Episode #196: Instant Insights Into The Toy Industry Uncovered at CHITAG Part 2 of 2
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Listen in as The Toy Coach conducts several mini interviews for a deep dive into the heart of toy innovation at CHITAG, part of the People of Play Week and Innovation Conference. Episode 196 offers a unique blend of playful interviews and insightful discussions with industry innovators.
In this episode, we feature a dynamic duo, Michael and Melissa Giles, founders of Chiki Chaka, who reveal the secrets behind creating a game that's as simple as it is engaging, proving that the essence of play lies in joy, not complexity. They share their journey of starting a toy business, offering invaluable lessons for aspiring creators. But that's just the beginning! We also converse with Noel from Cut.com, exploring how a media company successfully ventured into game development by listening to their audience. And don't miss insights from Julian from Asmodee, who sheds light on the intricacies of marketing and distribution in the toy world.
🎲 Featured Interviews:
Michael and Melissa Giles: Discover the story behind Chiki Chaka, a dynamic open play game that's revolutionizing kids' playtime. With their game just three months into the market, the Giles share their fresh experiences in the toy industry, offering valuable insights for new and aspiring toy creators.
Noel from Cut.com: Dive into the intersection of media and toy invention with Noel from the acclaimed media company, Cut. Explore how they're transforming viewer demands into engaging games, and learn about their successful journey from YouTube to retail shelves.
Julian from Asmodee: Get an in-depth look at marketing strategies in the toy and game industry with Julian. His journey from cruise director to head of US distribution for Asmodee offers a unique perspective on game marketing, sales, and the importance of customer engagement.
🏗️ Interactive Format:
Engaging in a creative challenge, Azhelle and her guests build towers while discussing the ins and outs of toy invention, making for a playful and informative listening experience.
🔍 Key Takeaways:
The importance of play and movement in children's toys.
Strategies for marketing in the toy industry, even with limited resources.
Insights into retail strategies for toy and game manufacturers.
🔗 Resources:
For additional resources, links, and a visual experience of the interviews, visit thetoycoach.com/196 and check out our YouTube channel for the full video at youtube.com/TheToyCoach.
Tune in to this episode for a playful yet profound look at toy invention, and join our community of toy enthusiasts and creators. Don't forget to leave a review and share your thoughts with us!
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This episode is brought to you by People of Play and CHITAG! Thank you for being a sponsor!
Learn more about CHITAG by visiting chitag.com
Learn more about People of Play by visiting peopleofplay.com
Learn more about CUT Media at https://www.cut.com/
Learn more about Asmodee at https://corporate.asmodee.com/
Watch these interviews on YouTube.
Check out The Toy Coach Gift Guide: https://thetoycoach.com/gift
Interested in a LIVE AI corporate training for your company? Click here for details.
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You are listening to Making It in the Toy Industry, episode number 📍 196. Hey there toy people, Ajele Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the toy industry.
This is a weekly podcast, and today's episode is sponsored by People of Play. People of Play is where you can stay up to date with the latest news on toys and games.
You can be the first to hear about new releases. If you are a consumer, you can meet the inventors behind your favorite toys and games, but it is also a networking hub for toy industry executives. So check out peopleofplay. com.
Now if you were here for last week's episode, you already know the deal for this week.
We are listening to interviews conducted at ChiTag, which was a part of the People of Play Week and Innovation Conference. During these interviews, I played a game. Called Buildsy with my guest and we were stacking blocks and having fun while I'm asking them interview questions. I hope you enjoy these interviews and without further ado, let's listen in.
My first interview is with Michael and Melissa Giles, the founders of Chiki Chaka, a fun open play game for kids, and we have a fun interview where they describe what it's like to be a new toy business just three months old.
. I'm here with Mike and Melissa Giles from Chick Chaka, let's learn a little bit about this toy. What is this toy? Tell us a little bit about it.
It's a back to basics kids toy.
It's to get them going, get them moving, get the kids up, get them off the couch, you know, just have some fun. Very simple, very easy. We play it with little tiny kids. My grandparents, or my parents are here, they're grandparents age. They can play it.
So how do you play? You take the cube, you
roll it, and then whatever animal appears is the animal that the kids all imitate. When they rolled Chicka Chacka,
everybody yells. Got to do it with us. Ready? Okay. Chicka Chacka,
Chicka Chacka. Yo, yo, yo.
