#216: The Hidden Challenges and Opportunities in Toy Licensing with Anita Castellar
Ever wondered why brands like Barbie have products in unexpected categories? Or, why licensed products often come with a premium price tag? Well, you might just be intrigued by the lesser-known complications and exhilarating opportunities that lie within the licensing labyrinth. In this episode of Making It In The Toy Industry, host Azhelle Wade interviews Anita Castellar to unveil the complex dance of toy licensing, where every step—from initial outreach to the final signature—matters immensely. More often than not, it's not just about the big names or flashy trademarks, but also about sustainable strategies and the ever-evolving consumer engagement through social media platforms.
Learn from Anita Castellar a mastermind with over two decades in the toy and licensing space, and the visionary force behind Fangirl Consulting and Brand Management. Anita doesn't just tell it like it is—she's lived it from the merchandise-lined streets of Disney theme parks to the strategic war rooms of Lucasfilm. In our discussion, she drops a golden nugget of wisdom on the true cost of licensing—think hidden fees, product testing demands, and insurance traps that can trip up the unwary manufacturer. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, as the episode pans out to explore why niche properties struggle in a landscape crowded with giants and how influencers and digital tools can propel a brand from obscurity to household fame. If your curiosity is piqued, lean in, because there’s a whole spectrum of lessons to be gobbled up.
Hit play on episode 216 for wit, wisdom, and a walkthrough of the licensing process that won't just educate but might just motivate the next big wave in the toy industry.
Episode Cliff Notes
Learn why niche properties and diversity face challenges in the licensing industry and the discrepancy between verbal support and actual opportunities for new brands.
Find out how Anita's experiences at Disney, Hasbro, and Lucasfilm shaped her understanding of product life cycles and brand longevity.
Discover the key factors that make a brand attractive for licensing from a manufacturer's perspective, including reach and consumer behaviour.
Hear about the surprising complexities and potential legal implications of protecting intellectual property in the age of AI-generated content.
Learn how small intellectual properties can strategically partner with manufacturers to begin their journey in the licensing world.
Find out Anita Castellar's personal frustration with the lack of support for non-major brands and the challenges she faced while negotiating licensing agreements.
And finally, discover the growing importance of digital elements, like AR/VR and AI, in the future landscape of toy licensing and what this could mean for the industry.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: are listening to making it in the toy industry.
[00:00:02] Episode number 216.
[00:00:04] Anita Castellar: this is going to be an unpopular opinion. There are people who are giving lots of verbal support to the idea of new brands and new products and new companies in the industry. But when it's time to actually give them an opportunity, they are Not given the support that they might need they need more education They might need more marketing and maybe they might need more time on the shelf
[00:00:56] Azhelle Wade: hey there, toy people, Azhelle Wade here, and welcome [00:01:00] back to another episode of the Toy Coach podcast, making it in the toy industry. My guest today is Anita Castellar. Anita is the founder and CEO of fangirl consulting and brand management. She's a licensing professional with over 20 years of experience in the toy and licensing space, developing top brands such as Starbucks.
[00:01:20] Star Wars brand at Disney, Lucasfilm, and Hasbro. Today, Anita is an independent consultant working with both manufacturers and brands in the areas of licensing, marketing, and brand building. Anita, welcome to this show.
[00:01:35] Anita Castellar: Thank you. Hey, toy people. Very nice to see you. Thank you for having me. I've been following along for quite some time now, so I'm really excited to be a part of it now.
[00:01:45] Oh, you've actually been listening to the podcast? I didn't know that. Sometimes I dip in and out, but I definitely catch the highlights, like your social posts and you know, sometimes I'll dive a little bit into the guests, you know, profile or something like on social. So, yeah.
[00:01:58] Azhelle Wade: And I know you have your own podcast and before [00:02:00] this, we were talking about losing mojo and I experienced that last year,
[00:02:05] Every podcast episode. I normally create like five different pieces of social content last year. I made none. It's never too late to get back on your mojo horse with your fangirl Fridays. Podcast. Yeah. .
[00:02:18] Anita Castellar: Yeah. Yeah, it was Fan Girl Friday Live, the YouTube channel's still out there.
[00:02:22] But you know, I just always used to post on Fan Girl Friday. It was the Pandemic. I was like, how else can we do different things? You know? Everybody was kind of getting innovative, so, yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:31] Azhelle Wade: But you're
[00:02:31] Anita Castellar: right. Mojo's hard to keep in business and, you know, personal things and business life, sometimes they converge and they influence how you do things, so, you know, but it's, you're right.
[00:02:41] It's probably not too late to get back on your Mojo, mojo Dojo.
[00:02:45] Azhelle Wade: Mojo Dojo Cops.
[00:02:49] Anita Castellar: Ken! Little Barbie shout out there. I
[00:02:51] Azhelle Wade: know. Oh my gosh. Okay. So today we're going to talk licensing, but before we dive in, Anita, I want you to finish the sentence for me.
[00:02:59] The thing that [00:03:00] surprised me most about the toy industry was How white it was when I first started.
[00:03:08] I was not expecting that.
[00:03:10] Anita Castellar: What? Really? Sorry, people. Sorry, toy people. Yeah, but it's been changed. It's changed a lot, right? So you could say I've been in the industry for a long time now. So, you know, I was Probably the youngest person in the room many times I was probably the brownest person in the room many times Or one of and and sometimes I was the youngest, you know youngest brownest and one of the few women Oh my gosh.
[00:03:39] Yeah, it was you know, everybody knows that the toy industry was very heavily male dominated certain sectors still are but not really You know in general the toy industry has really come a long way and i'm happy to see that i'm really happy and Proud to see that and have been a part of it. But yeah, I was really shocked, but I was also really [00:04:00] surprised at how easy it was to be in it, but hard to get in it.
[00:04:06] Can you elaborate on that?
[00:04:08] Anita Castellar: I have a degree of a shout out to my Alumni Association. They're Canisius College in Buffalo, New York, but I have a degree in business management the concentration international business, right?
[00:04:18] And I went to school in Buffalo, New York. I didn't know that Fisher Price was down the street And I could have gotten a job there. Do you see what I'm saying? I didn't know toy industry was a thing that I could get into.
[00:04:33] Azhelle Wade: That is very true. And that is why I started this podcast, but no, that, that is so true. It's. It seems like 20 years later, you
[00:04:41] Anita Castellar: need this podcast to get the information to get in.
[00:04:46] Azhelle Wade: That is so true. It's wild. Like 20 years later with multiple schools offering degrees in it. You know what I think it is? you don't want to take the risk and do something that seems crazy.
