Episode #175: The Impact of Toy Guns: A Tough Conversation
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In this thought-provoking episode of Making It in The Toy Industry, host Azhelle Wade and returning guest Marjorie Spitalnik dive into a sensitive but crucial topic - the impact of toy guns on children and the potential connection to real-life gun violence. Given the alarming statistics of gun violence in the U.S., they explore the responsibility of toy makers and the toy industry as a whole in shaping children's perceptions of violence and gun use.
Marjorie, founder of Little Rebels, shares compelling anecdotes from parents about the positive influence of her Plush Doll Line. Yet, this positive evidence also begs a challenging question - if toys can have such a profound positive impact on children's development, can they also contribute negatively, specifically when it comes to toy guns?
Join Azhelle and Marjorie as they navigate this delicate topic, probing the role of play in a child's understanding of reality and questioning whether the toy industry could be inadvertently normalizing the concept of shooting as fun. They discuss potential solutions and draw comparisons to a problematic toy from years ago. The goal of this episode is not to provide definitive answers, but to spark a conversation about an issue that directly affects our children.
Please note, this episode deals with sensitive topics that may not be suitable for children.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Explore the thought “What if the toys we gift our children are shaping their perceptions in ways we never imagined?”
Hear the positive impact of a plush doll line in expanding the mind of little girls and boys to role-play.
Consider that while some toys can have a positive impact on kids mental health, there are some toys that can do the opposite.
A crucial dialogue about the potential impacts of certain toys on our children's psyche and their understanding of real-world issues.
Discover what the toy industry could do to make a change in the impact of toy guns.
Learn about a vintage toy once deemed ok for sale that was later banned in over a dozen countries.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Guest Links:
Marjorie Spitalnik
Shop Little RebelsSources:
The History of Candy Cigarettes
Gun Violence Archive
ABC News Article -
[00:00:00] EP_175_Azhelle & MJ Podcast Episode: me as a toy maker and, and like, I think we need to stop and think like what we are doing is somehow helping to that situation or is making it worse the same way we do with mesh toys. So why are we so focused on creating eco-friendly toys to help with the environment or mesh toys to help with mental health or stem toys to empower girls and like kids to be better in math? Or like, why are we doing all of those things and we are not questioning ourselves? Why are we still playing with guns?
[00:00:34] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, episode number 175.
[00:00:40] Hey there, toy people, Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the Toy Industry. This is a [00:01:00] weekly podcast brought to you by the toy coach.com. Today's episode is a really sensitive topic, so I'm telling you if you normally listen to this podcast, with kiddos in the background or an earshot.
[00:01:13] I might recommend turning this one off for them and watching it later when you've got some time alone. Now, I'd been unsure if we should really address this topic on the show, but after I met with my friend Marjorie Spittle Nick, in our little podcast planning session, I knew we had to,
[00:01:31] so based on a report by ABC News, as of May 1st, 2023, more than 13,900 people have been killed in gun violence in the us.
[00:01:41] That is a rough average of a 115 deaths every day. Of those who died, 491 were teens and 85 or children. As of May 1st, there had also been 184 mass shootings in the US [00:02:00] and a mass shooting is defined as any situation where four or more people are shot, and there have been 13 K through 12 school shootings so far this year.
[00:02:10] Now, since we all work in the toy industry and it's our kids and our teens that are under attack, I think it's important that we have this conversation about what we can do if there's anything. Now, joining me on this podcast today is Marjorie Spittle Nick, the founder of Little Rebels, the Plush Doll Line.
[00:02:30] Currently available at Macy's Frost Museum, Michigan Museum, discovery, world Air Museum, museum and Flight, and over 15 specialty toy stores across the us. Now Marjorie has been a guest on this podcast before. If you wanna hear her older episodes, head over to the toy coach.com/fifteen or the toy coach.com/ 1 51.
