Episode #135: When Your Brand Goes Viral with Danielle Murrell Cox of Zuri and Dre
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What happens after you go viral? How do you go viral in the first place? There is no perfect formula to make something go viral on social media, but there are things you can do to make it more likely. Today’s guest had a viral post on social media that opened up opportunities for a book deal and a line of plush toys.
Today’s guest is Danielle Murrell Cox. She self-published an uplifting coloring book called Black Queens & Kings. She then went viral on social media which led to a publishing deal with Harper Collins for her next book, My Hair. Then she created the plush toy line Zuri and Dre, based on the characters from Black Queens & Kings. Danielle based her characters on people in her family and community, and really put “the puzzle of you” into her ideas.
In today’s episode you will learn what factors led to Danielle going viral, and what happened afterwards. You’ll also hear about the personal experiences that led Danielle to create her characters with wide noses and natural hair styles. Finally, you will find out some amazing tips for how to progress in your business when you’re not sure what to do next, like going to trade shows, getting on top of your e-mail marketing, and creating a Kickstarter campaign for a new project.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Learn how Danielle injected her own experiences into her first entrepreneurial project. [10:11]
Find out exactly what Danielle posted that went viral on social media. [12:55]
Learn how to up your chances of going viral on social media. [14:35]
Find out the differences between self-publishing a book and working with a publisher. [18:18]
Learn how much time it takes to get a children’s book to market when working with a publisher. [21:27]
Find out what inspired Danielle to turn her artwork into plush toys. [23:49]
Learn how Danielle pivoted when she found out her original idea would be too expensive. [25:15]
Find out the unique way Danielle used social media to pick the names for her plush dolls. [28:19]
Learn essential tips from Azhelle for what to do when you’re not sure how to get to the next step in your business. [37:12]
Hear about Danielle’s experiences as a Black woman both in the toy industry and as a graphic designer. [42:24]
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Follow Danielle on Instagram by clicking here.
Follow Danielle on Twitter by clicking here.
To visit Danielle’s website click here.
Check out Danielle’s plushies Zuri & Dre by clicking here.
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 135.
[00:00:06] Hey there toy people, Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of the toy coach podcast, making it in the toy industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today's guest is Danielle Murrell Cox. She's a minimalist graphic designer and illustrator from Montreal. Danielle's best known for herself published coloring books called Black Queens and Black Kings, which are filled with images of powerful people and positive affirmations. This book will help uplift your spirit any day.
[00:00:48] And these coloring books went viral on social media, giving her the opportunity to have segments on CBC. Global and CTV amongst many other local and international platforms. The viral post on social media also gave her the opportunity to create a book with Harper Collins and together they published the book, My Hair. My Hair is the perfect introduction to an array of beautiful hairstyles for tiny natural listas in training. Now, in addition to her work as a graphic designer, she's also the founder illustrator and designer of her plush toy brand Zuri and Dre.
[00:01:25] Which is why I wanted to have her on the podcast today. The toy brand officially launched in January of 2021 and is based on her coloring books. Along with her own work, she's also recognized for being the illustrator and designer for the Big Dreamers, a Canadian Black History Activity Book for kids series. So today we're gonna talk about her journey in the toy industry, and I'm sure there are so many bits of information she's gonna have to share and teach us all that we can learn from. Welcome to the show Danielle.
[00:01:54] Danielle Murrell Cox: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me
[00:01:56] Azhelle Wade: I'm excited to dive into your story. Whenever somebody says they went viral, I wanna know when, why, how, and we need to break it down so we can all replicate it. Like that's the whole reason. So welcome. And you're also a listener of the podcast, which I just found out.
[00:02:12] Danielle Murrell Cox: I am. So this is like a full circle, like fan girl moment right now. Like I'm a fan first before I'm a guest, so I'm super excited.
[00:02:20] Azhelle Wade: Ah, that means so much. When did you find the podcast?
[00:02:23] Danielle Murrell Cox: I think it was a year ago now.
[00:02:26] Azhelle Wade: Okay, perfect timing for what you were starting, your toy brand. There you go.
[00:02:30] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. I think I was looking for mentorship in the most like financially stable way AKA I didn't have budget. I need to find some help on the internet and I found you.
[00:02:41] Azhelle Wade: I'm so glad I was there. So I wanna first talk about you're a minimalist graphic designer. So what kind of work did you do before you ever started your toy line?
[00:02:51] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. I mean, I graduated 2011. Don't wanna date myself a little bit, but I graduated in 2011 from college here at Montreal at Dawson College. And after that I was freelancing ever since I graduated, but I still knew I needed to of course, learn on the job. So I did work in corporate. I worked in a financial company at first, we were doing like their forms and all that kind of fun stuff. Page layout out, all that stuff. And then I worked in a houseware homework type of company in their marketing department. It's called Stok.
[00:03:17] People in Canada may not know of it. And so I worked in their marketing department for a good three years. And throughout that whole time I was freelancing. So I worked there or I worked in the other offices and I was freelancing all the same time. And then in 2011, I actually fully quit my last job, which was at Stok in the marketing department. And, did the leap and went full time freelance, which was absolutely terrifying. Absolutely scary. But it was a good process because before I actually left the job that I was last at, I actually went part-time.
[00:03:46] So they allowed me to go part-time cause I was very open and very vocal about the fact that I freelanced, like my boss knew at the time. And so she was actually open to me going from full-time five days a week to part-time, which was two or three days a week. And then from there I was able to kind of build up my client base a little bit more and then finally make the full time switch to freelance 2017.
[00:04:06] Azhelle Wade: So, what kind of things were you freelance creating?
[00:04:09] Danielle Murrell Cox: So I was working with small business owners. Funny enough, cause I ended up being a small business owner. But I was working with small business owners. I was working with, people who wanted to create their brand, their logos, their colors, their guidelines, their visuals to start the company, quite the brand. I was working with nutritionist at one point as well, and she offered like classes and coaching and stuff, few people who were in the sports world for nutrition. So I worked on website. I worked on, her logo and her visuals and any marketing material. So it was a lot of branding. It was a lot of marketing material and occasionally it was webdesign as well.
[00:04:39] Azhelle Wade: So, how did you find your style? Because you call yourself a minimalist graphic designer and I
[00:04:46] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah.