[00:04:56] It almost like a career in the toy industry almost seems like you're saying I'm going to be a [00:05:00] YouTube influencer. It's just, it sounds like,
[00:05:03] Anita Castellar: yeah,
[00:05:04] Azhelle Wade: it's like
[00:05:05] Anita Castellar: that art degree that people are like, what do you want to do with that?
[00:05:08] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, but it's actually a legitimate. Real, sometimes almost too corporate career, right?
[00:05:15] Anita Castellar: Exactly. Very corporate. I guess we can have a whole podcast on what's the price of the tour industry. But it was also much more corporate than I expected as well, you know, but. You know, and the world would spin off its axis if an action figure did not, you know, ship on time, right. And it still does.
[00:05:33] So, you know, those are things that really are important, but you don't really know that. But being on the outside, like being a consumer of toys, like you buy a toy, you don't know what exactly happens in the process and how to get there. And quite to your point of there's so many degrees from schools, there's still no degree in the business side.
[00:05:53] Right. Or the marketing side that will lead you to the toy industry directly, right? [00:06:00] And, and licensing even ne'er so like there is hardly, I know colleagues that are adjunct professors or not professors or what have you and split their time between their licensing business and teaching licensing in universities.
[00:06:15] But there's no real degree program or there's no straight path into even the licensing industry either. But I see both, you know, professional organizations like the toy association and licensing international, you know, both doing activities and making more concerted efforts to bring more people into the respective industries, you know, and reaching out offering scholarships, you know, different things like that.
[00:06:40] So accelerated programs. So there's a lot of things that are happening, but they're all kind of best kept secrets because I think we in the industry know that they're happening, but they're not for us. So I think it's really, you know, I don't know, we've got to crack that code on how to get it spilled out further.
[00:06:59] Azhelle Wade: We do. Maybe [00:07:00] there needs to be like a national toy, bring a, bring a toy person in like day or something where we all intentionally find one random person and tell them about how to break into this. Instead of
[00:07:09] Anita Castellar: bring your kid to work day, you bring somebody to
[00:07:13] Azhelle Wade: the toy industry day. Yeah. I don't know.
[00:07:15] Exactly. So speaking of the journey into the toy industry, can you share some of your journey on how you transitioned from working with major companies like Disney and Lucasfilm to starting your own business in toy licensing?
[00:07:28] Anita Castellar: Yes. I actually started working at the Disney theme parks, so I grew up, I grew up in my, in my. Career working in theme parks. So I went from like, you know, admin assistant level kind of up through the organization and learn different things. Had some good mentors along the way that taught me about product development.
[00:07:48] So in the theme parks, it's all vertical in house development. They have their own relationships with manufacturers in China. They have their own in house designers, own product [00:08:00] developers, all that stuff. So I learned the ins and outs of how to actually make product and storytelling. How do you convert what the events are or the live events or the shows or whatever, the attractions in the theme parks?
[00:08:12] Azhelle Wade: How do
[00:08:13] Anita Castellar: you convert that storytelling into product, into a tangible memory for people to take home? Right. So I learned that was my basis. And then I, when I got to Hasbro, I was learned, I learned more about marketing and how the larger retail landscape, you know, really perceive the product, how do you do that?
[00:08:31] But those basis of knowledge of product development and retelling on it still was relevant because we had to translate IP, you know, still into toys that people wanted to buy moms, whoever caregivers want to buy. And then when I got to Lucasfilm. Like I learned a different, it was like I was learning the life cycle of a product from the back end, from creating the product development and getting to shelf.
[00:08:56] So like the front end was like the licensing part, right? So when I got to Lucasfilm [00:09:00] before the Disney acquisition and then after, I was working on how to push out the brand to third party manufacturers for them to take the license. And then they create the product and get to retail and all that stuff.
[00:09:15] But I was giving them guidance up front on character selections and marketing ideas or, you know, whatever that kind of stuff was, and also kind of helping them manage their business. So that the royalties come in, you know, and I had to make my budgets. I had to, you know, everybody has a boss and, and quotas to make, but, you know, there were financial targets that I had to make through licensing royalties to come in, but I still had to make the business successful and work with the licensees in order to make sure that those manufacturers.
[00:09:47] We're doing what was right by the brand because it's not just if you're right, if you're a good licensor, you're not just doing the deals. You're a brand management like person. You are a [00:10:00] brand caretaker because you need to make sure that your brand has longevity and is around for more years to come and you don't burn it out too quickly.
[00:10:09] So that was. Partly our role. We weren't, you know, we didn't see ourselves as just deal makers. We saw ourselves as a brand care caretaker.
[00:10:17] Azhelle Wade: The licensor in this case was Lucasfilm who had Mm-Hmm. the IP rights, and they are licensing it out to other manufacturers to create that product.
[00:10:27] The manufacturer in this case is the licensee. There are times where people that know listening to this podcast that that changes with a manufacturer might switch, based if you're an inventor and you're pitching in that, then that could change the situation.
[00:10:41] Anita Castellar: So, you know, when I transitioned though, my position had transitioned to a, project, type position because I had actually transferred back to the theme parks
[00:10:50] and I
[00:10:51] was working on Star Wars Galaxy's Edge at the time. So the new lands I helped with some merchandise, you know, strategies and some product and such.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] And then that time came to an end. And it was like, okay, what do I do next? And I was like, my husband actually was the one with the idea to start the business. It's like, you've been maintaining your contacts, you've been working, you know, just kind of in the background, giving people advice. My old licensees. From Lucasfilm would call me or text me or something and be like, Hey, I'm renegotiating my license. What am I supposed, like, what am I supposed to do? Or they can't find this email that you sent. Can you like help me out? Whatever, whatever. So, and just different industry context I was making along the way.
[00:11:31] So right now I'm actually a broker. So my transition has been an agent where I can work with either, or I can work with a manufacturer or I can work with a brand owner who is the licensor and deal broker deals between the two or on behalf of each one, depending on the situation, because then I can pull up right now I'm calling upon all of my history and knowledge and industry and skillsets to offer.
[00:11:58] Customized services [00:12:00] to each client. So whatever the client wants to do, we have to suss it out, work through that vision, and then we say, okay, here's what we can do for you and your business. Right. Based off of skill sets and wishlists and all these other things that they bring to the table and financials.
[00:12:16] The manufacturers that I had worked with who were the licensees who had taken on the brand for Star Wars to manufacture product, I, some of them became really good friends and they would ask me for advice or, you know, different industry folks that I had met along the way.
