#230: How She Invented A Plush Toy and Licensed The Idea For Passive Income
Have you ever wondered if it were possible to sell your toy idea instead of the finished product? Today’s podcast episode follows one creator, who does just that.
Today’s guest Joanna Paul, shares her journey of developing Moodles (formerly known as "What's Its Face?"), a patentable plush invention designed to help children understand and express their emotions. From the initial concept inspired by her own experiences as a mom to the challenges of patenting and licensing, Joanna's toy story is a testament to the power of persistence and adaptability in the toy industry.
Throughout the episode, Joanna discusses key aspects of her success, including:
The importance of understanding your strengths and weaknesses as an inventor and entrepreneur
Navigating the complexities of patenting and licensing to protect your intellectual property
Adapting your product based on feedback from buyers and embracing changes for marketability
The emotional rollercoaster of pitching, rejection, and ultimately seeing your toy on store shelves
Joanna's background in branding and design, combined with her personal experiences as a parent, have shaped her approach to toy invention. Her creation, Moodles, not only serves as a fun and engaging toy but also has the potential to make a fundamental impact on childhood development by promoting emotional learning, imagination, and problem-solving skills.
Hit play on this episode to listen in on Joanna’s early days of prototyping and pitching to the exciting moment of finally seeing Moodles available at major retailers like Walmart, Kohl's, and on Amazon.
Episode Cliff Notes
Learn how one mom's experience in the suburbs inspired her to create an emotional learning plush toy. [05:10]
Discover how a toy with six different facial expressions can help kids learn about emotions and express themselves without electronics. [03:38]
Find out how persistence and facing legal challenges led to the success of Moodles, a toy that became particularly relevant during the COVID-19 pandemic when childhood mental health problems were on the rise. [09:54]
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Shop Moodles now at Walmart, Kohl’s, orAmazon
Connect with Joanna Paul on LinkedIn
Click here to learn more about Toy Creators Academy which Joanna mentioned helped her on her journey. -
Jingle [00:00:08]:
Welcome to making it in the toy industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your host, Ajel Wade. Well, hey there, toy people. If you're thinking this doesn't sound like a gelatinous, you'd be right. It's Virginia. And once again, I've managed to sneak into Aijal's podcasting chair to bring you another special episode of making it in the toy industry. This week, I had the privilege of interviewing yet another toy creators Academy course graduate, which, as an aspiring toy creator myself, was both fascinating and enthralling. I got to ask them questions like, what was their professional background before they dipped a toe into the toy industry? What was the product or brand that they developed along the way? And also, I quizzed them on what's next for them in their toy creators journey now that they've finished the course.
Jingle [00:01:05]:
So join us as we showcase yet another toy Creators Academy success story. I'm so excited to share this one with you because I learned so much from this inspiring TCA alumni member, and I've got no doubt that you will, too.
Virginia Lette [00:01:21]:
A very big welcome and a huge congratulations to our guest today, Joanna Paul from Moodles.
Joanna Paul [00:01:28]:
Thank you.
Virginia Lette [00:01:29]:
So excited for you. Joanna. You've recently partnered with Sunny days Entertainment. You're fully patented and you're securing placement in retailers everywhere.
Joanna Paul [00:01:38]:
Wow.
Joanna Paul [00:01:39]:
Go you.
Joanna Paul [00:01:39]:
It's been such a wild ride, I have to say. And it's been a four and a half, five year journey. And I'm just now starting to feel it, like I've been so detached because of rejection and anticipation and highs and lows and walking into Walmart the other day and seeing my toys on shelf for the first time, and I thought, oh, you know, I'm just going to do a quick video. And I literally started crying. I wasn't expecting it.
Joanna Paul [00:02:11]:
And did you post that video?
Joanna Paul [00:02:13]:
No, because I looked terrible. No, I was a weeping child, like my baby.
Virginia Lette [00:02:19]:
In my other professional life, I teach elite sports people how to talk to the media. And that's one of the very things that we teach, is to be open and raw and emotive. You know, people really relate to that. They see the authenticity and, yeah, it's just, it takes them on the journey.
Joanna Paul [00:02:37]:
It was definitely a moment and so surreal. Yeah, I'm still beaming.
Joanna Paul [00:02:42]:
Yeah.
Joanna Paul [00:02:42]:
Every day, pinching myself because, you know, there was one thing giving my patent or, you know, having the idea and, you know, meeting great people and, you know, people who were interested. I didn't think, you know, there'd be people who were interested. And then talking to families who wrote me and said their kids were learning emotions and getting through an easier day because they had less temper tantrums. And the list goes on. And I was so detached.
Joanna Paul [00:03:09]:
For those that don't know about moodles yet, let's rewind. Let's take it all the way.
Joanna Paul [00:03:15]:
For those who are listening, moodles is an emotional plush toy with six different facial expressions. And I created it to help kids learn emotions and learn how to express their emotions and to really boost pretend play. So if you're not seeing the video, the faces on a doll are two sided. There's a little knob on top, and every time you turn the knob, you get two different faces. So it's totally non electronic, it's cozy, flush, and I think it's super cute.
Joanna Paul [00:03:54]:
So cute. And when turning the faces, I can see that the faces actually, they look really soft and plush and velvety. Are they?