[00:04:46] Azhelle Wade: Design and drawing, and I struggle honestly, a lot with just sitting down and like doodling for myself and doing my own style. So how did you, while you were freelancing, figure out your own style?
[00:04:56] Danielle Murrell Cox: A lot of it at the beginning, from in school to after school was copying what I saw out there. So whether it was on interest or whether it like, graphic design magazines, or just what I saw that was posted on marketing or billboards and stuff like that, a lot of it was copying. So not necessarily copying exactly what they did, but mimicking their style. And so I had no idea what I wanted to do or how I wanted to create. And then a lot of it too, was me trying to be a minimalist myself in my personal life.
[00:05:23] So kind of join in with that as well. I was trying to let go of a lot of things. My grandmother had passed away, so that was a huge part of it too. We were getting, letting go of a lot of stuff. And so it was like a personal and a professional journey. What I say, I'm a minimalist in my personal life, probably not. I'd like to be, but I'm not. At least I could do it in my, professional life. So it was a lot of trial and error. It was a lot of mimicking and getting inspiration from other people. And then it just turned into me not being happy with what I was treating.
[00:05:48] I wasn't happy with what I was seeing. It was nice, but I wasn't, I wasn't happy it wasn't bringing me any type of joy. And so it just me realizing that. Yes, it's great to create things that people enjoy, but I need to love what I'm doing in order for me to be able to help other people. Like the same kind of going back to the idea of like your cup has to be full before you overflow and fill other people's cups. Right. So I had to have the joy in what I was trading before, anything else. And so it was a lot of like trial and error.
[00:06:13] It was a lot of, no, I can't do this or you're supposed to do this and you're not supposed to do that. And so it kind of was ups and downs until I got to the point where I was like, no, This is what I. This is what I'm good at. And minimal, it's sometimes harder than more maximal type of design ideas too. So that's a whole other conversation, but a lot of trials and error, a lot of ups and downs, and a lot of realizing, like stick to what you like and not just what people think you should do.
[00:06:37] Azhelle Wade: Right. That I find that really hard to even know, because I, I think when I sit down to like create any piece of artwork because of, I guess my background in the toy industry, I'm like, what is the purpose of this? Like, you know, so then you just try to create toward that purpose instead of creating like the purpose, maybe making you smile. Might be the purpose. yeah. So that's interesting. So then you found your style and then what inspired you to create this Black Kings and Black Queens book? And was the first one I know right now you have one called Black Kings and a one called Black Queens, but was the first one together?
[00:07:09] Danielle Murrell Cox: So the first one was actually Black Queens. I have a combination. So Queens and Kings on Amazon. So for people who wanna be able to just purchase it through Amazon, that's the combination book. Yeah. So the first book was actually Black Queens. And it all started based off of social media. Funny enough. So I don't know if anyone remembers, but remember those, like, I mean, I think they're still around, they're called Bitmoji, those little avatars that were part of Snapchat that you can customize and make it look like yourself. Hated them. Visually hated them.
[00:07:35] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. Why?
[00:07:36] Danielle Murrell Cox: I'm not a fan. They just, I love the customization aspect of it, but I visually didn't like how they were, I guess, because they weren't minimal. Right. They were more detailed and all that kind of fun stuff, but I was not a fan. And so I actually started with creating an avatar for my face. Based off of like my signature hairstyle at the time, which was the two pompoms. And I just did that in black and white with no mouth. Cause drawing mouths are hard. I didn't wanna have a mouth. So there was no mouth.
[00:08:01] Azhelle Wade: The reason behind the design, because I didn't wanna draw a mouth. It was too hard.
[00:08:05] Danielle Murrell Cox: And mouths are hard. Yeah. It is what it's. And I realized what my strengths are my weakness. And I just follow the train.
[00:08:12] Azhelle Wade: That's Uhhuh.
[00:08:14] Danielle Murrell Cox: So I did, I drew myself well digitally, like on, on my computer I posted it and then people like loved it and I was like, oh, okay. So then I did more with different hairstyles. The face stayed the same, the hairstyle changed, still the mouth. And from there, I kind of filed into creating people who, quote unquote, advertiser people who look like people I interacted with or people in my family or people I've seen online or just people in my community.
[00:08:38] And then it turned into, like women, feminine looking, masculine looking. Like kind of all over the place, but they all had the same face. So they all had the eyes, the simple eyes and the simple nose. Nose was always wide. Cause I always wanted to make sure that the noses that I created were wide. Cause I always had an issue with my nose when I was younger and cause people made fun of me for my wide nose. Yeah. And so I always wanted to make sure.
[00:09:00] Azhelle Wade: My mum tell me to put the clip on it. So that it would get smaller. She was like, yeah, just like pinch your nose every night. Like I used to do that and.
[00:09:07] Danielle Murrell Cox: So like now anything I do in regards to faces always has a wide nose cause like people need to realize white nose are great and they're beautiful. The faces, I posted them on, on Instagram, got a lot of people, responding, commenting and stuff like that. And then it just turned into like, okay, what can I do with this? People are like, you need to do more. And I was like, okay. I mean, I'm listening, but like what , what do I do? And then it turned into the coloring book.
[00:09:28] I mean, I have the experience with tape layout. I work with printers. Like I know that aspect of creating something from computer to physical. So that aspect wasn't hard for me. The hardest part for creating the actual coloring book was like, figuring out what illustrations to create for the pages. But yeah, it all started from social media. So it started for me posting something just based off of me, not liking another thing. And then it turned into people loving it.
[00:09:52] Azhelle Wade: I love it because like, I think I talked about this a while ago. It was an episode I did where I talked about like the puzzle of you, and that's what you were doing, where you're pulling from all these parts of your life, your page layout, background, your graphic design background, this new style that you've developed, the avatars that you hated and the one you and the love you have for wide noses.
[00:10:09] And then you're combining everything, you know, into something new. Okay. I wanna back up a little bit because a lot of people that go viral say this thing that you said, like, I just posted it on my social media and like everybody loved it. And then, you know, so the question I often have is, were you already a person who is very engaged with social media, even in a personal, capacity where you would post with your friends and family a lot before you did this?