[00:12:31] I kept my contacts sharp. And when it was time to launch my own consulting business, It was scary and there was no money, so we bootstrapped everything, but we made it through and I say we because my husband and I started working together and he worked in the back office type items like, you know, the billing and the structures and financials and technology that we needed to run the business because he had experience with that in his previous jobs.
[00:12:58] We're coming up on six years in [00:13:00] April.
[00:13:00] Azhelle Wade: So licensors can be as big as, Disney, Marvel, or let's say they can be as small as the toy coach. It could be someone just starting out. It could be. April showers, Afro unicorn.
[00:13:16] Anita Castellar: Yep.
[00:13:16] Azhelle Wade: What in your experience, what are the key factors that makes a brand appealing for licensing opportunities
[00:13:26] Anita Castellar: for licensing opportunities? And in this case, I'm going to speak from the manufacturer's perspective, right? Because they're the ones who usually have to take on the risk.
[00:13:35] So If they're going to look to a brand for licensing, the, there has to be some type of data that can support the risk that they're going to take on. So for instance, reach, so brand reach, you know, is there a following? Is there enough of a consumer demand for this IP that is IP is intellectual property, [00:14:00] so the actual brand itself.
[00:14:02] You know, have they been growing on social media? And is there a following for this? And has that population been asking for product, right? And saying, Oh, I wish we had a plush of your, your brand. That would be amazing. Or, you know, different things like that. So there has to be some data points. There also, if you're looking for a brand that, or you're thinking of having a brand that is also ethnically diverse.
[00:14:28] So if you're looking at a African American, you know, type brand or, or population or, you know, Hispanic or whatever the case may be, you know, is there enough of a population growth there? Pattern spending pattern. Do they have enough expendable cash to actually invest? You know, cause it's statistics say that black and brown folks are unfortunately under banked, meaning we don't have a lot of bank accounts,
[00:14:57] Azhelle Wade: right?
[00:14:58] Anita Castellar: So that's why there's cash check [00:15:00] places. But on the other hand, there's also some data that shows that black and brown people do have expendable income. Right. So it kind of depends on where you're looking and what data points you're wanting to pull from and also what the brand is and where do you want to place it at retail?
[00:15:15] What's, you know, you, the licensee, the manufacturer have to also marry up your goals for the growth of your business with the brand that you're seeking because, you know, there's a lot of mixed matches. And licensing, you can always, you can go for a large brand, a large property, like a princess, you know, Disney princess brand, or let's say Harry Potter, right?
[00:15:38] Everybody knows Harry Potter, but is that the right fit for you? Right? I mean, it could be, but it may not be. And it's a lot of drain on resources and financials and such to invest in a property just to find out later on that it's not the right fit for your company.
[00:15:57] Azhelle Wade: Clearly a Disney princess is [00:16:00] a property that is big enough that we know somebody wants to license this, but for brands that are just starting up, at what point do you say that they should consider licensing as an option?
[00:16:12] At what point would a brand like that reach out to you and say, Hey, I think I have something worth pitching for licensing opportunities.
[00:16:20] Anita Castellar: Yeah, many times licensing should be about product differentiation, right? So, like, if I have a doll, if I'm princess brand licensing person, and I already have a doll manufacturer, Why would I want another doll manufacturer?
[00:16:37] Right? Why should I care about your product? And it's a crass way of saying it, but really if you boil it down to that, it's really about, that's one of the reasons why licensors, IP holders give their brand to another manufacturer is because that product is differentiated from another one that isn't. May I may already have [00:17:00] if you have a patent on your product If you have a something trademark that no one else can copy That already is the entry point into a brand of you know, a differentiation of product.
[00:17:11] No one else can manufacture that product because You have whatever it is, the patent or the trademark or something that no one else can have, right? So I'm already going to want to listen to you then. Then I'm going to look at, you know, but that's, that's your entree point into like, let's talk about dolls or let's talk about something else.
[00:17:31] Yes, you have this, but I have this. a different point of view on that. If you have an aesthetic like on paper, you may have the exact same doll, right? No trademark, no patent that differentiates you, but your aesthetic is very different. And you've created a specific consumer base that really expects something from your company.
[00:17:54] I want to, maybe I might want to marry that up. You know, that's where collaborations happen. That's where co brands [00:18:00] happen. Right. So Super 7, for instance, the action figure company, they have a very specific aesthetic that they have curated throughout the years. So you can have action figures from Spin Master and you can have action figures from Super 7 because they're also very different in look and feel.
[00:18:20] But also in the way that they market their brand, who is their consumer base? Like who collects their brand and stuff like that? Where do they put their products at retail? So those are the types of qualities that licensors are looking for. And if you're a manufacturer that can start ticking those boxes as you pitch for the brand that you're after, that already gets you past at least the first time.
[00:18:45] It doesn't guarantee you the license, but at least it, it, it opens the door to a conversation.
[00:18:51] Azhelle Wade: From the perspective of the IP holder too, at what following point do they even come and knock at your door and say, Anita, I think I have something. Is it [00:19:00] 500, 000 followers? How many people have to be asking for that plushie?
[00:19:03] When do they know they have established a brand enough? To warrant trying to get someone else to want to license that brand from them.
[00:19:13] Anita Castellar: Yeah. Well, there's a couple of different reasons why a licensor would knock on your, on your door.
[00:19:18] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:19:18] Anita Castellar: One is if you do to your point, have social media following or a big brand that you've built out, or, you know, like Jazwares, right?
[00:19:26] Like they're a toy manufacturer at heart. But they created this line of product cause, you know, Squishmallows and now everybody wants to be a part of the Squishmallow story, right? They've had Harry Potter, you know, they've just signed on a couple other brands to be collaborative with and such. And so they include that now, people want to be a part of that story of Squishmallows.
[00:19:48] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:19:49] Anita Castellar: But on the other side, you may not have a huge following on social media, what have you. There were many times where I would discover. new manufacturers, and I [00:20:00] would approach them for the license because they had a product that I did not have in my portfolio. And if I wanted to continue to keep opening my revenue dollars or exploring opportunities for my brand to be present in different categories or with different age demographics, I had to look at what those demographics were doing and then go after those product types.
[00:20:25] Azhelle Wade: Interesting. Were you talking from like a Lucasfilm perspective when you were working full time?
[00:20:30] Anita Castellar: Yes, that was from my perspective, but also that's relative to anybody. If you, if you're a licensor and you want to continue to expand your brand into different touch points in people's lives, how do you, you have to follow where the product is.
[00:20:43] You know, you have to follow what their, their consumer patterns are, what are they eating? Are they exercising? Are they video game players? Whatever it is, you follow them.
[00:20:55] Azhelle Wade: You can start, like, if you're a small, small IP and you're, you're like, I'm [00:21:00] not as big as Disney. Like, I don't know. Jazwares not going to want to work with me.