[00:02:53] Now MJ always seems to show up when it's time to have tough conversations and she's the one that is [00:03:00] allowing me to have those conversations. And I say allowing cuz it's not easy to put yourself out there and talk about hard topics and doing it with a friend makes it all the more better. So Marjorie, welcome to the show and thank you for being willing to have this talk with me today.
[00:03:18] Marjorie Spitalnik: Thank you for having me. I love being in this show, so every time you actually invite me in, for me it's kind of like, yay, I'm gonna be podcast again. It's kinda like a little win and Yeah, it is a hard topic. I agree with you. But also I think it's our responsibility as toy makers to address this cuz it's affecting, as you said at first, it's affecting our kids.
[00:03:45] So what can we do as toy makers if there's something we can do actually to just open the conversation. I know this may, there might be people that are gonna get really mad at us. [00:04:00] I'm aware of that. Yeah. I am up to it. Like I, honestly, I think this is a tough topic, but it needs to be talked about.
[00:04:09] So yeah, if they get mad, I'm so sorry in advance, but yeah, we need to do it. We're sorry.
[00:04:15] I don't want anyone listening to the podcast to feel that we are attacking their freedom. That's not what this is about. I wanna like let that crystal clear from the beginning of the episode so nobody get offended to it. We are just trying to open up the conversation to Estoy makers. Is there anything that we can do to help reduce the death, especially between kids and teens, like all that, of course. But like teens and kids are our audience. So that I think it affects us directly. And the other thing that I'm gonna say before going in is like, I get the fun on the guns. I used [00:05:00] to play with my daughter like battles, then painful, then laser tags. We used to be like one of my favorite things to do. Yeah. So it's kinda hard for me to, to actually talk about this and not feel some irony in what I'm talking. But like when I try to sit down and really think like, what's the real impact that toys have in kids, then that's when the conversation starts.
[00:05:30] Cause there's a lot of studies out there that shows that the way kids play when they're kids and, and what they choose to play with have a huge impact on their careers. For example, when they grow up, let's say dogs, why do I have little rebels? Why did I create little rebels? Because I'm trying to empower girls.
[00:05:51] To become engineers mathematicians, scientists, whatever they wanna be, no matter their gender. Mm-hmm. And [00:06:00] it's like scientific fact that the way they play and the toys that they used to play as kids have a positive impact when they grow up. So with that in mind, if they have a positive impact, they can also have a negative impact.
[00:06:17] It's kind of, it, it kind of goes both ways, right? It's, it's not just, oh yeah, it works positive because it's convenient for me and then we leave the negative out of it. Cause it's not good for the business. Like this is the ugly truth of this, but it's how it is. And I do get that some guns are really fun, like bubble guns or water guns or like, they are not created to harm anyone but kids at very young age.
[00:06:48] Might lose the perception of what's right or wrong
[00:06:52] Azhelle Wade: let's back up a little bit. I wanna, I wanna first talk about like the impact of general toys on kids.
[00:06:59] [00:07:00] So for your products specifically, I'd love an example since I have you here of maybe reviews you've gotten from parents or messages you've gotten from kids after they played with your products saying, oh my gosh, your product taught my daughter about Amelia Earhart. She'd never heard of her before and now she wants to be a pilot.
[00:07:19] Has that ever happened?
[00:07:20] Yeah.
[00:07:20] Marjorie Spitalnik: Yeah, that actually I have a bunch of stories and I, that's one of my favorite, no, that's one of my favorite parts of this business. We do get like a bunch of stories of parents that reach out to me and then for example, you mentioned Amelia. There was one mom that sent me a picture of her daughter sitting inside of a car box that she created as an airplane, playing with her, Amelia, saying that she was gonna be a pilot when she grew up. And then another mom that did the same thing with a kid a little girl as well, that she put chairs together and she literally built a plane in the living room, like with the [00:08:00] chairs.
[00:08:00] Azhelle Wade: Oh.
[00:08:01] Marjorie Spitalnik: And she was sitting that, that was amazing. I need to find that. And posted. So she had like the entire row of the plane passengers and she was the pilot.