[00:10:34] Danielle Murrell Cox: So surprisingly enough, the reason why became viral wasn't because of those individual, like avatars that I was posting, it was actually a picture I posted on Twitter. Cause I still love Twitter. A picture I posted very raw, very like not edgy, but just like real life of me taking a picture of the book in the box at the printer to say, this is my first print run. So that picture is actually one viral on Twitter. And before that, Yeah. I mean, I love Twitter. I, I tend to tweet on a regular basis whether it's personal, professional.
[00:11:04] Azhelle Wade: Do you really?
[00:11:04] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. I love post on Twitter. I think now at this point, I think Twitter is like my favorite, my favorite app. It's always been there. Like if you, if you go on my account, I'm pretty sure it says like joined in 2009. Like I've been on it forever.
[00:11:15] Azhelle Wade: Wow. I didn't. I never fell in love with Twitter.
[00:11:19] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah, I love Twitter. I think it, it just became like in good and bad ways. Like tightened myself up a bit. Back in the day it became like my journal. It became the place where I just like share things.
[00:11:28] Azhelle Wade: Interesting.
[00:11:29] Danielle Murrell Cox: Good or bad. Some things have been deleted. Some tweets have been deleted, cuz sometimes I share too much and not everyone needs to know all of your business.
[00:11:36] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:37] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. So before that I was always posting at least on Twitter, Instagram, I was kind of new to. I mean, I've been on it for, for a while now, but. I did share personal stuff on Instagram as well. And then it just turned into almost like a portfolio. Like it became a second portfolio. I always have my website, but then Instagram was the personal projects. But also shows my skills and my style and stuff like that. So, yeah, I posted personally, but then Instagram became more professional and Twitter just became kind of both. And it's the tweet on Twitter that kind of skyrocketed everything. Cause that's how an editor at Harper Collins found me.
[00:12:10] Azhelle Wade: So I just, I bring up that question because I think often people feel one I'll never go viral or two I'll go viral. I'll just post this thing and then I'll go viral. Yeah. I just want people to realize, like, it's not like you can just never be active on social media. And then one day, like, you know, you do need to have like some people who are us, usually looking at the stuff that you post, even if it's friends and family, so that if you happen to post something that really connects with people, then it has a chance. You self-publish this book, what does that really mean? When you self-publish your first book before you connected with Harper Collins.
[00:12:43] Danielle Murrell Cox: Mm-hmm I designed the file I sent to the printer and the printer printed it and that was it.
[00:12:48] Azhelle Wade: And then you sold it on your website.
[00:12:50] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. Like, that's literally what self-publish is for me, at least I don't see it any other way other than that. Of course you have your outlets, like your Amazon and stuff like that. But like, it's just a matter of like creating the content for me with coloring pages, getting it made from a printer who I actually worked with in a previous job. So like, it was funny how that connection is still going because of the job that I had.
[00:13:10] And then offering it to people, whether it's on a website, whether it's your website or Amazon or, in a bookstore. And yeah, that was the process for me. It wasn't, it wasn't hard because I had that, background in design when it came to the layout and creating the book itself and then I'm not printing it. So it was just the printer doing that work. So it was pretty easy in that then.
[00:13:29] Azhelle Wade: So as you shared your journey, this photo of like your first print run, you go viral. Harper Collins contacted you?
[00:13:35] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah.
[00:13:36] Azhelle Wade: What did they say?
[00:13:37] Danielle Murrell Cox: It is crazy because like in my wildest dreams, I never would've expected where I am today compared to where I thought I was gonna be. Like, I thought I would have a design agency, like nowhere close to where I thought would be. And so they saw the viral tweet and the editor from HarperCollins reached out and I thought it was fake. Didn't think it was real.
[00:13:53] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. That is what my friend said before we started this interview, I was telling Danielle about my friend Yesenia, who also was interviewed on this podcast, check out her episode. But she said the same thing. When she got a message from a publisher, she was like, I didn't think it was real. So I ignored it.
[00:14:08] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah, I'm just like, I looked at it and looked up the person after, and I was like, I Googled their name. Cause like, if you don't have a LinkedIn page, like you're probably fake, but they had a LinkedIn page. I was like, okay, this seems legit.
[00:14:22] Azhelle Wade: Oh, my gosh.
[00:14:23] Danielle Murrell Cox: I responded and then it, of course went from DMS to emails. And then after that, it was actually forwarded to another editor who was more in the kids' space within Harper Collins. And then that became my current editor for My Hair. Yeah, it's crazy. Like they DM me because they saw the viral pic. And when I posted that tweet, it wasn't just like me thinking it would do anything. It was just, I was excited. I wanted to share like, look at the thing I made that's physically in my hand. And so I was just excited to post it and people also shared that.
[00:14:56] Azhelle Wade: So, when she said she has an editor for her hair, she didn't mean like I have an editor for my hair. She meant she has an editor for her book, My Hair.
[00:15:06] Danielle Murrell Cox: Called My Hair. Yeah.
[00:15:08] Azhelle Wade: Tell us a little bit about My Hair, your book.
[00:15:10] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. So that was an amazing experience. It was also like different, right. Cause from between self publishing, compared to traditional publishing completely to different worlds. Right. Like, as we know.
[00:15:20] Azhelle Wade: Tell us. What's difference? How did you feel about it?
[00:15:24] Danielle Murrell Cox: They both have their pros and cons, right? Like self-publishing. You do anything and everything you want, whether good or bad, you could do anything from start to finish. You can have a book out tomorrow. If you create it today, right? You could do anything you want in that sense, you could decide the cover, the colors, the font, you could do anything. You want the size paper, et cetera. Now in traditional publishing, you don't have all that creative freedom.
[00:15:48] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:15:49] Danielle Murrell Cox: Right. Like they tell you a lot of what needs to be done. Which was like something I'm kind of used to in the graph design freelance world, right? Like I'm used to clients telling me what to do and then me creating it. So that wasn't too far also than what I'm used to. But the idea of from, self-publishing to traditional publishing definitely was different. And then of course with self publishing, you have to worry about all the distribution. You have to worry about the printing, the costs and everything. So that's a huge con when it comes to self publishing, if you're printing it yourself, or if you have another person printing it a self point.
