Episode #177: Reinvigorating a Timeless Brand with Robert Pasin of Radio Flyer
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If someone tells you to close your eyes and picture a red wagon...what's the first thing that pops into your mind? I bet it's probably the classic and iconic Radio Flyer red wagon. In this week’s episode of Making It In The Toy Industry, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Robert Pasin, the Chief Wagon Officer of Radio Flyer.
We dove into the origin story and transformation of the iconic toy company. From nostalgic red wagons to innovative new products, Robert shares the challenges, lessons, and successes that have shaped Radio Flyer into the beloved brand it is today. Radio Flyer has humble beginnings as a family business. In our chat, Robert recounts the story of his grandfather, Antonio Pasin, who immigrated to America and started the company in 1917. Robert even reveals the true inspiration behind the name “Radio Flyer” and what the brand might have been called if it was born in another time. We discuss a pivotal period when Radio Flyer faced an existential crisis. Robert shares the challenges they encountered and how they navigated through a changing market.
If you are working on a brand that is in need of a customer-focused refresh, this is an episode you won’t want to miss. So grab your earbuds and listen in!
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Discover the heartwarming origins of Radio Flyer and the story behind its iconic name, taking you on a nostalgic journey into the world of classic toys.
How the company turned years of complacency into an era of innovation.
Find out what Radio Flyer’s loyal customers felt about the brand.
How Radio Flyer unintentionally branded a color and material combination, and how that actually led to expanding their product line.
The dangers of focusing more on functionality rather than connecting emotionally with your customers.
Hear what it was like for Robert to transition into the role of CEO
Learn how Radio Flyer's bold brand transformation reinvigorated its image and captured the hearts of new generations.
Explore the power of emotional connection and the importance of consumer insights in driving product development, as Radio Flyer creates toys that resonate deeply with children and parents alike.
Tune in to this episode and embark on an enlightening exploration of Radio Flyer's journey, finding inspiration in their resilience, passion for innovation, and commitment to creating toys that spark joy and imagination.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Connect with Robert on Linked In
Follow Radio Flyer on Instagram: @radioflyerinc
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You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 177. Welcome to Making It In The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors and entrepreneurs like you. And now your host, Elle Wade. Hey there, toy people. Ael Wade here and welcome back to another episode of The Toy Coach Podcast. Making it in the toy industry.
This is a weekly podcast brought to you by the toy coach.com. My guest today is named Robert Passin. He is the head at Radio Flyer Inc. The business founded by his grandfather in 1917. Radio Flyer is an iconic brand that holds a special place in people's hearts because it instantly transports them to a happy time, the best parts of their childhood.
Now, Robert works with a wonderful group of passionate flyers whose mission it is to create products that bring smiles to kids of all ages and to create warm memories that last a lifetime. Today, Rob's joining me on the show to share his toy story. I hope we get into some elements of success and failures and inspiration and just general camaraderie.
So Rob, welcome to the show. Thanks, Elle. It's so great to be with you. It's awesome to have you here. We met at the Taggies, was it the Taggies? Yeah. Yes we did. And I have to say, you made me feel very cool that night. I don't think it takes much to make you feel cool. No, it does. I feel, oh my gosh. You don't know.
Nobody knows cuz I'm a good personality. But yeah, when somebody. Like, who's very high up in the toy industry comes up to me and says, I know you, and like, you're really cool. I'm like, how do you know me? It's amazing. So thank you for that moment. Well, I was so excited to meet you because I've, I've read your stuff on LinkedIn and I, I think you're just such a positive, vibrant force, uh, in the toy industry.
So it's, it's really, really cool to be with you today. Oh, thank you. Okay. I'll try to be, I'll try to go easy on you then. So. So to start out, will you tell me a little bit about your toy story? Like what, like, I mean, your grandfather started this business. How much do you know about the beginnings of it and what do you first remember about the business when you were coming up?
Yeah, I mean, um, yeah, the, my first memory of radio flyer actually was when I was five years old and my dad brought me to work with him, and I have such vivid memories of that day. I, we walked in the building together, I was holding my dad's big hand and we were walking around, um, and hearing all the sounds of the factory, the punch presses and smelling the paint and.