Chicka Chacka, Chicka Chacka. Go, go,
go. And then we hop around it. And then everybody
dances. And so they can dance any way they want. And so the person. That rolls three Chicka Chocka's
first wins. You don't have to. You don't have to.
It can be just free
play as well. I love that.
We've found out, like, just through this adventure here in Chicago, we found out it's great for like, you know, birthday parties, for, play dates.
Yeah. And then, um, a lot of teachers. And people have been very interested in taking it for a break for their kid. That makes a lot of sense. We've got a, we've got somebody who's a physical therapist, a child psychologist kind of thing. She's gonna use it in her practice, get the kids moving, that
kind of thing.
What is the MSRP on it?
The MSRP is $20 on the website right now. Which is the only place you can get it. Chick chaka toy.com. Okay.
Chick chaka toy.com. $20 MSRP. You have, they're in stock. Right now, yes, they are in stock,
but it's limited supply.
We've been in business basically two days. We sold our first game yesterday.
That is a perfect segue to the beginning questions I wanna ask. Okay, so let's get started with this interview. Let me explain to you the process of the interview. So throughout the interview, we are gonna be building towers with these building blocks here.
Okay? We are gonna follow whatever tower we pull from this card deck, okay? The goal is to be the first person to complete the tower. I'm ready for this. You each create your own tower. I'm creating a tower and it's us. Whoever completes a tower first win. There's three rounds. So best two out of three and it will be three rounds of questions. First round of question, I'm going to ask about your experience in the toy industry. Second, we're going to give advice for other people who want to do what you're doing.
Third round, we're going to talk about shy tag. Oh, you ready? Pick a card. Okay. Once he gets to pick. Yes. So this is, stop looking at it. This is what we're going to build. Ready and go. Okay. So how long have you guys been in the toy industry? Three months, three months. We
just started this recently because, uh, actually I made this game up for my kids when they were little and, uh, we played it with their friends and we had lots of, no, no, you're doing your own.
Oh, you can't cheat. We're not
playing against her. You're playing against me. No,
you're playing. I won.
Okay, we're gonna have to check the tape. We don't know who got that point. Oh, I also should have been teaming up against
her.
Everybody gets Their own tower. Everybody gets around own tower. That was great. Uh, round one. Let's, I'm gonna do it again. Let's move on to our round two note. Look. My turn.
This one. Okay. So looking at it, this is what we're gonna build next. Ready? Set. So what advice would you give.
for somebody who has an idea for a toy or game and is considering developing it.
I would say my advice would be to feel the fear and do it anyway. Okay. We were so out of our element in doing this. We just have different backgrounds that you would not say jibes with toys, at least mine.
Anyway, I'm in kind of a more business, uh, more risk management. Uh, access. It's really difficult, uh, kind of situation. And so I was afraid of not knowing enough to really move forward with it. And I'm also the type of person that I hate failure. And so I thought, well, if I don't try, then I can't fail. Oh my
gosh.
Kind of like this. My
advice, do it. I say, just go for it. Do it. I'll tell you what we've met. People here that have done it like, like, you know, they're coming up with toys. You're coming up with ideas. They're showing up.
You just got to get out and do it. Make this thing. We made this thing. You know, we had, I approached the local sewing club at one point to see if they would help us make them. Um, so we have some real rudimentary product. This one's actually manufactured. But, um, you know, just to get the idea out and.
So you did create at one point an MVP of your product, which was just a minimum viable product version, which maybe you had a local seamstress to just something you could test and see if it works. We would have
come here to both with, you know, without any pre planning, we would have brought something like that.
Just like a prototype, right? A prototype. Prototype. And that's why shy takes great because for all these new inventors, you can come here Get a lot of industry information. I mean, I tell you, we met the guy that put together Tickle Me Elmo. I mean, come on. You did. You know,
everybody's here. This is a great segue to our phase three.
So let's pick our last card. Okay. Here we go. Yeah. Thank you. This is what we're going to be building. Are you? Look at him. Look at his face. I'm ready. He's like progressive.
Ready?
Okay. Ready? Yeah. Set. Go. Yeah. Go. Alright. Okay. All right. So shy tag. Do you think this is a good event for people just starting out in the toy industry like yourself?
Absolutely. Uh, we, like I said, we came in just really not knowing a whole heck of a lot. And then now here we are several days later and I feel like, wow, we can do anything. We've got these people who have done what we want to do for years. They're at different phases of their careers, and they're all giving us this great advice.