[00:16:18] The point is you have to worry about all that aspect, distribution, printing, et cetera. Traditional publishing you're just sitting back and they're just taking it and doing all the things. And getting it into places that you can only imagine, like, I don't have the context to get it into Barnes and Noble in the states or in the Go here in Canada. Like that's, that's our kind of Barnes and Noble, similar kind of. Yeah equivalent. So they have all the access, they have all the contacts, they have all the resources to be able to get thousands of books, printed, distribute all those thousands of books and then also do the marketing and stuff.
[00:16:50] So pros and cons for both. I love both experiences and it was good to kind of get feedback from people who are in the industry as well. Cause like I'm making a self-published book and I'm doing what I think is right. But I don't know if people will enjoy it or people will receive it the same way I'm interpreting it. So in the traditional publishing world, they were able to give you the feedback, able to give you the insight, like, okay, no kids don't really like that type of, we need to add a mouth. Okay. That makes sense. Like, so in My Hair.
[00:17:19] Azhelle Wade: Don't worry. We'll get, we'll get someone to help you draw it. It'll be okay.
[00:17:23] Danielle Murrell Cox: So luckily, the look is super, so their faces are like half and like lines. So it's very, it's still in my style, which I love. It's very minimal, art, but it's full color compared were black and white and stuff. So pros and cons for both. I enjoy both of them in their own ways.
[00:17:40] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah. It was a little different when I looked at it, I was like, oh, this is like, I think I saw My Hair first. And then I went back to see your viral one. I was like, oh, they look very different, but I guess I know now I know why.
[00:17:51] Danielle Murrell Cox: Exactly.
[00:17:52] Azhelle Wade: You, you had to fit into the market. They were like, all right, Danielle, you can't be like to you. You just gotta, like, we gotta work on this.
[00:17:58] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. We gotta do a little bit of a tweak, but like you're doing great, but let's try go with this.
[00:18:02] Azhelle Wade: You're doing great. We love you, but. That's so funny. So, okay. So you did this book with Harper Collins. Do you have any more books on the way? Are you working with them for anything else?
[00:18:17] Danielle Murrell Cox: So at the moment, no, there's nothing on the way. There's no contract like signed or anything. Also another thing to mention when it came to traditional publishing release dates super far away from person to sale publishing, like I can again have a book ready tomorrow and print it. And it's not my website tomorrow. Whereas traditional publishing, especially for my book, it was such an awkward time. So two years before the actual release, they, it wa s when we started working on it is when like the contracts were being signed. And two years felt like forever, but of course two years came and it's like, okay, great. But two years happened in 2020.
[00:18:46] My book released in 2020. So it was a whirlwind of all the things I wish I could do, but couldn't do. The marking that could have happened, but couldn't happen. Yeah. Like I wanted to do a little mini book tour. I wanted to go to the states and go to different stairs and stuff. I wanted to visit my editor in New York cause they're based in New York, I'm based Montreal, Canada. So it's like. A lot of things I wish could have happened. Didn't happen just because of terrible timing because of the pandemic. But yeah, a big thing too, between the differences between traditional and, and self-publishing is like the timeframe in regards to releasing your actual book. Huge difference.
[00:19:21] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Did you like, feel like you needed that much time? I wonder cuz like your style is so minimal, like do you did wait, so you did the artwork and the copy or just the art?
[00:19:29] Danielle Murrell Cox: So there was a, was a ghost writer actually.
[00:19:32] Azhelle Wade: Oh, okay.
[00:19:33] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. Yeah. I wish I was good with words. I'm not I'm, I'm the one who does the pictures.
[00:19:38] Azhelle Wade: So you did art work?
[00:19:39] Danielle Murrell Cox: I did the artwork and then they had a ghost writer. Yeah. Who was actually my friend. I got my friend to actually be the ghost writer. So I was like a win-win, which is pretty cool.
[00:19:45] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that is so awesome.
[00:19:47] Yeah. You could actually see his name in the back of the book. Like if have book you could, his name is Carl Bernard. You could see his name in the back of the book. I think it says like special thanks to Carl Bernard at the bottom.
[00:19:57] Oh, oh, that's nice.
[00:19:59] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. So that was pretty cool. But no, I, I was just the one who did the artwork and funny enough, I didn't do the actual of the book. I did graphic design or lay out the book. They had a graphic designer who did it. And I was like, oh.
[00:20:10] Azhelle Wade: were like, oh, that's nice.
[00:20:12] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah.
[00:20:14] Azhelle Wade: So tell me what inspired you to turn your art into toys? When did you do that? Was that before you did this book? Was it after, when, when did all that happen?
[00:20:24] Danielle Murrell Cox: So it was definitely after cause the faces, I have them here actually, like right now.
[00:20:29] Azhelle Wade: so cute
[00:20:30] Danielle Murrell Cox: are based off of the faces in my coloring books, which again, no mouth. And they have the same eye shape and the same, no shape. So the books came first and then the dolls
[00:20:38] Azhelle Wade: But let's clarify, the, the queen and king book came first.
[00:20:43] These are different characters from my hair. So.
[00:20:45] Danielle Murrell Cox: these are characters from Kings and Queens
[00:20:48] because
[00:20:48] Azhelle Wade: a different character from my hair. Yeah.
[00:20:50] Danielle Murrell Cox: yeah, so my hair is completely different.
[00:20:53] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:20:53] Danielle Murrell Cox: more youthful looking faces in the sense of like features and of course, more color of course. But, the features from the dolls are based off of my self public coloring book. So not
[00:21:02] from the, my hair bore book.
[00:21:04] and it was, kind of like, I don't know, a lot of me like I'm, I'm still very. Much a kid at heart. Like I watch cartoons all the time. I probably watch cartoons more than real people shows. Yeah, like I'm like the things I normally tend to illustrate are animate are very like animated style or kid friendly in that sense.
[00:21:20] and so. The next step for me, wasn't really a plan. It was more of like, okay, what if, and my mom has always taught me, like ask questions, try things out, see what happens. and so funny enough, she's the reason why I became a graphic designer. So this is that's
[00:21:34] quite funny too. Yeah.
[00:21:35] but. It was just like, what, what else could I do?
[00:21:37] I was just like, in my curious phase, like what else could I do? And funny enough, I actually wanted do figurines. So vinyl, figurines, like
[00:21:44] fun pop style figurines. And then I realized that, the sample costs are very high.