Uh, seeing all the wagons on the conveyor line, you know, all the red wagons kind of marching along on the conveyor line. And as a little kid, it seemed like this kind of magical Rube Goldberg machine that was cranking out little red wagons and sending 'em out into the world. And that's really when I first started to become aware of.
You know, the fact that I was so lucky to be born into this family and that my grandpa started this company and we made, made this product that people love and right. Um, and that's really when I started to fall in love with radio flyer. So, do you know the story of how your grandfather father first started it?
Yeah. Can you share that with us? Yeah. Yeah. He came from a small town in northern Italy and he came to Chicago in 1914 and he was, came here in search of a better life and his family back in Italy were carpenters. Um, so his dad and grandpa were skilled craftsmen, uh, but they were very poor. They were working, working poor, working class people.
Um, so the family needed money. So they, my grandpa was only 16 years old when he came to America. He had very little money, but he had this skill, okay. Uh, being able to make things out of wood. And so he worked in any job he could find in Chicago, working on construction crews, working on the railroad, working, washing vegetables in the vegetable market.
Until he had saved up enough money to rent a small garage on the west side of Chicago, actually not far from where we are today at Radio Fire Headquarters. And in that garage he started to put those woodworking skills to, to, to work and he made. Furniture and he made those old phonograph cabinets that, that people would crank up and play records on, you know, before there were stereos and Yeah.
Um, and iPods and iPhones. Um, and so he, but he also made a wooden wagon and he called the first wagon the liberty coaster because the first thing he saw when he came to America was the Statue of Liberty. Oh. And he was very inspired by the Statue of Liberty, and, and pretty soon he was selling more wagons than anything else.
And so he stuck with wagons, and then later he adopted the steel mass production technology pioneered by the auto industry in order to mass produce the wagon. And that's what really resulted in the creation of that iconic little red wagon that everybody knows and loves and had earned. My grandpa, the nickname Little Ford, because he did for wagons what Ford did for cars.
He mass produced them and made them affordable. Uh oh. I just got chills. That's really cool. Yeah, it's a wonderful story and I just, I feel so grateful to be part of it. Yeah, you're very, very blessed, man over here. But yes. Tell me, where did the name come from? Yeah, I mean, after Liberty Coaster, my grandpa had a bunch of different names, but in the late twenties, um, he always was really inspired by the coolest, latest, greatest inventions and innovations and, um, and he admired like the captains of industry and, and stuff like that.
So, Radio was the coolest high tech invention at the time, and it also was a time of flight and people crossing the Atlantic and airplanes. So radio and fire were just two really cool buzzwords. And so if he were naming it today, it might be something like quantum ai, drone surf, I don't know, like quantum AI drone drove.
Yeah, that's so true. We're not gonna change the name. But somebody liked that. So when, so tell me about like, the transition, like you, I, I mean, I wanna know how you got into the business. What was your first Yeah. Like working in the company mm-hmm. And then transitioning into, I don't know. Yeah. How did it start?
Yeah. Well, I, I worked here summers, uh, growing up. Um, and then after college I did a year of volunteer work where I taught sixth grade. And then I came into the business and I joined the sales team. Um, And I remember probably the first week on the job, my dad said, Hey, Robert, come here. I want you to, to meet this Jerry.
He's here from the bank and he's here to help us. And so Jerry sat me down and he just started yelling at me saying, you have no cash. Do you guys get it? You have no cash. Your, your business is struggling. And he just, he read me, basically read me the riot act of how. Our, we, our business was struggling and I, I had no idea.
I was 23 years old. Yeah. I was like, wow. So how much cash you supposed to have? He's like, he's like, kid, you're clueless. You don't know anything about this business. Ray. Your guys are gonna go out of business. And he was a workout guy from the bank. So the bank sent him in to kind of shake us up because the business was really struggling.
Wow. And what year was this? This was in 1990. Uh, 1993. Okay. Uhhuh. Okay. I just wanted to orient myself. So, so, so you were working there. Your dad like threw you to the, to the wolves. It's just like, I don't wanna with my dad. My dad's now 92 years old. I love my dad. Uh, he's a wonderful guy. And so I went to, and I said, dad, what is going on?
