Episode #132: This Gay-Owned Game Company Started As A Side Hustle with Greg Watson
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Your own life is the best inspiration for your game and toy ideas. While it can be from something like your educational background or profession, it doesn’t have to be anything complicated. Just think of the best times with your friends and family and you might come up with an idea. Today’s podcast guest did just that.
Today’s guest is Greg Watson. Greg has actually been on the podcast before! In episode 72 you heard him talking about working with a distributor to get your toy or game into retail. Back then he was the national accounts manager for PSi, aka Publisher Services, Inc. However, now he has struck out on his own with an idea that was inspired by his best memories of playing card games with friends and family. He and his husband created a new card game called Poof, which is available on Amazon.
In this episode, you’ll learn all about Greg’s inspiration for the game, and how he put his own experience into it. You’ll also learn what game mechanics are and why they are important, how Greg tested his game in the middle of a pandemic, and what to consider for packaging differences between online sales versus retail shelf space. You’ll also learn about Greg’s pricing strategy for this game as well as some future predictions for the toy industry.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Find out how Greg and his husband came up with their game idea based on personal experiences. [00:02:59]
Learn a great definition of game mechanics, with examples. [00:05:50]
Find out how playtesting can give you other ideas for game play and game mechanics [00:11:51]
Learn about the importance of picking out the right packaging elements [00:18:02]
Find out about packaging differences between online and retail [00:20:56]
Learn about pricing strategy for games [00:22:25]
Find out about features of a “boutique” game that might allow for a higher price [00:25:23]
Learn about the one feature Greg insisted on keeping because it made the game really pop, even though it made manufacturing costs [00:26:40]
Learn how inflation might affect the toy and game industry. [00:29:35]
Find out one marketing strategy to put a spin on inflation [00:31:17]
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Shop POOF The Game by clicking here.
Follow POOF The Game on Instagram here.
Check out the toys that blew Greg’s mind as a kid:
Hot Wheels and Barbie
Listener Spotlight – Check out Sarah's Silks by clicking here.
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 132. Hey, there toy people, Azhelle Wade here. And welcome back to another episode of the toy coach podcast, making it in the toy industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by the toy coach.com. Today's guest is named Greg Watson. Greg and his husband Jake are the creators of poof the game. Poof, the game is a casual card game designed for friends and family alike. Since launching in October of 2021, the couple and the game have been featured in the New York times and on local Washington DC news, where the couple is based. I'm excited to have Greg back on the show because he was on the show once upon a time when he worked in the toy industry. But now he's just making moves as a toy entrepreneur, Greg, welcome to this show.
[00:01:03] Greg Watson: Hi, thanks for having me.
[00:01:05] Azhelle Wade: So enthusiastic.
[00:01:07] Greg Watson: I'm back. I'm back.
[00:01:07] Azhelle Wade: It's like what? I'm here. She called and I said, yes, no, I'm glad you're here. I would love to know more about poop the game. Last time I talked to you, actually, we talked a little bit on Instagram live, but the podcast interview is such a more casual lax environment where we're not trying to like sell. So let's get to know more about you and poof the game. So, first of all, who are you for those that didn't listen to your first episode on the toy coach podcast.
[00:01:36] Greg Watson: Yeah. So hi everyone. Like she said, my name is Greg Watson alongside my husband. We are the creators of poof the game. I, my background is all in corporate retail and selling to retailers. So if you heard my last episode here on the podcast, I was talking about working in retail. And being successful at retail, working with the distributor. Because that's what I used to do. I have since moved on to other categories of product. But still keeping close with the, the toying game space, you know, both through, you know, our own personal entrepreneurial venture with proof the game, as well as you know, it's always been a personal passion of mine board gaming. That is so, yeah.
[00:02:19] Azhelle Wade: Is poof the game, the first game you ever came up with?
[00:02:23] Greg Watson: Yeah. First and, you know, I don't wanna say only, but it wasn't something that was on the bucket list. Like I never be, I'm not an entrepreneur type, quite frankly. I like the consistency of it. Like it's fun to do as a side hustle, but I don't know if full-time entrepreneur is on my, on my list of things, but yes, first game that I've ever created. And it was really just something, you know, it. The opportunity presented itself. Like we had the idea I had the background, so, you know, stars aligned. It's been a really fun experience. Yeah. But you know, I, I'm also pretty risk averse. So taking my time with, with the, the first baby and making sure to do it right before I start, you know, trying to make anything more from it.
[00:03:10] Azhelle Wade: Well, tell us a little bit about your toy story or rather your game story. How did you guys come up with the idea?