[00:21:50] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I actually, one of the things I was gonna ask you was like, why'd you go with plush first, but
[00:21:55] yeah, I figured it was.
[00:21:56] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. So the original idea was gonna be, figuring. And then the sample cost I think was at that point was like seven 50. And in mind, like I'm in Canada. So like a dollar us might be like, let's say a dollar 70 Canadian. Right. And you multiply that by hundreds, then it gets a little pricey. Yeah. So I was like, that's hard.
[00:22:17] Azhelle Wade: That's a hard pass.
[00:22:20] Danielle Murrell Cox: So the prices were way too high for, a sample for a, and then I was like, okay, what's the next best thing, plus all as its, and then I just kind of went from there. And so I actually reached out to a manufacture supplier company actually based in the states. Cause I couldn't find anyone in Canada.
[00:22:36] But they're manufacturing regardless of the office being in the states, their manufacturing is still done in China. And so I've been working with them ever since, and they kind of helped me transform my illustration concept idea of a figurine into a doll in like over a few months and was first then Dre, and soon we're gonna have a new doll.
[00:22:57] Azhelle Wade: I know I saw that video today.
[00:22:59] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah, I'm so excited. It's a sample. No. So the name is actually gonna be based off of people's, feedback. And so that's actually how Z Andre was born because Z Andre weren't named by me. They were made named by my audience. I social a lot of
[00:23:14] life.
[00:23:14] Yeah. So when I first had the doll, I had like a page for the covering books.
[00:23:20] Cause the dolls were introduced on that page. And then from there I was like, what do you guys think the name should be from there? People gave me suggestions. I picked the two names I liked the most from, for each. Do I put it on an Instagram story, put a poll and then asked people which name they, they liked from the two that I chose and three and J one.
[00:23:35] And that's how the name came to be.
[00:23:37] Azhelle Wade: I love, I always say like survey your audience, this is like, you surveyed your audience into a whole business. It wasn't
[00:23:43] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah,
[00:23:44] exactly.
[00:23:45] Azhelle Wade: or vinyl? It was like, no, literally what the heck should I call this?
[00:23:48] Danielle Murrell Cox: exactly. Yeah. Yeah, no,
[00:23:50] Azhelle Wade: you happen to survey people for how much it should retail also? No.
[00:23:54] Danielle Murrell Cox: no. Cause at that point I was like looking at what was out there. I was also looking at cost and everything and I kind of just figured it was more than I knew it was gonna be more than just like. A random Teddy bear, you see at toys arrest or something, because of course it's so different and it's just me creating it.
[00:24:10] So I'm not a huge corporation. and I knew I didn't want it to be too expensive because I wanted to be accessible to people. Cause I know you can get dolls. Of course, like the hard classic ones for like 80 bucks. I knew
[00:24:19] I didn't want it to be too high in that
[00:24:20] sense, but I knew I couldn't make it as low as like $10 a dollar.
[00:24:24] Cause the cost
[00:24:25] is like 15 Canadians. So
[00:24:27] like
[00:24:28] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh.
[00:24:29] Danielle Murrell Cox: yeah.
[00:24:29] Azhelle Wade: wanna, I wanna read this mission you have from your site, Zuri and Dre plush represent anyone who feels unnoticed and unappreciated because of the melanin in their skin, her puffs, and his high top are more than hair they're statement to be natural. It is to be beautiful and wonderful.
[00:24:46] They're an anchor to be felt held and squeezed. And to a reminder that you belong
[00:24:51] It. It's so well written. Beautiful.
[00:24:53] So did you say why you were inspired to do this? I feel like,
[00:24:57] Danielle Murrell Cox: to create the dolls. It was, it was the curiosity in me. I was like, Hey, what else could I do after the books? Like, what else could I possibly create it? That was really it, there was no rhyme or reason. There was no like, okay, I'm gonna be a toy brand that I'm gonna start a whole new brand in business. Like nowhere close to that.
[00:25:13] It was just like, Hey, what else can I try?
[00:25:15] Azhelle Wade: Are you struggling at all to scale being kind of a one man show.
[00:25:19] Danielle Murrell Cox: 1000%. Yeah.
[00:25:20] Azhelle Wade: Okay. so what are your plans? What can we workshop right now? What do you need
[00:25:26] Danielle Murrell Cox: yeah. I mean, I need help with all the things to be quite honest with you. I think it's just like the same notion of like, if you. Do a whole bunch of stuff. You can't put a, of course, a hundred percent into everything you're doing, because you could only do so much. So it's like, I wanna be able to do five things, but I'm only doing like maybe 10 to 20% in each of those five things.
[00:25:46] Right. And I wanna be able to just do a hundred percent into one thing. So I'm actually getting help with marketing as of now, which is thank God. so I'm starting that, but I. Scaling for me is like, what does scaling even mean? Like what, what do I wanna do? What do I wanna create? Do I wanna be like the next hello, kitty?
[00:26:02] And I say, hello, kitty. Cause she also doesn't have a mouth. So I reference her a lot.
[00:26:05] Azhelle Wade: okay.
[00:26:07] Danielle Murrell Cox: yeah. I reference her a lot. but of course she's a cat and like, these are based off of people, but still like, I reference her a lot cause she has no mouth, but yeah. I mean, a lot of it is like, how do I get myself out there in the sense of like getting into.
[00:26:19] Bigger more stores. I do have the dolls on the indigo website, which again is the equivalent to barn and noble for us in Canada. but they don't have them in all those stores. And then I do have my books in some stores, but that's because I've reached out individually to those stores to get the books in those stores.
[00:26:34] That's where my self published books, my hair, the board book is through the, the publisher. So they work with all that. And I don't have to worry about that in that sense. I just get royalties whenever royalties will eventually. Which they haven't yet, but they will hopefully next year, but , but in regards to all the stuff that I'm doing myself, like the self published coloring books, and it's all just off, whatever I can handle or get myself into, I reach out to as many can in the sense of like brands or retailers, but it's. My email's probably just like another spa email to them. Right. It's just like, I'm, I'm a, nobody in their eyes. They don't have the connect. I don't have the connect to talk directly to a or directly to someone in the buying department or the
[00:27:14] buying team. So
[00:27:15] Azhelle Wade: we gotta get you to trade shows. Do you, I don't know if you saw my stories, but I was literally just at a trade show for small retailers and small toy companies. Yes. Like, why weren't you there? Why weren't you there? Because you weren't in my course and you didn't know about it. That's why, why
[00:27:28] Danielle Murrell Cox: you
[00:27:29] have a point, you have a point points were made, points were made, points were made
[00:27:34] Azhelle Wade: gosh. Okay. Don't worry. We're gonna get this together.