Jerry's like, tell we're gonna go a business. And he's like, oh, don't worry about it. Like, my dad was totally low key, but we were going outta business, so, so he's like, oh my gosh, we'll figure it out. You know? And so, and you know, he was in his sixties at that point, so he and his team were, they were kind of at the end of their careers.
They were a little bit tired out. The company, you know, we, the, any company that's been around for a lo as long as ours has ups and downs, and we were in this down period. Yeah. Um, and we hadn't been innovating. We hadn't been coming out with new products and. A few months later, competitors came out with plastic wagons and oh, and so we were in this weakened financial condition.
These competitors came out with this new product that was significantly better than the old steel and wood wagons because the plastic material allowed you to mold seats into them and cup holders and all these features that. Yeah, Paris really liked and appreciated, and as soon as I saw those plastic wagons, for me it was just like, oh my gosh, we are in big, big trouble.
Okay, hold on. Were just going down. I want, I want you to, I wanna elaborate on that if you can at all, because, um, like whatever you're allowed to share, because in entrepreneurship I do. Okay. You know what? In entrepreneurship, I describe it as a rollercoaster and like mm-hmm. It's not a fun one. It's like, yeah.
It's like not fun. You're fun. Absolutely. Because the downs are associated to your livelihood. And if you have a family, their livelihood and it's just, Terrifying. So I, I wanna know, I wanna know a few things. I wanna know, what was your product assortment like in that down period before you innovated and said, we gotta kick it into high gear.
And then I'm just kind of wondering, like, what made you and your dad and his team not wanna just give up in the end? Why'd you decide to innovate and fight? Yeah, I mean, the metaphor of a rollercoaster is beautiful. I think it's so, so appropriate, and I think, you know, to answer your question, why didn't we throw in the towel?
I had fallen in love with, with radio flyer and I felt incredibly privileged that I had been handed this gift. And, you know, the fact to, to ha to be part of a brand that people have grown up with and and really love all these positive associations with it. And so I, and I had, I studied history in college.
I've always been a big fan of histories and these hero stories. And so I had this really romanticized view of like, I was gonna ride in here and, you know, save everything and, and be this, you know, amazing person. And so some of it was ego driven and, and it was being young and kind of full of, you know, full of energy and, um, and so, I just thought, this is an amazing thing that we can turn into something really great.
And so I had this real passion for it, and I think if I had didn't have that, my dad probably would've just sold the company. I mean stuck. He saw that I was really passionate about it. He gave the opportunity to. To do it. Um, and so the product lines was just the traditional steel and wood wagons. That was it.
That was the, that was it. That was it. So I have to say like when I was for a long time, yeah. That's crazy. I have to say, when I was a kid, I didn't know that it was just one specific company that was making those wagons. I think I just assumed it was like, I don't know, like some toy store that also made a wagon.
You know what I mean? Like I didn't know that a whole company was making all that's so. That's crazy. Well, I mean, Adele, we our best selling wagon. We had a product called the Town and Country Wagon, which was our wood wagon. Yeah. It was our best seller for 30 years, basically. Unchanged. Wow. You know, so it's hard to even imagine to have a product that sells so great for so long.
So you can see we had been lulled into kind of the sense of complacency. Yeah, yeah. Um, and our culture was very inwardly focused. We weren't talking to consumers, we weren't doing market research. We didn't really have a product development team. But we had this amazing brand because we've been around for so long, and the products that we had made were really good quality.
They lasted forever. And we provided great service to our customers. So we had a lot of great elements and, and foundations, um, and d n a in the company, and that's what I latched onto. And so, One of the cool things about being in a crisis like that where it was really an existential crisis, like it was not certain that we were gonna be around in a year or two, really, is that it allowed me to be able to do all this stuff.
I never would've been able to do anywhere else. I mean, because it was our family business and because it was a crisis. Yeah, I could question everything. Yeah, I could go to my dad and his team and say, can we try this? Can we do that? Right? And people were willing to do it. And so it was this incredible fertile ground for experimentation and invention and learning.