[00:21:03] You could just look at really small manufacturers is what is kind of what you're saying. Start your partnerships at the level you're at.
[00:21:11] Anita Castellar: And vice versa. If you're a small manufacturer and you know, you can't afford from a revenue perspective or investment perspective, like a large IP, you can start with smaller IPs, you know, things that are more startup, things that may be more social media driven versus, you know, TV driven retro brands, depending on which retro brand.
[00:21:35] I mean, in fact, that's That's how one of my clients grew their, grew their business, you know, they had their own line of action figures. Then they, you know, started off with smaller brands. We worked with them to negotiate them and identify which brands. They had a wishlist and then we had connections. And so, you know, that's where the agent is helpful where they can make those [00:22:00] connections for you when you don't have the wherewithal to get there.
[00:22:03] That is
[00:22:04] Azhelle Wade: very interesting. You know, I feel like licensing always seems like this big move, big business, big thing. Never really think about it on the small scale.
[00:22:10] Anita Castellar: Yeah. You can start small to get big.
[00:22:13] Azhelle Wade: Could you walk us through the process of securing a licensing deal as detailed as you feel like getting in our short time together from like initial contact to the signing of the contract?
[00:22:23] What are some common pitfalls to avoid?
[00:22:25] Anita Castellar: The initial steps depend on if you're doing it yourself or if you're having an agent work with you. So I'm going to go from the perspective of the agent because you know, that's me, but also they can present you in a positive light usually when you don't know what to do yourself.
[00:22:43] So let's say you're a manufacturer. You don't know how to get. you know, brand X and you find yourself an agent that you work well with. And that person can get you contacts or connections or already have them. They should have them in their portfolio. And you guys, first of all, it should have a [00:23:00] meeting of the minds.
[00:23:01] Like they should, you should feel confident with them that you can give them confidential information about your business and how that you can grow it. What are you trying to get to and then they can take those things as priorities and information when they go to pitch you to a brand, right?
[00:23:20] You have to identify, first of all, what are your goals for your company? What are the goals of the types of brands you want? You can put together a wish list and then go through it with your agent and make sure that you're realistic. You know, some things are pie in the sky and that's great. But let's build a plan to get to you to that pie in the sky brand.
[00:23:40] And let's start with some of these other ones here or suggestions of these other ones, right? Okay. So once we're past that part, your agent will take hopefully a brand deck from the manufacturer, something that just as a handshake deck introduces who you are, what your capabilities are, what retail placement [00:24:00] you already have, because that's very important sometimes.
[00:24:03] What, what marketing, you know, brand pieces, can you bring to the table as a manufacturer, all those things together, those components together, the agent will take that on behalf of you to the brand owner that you have chosen. And they have a conversation. Usually it's an email outreach at first. And if you get past the email, cause it's very difficult sometimes to get hold of the licensors.
[00:24:28] If you can get past, if you can get their attention. On email and then get past the initial yes or no kind of review, then there's usually a call and me, I like to, depending on the situation, I'll either have call myself with the brand owner just to kind of prescreen and talk through some ideas on about my client and what are the goals for the license or because I want to make sure I'm making a right match as well.
[00:24:53] Right and aligning aligning priorities and aligning strategies that both people need to [00:25:00] have to say Yes, because our job as agents is to make sure we can get the fastest path to a yes So then after that I take back, you know the information there may be another call this time I might bring in my client they can speak for themselves.
[00:25:14] They can present themselves because in the end it's going to be a marriage Right. We're brokering a marriage between this brand owner And there's manufacturer and everybody has to should feel comfortable. They should be aligned in how they're going to work together. Do they like each other? It is going to be a rough relationship, like all these types of things.
[00:25:30] And those are all factors that do happen, you know? So if you go into a licensing arrangement as a manufacturer and you are not prepared for how much investment of time and energy, sometimes licensors require from the manufacturer, it can be a rough relationship. If you don't have the headcount or the internal resources of people dedicated to managing this relationship with this licensor, it can be a rough relationship and that will sour you on licensing.[00:26:00]
[00:26:00] So if you're prepared, then it's a little less, right? So some of the pitfalls, there are hidden costs in licensing that people don't always take into account. One of them is headcount and resources. Like, do you have the people to fulfill the requirements from this licensor? Some licensors are demanding with forecasts.
[00:26:21] They want quarterly forecasts all the time. Where's your business? How's it doing? They want retail update, you know, retail placement updates quarterly, monthly, depending on whoever it is. Where is it now? Where is it now? Where is it now? They have different team structures, meaning there is one person who does the licensing and the marketing, the business side.
[00:26:42] And then there's another person who actually from the licensor side who actually will take your samples or your concepts and do the daily approval process. They're not the same people usually. So you have to have that same structure or you should [00:27:00] have that same structure on your side of the brand to mirror what the licensor is doing.
[00:27:05] So if you have a business person, that business person speaks to the license or his business person, if you have a product, a toy designer or someone who can manage that process of the submissions that need to happen and get approvals and then resubmit sometimes, because if it's rejected or get changes, you have to be prepared for those changes.
[00:27:26] So that time, energy and headcount is an, like an intangible cost. That people sometimes are not prepared to do the other one that is I'm kind of a hidden cost is testing product testing So if you have a especially for children's products like lower age under 13 If you're creating a product with a brand And they require product testing before you ship then you have to be prepared for those costs You have to be prepared to send that to a lab that they choose [00:28:00] and, or you choose either way, depending on the license or some, some dictate.
[00:28:04] and you have to be prepared to pay for those testing costs. If you are not prepared for that, that's an added drain on your profit profitability on that product. And you were not prepared for that. And the other final thing that I would say that's important that is also not knowledgeable, like knowledge that's really out there is insurance, like product liability insurance.
[00:28:27] Many licenses, licensors require a license to be issued. a minimum threshold of product liability. And it's, you know, between, I would say between two and 3 million is very common. Sometimes it goes up to 5 million, depending on how risk averse the brand is. And a new one that I've just recently seen is cyber liability insurance, where if you know, you have an e commerce shop, And you're taking people's potentially taking people's contact information, their private information, [00:29:00] you know, and there's like a data breach or something like that, you know, that's very common nowadays.
[00:29:05] There's a liability insurance that is now being required by certain licensors. I know one so far, not, it's not common yet, but some people and that was high, that was like between three, three and 5 million. 5 million. On top of the product liability insurance, so you have to pay for those.
[00:29:23] Those are hidden, hidden costs. And not being prepared for those up front, because that adds into your line items, right? For cost of goods how much this item really costs me. You're amortizing out all that stuff against just the product cost itself. Yeah.