You know what?
I'm done with you. I'm done. I'm not inviting you anymore.
I know, right? I saw him two
handing it, and I was like, oh, no. And look,
It's really ironic about all of this is that here we are toy makers.
Yeah. I don't like to play games because
this is, this is what he does. This is energy. I got to win, but I know
she was answering, but let's talk a
little bit more about it too.
Okay. Here's what I've learned from this. This experience is that getting, we've come here, we've learned everything from like marketing ideas.
We have some variations We've been able to talk to a lot of people. We've learned about different types of distribution. So the business side, right? But then from the creative side, you know, everybody's receptive to the game, the design, the idea, but they're like, well, maybe you could do a little bit farther this way.
Maybe you could change it this way, that way. I would say, I would tell any, any aspiring company inventor, whatever, check this out. I think this is fantastic. The people that run this show are great. Mary Cousin. I didn't know if I was supposed to plug her.
I was going to plug Mary Cousin. Mary sponsors this. So Mary. Come. She sponsors this interview right here.
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Mary. We love Mary. Mary Cousins.
Get ahold of her. The thing with this three months ago, we didn't have a company. This is a three month old company. We got a booth.
Have you sold product here at the show? We sold our very first one yesterday morning.
I think that what it is, the primary, The primary goal for this is don't get your head wrapped around how many you're going to sell. Get your head wrapped around getting your brand out. Yeah. Yeah. People buy from those.
They like knowing trust. Yeah. People might like us. They don't know us and they don't trust us yet
because you've literally been around three months. Right. She's a smart one, right? So this is,
this is why I say, you know, you put your heart into it, you sell it, you explain it, explain the concept and just.
It's just keep in touch with your market. Listen to what people are saying about this is what my kid, this is what my kid does. This is what my kid does. Tie it to your product. Is this the best product for the person who's talking to you? Just come at it with love and the rest will fall
into place. And okay.
I want to close this with one more question for you to earlier, you build another thing while we know. There's no more. This is phase three. It's done. Okay. You just won. You already won. Okay. You won three out of three. He wants to drive the nail into the coffin. Yeah, he does. Yeah. So earlier today, you guys were on stage, on the stage of the Chicago Toy and Game Fair, and you were playing your game.
So that was an incredible marketing opportunity. Can you just share how you got that and how somebody else could get an opportunity like that if they were going to come to the show next year?
That was something that I set up through Mary. And Mary was gracious enough to say to us, Hey, you've got Somebody who couldn't fill their slot and we said, Hey, we'll give it a try.
Feel the fear, do it anyway. What was it exactly? And it was just a giant Chicka Chaka game. So we took our prototype of this one. We called all the kids in the area to the area and we invite them on stage and We had to throw the cube out and just start imitating and we had the video playing and the song and they
just had a ball.
And that's the thing, that's the thing, so you gotta be able to be ready to get out of your comfort zone. And that's the thing, so many people, you know, you're scared to go to the interview, you're scared to go to the job, you're scared to be a YouTuber, you know, whatever, you know. And, and for us, getting up there, it was a little nerve wracking because we had nothing planned, right?
Yeah. And so we just got up
there. We did great. So I would also say for people like if you're attending a toy trade show, maybe reach out to the organizer and say, Hey, if, if there are any available slots or empty slots in your presentations, let me know. Cause I'm open and excited to do a demo of my product.
If that's a possibility, not all shows will have that flexibility, but you'll never know unless you ask. Right. And if we could do
it again, we actually asked for a second slot, but they're fooled.
Absolutely. And something else I would say too about these types of shows, take advantage of the, the resources that they give you a hundred percent.
Like
what? We looked at the list of people that were doing one on one meetings and we were like just trying to figure out, well, who should we meet with?
And Mary said, meet with everybody. And We did, and we learned so much about things that we didn't even know we should care about.
We did. Yeah, we met with people we didn't even think
we needed to meet with, and it worked. And they were like, wow.
Some of the best stuff. So you just do
everything. And if you do everything, you're never going to walk away and say, oh, I shouldn't have done that.
That was a waste of time. You'll never think
it's
a waste of time. But I'm that guy at the buffet, you know, if I don't eat a lot, if I don't take it all, I feel like I didn't get my money's worth, so. I told you, I'm getting my money's worth, man. Yeah. I'll tell you
what, it's worth it.