[00:03:17] Greg Watson: Yeah. So it all started in December of 2020, I suppose. It was then. So we were spending the holidays at a cabin in North Carolina with my parents, you know, it was during COVID, so still, you know, limited family time. But we growing up. My family is huge into gaming. You know, we were not a video gamer, a TV family, our together time was, you know, playing monopoly or risk and, you know, all of those family classics that. Simultaneously destroy families because of the arguments. We were no exception. We're also originally from the Midwest. So card games were huge for us. So like our family get togethers have always been centered around playing yur as a family. I don't what that is. I, I was gonna say yur is a very like Ohio, Michigan Indiana thing.
[00:04:12] So if I meet someone who's not from one of those three states that knows how to play it, I'm always impressed. So, yeah, we were just sitting around playing cards, you know, playing, yur playing some, you know, more advanced board games. And then we were actually playing a, a game that my sister had introduced my parents to. And the idea just kind of clicked my husband, Jake, and I. Just kinda looked at each other and were like, wait, like, I kind of like this idea, but like it needs some tweaks. It needs some more rules. Cuz a lot of those casual card games that you play with your family are just played with a deck of cards and you know, every house has their own rules, you know, there's. Usually a flaw with whether it's, you know, a scoring mechanism or a lack of one, you know, things like that.
[00:04:57] We just kind of said to each other, we're like, wait, like, I think we're like we could make something here. So proof the game is basically just an a combination of some of our favorite mechanisms or mechanics from different games. We've played all put together in a one. You know, we, while we love UNO in phase 10, They get a little monotonous in our opinion you know, I like something that's a little more strategic, you know, with those it's really just like, can you play. Yes or no, and that's kind of the game. There's a, just a little more thought involved with poof, but it's still super accessible. So like, it can be still played with that same demographic, as long as you can count, you can play. But we just thought there was a, an opportunity for kind of a new family classic. So, yeah.
[00:05:48] Azhelle Wade: I would love to roll back and ask you to describe what a game mechanic is. Cuz I very often tell people with games, it's more about the mechanics. If you're gonna invent something that it's about those mechanics of the game, the way that you play to win. So how would you define a game mechanic and maybe give an example of one.
[00:06:07] Greg Watson: Yeah. So a game mechanic. I mean, there are literally hundreds of them. So like if you've ever I'm guessing most people have not, but go to board game geek.com. I was gonna say if you've ever been to board game geek.com, but I know the default there is probably you haven't. Yeah. But type in monopoly type in QAN, whatever it is, go there. And you'll see a whole section that describes every mechanic in it. A mechanic is just a fancy way of saying what's the base rule or way that you play. So like dice rolling. That that is a mechanic. I'll stick on the dice theme. So I'm gonna describe like Yachty, for example. Okay. Yachty is what the industry would call a role and right game in that it, the mechanic as you roll.
[00:06:54] And then you write some just keeping scores. So that's kind of high level or like another very popular one, especially in kind of more accessible games is resource collection where like you're trying. So if you've ever played settlers of QAN obviously has gotten very popular over the past, you know? Five 10 years. It's been out for decades, but very hot as of late, that's a resource collection game where you're also rolling the dice. So that's one of the mechanics, but then you're collecting, you know, whether it's your wheat or your sheep, whatever it is, you're collecting it. So that's what a mechanic is. And I think to your point about when you're designing a game.
[00:07:32] It's about mechanics. Are interesting and exciting, you know, you don't want it to be 100% luck based. Yeah. Where, you know, that's most dice rolling games where that's, you know, at their core. I mean, everyone does this rolling. The dice is random. Yeah. Perfectly. So. Yeah. So you know, things like that you know, you have to think about how do you combine those things so that most people, especially, you know, for us, when we were thinking about. What sort of game we wanted poof, to turn into, we wanted to it's it's cards. So it's still luck based, but there is thinking, and there's, you know, more to it than just can you play or not?
[00:08:12] Azhelle Wade: Well, I'd like to like talk about when you came up with the idea for poof and you combined all these other game mechanics, you designed a new game. How did you really. Test without any bias to make sure you really had a game that was good. And it wasn't just one that you and your husband and your mom and your dad were like, oh, this is the best game. What did you guys do to do that?
[00:08:34] Greg Watson: Yeah, I mean, play testing is super important and obviously in a COVID environment, it's a lot more challenging. You know, there are all sorts of organizations out there. Kind of provide a forum for play testing. So a very popular one is a, is a group called break my game. Which is exactly what it sounds like. You know, it sounds kind of aggressive, but like the idea is that these people, you go to these, meet up groups and you, they play your game and. If they tell you what they don't like or what needs to get fixed, it's up to you. You're the creative of your own game. So if you're like, no, I like that about my game. That's great. So obviously during COVID, none of that was happening. There were a lot of opportu, there are still a lot of opportunities for, you know, digital play testing.