[00:27:37] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Cause I, I, I think part of it's like, what do I wanna do? I'm like, I, this is definitely something I do wanna pursue more. Like, I, I want to let go of freelance and graph, design and pursue more of the toys. I wanna, I wanna make this, my number one, it's still kind of a number two at this point, but I do wanna make it a number one, but I know that for sure.
[00:27:55] And then it's just a matter of, okay. What does that mean? Getting into retailers, of course, being seen by more customers. Do I wanna focus on more B2B than B2C? I dunno. I assume B2B is the more Luc. Like deal of it. And I then at that point, of course, I would probably need like a distributor and all that.
[00:28:13] Like, I know the things that I should do, the question is how to do them.
[00:28:17] Azhelle Wade: Keep growing your, visibility and, and your people that are backing you because when you do go to the toy, shows you can come with this audience as a following and say, I've got this number of impressions, or I've got this audience and that will make them be more interested.
[00:28:31] Cuz you keep saying you're a no body, but I have a feeling. It might be how you're presenting yourself an email
[00:28:36] Danielle Murrell Cox: right. Maybe,
[00:28:38] Azhelle Wade: very humble and not like leading with like, has a book with Harper Collins.
[00:28:43] something
[00:28:43] Danielle Murrell Cox: That's also a point
[00:28:45] Azhelle Wade: You know, for you, I mean, since you're already rolling, I would keep, and you have a social media person.
[00:28:52] I would keep rolling into getting you coverage and building your audience even more.
[00:28:55] Do you have their email address as your audience
[00:28:57] Danielle Murrell Cox: not all of them, but I do have like, over, like, I don't have a lot. So like on social media they have, like, let's say between Twitter and Instagram, Facebook, they have like over 8,000, follows. but I only have like, I had about 800 emails and I had about 300 people. And then like now based off of people, cause I've narrowed it, my emails and don't just subscribe.
[00:29:18] And then don't open. I have maybe about 130, 30 who like actually open emails.
[00:29:24] Azhelle Wade: shut up. You need to stop it right now. Hold on. Okay. So number one, we need to be collecting emails. Okay.
[00:29:31] And, and also switching to an ESP email service provider. That's like, reliable. I used to have one called mailer light.
[00:29:37] Not great. I'm like switching over to one called active campaign better, but really a little complicated to set up.
[00:29:43] So you might wanna start with one like called convert kit,
[00:29:45] set that up because if you launch on Kickstarter or something, You can get it funded with your email list. And I think the thing is with your emails, you might be trying to email the way that most brands, email, where they have like a newsletter and like our new product.
[00:29:58] But I think for you, cuz you love Twitter, I think you should email like you tweet. You should email the same style, short little picture story, like email, like you tweet cuz that's what people like from you.
[00:30:13] And it's quick and it's short and it still tells the story of your brand and you, and they'll probably read it.
[00:30:19] And at the, at the bottom of each email, you can have like a big shop now button or sale now button, you know what I mean?
[00:30:23] But short little story tweet,
[00:30:25] email, so they they'll open it.
[00:30:28] Danielle Murrell Cox: That's a really good idea. Yeah. I mean, I, I tried Kickstarter at the beginning, so before I actually got my first batch of toys, to be launched in 2021, I tried Kickstarter twice.
[00:30:37] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, but you're
[00:30:37] not, you have an email list. So what were you
[00:30:39] Danielle Murrell Cox: Right. Well then I didn't, then I did it so that I tried the Kickstarter when I had like pretty much a very little audience, like less than a thousand people of an audience.
[00:30:49] And like, majority of them were following me for me, not inside of the all. So. Probably if I started the Kickstarter now I'd probably get a lot more traction. so definitely something to, to reconsider and rethink. Yeah.
[00:31:00] Azhelle Wade: And the reason I'm saying starter Kickstarter is because toy companies now do pay attention to wait. They had a six figure Kickstarter that was funded. We'll pay attention to that brand, but also you kind of built a license cuz you have this book and you have these dolls. So there's this competition called licensing you, by the Las Vegas licensing expo puts on this competition every year called licensing.
[00:31:20] You. I don't know if it costs to join, but if you win, you get like a bunch of things or at least last year you did, you get access to their educational platform. You get a year, you get a year membership into like their licensing group. You also get like a mentor and not to mention the fact that you're gonna pitch this at a licensing expo, which with a bunch.
[00:31:41] licensing agents, listening to all of your successes, which at that time might be a six-figure Kickstarter. But even if it's not already, I'm sure you have like crazy tweet numbers. You have a lot of followers. And I was at that pitch event. this past year, one of my students won for the character and animation portion, but
[00:31:58] another woman won for.
[00:32:01] Who won for like the product, I think portion, she had like a million follows on what was it like Giffy, like, so it's like,
[00:32:10] she didn't have, I mean, yeah, but from Giffy, it wasn't
[00:32:13] like anything else, you know, but she had a great idea. And it's a real good kickstart and boost. So I think you could go two ways.
[00:32:20] You could go to a show like Astra, American specialty toy retailing association, you could go to a show like that. You could partner with a sales rep, they can help get your, you won't have to do all the work. Then they can like sell your idea to all these little stores, right.
[00:32:34] Or you could go the route where you try to license out your IP. So like all your illustrations and your drawings, cuz you have a following. and you go to licensing expo and other people that wanna create like maybe notebooks or sketch pads or something. maybe they wanna make vinyl dolls and they can make it on their dime.
[00:32:50] Use your artwork, pay you a fee. Like that's a whole other, you got two ways you could go with this.
[00:32:56] So I would focus for right now building that audience, because at keep you you've already got such momentum. Like just like keep
[00:33:05] going.
[00:33:05] Yeah.