Take some home. Oh my gosh. Mike and Melissa, this was a great interview. I didn't think I was going to lose this one, but I guess you lost. I lost real bad. Next time I'm going to make him do two builds while we do one. I know, right? Right. This is fun. I don't know whose game this is, but I'm digging it.
I would tell you, but they're not yet a sponsor. So if they become a sponsor, I'll say their name. Okay. THank you guys so much and good luck. I know you got to get back to your booth. I hope you have an exciting rest of your day. I hope you get some more sales in. You are the greatest.
To grab the links mentioned in that mini to grab the links mentioned in that mini interview. Head over to the toy coach.com/ 1 9 6. If you want to watch all the drama that unfolded in the video, then go over to youtube.com/the Toy Coach. Subscribe to my YouTube channel and then you'll be notified when the video becomes available for this interview.
Next up, we have an interview with Noel from. Cut.
Hello, friend. Thanks so much for doing this interview here. Oh, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I'm so happy to talk. Okay, so, Noel, you work for The Cut, which... I work for Cut. Oh, I'm sorry. Cut. com, yes. Also known as Watch Cut. Watch Cut. So, Noel, you work for Cut...
So, I'm here with Noel Cut, which is not a games company. You're actually a media company. We are a media company. So, today we are going to be going through three phases of an interview.
Okay? And first phase, we're going to try to build a tower. And then as we're building that tower, I'm going to be asking you questions about yourself and your experience in the industry. Second phase, we're going to build another tower. And then I'm going to be asking you to give advice for people that want to be like you.
And then third phase, we're going to be... talking about the Chicago Toy and Game Fair, how it's been for you, why it might be beneficial for people like you or companies like yours. So let's dive in. We're going to try to see best two out of three. Okay. Okay. So pick right in here. Okay. Okay. Okay. So we are going to be building. This. Ready, set, go! Noel, how long have you worked in the toy
industry?
I've been in the toy industry since about 2009. I started with shilling toys right out of college. And what did you do for them? For them, I started off as a sales associate, and then I moved into a national account manager role a little bit later.
And what are you doing now for CUT? So
for CUT, I'm in charge of trying to get us into some great retailers. And what we're really trying to do is You know, we've been selling direct to consumer for the past few years, um, and now we're really trying to move more into retail stores. Um, yeah, and so, you know, we start the last two years, we've started rolling out some better retailers, some bigger retailers, uh, you know, specialty stores as well as, you know, we're, we have our biggest game truth or drink is currently in target.
So why would a brand that makes media want to create games in the first place?
You know, um, I don't even know if it was us that wanted the games or if it was our Fans that demanded we make the games.
What game did they I One
round one. Oh, you're so good. You're so good.
But what, what game did your fans demand that you made?
Our
original game was called Fear Pong. So what we would do is we essentially make game shows on YouTube and all of our fans started demanding that we make it for them. So they had, they could stop making it themselves at home. And so in that original game, it's just like a classic game of beer pong, except when you throw it, throw it, and you get into a cup.
The person who has had the cup hit can pull out a coaster and. Has a dare such as do the chicken dance or have your friends eulogize you for one minute while you don't react. And you know, if you do that, you get to put the cup back in the game for a second chance. And what it does, it's really funny to watch and play.
It's also a lot more fun at a party when you see a bunch of people doing silly things versus just playing some classic, that was our original
So then they started rolling out games every once in a while, I guess, based on what The viewers wanted absolutely.
But now why the move into retail? Why the retail move? I
think our fans are just looking for a place to, you know, get, get the games. And also, you know, with a lot of retailers support and those partnerships, it helps us stay on top of different trends.
It also just helps us get distribution a lot more places and really get our games from, you know, our followers to the general public that may have not stumbled upon us on YouTube at first. Obviously people under 30, they, you know, they live on YouTube. They live on TikTok, so they might know our items, whereas some other people, you know, they might not.
They might not know who Cut is yet. And tell
us a little bit about
Cut. So Cut, we're the conversation company. We're all about, having those tough conversations that you generally don't want to have. Our biggest series is called Truth or Drink, and essentially you ask someone a question, if they don't answer it, they have to take a shot.