[00:09:18] But quite frankly, we made this game for our friends and family. Like we. You know, it's great that it's, you know, achieving moderate success. You know, I'm not gonna oversell our ourselves here. You know, I love seeing other people enjoy the game, but at the end of the day it was, you know, We designed it for the types of gamers that we are the types of gamers that, you know, our families are, the things we're doing when we're with friends. Mm-hmm so we, we did a lot, you know, obviously we started this over Christmas and literally like in the car on the way back. I got Sr LLC and was, you know, starting to work through things. So like, it was a very, I'm a very spur of the moment person. So like when.
[00:10:03] Azhelle Wade: Me too, I've done the same thing, I literally started a trademark in the car once I was like, oh, goodness.
[00:10:09] Greg Watson: Yeah. Yeah. Like when I decide I'm gonna do something. I have to do it then and there, or else I'm not doing it. But yeah, so once we got back to DC, we, you know, had a few game nights, you know, with small groups, it was actually kind of perfect, cuz obviously you're not doing like big group settings, but you know, have a few people over to, you know, our apartment to play the game. You know, it's something where, you know, we typed up our instructions and we basically said. Hey, we're not gonna teach you, like read these instructions and try to start playing. We'll play with you. And obviously we're gonna tell you if.
[00:10:48] You're interpreting something incorrectly, but also that's like the easiest, the easiest way to know if people can learn how to play your game is just like watching them try to process the instructions. Yeah. And especially for a game, even like our game, like I said, if you can count, you can play the game. It's not complex. Yeah. But that was the single most difficult part of, of this entire process. What was, was writing the instructions. In a way that people could understand. So like when we were play testing, honestly, like. We know the game is good. Like , we feel pretty confident about that.
[00:11:27] But it, especially for a stranger, like, you know, Jake and I, aren't gonna be there every time someone is playing the game. Right. So like, it's great that we can teach it in. I've got my, you know, little elevator pitch down to about three minutes, but. You know, that's not always gonna be an option. Yeah. So that was the most important part for us in play testing is making sure that those instructions were written in a way that people could understand. And then kind of simultaneously is, you know, sometimes the way people interpreted the rules, we were actually like, wait, I think I like that better than like what maybe we had in our head.
[00:12:06] Azhelle Wade: Do you have an example of a thing that happened with in your game?
[00:12:08] Greg Watson: I mean, even so not so much with the current version we're already kind of working on, like, what could us. Second iteration of it. Now that it's, you know, been out in the public and it's been played by way more people than, you know, probably the 30 or so we play tested with. Right. But like, you know, some of the ideas people have had for kind of add, some people are more competitive than others. The game itself is quite individual. You're playing against people and you're trying to win, but like, it's not a game where. You're probably gonna get super far trying to mess other people up. So as we were playing it with people you know, we got a lot of feedback, one friend in particular who is very competitive probably to a fault.
[00:12:53] Oh, what name means, but if anyone's listening, they and knows him. They know who I'm talking about. But you know, he had some ideas about like, okay, so. What if, when some someone uses a poof card, which the whole goal of the game is you're getting rid of the cards in the center of the table by using the magic of the poof, which, you know, they're shiny poof cards. If you look on our Instagram or website, you'll see 'em. But one of his ideas was that rather than when you poof the pile in the center of the table, generally, they would just go to the side. As, you know, going to the discard pile no longer get, come into play. He would like that it one that happens.
[00:13:32] You get to assign someone to, oh yeah. Take all those into your hand. Which, you know, it's fun. Like it's not necessarily like how I enjoy playing games. Like I I'm competitive, but like, I don't really like, you know, fighting quote unquote with people. Yeah. I wanna beat you, but not because I did something. To you, if that makes sense. But it's things like that, that like probably would've never come up just because like, that's not necessarily how we like to play, but as you play with more and more people, you're going to get those, you know, kind of pieces of feedback where it's like, okay, like, yeah, maybe that's not what I set out for this to be, but like that could be a really fun, additional rule or, you know, house rules or whatever it is.
[00:14:16] Azhelle Wade: How do you know, what to include and what not to include from those suggestions?