[00:29:39] Azhelle Wade: Again, why licensed products are often so expensive. That was a great walkthrough. And that was from the perspective of if you are a manufacturer looking to sign a new licensor. I was. And you also work with people the other way around the license or is looking at looking for new men. And so similar situation, just kind of reverse those two roles.
[00:29:59] Are [00:30:00] there common pitfalls for the licensor that you see when you work the other way around?
[00:30:05] Anita Castellar: You know, pitfalls for the license or is not knowing where you want to take your brand. I find that a lot like I get approached a lot to, Hey, I want to take my, I'm a social media influencer or I have a comic book property or something like that.
[00:30:20] And, you know, I want to, I want to, I want to do licensing. Okay. So when I start digging into it, sometimes they don't have, they don't have the infrastructure. They don't have someone to take samples and approve samples and review concepts, you know that the manufacturers might need They don't understand what testing requires themselves, you know, like different things like that But also sometimes unfortunately the brand is just not developed enough to be licensed There is not a consumer base that's built in because if you want someone to take on your brand And take on the risk of selling that brand then you have to have some type [00:31:00] of, you know, consumer base that's going to buy into it.
[00:31:03] Yes, it can continue to grow, but they have to have somebody to sell to, right? Like,
[00:31:09] Azhelle Wade: yeah.
[00:31:09] Anita Castellar: And you have to have somebody looking for that brand. And that's one of the, I wouldn't say pitfalls, but that's one of the obstacles sometimes of growing your brand where you don't have enough of a following.
[00:31:20] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:31:22] Anita Castellar: Some of the problems though, that I've seen is that there are what we call, might call niche properties. There are properties that are great. They have built in populations. They have a great following and yet the industry, whether it be a manufacturer or a retailer, will, won't pick it up and they won't pick it up because they don't understand it.
[00:31:47] Or they, if they don't understand it, if they do understand it, they feel it's too niche or too young. They say young, you know, like it hasn't been around for a while,
[00:31:56] Azhelle Wade: but
[00:31:57] Anita Castellar: if it's been around for five, six, [00:32:00] seven years, 10 years, you know, but it's in a digital, it's been on a digital format, or it's been on a social media format or whatever.
[00:32:07] But if they haven't heard of it, the manufacturer has not heard of it. They think it's niche or what have you. The gray area now is also diversity, like, you know, on the spectrum of diversity, whether it be anything from, you know, LGBTQ through ethnic diversity, languages, you know, whatever.
[00:32:25] There's a lot of IPs coming to the forefront. They've been in development for a while, or they've been in different platforms for a while. And this is going to be an unpopular opinion. I'm going to preface that. There is a lot of people who say that they are.
[00:32:41] Supporting diversity within the toy and licensing communities. And I would challenge that. I would say that there are people who are giving lots of verbal support to the idea of new brands and new products and new companies in the industry. But when it's time to [00:33:00] actually give them an opportunity, I find that that doesn't always come to fruition.
[00:33:08] I feel like the, if there's a retail opportunity that's given, they are Not given the same the support that they might need that it's not the same support as like a Star Wars They need more support. They need more education They might need more marketing and maybe they might need more time on the shelf in order to make the same Benchmarks that the other brands require, you know are usually turning through Sell through whatever, right?
[00:33:36] Weeks of supply, all those things. I get it. Like, I understand that people's, you know, sometimes their annual performance is based off of how their sell through happens or whatever happens, you know, their metrics as a retailer. But there has to be some part of the structure of a financial model that if you want to grow your [00:34:00] business, You need to differentiate your product, whether it be at the shelf of the retailer, whether it be in a manufacturer taking on a new brand and looking at it from a different perspective.
[00:34:11] I'll just leave it at that, but that's kind of, I don't feel that everyone's always walking the talk within the industry.
[00:34:19] Azhelle Wade: That's a big challenge in the industry going further on challenges. I'd love if you could share a challenging licensing negotiation that maybe you remember navigating and what it taught you about the business and your role in it.
[00:34:32] Anita Castellar: Some of them are like, woo, that was quick, you know, that was great. But many of them take time, you know, they take a lot of time. I just, I did one recently for a client that we started the outreach to renew our contract license in July. And we just signed the final fully executed agreement last month
[00:34:55] Azhelle Wade: in March, so July, 2023 to March of 2024. Wow. [00:35:00] And that was for a renewal.
[00:35:02] Anita Castellar: And that was for a renewal. That was for a license that we already had.
[00:35:04] Azhelle Wade: Oh!
[00:35:05] Anita Castellar: Like, I wasn't even trying to pitch something new. I just wanted to, like, you know, get this contract negotiated. Are you trying to get more money? Okay. Can I send you a check, please? I'll send you a Zelle. Can I just, like, sign this contract, please?
[00:35:24] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. Wow. So it just taught you to be patient. It sounds like patience
[00:35:30] Anita Castellar: is very, yes, because not only is it, you need patience in the licensing process because sometimes you can't reach the right person.
[00:35:37] They change a lot.
[00:35:38] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:35:39] Anita Castellar: The, the, the brand owners, just like retail buyers, the seats chain, the person in the seat changes very quickly. Sometimes, you know, it's very few times where the person stays in that position. position for years at a time. It used to be, but it's less so now, now they're moving around and moving around, moving around.
[00:35:59] So [00:36:00] you're always trying to find who's the right person to contact, right? If you don't already, if you don't have that luxury of the right contact, then there, so there's that part of the, of the patient's piece. And if you're a new manufacturer to licensing and you have an agent working for you, You may think that agent's not doing anything, right?
[00:36:19] Cause you haven't heard from them for a little bit or what have you. And you're, you're like, what are you doing? And it's like, I'm just trying to find the right person. But it looks like nothing's happening. So when you finally find the right person, then you begin the negotiation.
[00:36:34] It can be a little bit of a back and forth. You're trying to find the right product type. You're trying to find the right positioning within the two brands. You agree to work together. You get the contract done. The contract negotiation itself can be difficult if you're not used to the terms and conditions that brand owners require.
[00:36:51] It's very one sided as well. Many manufacturers come into the negotiation of the contract and they Well, this [00:37:00] confidentiality clause should be mutual. Nope. A lot of times it's not going to be, or, you know, I'm going to own all my own artwork that includes the new IP. Nope. Menu, the, the brand owner owns all iterations of that artwork that you created, even though you created it because it's a work for hire agreement essentially.
[00:37:20] And any freelancers that you hire are also under that agreement. So that freelancer does not own that art either. So you got to make sure that all assignment rights go back to the brand owner.