And it's really about just forcing those conversations amongst people. You know, that's what we're all about, being taboo, maybe a little bit cringe, um, but really just, you know, bringing people together. What's your biggest platform? Our biggest platform is definitely YouTube combined. We probably have somewhere in the range of 18 or 19 million followers on YouTube.
Um, and then, you know, we're also TikTok's number one media brand for user engagement. So we're growing very fast on TikTok. We've only had it a couple of years, but I think we're at about 2. 6 or 2. 7 million followers there now.
Can you tell me a little bit about the history? Who started Cut? You
know, the Cut was started by a group of friends.
Um, they had originally had a different name. It was called Super Frog Saves
Tokyo.
Eventually, they had a hit with a YouTube video called strange buds and what it was, it was grandmothers smoking marijuana together.
We're based in Seattle. Marijuana was legal. Nothing illegal happening. Timing. Um, we shot an episode, grandmother smoked marijuana. It got picked up by, you know, Buzzfeed and the today's show and all these places started running with it. And you know, from that, we kind of launched into making all these other great videos.
Thank you for the history. Let's move on to round two. We are going to be building this.
Ready, set, go. Okay. So, if somebody Somebody wants to work for a media company. How would you suggest they get
started? If you want to work for Cut, I would suggest that you, uh, head to our website, check out current career openings. You know, we're always looking for good people.
What's the website? Cut. com? Just cut. com. C H E. com. Awesome. You can also, if you want to, uh, you know, not work for us full time, but maybe you want to be in a video and have a few million views, you can always go to our casting and just sign up for casting emails. We're, we're always looking for people. You know, sometimes we're just looking for.
Anybody who wants to be in a video other times we like to play on very specific things. So we might be looking for something such as, you know, maybe we're looking for ladies over 50 or maybe we're looking for gay dads. It's something very specific. So sometimes it can be open to anybody.
Other times looking for very specific people to get on and tell their stories. Part of being cut is telling, you know, giving platforms to people that generally don't have as much of a chance to tell their stories. That's another angle that we go with. That's
great. All right. We have a great studio in Seattle. Everybody likes to hang out
at. You know, I've never been to Seattle.
Beautiful city. Never been the Emerald City. Oh my God. I got
one. Let's Let's see what happens in the final round. Perfect timing for our final round. All right, here we go. This one we're going to build for the final round.
Ready, set, go. Ooh, okay. Oh man, I'm not liking the look of this. I'm not liking the look of this. So tell us a little bit about your experience at ChiTag. Have you been here before? You
know, I've Um, a good friend of mine, uh, Steve Starobinsky, the kid at heart, he could not stop talking about it, how great it was, so I figured I had to come check it out.
So what do you
think? You know, I think it's been pretty great. Our games are a little bit older, most of our games are a little bit older than a lot of the kids here. Um, but I think it's a pretty amazing event so far, what I've been seeing from everybody. I was across, oh no! I was across. tournament. That was, uh, watching all those kids c been pretty great. We hav we've been showing everyb and cents. And so essentia in this game is you have your family about financia
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm it. Thank you. I needed t interview. They were aggr
Thank you. All right. Continue your story. So you like ChiTag?
I love ChiTag. it's been great. You know, we've been showing a lot of people, a lot of fun, different games. We didn't bring anything to sell, so we gave some kind of stuff away. I think next year we'll probably bring some things that will, you know, do some more direct to consumer selling as well.
Perhaps even with a number of children here, maybe set up a film studio, do some kind of filming for our, we, in addition to CUT, C U T, which is an adult channel, you should not watch if you're under 18, if you're, uh, Disclaimer. Disclaimer, we also have a channel called Hiho Kids, and it's about teaching empathy through play.
It's all about introducing kids to various cultures at a very young age, because nothing is weird if you grew up with it. It's only weird if you grow up not being exposed. So we're also looking to expand into that market as well, so you never know. We'll see what our video
team says. And tell me, what is your position at CUT?
What are you called? I'm
the sales manager for games. Sales manager for games. So I do all the wholesale, all the
wholesale for games. Well, it was a pleasure chatting with you. I'm happy that you're at the Chicago Toy and Game Fair, and even happier that you're going to return. Thank you. next year.
Absolutely. Next year I'm gonna be practicing. I
might have to add it. We might have to do the challenging the challenge. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you for having me.