[00:14:21] Greg Watson: You know, I think at the end of the day as a creator, like it, yes, you want it to be saleable. And especially for us coming from, you know, the business side of things, like I. You know, passion's great, but like I also don't wanna sink a bunch of money into something that I'm not gonna get back. Yeah. I think that's a, a fair assessment, but at the end of the day, like it as a creator, like it's your. Your product. It, it it's what you want to be out there. I will say we entirely self-funded it. So like, we were never going after like licensing deals. We weren't kickstarting it. Yeah. So like, we, we wanted it to be something that was like, this is what we wanted it to be. Yeah. So if we liked the recommendation, then it was, yeah, that's great. Or like, you know, we can see like, oh, okay. So from like the business side of things, like this does make it more accessible, whatever it is. But at the same time, like we're not gonna do something just because like, if it's not what we think it should be.
[00:15:22] Azhelle Wade: Going back to your game. Can you give us your three minute elevator pitch? Cause we didn't start with that.
[00:15:27] Greg Watson: Yes. So proof the game, the game of making cards disappear. So the goal of the game is twofold. The game's played over a series of seven rounds in each individual round. You are trying to get rid of the cards in your hand before your opponents. However, that's not gonna happen in all seven rounds, if it does. You're very lucky at the end of seven rounds, your ultimate goal, and the way you win the game is by scoring the lowest number of points. And your points are tallied up based on the cards left in your hand at the end of each round. Very good.
[00:15:57] The short script game play is that in each round you're playing cards equal to or lower than the person before you the quantity of cards you play doesn't matter. It's just the value that keeps going until one of two things happens. Someone can no longer play a card equal to or lower than the person before them. And at that point, you have to pick up the cards in the center of the playing area they're added to your hand and play moves on to the next person. So it's kind of a double whammy. If you, if you can't play. The other thing that could happen is that someone puts a poof. So there are two ways to poof the pile in the center of the table.
[00:16:32] The first is by playing a poof card, the obvious one. And the second one is by playing the fourth or more of a kind. So that could mean that you've got four of a kind in your hand, which would be great, or it could mean that the person before you played two sevens, you've got two more sevens that makes four, and it would clear the pile. Nice. What happens when you poof, is that all the cards get moved to the discard pile? Or whatever house rule you might decide to make up. And then you get to play a new card starting with any value you'd like, so it's kind of a double win or a double lose situation. That's, you know, the, the gross oversimplification of it. But that's the, you know, when we're at a con or if I'm teaching someone kind of high level. Yes. Wow. I'm a salesperson. So like spiels are my thing.
[00:17:20] Azhelle Wade: So let's go to that next you mentioned earlier that you had a certain background that helped you with your game. So what was that background experience that helped you launching this game?
[00:17:30] Greg Watson: Yeah. So, like I said, my background has always been in the retail and CPG space. So working at large retailers like target and then I switched over to the vendor side of things, selling products to. Large retailers. Yeah. Li including, but not limited to target. And that's what I currently do as well, just for a different category. So yes, I'm very kind of fluent in, you know, selling the retail space. I think, particularly because I did work in selling board games and puzzles I knew. I just, I think there are things that I paid attention to throughout the creative process that other people may not have or things I'm thinking of kind of now yeah.
[00:18:20] That won't come into effect for, you know, until we're at a point where we're talking to large retailers. Yeah. Just little things. Like, even like the color palette that we've chosen. Like if you look at the, the box color, like there's. A single product on a shelf in the game set at pretty much any retailer that has the same color palette. That was very strategic. Interesting, you know, interesting. Yeah. Like we, we picked a color that would stand out. We picked an aesthetic that would stand out and, you know, I I'm generalizing things, but like we, we are. Particular about like what we are going for.
[00:18:59] When we are designing the box originally, you know, right now we've done our first print run and we're selling exclusively on Amazon, but like we already knew, like once we pressed print on this first run, What we were gonna need to change for what I would refer to as like the retail run. Yeah. So that, you know, hopefully assuming we do well and we sell through to a point where, you know, large retailers are interested or that we go into distribution for like, you know, your mom and pop toy and game stores, things like that. Like we already knew what was gonna need to change. And honestly, like even before we had finished.
[00:19:41] Printing the first one, like we already have the second version designed. Wow. Just because like, as pretty much, as soon as we went to print. And like started selling. We were like, okay, this is what we need to change. Like we wanna be ready for when that time comes, because, you know, especially in today's digital age, like we could go viral on TikTok and sell out everything. I mean, hasn't happened, unfortunately, you know, you're but. Yeah, but like, we wanna be ready for when that time comes. So it's just things like that. That, like, my background really helped me with cuz I think, especially from my personal experience, I, in my last job is.