And I had a lot of nights where I would fall asleep thinking we're going out of business. So it was, yeah. So what was, what was one of your innovations that you came up with in that time? Yeah, I mean one of the things that we found, cuz I, I started talking to anybody I could talk to, I would visit independently owned toy stores.
I would go to our biggest customer Toys R Us and just ask them, well, what do you think about Radio Flyer? What was your experience with the brand when you were a kid? And what I found was that people would reflect back to me all of these wonderful stories where they would say, well, my little Red wagon was a race car.
It was a spaceship. It was a time machine. Oh, I remember playing outside with the wind in my hair and the sun in my face, and I was with my friends and my family and people I loved. And so, Up to that point, we really thought of ourselves as this very functional company. Like we stamp out wagons, we manufacture this functional product, and by talking to consumers, I understood that we don't make wagons, we make memories, you know?
Yeah. We, we deliver smiles and more memories, and that's what became our mission eventually, our mission statement. But it really helped me to key into the emotional attributes of the brand. And one of the things people would say to me is that, oh yeah, I had a radio fire tricycle when I was a kid. And so I would say, well, tell, really?
Tell me about the tricycle. And they'd say, oh yeah, it was red. It had a chrome fender, it had this big bell. It was this shiny radio fire tricycle. But we had never made a tricycle. Oh my God. The consumers remember this. What branding. I know. So these branded a color and like a finish combo. Yes. Interesting.
Yeah, so I mean, who made that tricycle? There were a lot of companies that made the tricycle that, but wow. The brands were gone. They'd gone out of business. The cons, the person couldn't remember the brand, but they had associated our brand with that product because it was, that's similar in many attributes to a wagon.
Yeah. So I did something really smart. What I made a tricycle. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I made a tricycle. You know, we designed this tricycle to be like the one that people remembered as a kit and it was this beautiful design, perfect product. It was amazing. And uh, and people would see it and say, I had that tricycle as a kit and it sold really great.
We got into Toys Ross and Target and other key customers at that time. And that's when I started to see that we could do stuff beyond wagons. Wow. If we really can to the brand essence, we can do anything. The kids can ride on anything for wheels. And that's when we really started to get a little bit of momentum, get a little bit more income, and start to be able to invest in the business.
And those tricycles were manufactured in the us. No, those were made in China. Oh, okay. So, and that's what, that's also when we started to learn how to, to so source products outside of our company, we realized that if we wanna expand our product lines to all these different product categories, we can't make everything inhouse.
Mm-hmm. We learned about that too. That was what I was gonna ask, like, how did you even know how to create something so totally new, but you went to a supplier who makes tricycles made the version for, for you. Exactly, yes. All right. That, I mean, that's awesome. Wow. So, uh, curious today, if you were to have to have experienced a low, like then, God forbid, if you were, do you think you would take the same approach to try to get out of it?
Talking to customers, talking to retailers? And would you go in person? Would you go online? I'm curious how. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, then it was all in person. Yeah. It was traffic traveling around the country. Um, it was on the phone. It was no, no internet. Um, but yeah, I think absolutely. I mean it, that's whatever somebody what, you know, whatever I think of my brand.
It doesn't really matter. It's what consumers think of the brand. And so really getting into their heads and understanding what they think about the brand. If you have an existing brand, I think that's when you can really uncover some of those insights. Uh, but you have to do it without judgment. You have to do it without your own baggage that you're bringing to it.
Um, so that you can really, if you can start to see your, your brand as, as. Your customer does, then you can start to really create, I think. Ooh. How did you do that? Like when they were giving you that feedback, was there any moment of resistance where you were like, we didn't make a tricycle. Like, we're not doing that.
Like, was there resistance at all or did you accept everything? Not for me. I mean, cuz I, I just had. I always had a pretty humble approach of like, I'm this young kid. Yeah, I'm really passionate about it, but I know I'm really clueless and I need a lot, I, I need to learn a lot. And so I had this kinda learner mindset.
But I'll tell you one story when, you know, we were, we were a small team in those days, and, and I shared, I shared an office with a couple other people, and one person was like a customer service person, and she would answer the phone and she had been at the company forever. She was, you know, close to retirement.