Hope you enjoyed that interview with Noel and maybe you'll be heading over to cut. com to sign up for their casting opportunities or even job opportunities. Our final mini interview today is with Julian from AsmoDay and in this interview we dive into marketing planning. Again, if you want any of the links from today's episode, head over to thetoycoach. com forward slash one nine six.
Julian, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so excited. My first time. You are joining us for a fun little game, fun little interview. game.
So here's how it works. We're going to be trying to build these towers. But we're going to be doing this while we're going through the interview, racing to see who can be the First to finish the tower. We're going to be doing three rounds of questions as we do those three tower builds, let's get started. Let's do it. How long have you been working in the toy industry? Well, I started technically around 2009.
Okay. But that's where I was actually in the toy industry. I really started working in games in the early nineties. When I was a cruise director and we used games that we made up on board the ship to make sure the guests had a good time in rainy weather. So even though it might be technically that I didn't join the game industry till around 2009, I actually have been playing games at work since around 1991. So a long time playing games and working games. And you currently work at Asmodee. I currently work at Asmodee.
And I pronounced it right. You did. Yes. It's not as Modi. It's not as Modi. No, it's not Asmo D but it is Asma Day. Asma Day. And it is a French company. Yeah. And it was founded in, uh, almost 30 years ago next year, so. Oh, wow. But I have a milestone too.
Is that on the seventh, which is Tuesday is my one year anniversary. So what do you do at Asthma Day? Uh, right now I am the. Head of what we call US distribution.
Okay. That encompasses everything around getting the games into the stores and sold through. Okay. So basically we buy finished product and I buy finished product from some of our internal game design studios. Uhhuh, I buy finished product from external game design studios, uhhuh. And we market it, we sell it, we buy it, and then we, uh, you know, for the, for our to fulfill our orders and then we ship it out of our warehouse.
So, oh, that's a great, so you, I have, I have a pretty big off. We have about 280 employees between all of Asmodee, North America, and you're managing that. I'm yes. That are under the awful. The four divisions are sales, which is all omni channel sales from Amazon all the way down to specialty and everywhere in between Target and Walmart.
We also have, um, kind of when are you, are you, I did it at
the same time, but I distracted. I was like, yeah, I'm listening. Not really. That was great. We finished our round one. Let's move on to round two. And we haven't approached the topic of sell through on this podcast so I want to talk a little bit more about sell through.
So let's do it. This is the tower that we're going to be building while we talk about sell through. Okay. Ready? Oh boy. Let's get, let's get started. And this at the same, sell through this at the same time. Um, so what is sell through? Let's define it for in case people don't know.
Yeah. Sell through is basically So this is basically, okay, it used to be the job of a person that's selling games wholesale is to sell it into the store. And yay, we're glad we sold that. And then it was on the retailer, Target, Walmart. It was on them to sell the games, put them on sale.
If you need to sell through, it's a partnership now it is a real partnership between the vendor or the manufacturer or the, you know, the, the, the wholesaler and the retailer to ensure sellthrough. So there's, just because we sold this amount of games out the door, doesn't mean. I mean, our job is done and we can go find some more games to sell.
We have to help our partners sell through. So there's marketing activations, there's pricing activations, there's business plans that are made together between the manufacturers and the retailers to ensure a better opportunity, better chance of sell through. What's considered a good sell through? In general, you buy to the, to the amount you anticipate to sell with a little bit extra. Um, right now, I think coming out of covid and all the things that we're facing, I truly think it's probably better right now to leave a little bit on the table sell through everything.
Everybody makes a little more margin than having to buy too much and oversell and then you have to reduce prices and things like that. So that's, that's kind of where everybody's at being a little, probably a little more conservative now is I want to just sell through. I don't want to have a lot of extra and worry about, oh, if I run out, I'd rather run out slightly than have some over that I'm going to have to put on sale later.
Let's talk about these marketing activations how far ahead of those planned and what does that planning process like? Okay. So we know in like a year in advance on most what target's going to take or what Walmart's going to take. So then it's really important. Um, this is, I'm speaking more generally than, than as of today in particular, but once you know what's going in, you also know certain games are going to be like your high impact, uh, key drivers for the year.
So. You. You have a chat with the retailer and say, okay, these are our really important key drivers. We are going to get behind them in some way. Every retailer, every manufacturer gets behind their games in a different way. There's different marketing budgets depending on your size of your company, obviously, that uh, marketing to spend.