[00:20:21] It's a long process, you know, redesigning a game, even things that seem simple, like updating packaging and stuff like that. Like it's not ever as straightforward as you think it's gonna be. Yeah. So we just, we wanted to be ready. And I think it's just things like that. It really helped to have my background, you know, it's not gonna probably. Change your level of success. You know, right at the beginning, like you still have, have to have a great product, have to get into the right people's hands. There's a little bit of luck, blah, blah, blah. But I think just for the kind of long run you know, it definitely helped to have. Known some of that stuff.
[00:20:56] Azhelle Wade: I think, they say success is like, where opportunity meets preparation. So you've got all the preparation. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But I'm curious.
[00:21:02] Greg Watson: Now I just need that opportunity.
[00:21:04] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Well, you don't have to share this cuz you might not want to, but what were like, were there any key changes from your package online to what you think will be for retail?
[00:21:13] Greg Watson: Yes. So I'm very happy to share it. So cuz this is something that like. Evangelized to people like whenever, like, especially coming from my last job, like, you know, I want everyone to do well. So no, so like right now, our packaging is horizontal. Yes. So it, it's still only about six inches wide. Like it's not large. When you're talking to a retailer, they're always gonna want it to be vertical mm-hmm . So when we flip it on its side, like your package is the same side, it's just the orientation. So, you know, then it's three inches wide versus six, which means they can fit more on their shelf. Mm-hmm which is good for their productivity, blah, blah, blah. But as a creator, like, you know, and this is what I was talking about.
[00:21:56] Like, Things like that have more of an impact than you'd think is that, you know, our whole branding. Took up, you know, six inches. Yep. And you have to think about like, okay, can you still maintain that? Same for us. It's relatively easy because it's mainly, it's really just like the logo, but like the state that you wanted. Yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, especially a lot of games, like there, there's a lot of art. That goes on onto a, a game box or even a toy box too. Mm-hmm so like thinking about like, okay, if I switch that or change that orientation, it's not just, you know, going into your file and pressing rotate, like.
[00:22:38] Azhelle Wade: Everything sideways, things don't fit anymore. You might have to redraw characters or yeah.
[00:22:43] Greg Watson: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the other piece for us, and this is so important, especially in today. You know, inflationary environment was pricing. Like we, we knew that at the beginning we were gonna have to spend more on marketing. I mean, we're spending, like, I don't know. 30 or 40% of our total retail value. Wow. On marketing right now. Wow. Just because it's, it's such a crowded space, so you've gotta make sure that like, everyone is always gonna say like price yourself, low, go lower, more people will buy it. But like as a brand new product, and if you don't have a following, like. I mean, we have our personal followings, but as a business, we have no following or credibility. So if we were priced $5 lower, like, you know, we sell for 24 99. Yeah. I would love to be at 1999 because I know that's more accessible. But I also know that I'm gonna have to spend. You know, $7 a unit just to get the unit out the door.
[00:23:45] Yeah. Let alone all of the other things that come into it. So I think that's just a really important part. And I mean, I think as an entrepreneur, like, you know, you're a first, especially if you're self-funding things like that, like you just everyone is going to say like, go one way. But like, you've got to make sure that, you know, for yourself. And like, we are already prepared that like, you know, hopefully we do do really well and you know, two years from now, we've got placement at target in Barnes and noble and all of those sorts of places. I'm like, yeah, maybe when we're producing a hundred thousand units a year, We can sell for 1999. Yeah. But like, you know, you've just, you've gotta kind of plan out your business and what the, the path is gonna be or what your goals are.
[00:24:30] Azhelle Wade: What did you tell is your price point right now?
[00:24:33] Greg Watson: 24 99.
[00:24:34] Azhelle Wade: And I wanna add in cuz I've had other students come to me and say, Ohel, you know, I have an invention and I'm gonna price it at I don't wanna say the price, but let's say I'm gonna price it at $9,90 and because they were told, you know, you shouldn't start too low. and I just wanna make sure people listening know there is like, there is a limit to that. Like, of course you don't wanna start too low, but you have to look at your market and what they're willing to spend on a similar product and go on the high end of that. Not just the high end of what it costs you to produce it. like, it's not just like taking what it costs to produce it. And like multiplying times 25, like that's not what we're doing.
[00:25:10] Greg Watson: Yeah, no, I mean, you absolutely have to look at the market. I mean, like we know that, like we know that 24 99 is relatively on the high end for a casual card game. Yes. But at the same time, if you look at, you know, Not only our card count, but like, if you look at a lot of, you know, I'll call them boutique game.