[00:33:06] Danielle Murrell Cox: Okay. I mean, I appreciate that. That's amazing. Thank you.
[00:33:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's gonna be great. So I'm gonna see you at Astra next year. You missed a really good one this year. It was really good. Like we were at long beach. It was amazing. Yeah. I'm a board member of Astra, so I'm gonna push Astra real hard, but but so, you know, disclaimer,
[00:33:27] Danielle Murrell Cox: Does it change like location, like different cities every year.
[00:33:31] Azhelle Wade: it does this I don't know if I'm allowed to say what the next one is, so I won't just yet, but it's the only trade show I know of that changes location every year.
[00:33:38] They're actually gonna have an Astra toy boat. If you're interested. Anyway, we're getting off track.
[00:33:43] Let's go back into the interview.
[00:33:45] Danielle Murrell Cox: Okay.
[00:33:46] Azhelle Wade: we're going, we're getting way off track, but I just wanna see you at a toy show. Your product is ready.
[00:33:52] Danielle Murrell Cox: I love that. I'd absolutely love that.
[00:33:55] Azhelle Wade: You were ready. Okay. Well actually we had, we had look at your pricing. We had look at your pricing, but I think you're ready,
[00:34:00] Danielle Murrell Cox: Probably,
[00:34:01] Azhelle Wade: Okay. okay.
[00:34:02] Danielle Murrell Cox: it's because I can't get like thousands of dollars made, so my pricing is a little higher than I'd like it to be, but yeah.
[00:34:08] Azhelle Wade: yeah. And as soon as you can get that big order, then you can get those thousands of dollars made. But a lot of people do take a lot of upfront risk and they make it and they try to sell it. So
[00:34:16] Danielle Murrell Cox: Mm-hmm
[00:34:17] Azhelle Wade: my, one of my questions for you was how, how do you fund your doll line? Is it your nine to.
[00:34:23] Danielle Murrell Cox: Well, my five is my freelancing , which is it's sporadic. It's like, yeah, it's like up, up and down. So it's not like I have consistent revenue. Like I do have some retainers with like, I also have bills to pay. So it comes from self, self funding and credit cards.
[00:34:38] To be quite honest with you. Yeah. Credit cards and, and self-funding yeah.
[00:34:43] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. You know, it's hard being an entrepreneur. Nobody tells you
[00:34:45] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. It is. It really is.
[00:34:49] Azhelle Wade: it's so hard.
[00:34:50] Danielle Murrell Cox: like, yes, there are great moments, but like there's a lot of behind the scenes that is like taxing because of course it's just you. So it's like, you almost take it physically sometimes and personally, so yeah, it it's, it's very hard.
[00:35:03] Azhelle Wade: So the hardest part for me is like, when you hire people, it's like, yay, happy day. And then every month you're like, oh, I gotta hustle. Like I
[00:35:12] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. I gotta pay them.
[00:35:13] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Yes. So you're like, all
[00:35:18] right, what
[00:35:18] Danielle Murrell Cox: takes a little fire under you, right?
[00:35:20] Like,
[00:35:21] Azhelle Wade: does. This is what I imagine. It's like to have kids
[00:35:25] Danielle Murrell Cox: I assume so too. I don't have kids yet either. So I'm like, I assume so. Cause it's like, dang, I gotta wake up every morning and like help you.
[00:35:31] So it's like, yeah,
[00:35:33] Azhelle Wade: this is them. Sure. It's exactly like this. Me and Danielle are It's exactly like this. This is all it is.
[00:35:39] Danielle Murrell Cox: We're
[00:35:40] Azhelle Wade: We have no reference, please. Moms don't hate us. We don't know we don't know.
[00:35:46] With Zuri and Dre, was your goal to make people feel like comfortable with their hair and not feel weird about it when you made them look the way that
[00:35:55] Danielle Murrell Cox: mean, I wanted to make sure that they had like natural looking hair in the sense of, of course it's their plus. So it can't be physically and it can't touch or look and feel like natural hair, but
[00:36:05] the style and the aesthetic and the outlines of the shape look and resemble natural hair. because like, when I started my natural hair journey, like years ago, when I was like loose, natural, it was huge for me.
[00:36:15] Like I had no idea what I was doing. I just know, I didn't wanna put. The relaxer in my hair to make my
[00:36:20] hair straight, the chemicals to make your hair straight. I didn't wanna do that anymore. and then I wanted to handle my own hair as a grower, my head. And that's, that's a full time job all on its own, which is why I decided to go dreadlock eventually, because to time for that,
[00:36:33] but it was, it was, it was a good experience.
[00:36:36] It was a stressful experience, but it was like an eye-opening experience. I didn't like my hair for reasons that I didn't even create, like, the reason why I didn't like my hair wasn't because of me not because I just woke and said, I hate my hair. It was because of what I was told people, questioning things, people disagreeing with things or just saying things that maybe weren't directed me.
[00:36:57] But I heard it and it made me second guess myself or because my mom is black, but lighter than me, like people commented on my skin and said I was adopted just, we weren't the same shade of black,
[00:37:08] like all these things, which is why I wanted to make sure that they were different shades of.
[00:37:12] Black in the dolls.
[00:37:14] because not only is it just based off of a personal experience, but it's all, that's what we see out there. Like not everyone looks the same and we need to be able to see that in more than just of course, TV and billboards. We need to see it in your everyday life. Right. And all the
[00:37:26] stuff that kids and adults play with and touch.
[00:37:30] Yeah, it's, it's cemented in so many things, whether personal or not majority lets honest is personal, but I wanted to just show people and show kids that like the way your hair is, is beautiful. And if she can have hair like this, like it's okay for you to have hair like this and a huge part of what I do for you, which I've only realized as I've been doing it is like, these are things I wish I had as kids.
[00:37:51] These are things I wish I had. I wouldn't have wanted to put the chemicals in my hair regardless of my. Literally adoring me and adoring my sister and loving us like to no end saying we're beautiful. All the great things that you should hear. I didn't believe her. Cause that's mom, mom is supposed say listen to the people.
[00:38:09] I was that like her? No. So why is her no. So big and stuff like that. You know, I
[00:38:14] Azhelle Wade: yeah.