[00:08:12] Azhelle Wade: So cute. Cute.
[00:08:16] Marjorie Spitalnik: And then, and the same way that we are inspiring girls and like sharing those stories. Boys also, like I have a lot of moms that comes to me and say, Hey, thanks to your dolls, my boys, Are now treating their sisters differently.
[00:08:32] Azhelle Wade: Oh, interesting.
[00:08:33] Marjorie Spitalnik: I have two cases. One is like, he's very small. He, I think he's around three or four now, I don't remember. But it's like whenever it was diaper changing time, he will get his Amelia and he will literally put like the cream. And I like, it was funny cuz she wrote me and she was like, the quality of your pluses is insane. And I was like, oh, thank you. And she was No, no, no. You have no idea how many times did I had to wash it [00:09:00] already. Cause my little boy, every time I go and do the diaper change on the baby, he brings Amelia and he changes her diaper as well.
[00:09:10] Azhelle Wade: Oh wow. So the ways are using her for nurturing.
[00:09:12] Marjorie Spitalnik: So it's clearly impacting in many, many ways. And then There were two siblings that I met in Brazil, and I gave them one Malala and one Mary Curri. And then a few months later, the dad wrote to me to thank me. And he said like, if it was not by your dolls, my kids will never hear about this women. And now all they talk about, like, they go to school and they share with the friends how brave Malala was. Because even though she was shot ironically she stood up and so they, they learn about courage and resilience and speaking up. So nowadays when they're don't agree with something or they see somebody like being bullied, [00:10:00] they will speak up and that's a direct consequence of your doll. I was like, wow. Like I know that my dolls have an impact, that's why I'm doing them. Right? So like I'm trying to empower the kids. But actually hearing that and like getting the feedback from directly from the parents telling you like, this is the impact is now. It's not on the future only, it's like literally happening.
[00:10:23] We can see it happening on a daily basis. Yeah. So yes, toys do have an impact for sure.
[00:10:29] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And we often see these posts, we were talking on LinkedIn, where people are talking about the importance of stem toys and mesh toys, stem toys to help kids build their knowledge of like math and science and then mesh toys to help kids deal with their social emotional health.
[00:10:46] And everyone wants to say like, toys can have such a positive impact on kids, which is great. And nobody's talking about how toys could also have a negative impact on kids, so,
[00:10:58] Marjorie Spitalnik: exactly.
[00:10:59] Azhelle Wade: I [00:11:00] wanna go to something that you said where you brought up a really interesting thought and that was, we are introducing toy guns in the form of bubble guns, in the form of Nerf guns. Two kids at such a young age, and then after they're introduced to this gun that they're allowed to shoot their friends with and their friends are okay and they're pretending to get hurt. They go through life and life is difficult and challenging and we don't know what challenges they'll have. We don't know what emotional distress they'll go through and they go through that after being given this toy gun. And how do we know where that lands in their psyche? If they have a difficult life, if they have a difficult upbringing. And I thought that was a really interesting observation. Can you talk more to that?
[00:11:50] Marjorie Spitalnik: Yes, I was actually, I had this conversation yesterday also. And it's like the fact that they're playing with gun makes them [00:12:00] automatically mass shooters. No, definitely not. That's not what I'm saying. But if a kid goes through a lot of bullying or they're like being mistreated or they'll feel an injustice or like, life has been really, really hard on them and they have a very easy access to guns and they are used to use guns cause they're playing with their video games so they know how it works or they're playing with their toys. So they know that if they get a gun, like they can go on and shoot everybody with no consequences because it's a game. I don't know. I honestly don't know, but I think that at some point in their psyche, as you're saying, they lose the sense of what's right and wrong or even what's real. Some of them.
[00:12:54] Exactly. Yeah. Some of them might be so affected by what happened to [00:13:00] them that they really don't like. I don't know. I'm trying to think about those mass shooters in schools particularly, most of them were bullied kids. They were really angry and they entered to like revenge their bullies and end up killing innocent people that had nothing to do with it.