[00:25:31] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I was gonna say like design game actually. Yeah. Cause it's like a, it's the style and the, oh, and the foil you have on it. It just looks high end.
[00:25:40] Greg Watson: Yeah, well, and it's, you know, it, it's not UNO or phase 10 or right. It's not a commodity card against humanity. Like it's not something that is in everyone's home. So like yeah. You know, you can warrant a premium. Yes. But like, especially, you know, and this ties into the marketing conversation is, you know, you're gonna have to spend more to get people to pay probably $5 more. Like I said, I would love for this to be at 1999, but like I'm also running. Business that, you know, and you've gotta factor that in.
[00:26:13] Azhelle Wade: I had two questions for you. One is about your packaging, which I love. And the other, I feel like just escaped. My brain, I guess when, when you were yeah, the other escape, my brain. So let's go to the packaging. So with your card design, how hard, or how adamant were you to keep that foil? Cause the poof card games have this beautiful foil on, I don't know how many of the cards that ha you probably know 10, 10 cards, like yeah. To only 10. Yeah, no so he is this beautiful foil on 10 cards. I love I've done iridescent foil on packaging before, and I had to fight tooth and nail to keep iridescence on a package, like a tiny little spot. And you've got it on 10 cards. So how hard did you fight for it? How adamant were you that like, no, this, it needs to be foil?
[00:26:58] Greg Watson: Yeah. I mean, I think for us it was something where it. it really adds to the game. Mm-hmm , you know, there's that element like I am a, I think every product or every experience would sh should come with some element of surprise and delight. So like, I felt very strongly that, like, that was our element of surprise and delight. Like when you use the poof cards, it's like fun. You get to screen poof, like the cards reflect that kind of joy and yeah. You know, it, it. Even when we were designing the packaging, like a, I wanted it to be very visceral. Like I, I like, that's why we picked the name. We did. It's why we picked the aesthetic. We did. It's why we chose the foil. So like, while it was. So expensive. Like, I, I can't tell, like, I mean, those 10 cards cost like as much as the other 160.
[00:27:54] Oh, but like, it was one of those things that just like, I felt like it added so much to it. Yeah. Because it, it is one of those things too, where. And I'm gonna keep using UNO and phase 10 as the examples, cuz that's what everyone knows, but like you open those and it's a deck of cards. There's just great games, but like not a lot of excitement when you open that box. And like, I wanted this to be something like when you open a brand new box. We have a little thank you card in every single box that says, you know, thank you for supporting a small business. And then you take that out. You've got the instructions, take that out. And then right on top are, you know, those holographic poof cards. And it's just like that, like, whoa, I wasn't expecting like that.
[00:28:37] Now I get why I paid maybe a little bit more. So I just felt like it was really important and even as we thinking about, you know, this further iteration of the game and, you know, the quote unquote retail version, like I don't love the idea of continuing to pay for it. But at the same time, like, I feel like that's what people talk about. Like when it is people see the game or they talk about it, they're like, oh my God, I love these. Or like, we were demoing at washing con, which is like a small tabletop convention here in DC, Uhhuh . And like, that was like the consistent, like, oh my God, these are so fun. I love this. Oh, so awesome. Yeah, it's something that I feel like. I think, you know, games are about the experience and the spending time with people. And I want the product itself to kind of reflect, you know, that, that joy so.
[00:29:26] Azhelle Wade: Pun intended.
[00:29:29] Greg Watson: You got that before I did. So.
[00:29:32] Azhelle Wade: That was good. That was good. Well, okay. One more question before we go to our final question. Have you noticed since inflation, cuz you mentioned inflation that customers are more willing to spend the money on a, on a card game like this, are you realizing that their bars rising a little bit or not yet? Has it not happened yet?
[00:29:52] Greg Watson: I think games and the broader toy space are probably be harder than others. Because it is a very discretionary category. You know, we all still have to pay for our paper towels and you know, our food and like, you can't save there. Like you can't skim there, but like, do I need this game when I've already got 20 at home? Hmm. That's a little bit more up in the air. So like, while I think there are certain sub segments of the population that are probably okay with it. And I think, especially when we think about, you know, All of, I think we're gonna see prices increase across the board in this category. So like, it actually might make us more competitive. Yeah. Because we were already priced there and like, we haven't gone into production again so we can stay there.