[00:38:15] Danielle Murrell Cox: just wanted kids and adults cuz adults by my choice too. I wanted them to feel okay with being. And being them also includes your hair because that's how your hair grows out of your head.
[00:38:26] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I love that. And I too, I'm like, you're like my best friend now because I also had, had the experience where I decided I don't wanna relax my hair anymore.
[00:38:35] Danielle Murrell Cox: So, yeah. I love my
[00:38:37] hair, but it needs to be access
[00:38:39] Azhelle Wade: yeah, it needs to be accessible.
[00:38:42] Okay. All right, I've gotta, we're gonna wrap this up. Closing questions. what is the best piece of advice that you received since you started this toy company of yours?
[00:38:51] Danielle Murrell Cox: Keep going cause there, like, I mean, there are a lot of times where I thought I was gonna quit. I'm not gonna lie because I, again, I'm very open. So like I'm an open book and I think it's a good thing and a bad thing, but I think it's a good thing just for other people who wanna like freelance or start a business or whatever to realize, like it's not all happiness and sunshine and bring those and butterflies.
[00:39:12] There are moments where it's not okay. It's dark. There are moments when you're crying in the corner sometimes to just like, I use all my savings into creating a doll, like, and is it gonna work? I don't know. So , I think the best advice I've gotten is keep going. Cause it it's doing something like when I get those videos of kids like holding on the and squeezing them, or literally I hear the kids in the video say like, mommy, they have my hair.
[00:39:37] Like I could shed it here every time I see a video like that. But of course, like you don't focus on that all the time and there's moments where I'm just like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? And so keep going has definitely been the biggest for me.
[00:39:49] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. So I have a testimonials page on my website and whenever I wanna give up, I like read it.
[00:39:54] Danielle Murrell Cox: Oh, yeah, that's good.
[00:39:56] That's really good.
[00:39:57] Azhelle Wade: up like a page on your site, so you can just go back to it whenever you feel like
[00:40:02] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah. That's a good idea.
[00:40:04] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, man, it's hard out here.
[00:40:06] Danielle Murrell Cox: Mm-hmm it is. It really is. And then you add a pandemic and probably like. I inflation with oh, anyways. Life's of mess
[00:40:16] and it's hard out here, so
[00:40:19] Azhelle Wade: it's okay. okay.
[00:40:21] Danielle Murrell Cox: I,
[00:40:22] Azhelle Wade: I know, right. this is one of my favorite interviews. Thank you. Okay. what toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:40:36] Danielle Murrell Cox: okay. So. I had a few favorites, but the one that keeps coming back is poly pocket. But like the old school poly pocket that were like the size of like your fingernail, like super tiny. Right. And like, I had like all the little houses and stuff that looked like a shell that you opened up and like they had their circular feet and they popped into a spot.
[00:40:56] Like that's where they just stayed, say poly pockets, but like the OG poly pockets that were very tiny, not the new one.
[00:41:03] Azhelle Wade: I that's. Oh, my you're literally me. You are me. You are me. I'm like, we are the same person, literally everything you said about hair, everything you said about poly pockets. I have said on a podcast, like almost word for word, literally like, yes, I agree. I support this and I can't wait. So now I'm starting to do reviews of people's favorite toy that blew their mind so I can wait.
[00:41:29] Thank you,
[00:41:30] Danielle Murrell Cox: Yeah.
[00:41:31] Yeah. do do polyp pockets for sure. I mean, I have other favorites too, like
[00:41:36] Azhelle Wade: Don't worry
[00:41:36] Danielle Murrell Cox: Barbies
[00:41:37] Azhelle Wade: We don't need to know
[00:41:38] Danielle Murrell Cox: like Tomagotchi Tomagotchi is also very high up there too. So Tom, like the OG Tomago that was like green screen and black and like.
[00:41:46] Yeah, those ones too are definitely high up there, but I was also the artsy kids.
[00:41:51] So like sometimes it wasn't necessarily those toys. It was like those art kids, you know, the kids that they, well, maybe not everyone else, but like you'd them off the
[00:42:00] Azhelle Wade: I know. And then it was the case and you open it with all the
[00:42:05] Danielle Murrell Cox: two. So like, those are my top three, but definitely poly pockets are up there.
[00:42:09] Azhelle Wade: You're amazing. I love this.
[00:42:11] Alright finally, where can people find more about you and Zuri and Dre your doll line?
[00:42:17] Danielle Murrell Cox: So me specifically, you can search my name, which is Dega me Cox, D a N I E L L E M U R R E L L C O X. Or you can make it easier for yourself and just search up my handle, which is D M C O XCore. And that's on Twitter. That's on Instagram. I'm on two and that's the thing that I'm doing. and so yeah, you could find me DM.
[00:42:39] Or for the dolls, you could just search up their name, which is, and so, and they're on Twitter, have their, their.
[00:42:48] Azhelle Wade: They have they, have a Twitter. Oh, I can't wait to see what they think about hold. I'm gonna follow them. Oh my God. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. It was
[00:43:03] Danielle Murrell Cox: Thank you for having me. Yeah. This is amazing. Like again, fan girl, whole Booker moment. Super excited. So happy.
[00:43:12] Azhelle Wade: Have a great day, Danielle.
[00:43:14] Danielle Murrell Cox: Thank you have a good one. Thanks for having me.
[00:43:17] Azhelle Wade: Well, there you have at toy people my interview with Danielle Murrell Cox. As you could hear, we had a great time on our talk. I hope you enjoyed the little mini coaching session that Danielle got from me, kind of impromptu, but a lot of fun, but also I hope you learned what happens when you create an IP or product that goes viral. Business opportunities might come to you, but it's really what you make of it. Danielle really engaged with her community online and was able to build plush toy products that were essentially designed by her community name and all. So once the products were out, her community online was there to support their release and to purchase that product. I hope in this episode, I drove home the importance of an email list.
[00:44:06] And further, I should say the importance of having an SMS list as well, which means a text messaging list. Now, if you love this podcast and you haven't already done so please leave a review. I get a notification on my phone, anytime that a new review is put in and it puts a huge smile on my face to see that this podcast is making an impact on you and your toy business or your toy career. So please leave that rating and review if you love this podcast. As always, thank you so much for being here with me today I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week. I'll see you later toy people.
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