[00:13:22] But why is that? Because their perception, their reality, like they lose sense of reality and perception. I'm not saying again, the fault is the toys. I'm just saying that the toy at some point makes shooting fun when it should not be fun. Oof. Like it shouldn't be. Fun to kill your friend. Yeah. Like, I don't know.
[00:13:46] I heard like one of my best friends, she's a doctor and a few stories that she brought to me throughout the years was, you have no idea how many kids die or get hurt by accident because parents have [00:14:00] guns in their houses and they're playing, or they think they're playing, so when they should, thinking nothing's gonna happen and they're just gonna pretend to be like, oh yeah, I'm dead, and blah. And then they will come back to life. Yeah. Then tragedy happens.
[00:14:15] It's not like there's their intention. They cannot distinguish what is play from what is reality. Yeah. So, yeah, I just think that. There's a responsibility in us as Toymakers to like ask that question. Like, are are we making shooting somebody fun? Shouldn't be. Yes. If that's what we're doing, we're grow.
[00:14:38] Azhelle Wade: Right? That's like the main focus. Like, are we making guns too fun? You said that when we first had our conversation. Why are we making guns look like so much fun? They're so colorful. It's, it's interesting because toy guns are colorful so that, you know, they're not real guns. Right? But when we look at that little kid that had a toy gun and then [00:15:00] actually got shot it's like obviously that doesn't make enough of a difference.
[00:15:03] And then, yeah, the gun is still a gun and it's still giving that idea that it's fun. And if we, if we believe that a doctor set toy for a kid can inspire them to be a doctor, why is it so hard to draw this line of. A gun toy can inspire a kid to go shoot things they shouldn't be shooting. Like why is it so hard to draw that?
[00:15:28] So say somebody once is, is clear and this message is getting to them and they're like, oof, you're right. I've never thought about it that way. Maybe our guns are influencing kids at too young of an age. Maybe we need to talk about should there be an age limit?
[00:15:42] There are certain products out in the world that you're not allowed to buy at a certain age. Should there be an age limit to play guns?
[00:15:50] Marjorie Spitalnik: Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Right. Honestly, I like, I don't have the solution. Right. And we are not here to bring a solution or to say like, this is right and this is wrong. We are [00:16:00] just,
[00:16:01] Azhelle Wade: Starting conversation,
[00:16:02] Marjorie Spitalnik: like debating something that really bother us and we are trying to look for solutions, but between all of us, maybe setting a minimum age is a way to go.
[00:16:15] Maybe instead of like, I don't know, having it gun shaped, we can change the shape. I don't know. There's a bunch of toy designers, super creative outs. Can we make bubbles that don't come out from a gun? Right. Why does it have to be a bubble gun? Like, why does it have to be shaped as a gun? Maybe it doesn't have to. Like, maybe it doesn't have to be shaped as a gun. It could be, I don't know, like. I, I'm, I'm really bad at this. Like a wristband. It could be a wristband with like discs that fly out Exactly right.
[00:16:52] Or like a ring that you do like this and Yeah. All the bubbles come out. I like, I don't know. That [00:17:00] actually sounds very cool. The sounds cool. But the fact that our first thought is to make it a gun is maybe the problem. And maybe we're not taking enough responsibility as an industry for the fact that we are introducing these to kids at such a young age and making it too comfortable and making it too, just making it too comfortable.
[00:17:19] It's fine if they wanna grow up and they wanna learn, go to a shooting range, and they wanna learn how to shoot, that's their prerogative. But when they're young, are we as an industry, that's on us, right? It's out. It's on us.
[00:17:30] Azhelle Wade: There's something to be said about people who are your elders guiding you. So that you can hold off on experiencing things that might be too much for your mind to handle early on so that you could experience them later and decide when you're like brain is fully formed, whether or not this is something you wanna engage in and bring into your life, and a responsibility you wanna take on.
