'm gonna run out of money really quickly. Because I know, while I'm at I'm creative with this money, you know, I know that I need more, but I didn't want to push my luck. Right, right, by asking for what I really needed. And so I think what has happened and allowed, even just the last six months is I've got a much more bold spirit. I'm going to tell you what I what I need. And you can say, Well, this is what I can give you. Yeah. And then I can tell you what, rather I can accept that or whether I can't or whether you know I'm willing to give equity for that or whether you know what that so we can have a conversation but I think the conversation has and because also what it says to people is like your person your life, maybe you don't know your work.
Azhelle
Yeah, they were shocked. I you know, this same person is the reason I even have my patents listed anywhere on my resume. May I never used to have enlisted? I thought that's not like what do you mean? Like, that's not a big deal? And they're like, Are you crazy? Of course, it's a big deal. And you just feel like you're not enough. You always feel like you're not enough. So it's hard. But I also there is this line, because I feel like there is a younger generation. And I see a lot of them coming up feeling a little bit self righteous feeling like, you know, I deserve this. And that there is there is a line, like there is a phase in every entrepreneurs life. And there's a phase in your career, where you're learning, and you're taking on things for less than you should be paid. You're trying and you're growing when you're new, right. But when you've got experience, you have to the thing is you have to reevaluate every couple years. And you have to say, Where have I come from? Where How far have I grown? What do I know? And then reevaluate your value and say, Okay, well now, in the toy space, I'm worth $300,000. So
Terry
Absolutely. I mean, it's so funny, though, because you're absolutely right. There are younger folks that are coming up. They're like, I want to come out of college, and I want to make this now, what is your proof point? Why would I ever pay you that? You know, yeah, and so slow, you're, oh, you're wrong, you need to get some weight, get your weight up.
Azhelle
It's a different kind of negotiation. I used to take jobs and say like, this is what I want to get paid. But I understand you don't see my value. So I'm willing to start lower. If you will reevaluate me in six months, you can totally do that. It's just a different negotiation. Right?
Terry
Absolutely. Absolutely. As opposed to, you know, I don't want to work these days. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this. Oh, I appreciate your high self esteem, but I can't hire. Yeah. So you know, that kind of it. So yeah. So when you're negotiating So yeah, I think we should clarify that piece. Is that when you are asking, are you raising capital, or whatever you're doing for your business? Let it be based on the fact that you've got a track record, and you've got some proof points, and you know, this customer segment, or you've done your, you know, I say all the time, nobody in the world can ever outwork me, you know, and I think, you know, make sure that people can look and be like, yes, she might be on a lot of stuff. But she's always about her business. Right? And so I think you got to have that too. So don't go into it with a lot of hubris and nothing to back it up.
Azhelle
Like, don't get so many good quotes from this episode. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. All right, what would you say is the hardest part about funding?
Terry
You know, it's so subjective, because the social impact baked into what we do, sometimes when I'm talking to social impact investors, they want to know how many kids can be touched, how many lives how many, they tell me that? Because we also are b2b factors. We go into schools, our kids, but then for a traditional investor, like, what's your bottom line? What is your pathway to this? What is this? What is that? So you got to know your numbers frontwards. And backwards, you got to know who you're talking to. And I will go into some of my, my meetings, like, a friendly conversation. But I hadn't done the research on the person I was talking to, what are the kind of things they invest in? What are they excited about? Like, now I do free, full recon on people, right? So I'm like, I know, you know, if I look at their Instagram, I'm like, oh, their kids go to private school, I can talk about it from that perspective, or, oh, they really are into the tech assets. And then I can talk about, like, the apps and the games that we have in development, those kinds of things. So you've got to really understand who you're talking to. And you've got to be able to really articulate your use of funds. Like, don't go in saying I want $300,000. And they ask you, what would you use it for? You're like, Oh, I just need to know, why.
Azhelle
How specific Are you getting with your funds?
Terry
like I was breaking into big buckets, right, and then on a next conversation, then we'll go into deeper. So if I'm saying that $40,000 in marketing, so I can do X, Y, and Z, the next conversation, like, you know, that was interesting what you said about what you want to do with your marketing, let's explore that a little bit more, and then I'll be able to give them a deep dive into that. Or if it's because we want to go into a different market, or we want to be you know, we want to get our cost of goods down for or repackage for retail, you know, you got to talk about why we want their money,
Azhelle
why you want your money.
Terry
Why Why should you invest in me? Why am I the right leader to do this work? So I can tell you about the market size, I can tell you about that. But why am I the person to do this work? Because really, people invest in the idea, but really, you see these companies that fail all the time and they turn around and get more money, but they will I guarantee they will be able to get money again, because people bet on them and not necessarily and you know, this half baked idea or concept or whatever. And for founders of color, you don't get that same level of leeway. You just don't. But you do have to make sure that you exude confidence and that you give people the confidence that they want to do business with you and that you can be trusted with their with their investment.