So sale ratio is, you know, different for, for every company, but you do have some commitment you need to make and you need to decide you can't market everything, right? There's only so much to go around, but you identify early on and have a good communication with the retailer that this is. going to be your key driver and when you ask the retailer to get behind it and then you put a integrated marketing plan together around it, you don't have to show every detail to the retailer, but it's important to show at least a general plan.
So then at that point, not just the salespeople are involved. We bring in our commercial marketing team, comes in and says, in general, this is what we're doing. And in fact, at the end of a, um, what's really important and I'm starting this now more with, you know, in my time here at Asmodeus to make sure you recap and go, okay, this is what we've done.
Okay. Okay. To show the commitment. So we're building, um, that we're really new in working with, uh, Target and Walmart, I'd say relative to some of our competitors. Right. So we're building that, those, those plans and those relationships up, uh, with an integrated marketing plan around. Because some of the people listening to this podcast tend to be newer in the toy industry.
Let's say, um, a new toy company or brand has three products. What can they do that will actually impress a retailer enough to say this is a marketing plan, you know?
Cause maybe they're thinking like, I don't know if like my Google or Facebook ad spend is enough for them to even care. So I'm not going to even show it to them. I mean the question is how much is enough? Yeah. How much marketing dollars per unit even would be enough for a retailer to even think they're trying, they're making an effort. This is a partnership. See, every time at the top, I get all the way to the top and it falls over.
I have a feeling that my side of the table is slanted. There must be something. It could be. That's probably it. I get it all the way. We can move on to the next one. Let's finish this question. So it's really hard to, um, my opinion is that the less money you have, the more it's important to do conversion marketing.
Okay. Marketing. I think it's a funnel. So the top of the funnel is awareness. Awareness. I love this. I love it. Awareness is very expensive. Especially in the US. Awareness is expensive. Awareness is expensive. And as you go down, the bottom of the funnel is more conversion. So you should list your game on Amazon.
I know that specialty retailers hate to hear that, but it is the endless shelf. You should get some sales and show that you're putting some marketing around there. For specialty though, you go to the trade shows. I highly suggest working with a rep group and the rep group will in effect do some of the marketing too.
They're on the road and they're there to talk about things. It frees you up. So you don't have to do that. The sales. You can be freed up in marketing activations. What trade shows are you going to?
Make sure you're at those consumer, a consumer show. So a good start. Yeah. Consumer shows. Um, I think Gen Con is great cause it's not just, I'm only speaking games here, but it's, I see so many kinds of games at Gen Con now and it's just so like, not just all hobby, not just all role playing games or, or, you know, that type of thing, or even trading card games.
There's family games. There's, there's a whole section at Gen Con for, um, entrepreneurs. What do you think about like localized marketing? So say, you know, you're in a, in a couple of specialty stores in your hometown, cause that's where you just started. Like, what do you think about putting your marketing dollars into like very localized local is neighborhood toy store day, having I think that's incredibly important.
Okay. So conversion marketing. let's go back to that. I know. Yeah. Right. Yeah. At the bottom of the funnel. But we do find if we have lesser of a budget, you've got to spend on your, if you're in on Amazon, you've got to spend on Amazon marketing. It's really important. And I would say awareness marketing is expensive.
The cheapest one right now for Facebook I've seen is video awareness marketing. Oh, that's, yes. Yeah. Right.
So next we are going to move on to phase three and we're going to build this tower. Okay. It's like, why are we doing this? Okay. Ready, set, go. Okay. Um, so for phase three, tell me what, like how you feel about shy tag. Have you been here before? Is this a good show for you? for you. Oh, it's a great show for me. I love this show. I've loved it for many years. I started when I was at funny bone toys.
I've been at Shytank through three I'm here to talk to you about I'm here with three of the four game companies that I've worked at was sitting here with what I worked at. What do you mean? I came here. In fact, I brought your husband to shy tag for the first time he's off camera.
We had a great time and it was down. It was this is this is really nice. So to see, you know all the people that I've seen that I hadn't been back in five years because of Covid. And I went. It's been master. I didn't come because my job was a little bit different, more than marketing side.
But then back here, this is the first again, but my first year here here with our studio, which is Katan. The famous game Catan. We have our sheet mobile. Um, but it's a great way to see the kids and to see how they react to your products and things like that. Um, I would say if you're going to come to shy tag, this is a consumer show.