[00:17:55] Marjorie Spitalnik: I do know that they have a legal minimum wage to buy gun that I [00:18:00] knew. What, what I'm thinking is, should just like as you asked first, should we make a minimum age to toy guns as well? Like, and we were talking on our. Prior to this podcast, like there are stores and actually toy companies that do not work with toy guns.
[00:18:22] Right. There's a reason why they don't. Right? Right. And so, I mean, why They don't, why, why don't they like, what, what's stopping them from selling? Cuz they're losing a lot of like a big portion of the market refraining to selling toy guns. But there's a reason why they are not and that's because it's aligned with their mission or their concept of what a toy can do or should do.
[00:18:49] And I remember like the reason why we started this podcast actually was a post on LinkedIn that was Right. Thank the toy industry for the fidgeting toys [00:19:00] creations to help the victims of mass shooting cope with the trauma that they had. Mm-hmm. And I was like, okay. Yes. I love that we have that as a tool to help them cope.
[00:19:12] But we shouldn't have them at, at all at the beginning. Like it sh this shouldn't be a problem. Like, kids should not have been shot at their schools. Like they should be safe at schools or going into a movie, or going into a concert, or like having fun with friends. Yeah. It's insane that you can, like, I don't know.
[00:19:34] So yeah, I'm grateful that we have toys that help them cope, but maybe we should rethink the way that we are providing toy guns, toys to, to our kids. And the access, maybe limiting the age access, maybe looking for the same mechanic. Yeah. Different shape products so that you're not, I mean, I get the fun behind it, as I was [00:20:00] saying in the be at the beginning of this episode, like, I'm, I really have a lot of fun.
[00:20:03] So like, this is a hard topic for me to talk about it, but I'm 40, right? Like, and the truth is, I did not start playing with these kind of things until I was like a teenager. Maybe I don't remember having guns toys around me when I was growing up as a little girl. I do remember that. Then when, yeah, I was maybe 15, 16, 0 16 my friends had like the water guns and we start on summer playing with water guns and doing water battles and stuff like that, and then came paintball and laser tags.
[00:20:38] But I was like older. I was not five, I was not four, I was not six. Like I was more or less already shaped. I'm not like, I'm still shaping my mind, but like, yeah, at least I can distinguish between reality and fantasy and what's like, I think that's the main issue. Like at what age [00:21:00] maybe we should get in touch with a doctor, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a professional that.
[00:21:07] So hear me out. This is the age where the psyches of the kid can distinguish between reality and fantasy. And that's the minimum age to play with a toy gun. That is a very good idea. Cause theyll understand what's reality and whatnot. Cause like kids at very young age, right? They have imaginary friends.
[00:21:29] Yeah. And they're a hundred percent convinced that their friends are real. Right. And they will set up a plate for them at the table and they will talk to them and they will interact with them. And for them, that imaginary situation, it's real. And so is shooting a friend. Right. And if on top of it, it's fun.
[00:21:51] Like, it's just like, that's just not, why would, why would we, why would we feed into that when it's so easy? Yes. I [00:22:00] mean, so easy. I know there, there's probably millions of doll. I, I wish we could define the figures, like how much money is spent on toy guns, but maybe there's a new way to approach that and just change the design of it.
[00:22:10] Like we're saying it's not gonna be easy, but change never is. It doesn't mean that we don't need to do it. I mean, this is an uncomfortable conversation to have. Yeah, yeah. But somebody has started and we like, we need to start talking about this. And we need to start seeing the impact. And again, we cannot be so Hypocrites.
[00:22:35] Hypocrites. How does it hypocritical? Hypo girl. Thank you. I'm sorry. To, to come out with a very strong speech about how mesh toys, helping mental health and STEM toys, helping, developing skills and like all the positive adages and like dolphin nurturing, nurturing and yeah. [00:23:00] Like, and Legos helping building.
[00:23:02] And, but, but we look at toy guns and we're like, Literally developing like the stress and finesse and like your skills, like why you go to a kindergarten like Montessori for example, methodology is all through play. Why? There's a reason why it's all through play. It's because you learn better through play.