And one time I heard her talking on the phone, she's like, uh, no, uh, no, no. You can't come here and buy a wagon. No, we don't sell wagons here. This is a factory, you know, and she hung up the phone and I said, her name was Molly, and I said, Molly, what was that about? She's like, sometimes these people call and they want to come here and buy a wagon.
And I was like, well, sh, should we do that? Like should we sell them the wagon? Like if they wanna come here? And she's like, well, you'd have to ask your dad. Oh my God. Still the ceo. But it was just kind of this very fixed mindset of who we are because we've always been that way. That's so funny. It's, yeah.
So when you, I'm, okay. So when you, when did you step into the role that you're in today? Your CEO today? How, when did you step into that role? Yeah, I was pretty young. It was 1997. I was 20, 27, 28 years old. Um, what, but it's cause nobody else wanted the job. I don't believe that. No, I'm kidding. Basically said to my dad, you know, over those years that, you know, I'd been here for, uh, you know, whatever, five years or so.
Through that time, I just kept taking problems off my dad's desk, so any problem I would take, let me, I'll take care of it. I'd report back to him. He knew he could trust me and he was ready to, he was ready to retire. A lot of times in a family business, it's the opposite. You know, the old guy's hanging out, never went.
Yeah. Your dad was like, I'm good. I'm just, it's like, give me a P colada on the beach. He's like, I'm done. Exactly, exactly. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Okay, so you get, you took over, you said 1997. Um, yeah. And when you stepped into this role, were you nervous? Like, how did you navigate being so young in such a leadership position?
Wh. You know, I wasn't that nervous. I was pretty, you know, I was probably overly confident and I, I should have been more nervous. I mean, there I was, I did have fear of going on a business. That was thing that I was, I was scared about. And yeah, there was definitely a lot of stress at that time. Um, because, you know, we had debt.
The bank was breathing down our throat. So there was a lot of years there where, so I would say yes. I, I wasn't nervous about being in charge, but I was, I was anxious. I felt an anxious about our success and stuff. But I just, I really, I mean, thankfully because my, the way my parents raised me, especially my mom, you know, told me I was amazing from the very beginning.
So I had this probably over overinflated sense of confidence, thankfully that. Kind of got me through those, some of those challenging times. Yeah. My mom did the same thing. To me, it's just always like, you never say you can't, and now I feel like I have this unhealthy relationship with believing I could do anything.
I'm like, if I wanted to go to the moon as an astronaut, I could still do that. Like I'm just like 100% believe it. Too much. Um, but wouldn't you rather be that when than Yeah. I mean, these are the kind of people that start businesses though. The people that are like, yeah, I can do that. I can do anything.
It just, yes. Little wild. Well, it's like, I, it's always like, well, what's the downside? You know? I mean, we're not, it's not like I'm a brain surgeon, you know? It's not like somebody's life is in my hands when I'm doing this. So it's very true. It's important work and I love it. But, and you know, so it's still toys.
Go for it. It's still fun. It's still fun. Okay. Yeah. So I'm gonna, before we get into stories of success, because I know how successful you are, I do want you to share a failure. I know it's hard, but like there are lessons. There are lessons in failure. So do you remember maybe the biggest lesson that you learned, the biggest failure you had as you were coming up and taking control of this family business?
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot and I, I, we, we, I'll tell you about one, but, uh, we have a here, here at Radio Flyer, our learning and development program is called Wagon U. And so we have these Wagon U classes that are training and development. And the Wagon U class I teach basically is kind of like my greatest hits of failure.
So we talk about failure a lot here because we know that if we're gonna be creative and innovative, a lot of our products are gonna fail and things we try are gonna fail. So, But in, uh, you know, 25 years ago, during that really challenging period of time, we created this, uh, small wagon. This toy wagon that, um, uh, was the first time we did a wagon this size.