[00:30:44] We paid 20 21 prices versus, you know, all of the other guys, especially like those mid-size companies, not so much, you know, your Hasbros cetera, but like those mid-size companies, they might be passing on. Price increases that maybe we'll see retails increase as well. So that might help us. But at the same time, I think we probably have a lot more working against us in this industry. Because you don't need a car, a toy or game like, you know, they're fun and you know, they're a great alternative. I mean, we were chatting before the show travel is so expensive and that was something that really helped our industry during COVID was that people weren't traveling. So like, you know, maybe that's gonna help sustain this kind of momentum we've seen in the toys game space.
[00:31:34] Azhelle Wade: So my next question to you was actually gonna be, have you adjusted your marketing in any way to combat. The inflation, like how have you adjusted it? But then you kind of gave me the idea of like, oh, you could do marketing on how it's so expensive to travel, but you can have fun with your family at home with this game. Like, you know?
[00:31:52] Greg Watson: Yeah. I mean, our marketing around the game has really always been about together time. Yeah. So like, I mean, the game is, you know, quite frankly, perfect for travel because it's small, you throw it in your bag, you can play it for hours or you can play it for 10 minutes. So like, it's great for that. Don't get me wrong. But at the same time, like, you know, it, it's about spending time with your friends and family and that's, you know, a lot of our marketing, if it shows up on your Facebook or your Instagram, like it's always gonna be about like, A game night at home, things like that, you know, we use the, you know, the brief description of a casual card game for friends and family alike. Like we really are kind of focused around, not so much like what the game is, but what the game can do.
[00:32:37] Azhelle Wade: That's so right. Yeah. What the, how it'll make you feel benefits of playing it. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. I have to ask because you've been too positive. What were you gotta tell people what was like a major struggle you had to overcome through this whole thing. So they don't feel like, wow. So easy for Greg. Like, can I really do this? Yeah. Like, no,
[00:32:54] Greg Watson: I mean, and honestly it's expectations. I mean, like are like. Our sales are not what I had hoped. They would've been like, you know, you hear about the success stories of, you know, products going viral on TikTok and things like that. And I think one of the things that I have to remind myself, particularly in the toys game space is that you're not selling like a cosmetic or a skincare product that costs $10. And it's an easy impulse purchase like, right. It it's something that you're, you're not investing in. That's probably too grandiose a term, but it takes some convincing to get people to buy into it. So I think that's honestly been my biggest struggle is like I, especially coming from where I did professionally, like I'm used to seeing the numbers of products that sell at target and Walmart and things like that. Yeah.
[00:33:44] So like, you know, I knew we weren't gonna be there. But I also saw, you know, what they did in their first year and things like that. So I think it's just, you know, reminding yourself and, I talked about a little bit earlier is like, at the end of the day, like you're running a business, like you wanna be successful and profitable and things like that, but also like it's about, you know, the fact that you did make something yourself and it's yours and you get to call it your own. So I think that's just been, the biggest struggle for me is like from the business side of things, like trying to disconnect success, Yeah, financially or, you know, performance wise from, you know, the fact that like we did do all of this.
[00:34:22] Azhelle Wade: Cause you're in that corporate world professionally. That's why your mind is so yeah, your yeah, your numbers are.
[00:34:28] Greg Watson: Yeah. It's what I, it's what I'm trained to do. Yeah. Like I'm my, my brain is trained to say like, Yeah, but you could do more. Yeah. Yeah. That's hard versus like let's reflect on what you have done.
[00:34:40] Azhelle Wade: So yeah. Let's celebrate. You were celebrating Greg. Great job. Great job.
[00:34:45] Greg Watson: Thanks Azhelle.
[00:34:46] Azhelle Wade: Great job. Okay. So my last closing question for you today, Greg, what toy blew your mind as a kid or game? It could be a game.
[00:34:56] Greg Watson: Okay. So I loved hot wheels as a kid. Like I was addicted. So growing up, my grandfather actually owned a drag strip, so a race track. So I kind of grew up going to that. But like I had, you know, those old school, like plastic, like pencil and art supply cases. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From the nineties I had probably like six of those filled with hot wheels. And we had this, I don't know why we didn't have like a railing on our staircase. We had like this really wide, like, I don't know, ramp basically. Okay. So I would race them down that and they would like launch into the wall at the bottom of the staircase. But no, I was like, I was addicted to hot wheels, but then on the complete opposite side of things, because happy pride month boys play with Barbies too. And I, my brother and I used to put on like elaborate Broadway reenactments with our Barbies.
[00:35:58] Azhelle Wade: Oh my God.
[00:35:58] Greg Watson: So yeah, like I said, we were not a TV and video game family, so like.
[00:36:03] Azhelle Wade: That's really nice.
[00:36:04] Greg Watson: My list of toys and games. I like have fond, distinct memories of as a kid is very long. Wow. Cause that was, I mean, that was what we did like.