[00:23:23] Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's kind of scary when you, you think about it, it's scary. It's scary to think because like water guns are different. There are other guns that like hurt when you hurt somebody. Water guns, at very least you're not hurting somebody. But there are some toy guns I've played with that.
[00:23:40] Like when you hit the other person, it hurts them a little bit and it's just this like subtle psychological shift that you have to do to like have fun while hurting your friend. And it's like a little hurt. Yes, exactly. It's a little, it's a little thing, but it's like, yeah. Yeah. You are having [00:24:00] fun, hurting other people.
[00:24:01] Like that's the entire goal of the game. Yeah. It's so, like, nobody stopped to think about this, but when you really stop to think about this, like in code mm-hmm. Leave all your, I don't know, beliefs behind for a second. Right. And just like go through the most raw thought that you can have about the dynamics of valor, for example.
[00:24:25] Wait, I just remember something that most people must haven't forgotten, but if you are born in the eighties, like I was what? We used to have chocolate cigarettes. Oh yes, I remember. Yes. Hold on. And it was the best thing ever. And you were super cool And we used to play that. We were smoking our chocolates.
[00:24:50] Oh my gosh. And heads up, like I was a smoker a lot ago. Like I smoked during a lot of [00:25:00] years of my life. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm not saying blame on the chocolates, but like, i, I spent my entire childhood playing to be a smoker and I grew up to be a smoker.
[00:25:13] We used to play that. It was cool to be out there smoking. And actually, I think that it used to have toys that were cigarettes as well.
[00:25:22] Wow. And like what happened to that? Obviously at some point someone said, this is not okay cause we're just, this is wrong. Exactly. We cannot keep doing this. At some point, and I don't know when they disappeared, but I remember that they disappeared from the market eventually. I found this article about, about those candy cigarettes and it says, quote, this is a true treats candy.com.
[00:25:49] Said quote, while many anti candy activists cited the artificial or otherwise unsavory ingredients in candy, their objection to candy cigarettes was different. [00:26:00] They wouldn't kill you exactly, but they would ruin your life. One of them, Reverend James E. Smith, declared in 1902 that these candies may look harmless, but they are leading the minds of our boys toward temptation, and they are enticing our children to become drunks and cigarette fiends.
[00:26:16] The reverend was far alone from alone in his c The reverend was far from alone in his crusade. There were o there are other people who were in 1906 fighting against this. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I I, I remember, like I used to work in advertising for a long time and whenever they, like there was a, a moment in advertising that you needed to be very careful with.
[00:26:48] Drinking products. Mm-hmm. Like whenever like a brand of liquor came in and cigarettes, cuz like Mobo, when they had like that cowboy coming in [00:27:00] Right. And smoking, he made it look cool. And so that entire generation, which is my generation, we grew up thinking smoking was the coolest thing ever. And our kids wanted to smoke.
[00:27:14] And then there was 9 0 2 1 oh the TV show where Dylan used to smoke and Dylan was the hardy one. And so everybody wanted to be like Dylan and then like, I don't know, Greece, there's so many examples on how young minds are influenced by what they see and why they have access to
[00:27:36] Apparently candy cigarettes were indeed banned in the US in 2009. Under the FDA's Family Smoking Prevention and Control Act. The debate behind the FDA's the debate behind the FDA's decision was based on studies showing that candy cigarettes led to cigarette smoking. [00:28:00] Interesting.
[00:28:01] I'm not saying it's a hundred percent the chocolate cigarettes fault, but I grew up playing that I was a smoker and I little became a smoker. So yeah. That has to be some influence in, in somebody's psych is eventually.
[00:28:16] So I, I'm looking on Wikipedia now. So, so I think the US ban was peeled back a little bit but it's Ban Candy cigarettes banned in Australia.