People come and they, they, they, some of them get a coupon, but some of them spend money to come and play. You need to have an activity for them. Yeah, it shouldn't be thought of like another trade show. Like it's not my come and touch every, if we walk away for 10 minutes right now with these blocks, there will be towers built on this table.
Like this is a play show. You play with it. Play touch and build and I honestly believe it's that it's worth the investment of a giveaway. And I don't mean just a little postcard, a toy that's a finite, we get, we're giving away Catan dice games, which is like Catan meets Yahtzee. We have our entire sheet mobile full of it, but the kids come up, go away with a full complete game.
And you know, some, it's, it's important to give something to the kids for coming out and they get to take something home and remember the day. So that calls back to your initial conversation about marketing, what are we doing for marketing our products? So this show is good for that. Oh, it's great from the consumer consumer level.
Yes. And, and also, you know, we basically are playing a giant Catan dice, but we set out our Catan base game, but also Catan junior, which starts at age six, instead of 10. A lot of the parents that we aren't selling that one today, but a lot of parents are saying, I didn't know there wasn't a junior game. I think I moved the table.
I got distracted. I know that I can build this fast. I feel good. I feel, you know, strong. I'm going to be in the hair. I'm just holding this thing wrong, even though I have a slant on this side. Oh my God. I did that on purpose. No, that's why I love the show. I have every year that I can come. I will be a no brainer for us to participate.
Do you think that this fair has it has a reputation for the game industry, but do you see a big toy presence here this year? Because I sure do. I see a lot of toys. Yeah. I mean. It's a Chicago toy and it is so the game show and I see I think the toys are very easy to play with, right?
Even easier than sitting down for a whole game. We bring the quickest game. So the kids can play. That's smart. You see, even that part, choosing what games you demo, very important. Very smart. Yeah. They need to get a pay. Actually, games are about payoff, right? So I make sure it's a really quick, easy payoff for the kids.
And I have noticed too, that not just like parents with kids are here, a lot of teenagers are here yesterday and it was great to chat Catan with them, you know? So. It's a, it's a, it gets a lot of people coming in who just love games and toys. Yeah.
And you were mentioning earlier that there's parking nearby, which makes it even easier for parents to say, yeah, we can take all of this because we can just go, we're parked in the garage right downstairs. And I Asmodee because that's where our U. S. offices, but the whole city has skywalks because it gets cold, um, in the downtown area.
Yeah. And I love that this here reminds me of Minneapolis. Us because um, there's all those. Oh, look at you . Wait, it did look really good a while ago. . Oh my gosh. Congratulations. You win. Thank you. So how we have them in Minneapolis, they have them here. It's a great thing. No matter what the weather is. Oh. You can park. It's beautiful. There's skywalks from every hotel and every. Parking garage. So it doesn't matter what the weather is as long as you can get here. Yeah, you do not have to worry about your weather.
Yeah, you once you get to this fair, you don't have to leave the area. You don't have to be outside again if you don't want to be. Plenty to do. So if the Chicago weather scaring you off, like don't let it park and stay. Uh huh. That's awesome. Well, Julianne, this was an amazing conversation. I'm so happy to have you on the show.
Thank you so much. It's been a fun, very productive interview, but this was a lot of fun. This was so much fun.
Well, there you have it, Toy People. Those were the last bit of interviews conducted at ChiTag, which was part of the People of Play Innovation Conference and Week. If you want to be a part of this conference next year, maybe learn something from these interviews that you know you want to take advantage of next year, head over to peopleofplay. com or you can reach out to me info at thetoycoach. com and I will point you in the right direction. This is an event you definitely want to be a part of. So get your toy or game idea together and I want to see you there. Before we wrap up today's episode, I want to read this review from Girl Dad Nation. Fun and factual. So glad I came across Ajel's podcast. It's an amazing resource for any entrepreneur interested in getting into the toy industry or someone wanting a behind the scenes look at how our favorite toys and games come to life.
The guests are great and Ajel brings a wealth of knowledge and energy of her own. Highly recommend. Thank you for that review. Now, if you love this podcast and you haven't already left us a review, well, what are you waiting for? Your reviews are what helps me keep motivated to keep coming back week after week with new episodes.
And it also helps other people like you find this podcast. I know you can't keep it a secret much longer. You've got to help people find this podcast. So do me a favor, wherever you're listening. Stop and leave us a review. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one until next week. I'll see you later, 📍 toy people.
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