[00:37:30] Azhelle Wade: Interesting. And can the brand owner then use that artwork? Can they use that artwork if they want to on their own?
[00:37:36] If they want it
[00:37:36] Anita Castellar: to.
[00:37:37] Azhelle Wade: Interesting.
[00:37:39] Anita Castellar: Yeah. Usually there's a respectful way that things happen.
[00:37:43] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:37:44] Anita Castellar: Yeah. You know, sometimes they don't, they don't try not, not on purpose. Do many brand owners take that same artwork that a licensee or a manufacturer created and just start blasting it out across all of their licensees, even the competitor licensees, right?
[00:37:59] There's, [00:38:00] there's few that do that. It can happen though. And it's within their rights, depending on what happens in the contract, like how it's written. So that I did
[00:38:08] Azhelle Wade: not know. I had been thinking like, Oh, I really want to make some t shirts for my brand. I'm like, that's like a whole new business.
[00:38:13] And then you had me thinking like, Oh, I wonder if I have any followers that make shirts that would want to just do that as part of a licensing group with my brand. And I, my first thought was, so what happens after the agreement ends? And then they have that artwork of my brand. Would they have that artwork and that's their artwork now, but no, you're saying the rights at the end
[00:38:31] Anita Castellar: of the contract. There are usually clauses in the contract that state at the end of the term you have to turn over all of the materials that we gave to you as a brand owner. So if we gave you, before it used to be CDs of your style guide, right?
[00:38:46] Like, or drives that people would literally mail out, mail out stuff, you know. And you would receive the packet of stuff. So if you would dive into the, and download the illustrator file from the CD, like [00:39:00] all of that stuff would happen. Then now there's asset websites that. You can have access, you can go browse and then download what you want, you know, but the brand owner should have these assets together for you in a concise way that you can download and they're legally cleared for you to use.
[00:39:19] So then once you get there, if you say, Oh, I need something a little more jazzy or I got to do this, this, or can I use this artwork from this character, even though it doesn't exist, I can make it. They say, yes. And you create it, they still own it, you have to turn everything over to them at the end of your term.
[00:39:36] Azhelle Wade: And
[00:39:36] Anita Castellar: they go on to use it in whatever fashion they feel is best. Or sometimes they don't. Wow.
[00:39:43] Azhelle Wade: Let's move to the future.
[00:39:44] I want to talk future trends and innovations in licensing. From your perspective, what do you think are going to be some upcoming trends in the toy industry that brands should be prepared to tap into in regards to licensing?
[00:39:59] Anita Castellar: [00:40:00] I think the future, you know, there's a lot of digital aspects to the future.
[00:40:07] You know, there's AI, that's very tricky right now. Nobody has that. You know down pat I was gonna say nobody cracked that code yet, but that's what do you mean down?
[00:40:17] Azhelle Wade: How to protect your ip like what do you mean how
[00:40:20] Anita Castellar: to how to protect your ip? What is your ip in a digital future? You know, does ai have a part of it?
[00:40:27] Like if somebody can just create art You know, using artificial intelligence, but it's your brand, you know, that's being litigated in court right now, right? Like people are trying to decide what is, you know, original art, what's not original art, what part do I own? What part is just, you know fan art kind of, you know, idea.
[00:40:49] there's a lot of that. That's going to be that you have to keep up on and be aware of what's happening in the legal space around. Artificial intelligence. [00:41:00] A
[00:41:00] Azhelle Wade: little bit of a story around that. I was doing a AI. post series where I was creating AI toys and games based on Google trends.
[00:41:09] I did it around Taylor Swift and her, her boyfriend for the super bowl. And then I posted it much later than I'd done it. When I posted it, I went back to like rerender something. I think I was trying to record the process and in going back and doing it literally like two weeks after doing it the first time.
[00:41:28] It had a totally different response and it said, I can't render something. Based on this person, because I can't render something based on a specific person. And I was like, Oh, they're already updating. But it's interesting because you can render copy in the voice of a copywriter. So are they going to also limit that?
[00:41:47] Like, I mean, if they limit that, that limits the whole, all of their intelligence.
[00:41:51] Anita Castellar: People's voices people's images. They're, you know, their brand, of course, their artwork, like you can, they were training [00:42:00] artificial intelligence to create art based off those people's specific art styles, but that art style is their style, right?
[00:42:08] That's their trademark but then the AI basically stole it
[00:42:11] Azhelle Wade: because
[00:42:12] Anita Castellar: like, if anybody else, a human were to do somebody's art. in that art style, they would be, you know, brought up in front of a court or whatever.
[00:42:22] Now the AI was trained.
[00:42:24] Azhelle Wade: Right
[00:42:25] Anita Castellar: to use these art people's styles to create the art in that styles. So didn't you just do my art? Mm hmm, like that's the whole that so anyway, so you keep an eye on that
[00:42:36] Azhelle Wade: Yeah,
[00:42:37] Anita Castellar: keep up on the legalities read up on it Even if you don't want to participate in it just know so you don't fall into the trap of doing something that you shouldn't have
[00:42:45] Azhelle Wade: Right.
[00:42:46] Yeah,
[00:42:47] Anita Castellar: so That's part of it. And then if you're going to use AI, then make sure you use it properly. You know, I mean, whatever properly turns out to be. The social media trends is a big deal too. You know you know, looking at, [00:43:00] at the creator economy and seeing, you know, that's going to be even bigger. I mean, Mr.
[00:43:05] Beast has become this huge, huge icon of going from creator economy to legitimate businesses. . A little bit controversial and you know, is he exploiting poor people in order to do things? That's a whole, go Google that.
[00:43:21] But, you know, either way, he is the poster boy right now of having moved from creator, economy, social media influencer to
[00:43:33] Azhelle Wade: It's a world changing business. It's shocking what he's done. It's yeah. It's yeah.
[00:43:37] Anita Castellar: So creator economy creators on like licensing, doing business with them. That's I don't think that's going away.
[00:43:44] Azhelle Wade: You think it's going to keep growing? I've been wondering.
[00:43:48] Anita Castellar: I think it, I think we're plateauing to a certain degree.
[00:43:51] I think we're leveling out, but I think there's still opportunities within there. You just have to find the right ones again, marrying it up and finding the right [00:44:00] ones to work with. You. But also being cognizant that these are creative people and sometimes you have to work with them a little bit differently.
[00:44:08] But if you want specific things from them, you have to write it down. I tell everybody, write that stuff down in a contract.
[00:44:14] Azhelle Wade: If you
[00:44:14] Anita Castellar: want them to fulfill any type of specific requirements or whatever, make sure you write all those things down so that it's very clear to both parties.