[00:28:25] Belgium, Brazil Chile, Finland, Ireland, Kuwait, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Thailand, Turkey, United, Arab e Emirates United Kingdom. Then the, there are some caveats because Canada has federal law prohibits candy cigarette branding that resembles real cigarette branding.
[00:28:53] And then the United States says that candy can't be labeled as cigarettes.
[00:28:57] So, interesting. [00:29:00] Huh? Yeah, so I don't like, I don't know, I just feel it's a weird, tough conversation to have. Yeah. And but like, it's not that we are saying top manufacturing tos, it's just let's rethink the impact that we are having. Right. By creating those tools. Yes. Let's stop and rethink if should we address it to a specific age range?
[00:29:36] Yeah. Yes. Should we shape them differently? Should we change the dynamic? Should we just put a warning sign that says like, not advice for child's under Yes. Certain age. Like this may be a trigger, I don't know, trigger warnings before the com. I don't, I honestly, I don't have the answer, but [00:30:00] I do know we should think about it at some point. And again, I'm, we're not saying, and for me, it's super important that this is crystal clear. We're not questioning the rights to have guns. Hmm. We're not questioning the rights to have toy guns to produce.
[00:30:16] Like, we're not going against our peers in the industry that are manufacturing or selling them. Like this is important for you to understand and to, to like make sure that this is super clear.
[00:30:27] I'm am a mom. I live in America. Consider a gazillion times to move to the US And honestly, one of the things that always kept me from moving mm-hmm.
[00:30:36] It's the guns. Because like, I'm scared to send my daughter into school and Sheena would never come back and people tells me, oh, you get used to it like they do. How is this called? Like, drills. And I was like, what? I don't want my daughter, like going into a shooting drill in school like that. That cannot be normal. Like that, that, that horr me. Yeah. And then maybe you're [00:31:00] gonna say, oh, you're too naive. Well, Where I live, we do not have drills for mass shootings in schools. Mm-hmm. I'm not saying like a tragedy cannot happen. Like couple of friends of my daughter were magged the other day on the street. Of course those things will happen. Like, I'm not that naive. What I'm saying is like what we do as toy makers can have a positive impact on reducing those mass shootings somehow. That's my question. It's like I think we need to sit down, stop and think like what I'm, what I'm doing as a toy maker, is it making it better or worse?
[00:31:39] Am I improving the situation or am I helping escalating it? And I'm only bringing this to attention because how many should mass shootings you said there were like, we are may. And it's over a hundred mass shootings already. Yeah. May. That's insane.
[00:31:54] We are not questioning what you are doing with your business. We're not attacking anyone. We are [00:32:00] not trying to we're not criticizing our peers businesses. We're not messing with the people that are making guns. Like, again, I'm one that have a lot of fun playing with bubble guns and all those kind of things. So it's, it's not that, don't get me wrong, it's just that this problem, it's increasing. And
[00:32:23] EP_175_Azhelle & MJ Podcast Episode: me as a toy maker and, and like, I think we need to stop and think like what we are doing is somehow helping to that situation or is making it worse the same way we do with mesh toys. So why are we so focused on creating eco-friendly toys to help with the environment or mesh toys to help with mental health or stem toys to empower girls and like kids to be better in math? Or like, why are we doing all of those things and we are not questioning ourselves? Why are we still playing with guns?
[00:32:58] Azhelle Wade: Do you have any suggestions for somebody's, [00:33:00] first step for what they could do if they want to reevaluate how their company might be influencing kids' minds with gunplay?
[00:33:12] Marjorie Spitalnik: I, I haven't idea. I would That's a, that, that's actually a good idea. Yeah. I mean, I,
[00:33:19] Azhelle Wade: from a designer perspective, I would say look at your assortment and, and count how many, how many gun shaped or looking products you have. Figure out the revenue of those products so that you understand the financial risk to making any adjustments to them. And then I would do a design exercise. To redesign those. Gun toys into a different shape so that you could still have the play but not have the connection to like a gun. That would be the first thing I would think. And see how buyers respond to respond to it. If you pitch them this new weird shape, are they gonna be like, why is this just not a gun? Or are they gonna say, [00:34:00] oh, thank goodness we were waiting for somebody to refresh this line. So it doesn't have to align with all the horror that's going on in the US right now?