[00:36:17] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so lovely. That's really nice. Yeah. How'd they stop you from watching TV? I don't know. I feel like a lot of parents would want those tips.
[00:36:23] Greg Watson: It was just never something that like we did until we got older. And like, I think, especially because I did grow up, you know, I was born in 91. So like those younger years yeah. Was still pre phone. Yeah. We had internet, but like not the same type of internet we've got now. Yeah. So I think like, it was, it was easier to avoid that. Yeah. Once I got to like middle school. Yeah. Then. Pop culture became so important in like my day to day life that like, I, you know, MTV was on every afternoon and things like that. Yeah. But you know, for the first, I would say 10 years of my life, like it was just, it wasn't something I wanted to do. my parents just got lucky.
[00:37:08] Azhelle Wade: They are lucky. I mean, I was born. Yeah. I was born in a year that I don't need to disclose, but like, yeah, we didn't have a lot. It wasn't that, that heavy on the internet. I still had like to go into Ms. Dos prompt to get into windows. So those days. Yeah. But okay. Everyone listening today poof the game is available on Amazon exclusively, right? Yes. Exclusively proud gay own company. Please support poof The game. And that's all I gotta say. Do you have anything next coming up with poof the game? Where can people connect with you and find out more about poof the game, Greg?
[00:37:39] Greg Watson: Well, we are on all of the socials at poof the game. Now that things are starting to happen, we're gonna try to start going to more cons. We're moving to New York in about three weeks here. So hopefully there we'll start to get going to, you know, board game bars and things like that and demoing, but yeah. Keep an eye out. Hopefully big things to come.
[00:37:58] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Hopefully big things to come and we should get coffee. Okay. Take care, Greg.
[00:38:02] Greg Watson: All right. Bye.
[00:38:03] Azhelle Wade: Well toy people there, you have it. My interview with Greg Watson. Before we wrap up today's episode, I wanna give a shout out to a fellow listener whose employees I met at a recent toy trade show. I wanna give a shout out to Sarah silks. Hey, there's Sarah silks. Sarah silks makes play silks dress up and Fort building play clip. Of natural and sustainable materials. Her brand is all about open ended play. and you could check out Sarah's silts on Instagram at Sarah's silks, S a R a H S S I L K S. Or you can head over to Sarah's silks.com. Sarah is a listener of the podcast and her employees that I met at the trade show were lovely. I'm so sorry. I didn't get a chance to meet you, Sarah, but I'm sure we will find time to meet in the future.
[00:39:01] I absolutely love your silks. They are beautiful. And fabulous. Open-ended play pieces, love them, and happy to share them with other listeners of the show. What I want you to take away from today's episode, is how your own life can be the best inspiration for your game or your toy ideas. While you could be inspired from something in your educational background or your profession. You could also just be inspired by a night out with your friends or your family. Something that happened to Greg. When he came up with Poof The Game, they just kind of created their own game as a family. In this episode, we also dove into the meaning of game mechanics. If you've taken my course, or if you've listened to a lot of these podcast episodes, we've addressed game mechanics before.
[00:39:56] And I wanted to take this opportunity with Greg to really dive into the meaning of them. So there are hundreds of gay mechanics out there. Greg shared a website that he uses board game geek.com where you can find a glossary explaining all the different types of game mechanics and game mechanics themselves are rules or ways that you play the game. So it could be something like dice rolling. It could be something like guessing. It's really just a way that you play the game, how a player might win points or win the game. The games mechanics are the core features of the gameplay, and together will determine whether or not your product is truly different enough from anything else out there on the market.
[00:40:43] Additionally, we learned how Greg and his partner were super intentional when it came to planning the packaging design and look of their game. They didn't just say, you know, oh, I like butterflies. So it's gonna be a game package with butterflies all over it. No, they went to the store. They looked at competitor game items and strategically chose colors and finishes. That would pop on the shelf against what's already out there today. And we heard how, from the beginning, Greg was thinking about how his product would show up differently online versus retail. And he mentioned that for online, his product is oriented horizontally, but for retail, it will be portrait. So these are the kinds of things you wanna be paying attention to when you are developing your own toy or game product.
[00:41:36] Now if you, my friend love this podcast, but for some reason you haven't yet left a review. What are you waiting for? Every time I get a new review, my phone lights up. I read it, lights up my whole day and really keeps me motivated to come back each and every week with fresh inspiration and education for you. So if you could take a moment wherever you're listening to this podcast, please leave me a rating and review. As always. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me, that you tune in to this one until next week, I'll see a later toy people.
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