It, it was my first hot product. It was selling like crazy. It was super exciting. How small? Yeah. Um, yeah, it's about, it was about like, uh, about about the size of a piece of paper. The wagon. Oh eight a half. Okay. Oh, it was tiny. Okay. Like, and, uh, it's ki it's the one behind me here. Um, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
I see it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, um, and we saw that people were putting dolls and, and stuffed animals in this wagon. So we got this idea to do our own doll in a wagon, and we got really excited about it because we thought, okay. We can be like a big toy company. We can be like Hare, we can be like Mattel. We can do this doll.
Create this whole story. And the story was called Angel Love Wagon Babies. And this story was that these angels would make this wagon, put it, these angels would make this baby, put it in this wagon and send it down to earth just for you. It was kind of a mashup of cabbage patch and stuff, you know? Oh yeah.
So we made this TV commercial, we were pitching a toy fair, and it was a total disaster. It was like we didn't know anything about dolls. Uh, we bought all this inventory but didn't sell, and it was just, it was a huge, huge. Disaster. But I learned so much from it because I learned about what we knew, what, you know, things we were good at.
We were much better at things that kids can ride on. Um, you know, the brand, the wagon that we created, you know, it was this pink wagon. It wasn't really, didn't connect really with the Raider Fire brand at that time. Oh, interesting. Um, and there were just, and we ignored a ton of feedback along the way. So it was a huge learning.
So what, what didn't work? Was it like the style of the doll? Was it the price point? I'm just curious. Was it just. Yeah. Yeah. We presented it. At the time, the Toys Ross buyer was the, she bought more dolls than anyone in the world, if the, and she was the doll expert. We presented to her and she's like, your doll is pretty ugly.
Oh, that was what she said. Oh, no. And we're like, no, she's wrong. She doesn't get it. You know, everybody, we were like, these invent, we thought, well, we're the inventor. You know, everybody, everybody's gonna say no along the way, but then you're gonna have this big success and. Oh man. Yeah, it was just a, it was, I don't know, you know, it's hard to say sometimes when things don't work, but I think it was kind of a strange, we, it looked strange.
But this, this is good. This leads me to a very good question. We are in such, um, a society of like persistence. Our society is all about like, Give it your all for 10 years and then you can make it big. And what we don't talk about is when to know like, it's time to just move on. You know, like, so how, how did you know in times where you came out with products that you thought would work and then you decided it's just time to move on?
What was that flip, that switch for you? Yeah, it's, it's really hard. I mean, it's hard to let go of an idea of when you fall in love with it. Um, yeah. For us, once we, once we tool off a product, once we design it, tool it up and ship it to a retailer, we're that's, we're pretty much, that's it. We've spent most of the money on the investment.
So yeah. And then if it doesn't sell, then that's kind of the, it answers it for us. The hard part is leading up to when we're gonna actually tool it up and, and start production. And I think the thing that we, what causes us to decide not to go forward with something. Is if we just keep looking at it, showing it to people and getting kind of mixed reviews.
Mm-hmm. And uh, and if we're getting those kind of mixed reviews where people are like, I don't get it, I'm not sure. You know, and if we're not getting the kind of consistent, oh yeah. That's really cool. Oh yeah, that's really cool. I know it sounds, you know, maybe oversimplified, but then we'll then we'll either pause or, or stop the project.
But we tend to come out with a lot of products because Yeah. The thing I've learned after 30 years of doing this is I don't know what's gonna sell. Right. Um, I don't know what's gonna sell until we get a real product in front of a real consumer. So we just try to come out with as many products as possible, but not bet the farm on any one product.
Okay. No, that's good. Like con good, positive, consistent feedback is kind of a really good sign. But like this like kind mm-hmm. A rollercoaster. Feedback's probably like a bad sign. What's something that you came out with that you were surprised was such a hit that you were like, oh, really? Okay. Take more of those then.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think, you know, when we first came out, so we, I told you about that classic tricycle we did and we kept coming out with more tricycles and then, Um, we came out with a st a, a stroller style tricycle. So a tricycle has a push handle that has a lot of stroller like features. So it was this very highly featured a hundred dollars retail tricycle.
It was the most expensive tricycle we'd come out with, and we thought it was gonna do well, but we just didn't realize like how well it was gonna do. Like it. Wow. It was. It was just, uh, it became this huge hit. Oh. And so, so that was, that was one where I probably underestimated the, the potential and the success.