[00:34:10] Marjorie Spitalnik: You know what I thi I what this, most likely the answer they will get is, why are you not bringing me a gun? Cause that's what, no, you don't know. You don't know? No, I dunno. Of course. I don't know. Yeah. But I mean like, I think the exercise needs to be done. Yeah, for sure. And I feel it's like, A responsibility. Like, I mean, and you might say, yeah, we're gonna lose a lot of money, but the same way that big companies like Mattel are investing ton of monies of making Barbies that showcase all the colors of the humanity
[00:34:58] Azhelle Wade: and sizes.
[00:34:59] Yeah. [00:35:00] That wasn't like a huge financial win right away.
[00:35:03] Marjorie Spitalnik: They just launched like a new down syndrome line Barbie. Yes. And they have like, so, and that was a huge investment for them. Mm-hmm. And that was also a huge change of mentality because they, they like, even though Barbie. Claim was always you can be everything. Right. Barbies was, you can be everything. Even though, that was the claim, like the, the iconic Barbie that we all grew up to was the blonde Barbie. Perfect. Shaped like even though she was dressed up as flight attendant, she was still perfect, like physically and they were all the same.
[00:35:43] Yeah. And then Mattel at some point said, wait, no, we're, we do not all look the same. Yeah. We do not all have the same style. We do not have all the same sexual orientation. We do not all share the same genes. And they decided to invest a ton of money [00:36:00] to make that shape. There's a reason why they did that.
[00:36:04] Mm-hmm. And it's because they are looking around the world they're living in and realizing that today's society is not the same as when Barbie was launched. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my advice would be maybe sit down just like Mattel and the kudos like to Mattel on doing that and do the exercise to see if, like, I'm not saying get rid of all your gun toys, but what if you launch as a test a toy that does exactly the same thing, but it's not shape as a gun.
[00:36:39] Love it. Just test. Yeah. And see what happens. And if that's a hit, then replace it and remove the gun shape one. Yeah. I'm not saying go and lose all your inventory and lose all your money, but like, That's not what I'm saying. Cause they're Make an effort. Make an effort toward the change. Exactly. [00:37:00] Go a little bit above and beyond the regular, like do your part if you can, and I know you can, like we're constantly having this pitch competitions asking for inventors to come up with ideas.
[00:37:12] Put that in your list, in your wishlist. Yeah. Oh yes. When you're offering vendors to come up with ideas or you go to like Otis Design School and you have I don't know, like ask them to come up with new ideas on how can you use the same dynamic shaped differently. I'm sure there's gonna come a bunch of Kool-Aid, like I just threw you the, the, the ring one ring.
[00:37:37] Use your wishlist for the good when you're looking for new products. Like when you're asking inventors to come up with new ideas, put that in your wishlist and say, Hey, help us reshape and redefine the gun word.
[00:37:52] How would you play it? How would you use it? How you do, I don't know. That's,
[00:37:57] Azhelle Wade: and it has the added benefit of like, this [00:38:00] is a great initiative that is also marketing gold, being that company that does that. It's marketing gold and it's good for, it's good for the kids that we serve and we create products for.
[00:38:11] So yes. Well, MJ, thank you so much for spending the time with me today. I really appreciate you being on the podcast. If anybody wants to learn more about the resources that we were citing while we were talking, head over to the toy coach.com/ 1 75 and I'll put the links there.
[00:38:28] I'll also put the links to contact MJ if you wanna talk with her about her line and become one of the many stores carrying it, or if you just wanna talk more about this topic.
[00:38:39] Marjorie Spitalnik: Do not attack us though.
[00:38:40] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, do not attack us. We're just, we're just starting conversation.
[00:38:45] As always, thank you so much for being here with me today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.
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