Azhelle
Now I'm wondering how do you convey your sales And profit when you're going to meet with investors, are you ever uncomfortable sharing it? And like, do you discern who you're going to really share numbers with and who you're not?
Terry
Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's like everybody can know my numbers, right? Yes, definitely. When I was first started, I was embarrassed by the numbers. I'm like, here's my $3. Look at me. But again, because like I said, our time of our most valuable resource. And so for some, there's no value in you know, and I'll say, you know what, this probably isn't going to be a great fit or whatever. But if I'm unsure, I'll go into it. I may even have my numbers with me, but I'm going to see how they may be going, right. And I've also spent a lot of time talking about why black folks buy toys, or how I know that black folks are going to buy toys, or how I know that they're the market or why the SE is really important. And, you know, if I'm spending all my time educating on who my marketing is, I'm pretty sure. I mean, I can tell you, you know, this is what I've done in sales, but we're not going to parse the numbers, because right now you're trying to validate whether I even have a legitimate business where you're trying to validate whether legitimate markets that I'm going after, right? And so there's so much education that has to be done even on just like, this is my mark. And then like, I always think, I wonder what it would have been if I you know, made chairs, because I'm just talking about furniture. I'm not talking about this, but I feel like oh, you know, there's a big market for toys, then there's even toys in general, people say people still buy toy, look at the $27 billion industry in the US 90 billion global. And they're like, Really? I thought all kids are on game? No, no, very big toy market. You know, I think last time he took a trip down the toy aisle. But I also think when you're in those meetings, and I know you're asking about the numbers, but in those meetings, you have to be able, again, people want to do business with people that they like. And so for me, one of the things that I like to always ask is, what was your favorite toy when you were a kid.
Azhelle
Yes. Oh, it's so true. I always ask that question. Yeah, get some down memory lane positive memories, hopefully.
Terry
And you get them and you got them. And they start talking about that pump and truck or this or that? And how do they make you feel when you got it. And you know, all of that. It's all psychology
Azhelle
And then tie that in? Well,that's how I'm making the children feel with Brown Toy Box.
Terry
Love that I and that's why parents are excited because their kids are so excited. So yeah.
Azhelle
I love that. So I want you to tell us, in your experience, what do you think that you need to have in your company portfolio or your pitch to increase your likelihood of receiving funding? Is it local PR, like you have a certain amount of revenue, professional experience sales, like website visits? Like what are you showing to try to get them to pull to pull in and to pull you in and give you money?
Terry
Yeah, I'm actually a few things that you have to have. I think if you can't get PR have revenue, if you can't get revenue that have PR if you can't get any easier, though, have a have someone to walk you in as an introduction. So I don't think it's any one or two things, I think, make yourself a really nice cocktail of both of them. So yeah, so for me, it was I don't have money. So I'm going to do PR, right, I'm going to really pursue really good PR and tell a really compelling story as to why this is important and why there's a market for this. But then I also through my accelerators was able to build a network. Like I have a really strong network now. But when I first started, I had no network, you know, and so it just overtone. I think it's sometimes it's a matter of build a relationship and put it in your pocket. Yeah, you don't always have to immediately go in and make an act for money. Yeah, right. But I think that's where a lot of founders go wrong, like they go in and they're like, and yeah, we know you didn't like some of the some of the relationships that I built two years ago, those seeds are planted are being harvested now, right. So it's making sure that whatever is your most compelling thing is the thing that you lead with, because it could just be that you just have this great idea. And you know how to bring it to fruition. You know, you've got affiliation with all these mom groups. So you've got this, you've got that you can show them. Or if I have just, you know, if I had this amount of money, then this is how I could get to that. And this is what that revenue would look like, in just a year. You know, for a lot of fun. You can call it you do not have the benefit of not having revenue. Yeah. When you're going to ask for money, you got to have some traction. If you think it's very rare that you're going to get capital without it with just an idea. You know, that happens. But it doesn't really happen for founders of color at this point. Now, hopefully it'll get to the point where you've got this great idea and you and you need money. That's where that creative financing comes in. And hopefully it'll be passing down the money in in the next hour or so. Right. Absolutely. And that's what I think we are called to do. I think, you know, it's too many prominent African American business leaders, athletes, entertainers that just are not reinvesting and blackballed.
Azhelle
You know, it's so funny, like, as I was applying for things, and I started working out my mission statement, it's not intentional. But what's happened a lot. I think a lot of black women have gravitated toward me. And they've been a lot of the women that I've been helping throughout building the toy coach, it's crazy. And like, at first I thought, Oh, I don't have a social mission behind The Toy Coach. And then as I was writing about it, I'm like, I think I do. And it's not just black people. It's anybody with an idea that's like a minority and idea that a big toy company won't want to invest in or thinks it's like too small time to niche. Like, it's this Yep. Like minority concept. person that I serve. So it's it's so interesting. I don't know. I think that is something you only learn.