[00:44:23] Azhelle Wade: How do you see the role of AR and VR coming in and changing licensing strategies?
[00:44:30] Do you see it affecting licensing at all?
[00:44:34] Anita Castellar: Not a lot yet. The, mostly in the video game space you'll see licenses and in the VR space. But I think there's room for VR in experiential. I think, you know, the way you have fortnight concerts and stuff, you know, online, I think that that could be taken to be into the VR space and I'm sure somebody is working on it already and, you know, and then people can be in it, they can be at a [00:45:00] concert.
[00:45:00] I mean, how many people would have loved to have been at the Taylor Swift concert on an Oculus,
[00:45:04] Azhelle Wade: right?
[00:45:04] Anita Castellar: Right. You know, and then you could just pay for that. Pay for a ticket.
[00:45:08] Azhelle Wade: And that's a new category then. Cause licensing, you license out in categories. I do know one company that is doing AR toys, but they said it's holo toys. They said when they reached out to, I think it was like Paw Patrol, who's License sores. they, they said that AR wasn't a category that they licensed out yet, so it was kind of easy for them to get cause they were one of the few manufacturers that could produce a product with it.
[00:45:35] Anita Castellar: Well, AR is not new. Yeah. AR has always been used though in marketing. It's like a QR code, right? Like it was always used in marketing. It was a added on, usually the way I saw it in licensing and toys was it was an additional piece.
[00:45:49] Azhelle Wade: To
[00:45:49] Anita Castellar: the payoff of playing with a toy.
[00:45:51] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah. But they didn't have it as a category.
[00:45:55] Anita Castellar: No, as a specific digital, collectible digital toy category. [00:46:00] No, but there is a big thing now for digital. There's like a thing, like a trend, meaning marrying up physical and digital products. And so you're extending either the digital world into the physical with a physical toy or vice versa, right, where you have a physical toy and I give this digital overlay, but having the digital overlay of the AR that's not new people use like you unlock this little content thing people run around characters are on the table.
[00:46:25] So it's not new. Right. But it's exactly. Yeah, you can see, you know, through the projection of your AR. Yeah. But that's not new, but as a specific category, licensing, yeah, that's new. I hadn't heard. Isn't
[00:46:40] Azhelle Wade: that wild?
[00:46:41] Anita Castellar: Yeah. That's new.
[00:46:43] Azhelle Wade: So further in, in new things in licensing, do you see sustainability becoming a, an additional trend?
[00:46:51] Everyone's talking. I don't know. I feel the same way about sustainability that you mentioned diversity. I feel like everyone's talking about it, but nobody's actually doing it some people are, they are removing [00:47:00] plastic from their packaging. But I think that was driven by, you know, certain retailers want us to be sustainable and oh, when we looked into it actually will save us money.
[00:47:09] What do you see in the licensing side in regards to sustainability?
[00:47:13] Anita Castellar: I see the similar what you're saying. Okay. You know, overall, though, I think everyone has would like to be able to support this type of licensing. Some people find it as part of their inherent, like heart of their licensing, if they are a brand that is surrounded by that type of idea.
[00:47:34] So, you know, I did a deal with the national park service and the, and they had t shirts and they had all these other kinds of, you know, projects that were already licensed, but you know, the, the differentiation that we went into was that. All of the products that we're going to create for your brand are only going to be sustainable type products not You know this other stuff.
[00:47:54] I mean like make it makes sense, right? Like you're not gonna so like Licensed yeah, throw [00:48:00] away plastics for the national park service. Yeah So that is At the core and inherently a part of that type of idea, which makes sense. But, you know, just overall, I think people have the intent. They really want to support sustainability, but for some reason, the costs don't come down.
[00:48:18] I've been hearing this forever. The costs are not coming down. And so then it makes it cost prohibitive sometimes to really be utilizing just sustainable or reusable products or what have you, you know, Like, you know, so some things are more feasible, but really in the longterm, it comes down to costs and manufacturers have to be managing those versus sustainability piece.
[00:48:42] Some people are like, that's the right thing to do. It should be just your business model. It's all about opinion and really what your focus is. If your company is willing to take that hit and willing to do the right thing by the products, using sustainable products, then I applaud you and go for it. Where I've seen some of it making a little of [00:49:00] a difference is in the sampling.
[00:49:03] A lot of licensees, manufacturers are cutting back on how many samples they're creating for the licensors or for retail. You know, people, retails, a lot of times the buyers like to see, well, I want to see a sample or I want to, now they're willing to be more flexible. right? Or within the submission process of each point of the manufacturing process, you had to send a physical sample in.
[00:49:26] Now there are times where the licensors are more flexible and they'll take photos. So you don't have to like, you know do all that plus ship plus, you know all this stuff And then you know in the end like if you have at the end of the contract term If you haven't sold through all of your inventory There are different ways that you can kind of what's the word i'm looking for you end the contract either by selling through your inventory You destroy the inventory You sell it back to the read, to the licensor at like a minimal cost, or you have to just give it to them either way.
[00:49:58] And now there are times where [00:50:00] we've been able to negotiate that we will donate the product. We will donate the inventory to a charity. And there's actually charity. There's an actual organization. That is working with Licensing International right now that is all about trying to gather up people's extra inventory or inventory or samples at trade shows.
[00:50:20] You can turn it over to this, you know, certain organizations that are present if they're present at the trade show and that way you don't have to ship your product back. You can just donate it to this one organization and they will pick a charity or work with the various charities, you know, or natural disasters or what have you and they will, you know.
[00:50:38] Dis dispense the product as needed in, in that fashion. And you have been able to donate the product and not destroy it and not be wasteful and not landfill it. You know, those types of things.
[00:50:48] Azhelle Wade: When you mentioned that you created a licensing deal with a national park. That sounded like a way that someone really expanded their product reach in a new way.
[00:50:59] [00:51:00] Like the thought process of, we want to do sustainable products, but it doesn't really fit in our assortment. Oh, what if we kind of open up a new market using the audience of. Someone completely separate from what we're doing and it gives us a reason and a place to kind of test if this can even work. If we can be more sustainable in our other products.
[00:51:17] Right. And you
[00:51:18] Anita Castellar: create a story at retail too though. Like for instance, there's other brands like Spongebob, for instance, you know, Paramount, Nickelodeon, Paramount. They now have a charity that they're working with on the Spongebob brand for the ocean. So. You know, there are mechanisms that they are putting in place in their licensing program as the license or as the brand owner to incentivize manufacturers to create more sustainable products with the Spongebob brand, right?