Wow. That's so cool. All right, so I'm gonna keep going toward our success stories. Your team informed me that you just earned B Corp certification. I'm not gonna pretend like I know what that means. So you go, you gotta share some other people don't. Yeah. Tell me, tell me, what does that mean for radio Flyer?
Yeah. B uh, B Corp is, it's really kinda like the gold standard of, um, certification for a company that's trying to, to do good. Oh. Um, so a company that treats its employees well, a company that tries to minimize its negative impact on the environment. A company that treats customers, well com the communities that, you know, we work in and live in.
And so it's a very rigorous process where you have to, you get evaluated on. Hundreds of different aspects of how you do business. Oh, wow. Um, so companies like Patagonia are B CORs. Oh, right. Um, and so we went through the certification process last year and we were certified and we were really thrilled because we've always tried to be a company like that.
And, and I think consumers, it's very consistent with our brand because people love radio flyer. They have these warm feelings toward radio flyer. So to me, one of the reasons why it's important to have a certification is it's kind of like the cherry on top of the Sunday of. You know, people can see, uh, consumers can see like, you know, Rainier's trying to do well to do, do well for the world too.
No, that's, what do you guys do? Like what? What's your give back program? Yeah, well, we, we do a lot. I mean, um, we have everyone in the company has, uh, three paid volunteer days off. Um, and then we provide a lot of different volunteer opportunities, you know, ranging from, you know, working in soup kitchens to.
Helping in schools. Um, that's one big thing we do. We partner with the Arbor Day Foundation so that every time we sell a product on radio flyer.com, a tree is planted and we've planted hundreds of thousands of trees to help. Wow. You know, restore the environment that way. Those are a couple, a couple things we do.
Wow, that's amazing. And I see best in business. 2022 fast companies, 10 most innovative companies in North America. I, okay. I wanna ask one of these closing session, uh, questions for your success to encapsulate your success. What are you most proud of with your company as a whole? Maybe a product you've come out with or an initiative that you've done in the past few years?
What's, what really brings true to you is like, I'm so proud of that. Yeah. The thing I'm the proudest of is really transforming the company from this. Kind of sleepy company that was on the ropes really, and, and headed out of business where the culture was pretty, it was pretty disaffected. It was pretty entitled.
It wasn't very creative. Mm-hmm. Kind of stagnant, um, to a culture and a team that's filled with really creative, really committed and compassionate people who love working here, who make it one of the best places to work in the US and who are creating all of these amazing products that go out into the world.
That do bring smiles and create warm memories for people. Um, that's the thing that I love the most about my job. Yeah. You are creating smiles with your April Fools Post I, your April Fools Post. Got me. I was like mid telling my husband and I was like, this is a joke. I got it. Okay. No, you're not alone. You got so many people, which I was thrilled with because I was like, wow, that means people think we really could do our own airlines.
That's pretty cool. I was like, maybe it's like a private jet. Like I was, like, maybe it's for their exclusive clients. Um, that, that's awesome. Okay. I would love to wrap up, um, with a few things. I'd like to talk about lessons that listeners could take away, though. I, I'm sure you've gave, you've given plenty of lessons.
Um, but if you have, if you had received, um, advice throughout your first few years of starting to take over the company. What is one best piece of advice that helped you throughout your entrepreneurial journey? Yeah, I mean, I, I've been really lucky to get a lot of great advice and, and mentorship from people.
I'd say one of the things I learned from, from my dad and, and my grandpa was that if you build a great quality product that has great design, um, Consumers will reward you over time. You know, they'll recognize it. And you can build a great brand that can really last for decades, uh, over a hundred years if you really make a great quality product That's beautifully designed.
Ugh. But now you have inspired another question. I'm sorry. How did, how did you protect that brand? Because for so long it was just the wagon and it was the colors and it was the logo. Did you have issues with knockoffs? Yeah, I mean we've always had a lot of competitors through the years and, and it's, I think the, just making a great quality product consistently over many years is actually really hard to do.