Terry
I thought about your business a lot. And I thought, wow, yeah. So this is what this is what I was thinking, I was like, I wonder if she thought about getting incubator money. plainspoken, that's where the hustle is really. I mean, I look at all the capital that's being deployed to incubators that are serving people of color, right. And most of the money stays in those incubators, there might be like little trickle down capital that comes to the entrepreneurs that are in there. And I will say a lot of these are being built with with great intention. Right. So right, you know, they're giving good information, they are giving access to capital, you know, those type of things, but, but I thought about like, wow, like, what if Mattel had wanted to build a pipeline? And they funded you to do an incubator?
Azhelle
Oh, is that how it works?
Terry
Yeah. A lot of them that a lot of them I find like it's one of the toy industry associations said, You know what, there's not enough diversity and toys. Let's pay a jail to do an incubator for founders of color. So these are the kinds of things that I think through
Azhelle
To close out this conversation. Terry, could you give us three takeaway tips for entrepreneurs and inventors that are like just starting out that are in need of funding to make their dreams come true?
Terry
I'm going to say, look for accelerators in your market that come with capital, right. They are also a number of grants out there for women business owners, and not like going federal business, none of that kind of stuff. But there are local grants that are being dispersed right now and look in your local market. For those that stay local. that's step number one, stay local, right? I would say really, no, and learn who your market is going to be. Be very clear on who that is. If you're starting out, you probably have very limited resources. So you want to maximize those resources as much as possible. So hyper target your local community, do partnerships, do collaborations with folks that are in your sphere, do you kind of doing that same kind of work or in your lane, if it's, you know, like local mom groups, whether it's, you know, local schools and offer the PCA you know, like a discount if they, you know, do something or even if you want to test with a group of students at a school, they have got the educational product, and I love to talk to them. So they really know your story. Just take some time, spend some really good time crafting your story. And it should be your story, when I have to write a grant or an application to do something ever. Like I can do it cold because I've got this thing down, right? I don't really deviate from How did I start? Why do I do it? What is my why and so you have to know your why just really be creative. There's no linear way to do this. There's no one way to build your business. Sometimes it's going to be through building a network sometimes gonna be through local PR, sometimes it's going to be through finding investors, I would say that you have limited resources, be creative. And it's okay to not have the most beautiful packaging and the best bang, you know, when you first start, I know, I think it's Leif Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn. He said, If I had waited until LinkedIn was beautiful, I would have never launched LinkedIn. I'm on iteration number seven or eight with our boxes. So that first box is worth believe, but it was about just, you know, and that's what I encourage people to just
Azhelle
And don't invest too deeply when at first start. So you can change right?
Terry
Absolutely.
Azhelle
I did that in my first business. I invested way too deeply. So I couldn't change.Oh, no. Had I known what I know now I would have done things you know,
Terry
awesome, you know and protect your IP. You know, you trademark your name. You do those different things by things that people don't think of like I don't need to do that. I'm not that big or whatever. Trademark Your name is not enough. To get your URL No,
Azhelle
yeah, to get your URL before you register your business because they will swoop in take it.
Terry
Yeah.
Azhelle
Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Terry, this was such a fun conversation. I had a great time.
Terry
I had a great time too. I mean, you know, love you to pieces. So anything you ever need, let me know. And I'm so proud of you. And you really have done an amazing job showing women showing black women that there is a place for them in the toy industry. So kudos to you for that.
Azhelle
Thank you. Thank you so much. And before you go before I forget, tell everybody where they can find you and connect with Brown Toy Box
Terry
Sure, go to BrownToyBox.com on all social and Brown Toy Box and my website BronwToyBox.com.
Azhelle
Awesome. Thank Thank you so much again, Terry. See you later.
Terry
Bye. Thank you.
Azhelle
Okay, toy people. There you have it. My interview was Terry Michelle Bradley, founder and CEO of brown toy box. This episode should really serve as your inspiration for acquiring funding and growing your startup toy business. The biggest takeaway that I want you to walk away with from this conversation is to start local. Look for local funding opportunities, local PR opportunities, hyper focus on being known locally for your business so that you avoid diluting your marketing and advertising efforts. Now, if you love this podcast, but you haven't left a review yet, what are you waiting for? I love hearing about how this podcast influences your toy business or inspires you to become a toy entrepreneur or inventor. Also, if you want to get to know other listeners of this podcast, and hang out with me online, join the MIDI podcast Facebook group, you can grab the link in the show notes. As always, thank you so much for joining me today to listen to this podcast episode. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it means the world to me that you tuned into this one. Until next week. I'll see you later toy people.
Intro/Outro + Jingle
Thanks for listening to Making It in The Toy Industry podcast with Azhelle Wade, head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips and advice
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