[00:51:47] And so there's different ways to go about it as a brand owner. You can also encourage. the manufacturing community to do more sustainable products. If you allow them incentives, you know, depending on what [00:52:00] incentives you're willing to do, you can donate some of the royalties that you're going to get from the manufacturer to the charity.
[00:52:06] You can knock down the royalty rate for the, you know, whatever, just, it kind of depends on what you want to do.
[00:52:11] Azhelle Wade: That's great. That's really good. Products of
[00:52:14] Anita Castellar: Change is one of the organizations. You know, that they have popped up in the licensing industry to work on sustainability and infuse sustainability.
[00:52:23] But you're right, the diversity piece is a little bit challenging, but yeah, the licensing international group has actually created the accelerator program, which is something that might be relevant for, you know, toy people that are following the toy coach. You know, the applications are actually open right now till the end of April.
[00:52:41] Azhelle Wade: We'll put the link in the show notes to Licensing International's Accelerator Program. You mentioned that social media, the creator economy is on the rise. Maybe we're plateauing, but it's not going to go away.
[00:52:51] But definitely social media has still become a big part. In toy development and licensing, how can [00:53:00] manufacturers and or IP owners utilize social media to make sure that their partnerships are successful? Are there any examples you've seen in the past that you can share?
[00:53:12] Anita Castellar: I think the first thing that everyone should do on social media when you have a new licensing or even a new product, right, but a new licensing partnership and stuff is tell people about it.
[00:53:22] You know, my, my old boss, Paul Southern, he had a lot of quips at Lucasfilm and he's still there, but he, you know, he, I'll never forget one time he told me your product should be placed in danger of being bought. Right. And so in order to do that, you have to tell people about it. You have to tell people what it is, why it's wonderful, where to get it, direct the traffic.
[00:53:44] How do you do that? Cause you can't go individually and speak to each person, press release, press releases. They get you do that. That's one tactic, right? But then those press releases go out to trade magazines.
[00:53:58] Azhelle Wade: Yes. The trade
[00:53:58] Anita Castellar: magazines put them on social [00:54:00] media because now magazines are digital mostly.
[00:54:02] Right. For the
[00:54:03] Azhelle Wade: most
[00:54:03] Anita Castellar: part. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you yourself as the manufacturer or the brand owner hopefully will also put it on your own social media. Re share, re share, re share, right? So it, it, it begins to percolate out into the, the mind space of social media. So that's one way to be able to utilize social media.
[00:54:21] You can use social media creators You know, partnerships and such, but it really depends again, making sure that you're very clear about your expectations and you're very clear about what they can and will deliver. I've heard some, you know, hit or miss stories about utilizing social media, you know, creators and not being able to get your ROI back.
[00:54:43] On the investment of paying them sometimes you can work with micro influencers as opposed to these really big, you know Famous influencer, you don't always need famous influencers You just get someone who has a really good following who has a very [00:55:00] engaged following.
[00:55:01] Azhelle Wade: Yeah
[00:55:01] Anita Castellar: Who will pick up like I bought a You know, doggie stick recently because I follow this dog online and the owner was like, this is great for my dog.
[00:55:09] The idea is that you can aim an influencer, a person who has a good social media account who communicates often, who has an engaged follower.
[00:55:20] You know, community, they can be an influencer for you, for your brand, for your product, but if they're the right partner for your product as well. Right. So if you're going after a demographic that you don't currently go after, but you have a product you want to get into there and expand your reach that way, then you partner with someone to get to that level, right.
[00:55:40] Or to get to that population. So you reach out and there's agencies. But there's also just reaching out to small micro influencers sometimes, just messaging them. So that's a partnership. And then also on social media platforms nowadays, if you're a manufacturer and you're having a hard time getting your product placed at [00:56:00] retail, like let's say Walmart or Target or whoever, these, these social media platforms also have their own e commerce shops that you can utilize.
[00:56:08] You know, you can sell on Instagram, you can sell on Facebook,
[00:56:13] Azhelle Wade: before we close, Anita, I want to, I want you to share where people can reach out to you. Cause I'm sure from all the information you've gave, somebody's listening and they want to work with you.
[00:56:21] So if somebody wants to work with you, where can they reach you?
[00:56:23] Anita Castellar: Well, I'm always available on LinkedIn. You can always catch me there. I'm always posting or my company posts or whatever. Have you there? We have social platforms as well. We're on Instagram and we're on on Facebook But really if you want to send me an email just info at FGLicensing.
[00:56:40] com Is easiest way to get to me, you know, and I'm happy to respond to emails that way
[00:56:48] Azhelle Wade: And now they know you're a dog mom. So like just extra bonus points. No, no, no. It's my
[00:56:53] Anita Castellar: Daughter to not let my dog bark. It's
[00:56:56] Azhelle Wade: okay. It's real life. We will [00:57:00] also put the links in the show notes just in case you weren't able to write it down.
[00:57:04] So head over to the toy coach. com forward slash two one six. And my final question for you, Anita, it's my favorite question. What toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:57:14] Anita Castellar: Simon. Really? I love Simon. I still love Simon.
[00:57:18] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:57:20] Anita Castellar: I could play Simon today if I really, if you get me a Simon, I'd be like, Oh my God.
[00:57:25] Azhelle Wade: So
[00:57:26] Anita Castellar: yeah, I love the, the color challenge, you know, and how it's speed up and speed up.
[00:57:30] And I would try to continue to outdo myself or how long I could do it for. Or
[00:57:35] Azhelle Wade: I
[00:57:35] Anita Castellar: loved Simon. Yeah. I was a big fan.
[00:57:37] Azhelle Wade: Oh, fantastic. Well, it was a pleasure having you here on the podcast. I hope you have a great rest of your day, Anita.
[00:57:42] Anita Castellar: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:57:44] Azhelle Wade: Take care.
[00:57:44] Well there, you have it toy people. That was my interview with Anita if you are interested in connecting with Anita, just to get the links over@thetoycoach.com forward slash 2 1 6.
[00:57:57] If you love this podcast and you haven't already [00:58:00] left us a review, what are you waiting for? Your reviews are what help this podcast get discovered by other creators. Like you. And it keeps me motivated to keep coming back week after week, organizing these incredible interviews and writing solo episodes just for you.
[00:58:15] So please take a moment. You could head over to the toy coach.com. Forward slash review. And it'll take you right to where you could leave us a Google review, or you could just scroll down wherever you're listening to this podcast and look for the review section and leave us a review there. If I see a new review come in, I will be reading it on the podcast.
[00:58:35] So please, please leave us a review. Thanks.
[00:58:38] Until next week, I'll see you later. Toy people. [00:59:00]
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