I mean, most of our competitors went outta business or decided not to stay in those products. Um, so kind of outlasting your competition could be a really great competitive strategy. Yeah. But also we, we patent anything we can, so even on that classic steel wagon, we had patented features like. The way that the handle, um, hinge was protected, so to not pinch fingers.
Um, and so we really try to patent as many mechanical features on our products, like how our wagons today fold up. Um, and then of course we've protected the trademark really, uh, diligently through the years and, um, well that's lovely. No, that's great. I mean, that's definitely a number one question that was on my mind.
How do you protect such a. Iconic, but like simple to copy visual design in the sense that somebody already did it. They did the tricycle that people thought was radio flyer without even, it's crazy. Yeah. Oh, exactly. That brings me back to my question, did you do a lot of marketing campaigns to get that embedded into people's minds?
Like how did you saturate the market with your red wagons and your Chrome, you know, finishings? Like how did you get people to associate that with radio flyers? So well, Yeah, that's a really, that's a really good question. And it, the answer is no. We did very little advertising through the years, but the nature of the product is it's, it's almost like a little billboard that's in every neighborhood because it's this red wagon, right?
With this white logo on it. And it became this ubiquitous part of, you know, suburbia and being in people's yards. And did, um, and that's really the way the brand was built. Wow. That's crazy. Okay. All right. My final question for you today, Rob, what toy or game blew your mind as a kid? Yeah. You know, when I fir when you first said that at the beginning, the, the thing that came to mind is fireworks.
It's not a toy or a game, but I just was crazy about fireworks. But I think the thing that really blew my mind was probably when I was in sixth grade and I got the first Atari. Oh. And uh, Uhhuh. And, and it was, and it was, you know, the very first Qari console was Space Invaders and Wow. I thought it was just amazing.
The coolest thing I'm to limit my screen time on the Atari. On the tv you mean? On the tv? Because that's what it was hooked up to. Yeah, it was on the TV in the basement. So, Robert, Time to turn off the Atari. That was the screen. Oh my gosh. But fireworks, I love fireworks. So funny that you said that and then you gave me a flashback to my childhood.
I loved when my dad would bring home those little. They were like little rocks that you would like throw at the ground. They would like pop and they were like little, were they pop rocks or snapping pops? Snapping pops, pop some, something like that. Right. And like you just, they were like little, supposed to be like mini, mini fireworks, but they didn't really like do anything.
They just, oh yeah. Have you tried, have you done that lately? No. You can still get 'em. I do 'em all the time with my kids. Oh you do? I see. I need to have kids. That's what, no, I'm just kidding. Oh no, that's awesome. Thanks for bringing that memory. I might have to buy some now. I might have to buy some. Well, Robert, thank you so much for being here with me today.
Where can people connect with you? Cuz they will ask. Okay. And also where can they go, um, to purchase radio flyer products? Yeah, I mean, uh, you can, you can follow me on LinkedIn. I like to post about, uh, how we design products and leadership and culture stuff there. And then our website is radio flyer.com.
Yes, you can follow him on LinkedIn and be teased on April 1st every year. No, it was a pleasure having you on the show. I hope you come back soon and we can have another conversation. But pleasure having you here, Rob. It's been a lot of fun. Well, there you have it, toy people. My interview with Robert Passin of Radio Flyer.
What I want you to take away from this episode today is resilience. We've got another lesson on resilience. If you've got a brand with a strong classic following cult, following of a classic brand, you still do have to do re. Innovation reimagination around that brand. And Robert came in when he was young with his fresh mind and ideas and found a way to reinvigorate, um, a classic brand and take it modern.
I've gotta say thank you to Robert and his team for coming on the podcast and for the fun gifts you sent my way. Thank you. Thank you. And before we close today's episode, I've gotta give a huge shout out to a TCA alumni, Karen Billard of Kubo Toys. Karen, you are a resilient toy creator yourself. So I just wanted to tip my hat to you today in this episode and say, I appreciate you when I see all the hard work you've done to be a part of T C A and the upcoming Toy Coach Showcase at Astra.
As always toy people. Thank you so much for being with me here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people. Thanks for listening to Making It In The Toy Industry Podcast with Elle Wade.
Head over to the toy coach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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