Joanna Paul [00:04:03]:
Yes, they're very, very soft. There is plastic in the head. So it is, you know, with the turning mechanism that I designed, you know, there. There is some weight to it, but.
Joanna Paul [00:04:13]:
I'm somebody who's really tactile, and I'm just looking at your beautiful moodle there thinking, oh, I'd just love to get my hands on that. It looks like it's so soft and just want to rub it against my cheek or something.
Joanna Paul [00:04:27]:
Just so people know it's got happy or amused. Laughing. Sleepy. So kids do sleep with it, and they can turn the phase to a sleeping phase, and it's got a sad face. And children really love to nurture their stuffed animals. So this is a very important phase. Happy, angry, which stops people on their tracks when they see a cute little stuffed animal with an angry face. You don't really see that.
Joanna Paul [00:04:55]:
Surprised. And, yeah, we're back to amused, but just adorable.
Joanna Paul [00:05:01]:
Do kids name their moodle? Do they give it a name, or does it come with a name?
Joanna Paul [00:05:06]:
We did name our toys when we first started, but everything was so fast and furious that we went through all, you know, the legal channels to get the trademarks. And then the patent took, I want to say, three and a half years.
Joanna Paul [00:05:23]:
Wow.
Joanna Paul [00:05:25]:
We didn't research the names, so then we had to scrap the names at the last minute because we didn't want to run into any problems down the road.
Joanna Paul [00:05:34]:
Just speaking about the names, you are currently going through a name change with your website and even the product.
Joanna Paul [00:05:42]:
Yeah. So I started about four years ago, launched right before COVID It was October of 2019, and I was selling the toy under my brand name. What's its face? It's a mouthful. It was kind of a fun name when you can't remember someone's name and you're trying to describe them. And it kind of played off the faces, obviously. And so I sold it as what's its face? And it did really well. I was a one person operation, didn't know anything about the toy industry. My background is in branding and design.
Joanna Paul [00:06:22]:
It was like the toy industry was like learning a foreign language, you know, a gels glossary. And the toy industry's glossary was very helpful because, you know, people would ask me, is it fob China? I'm like, what do you. Uh huh. I just nodded and said yes to everything.
Virginia Lette [00:06:39]:
We've all been there. Can you tell us the story? How did you come up with it?
Joanna Paul [00:06:44]:
So I lived in New York for quite some time, my adult life, and I worked for a large design agency, a couple of them, actually, three of them. And I worked with many different types of companies. And I was used to having to switch hats from, you know, Clairol in the morning to, you know, the children's cancer foundation in the afternoon and having to learn about different industries just enough to be able to sound somewhat smart about what I was talking about. And when I was, you know, presenting stuff, it was just amazing. It was very fast paced sort of life. And we were in New York. My husband and I were in New York for a while and decided we wanted to slow down and start kids. So we moved to Colorado when I was finally got pregnant and found myself as a totally lost new mom in the middle of the suburbs, moving from the west village of New York to the middle of nowhere, staring at a mountain with a screaming child.
Joanna Paul [00:07:47]:
And I didn't have a creative outlet other than my beautiful baby girl. And as she grew older, she was the most creative person I've ever met, even having worked with the best designers. And she would surround herself with stuffed animals, and when they weren't competing in the Olympics, they were in school, strutting down the Runway, skydiving off of our stairwell. And I was just so in love with this beautiful imagination. And I thought, I really want to create a toy that can respond to her different place scenarios, because when you think of the typical stuffed animal, they have one face. You know, if you're sleeping with them, if you're, you know, if they're in a fight, it's one face. And so I just had the idea, and I kind of toyed around with it. And then a couple of years later, my son was born, and he was learning emotions, and I found myself pulling out the baby books with the baby faces in a sad, baby, happy baby, and he just wasn't really that interested.
Joanna Paul [00:08:57]:
And then I thought of the idea of the toy, and I thought, wow, you know, this could help teach kids emotions. And then my son had a speech delayed I. And so when we were getting therapy for his speech, I started meeting lots of other parents who also had kids with developmental issues and got to know the autistic community very well. Parents in the waiting room and just learning about all the struggles. I mean, it is not the same. I think we're different types of parents nowadays, and we really sort of pay attention. And I learned that children on the spectrum don't really. It's hard for them to identify facial expressions and to learn emotions.
Joanna Paul [00:09:43]:
And I thought, wow, there's this whole community that could really benefit from it. And even the speech therapist was using toys as tools. And then I learned about play therapy, and I thought, wow, there's something to this. But just being the funny mom that I was, it was all, to me, really, like, I really want a cute toy. I was the mom that made everything talk. You know, the doorknob talked, the food talked, everything talked. You know, I was just like, my. Drove my kids crazy to the point where my mom or my daughter said, mom, I can't eat that broccoli because it has feelings.
Joanna Paul [00:10:18]:
Oh, my gosh.
Joanna Paul [00:10:21]:
Now I'm a toy person. It makes complete sense.
Virginia Lette [00:10:24]:
You've found your tribe. We're family now. I was reading your bio, and it blew my mind to see that you fully designed and patented the mechanism yourself. Do you have some kind of engineering background? You're an all rounder, Joanna?
Joanna Paul [00:10:38]:
Well, my father and two or one of my brothers was an engineer, so I think I kind of have the left brain, right brain thing going. But it really was the beauty of 3d printing. There is a local business that helped inventors and hobbyists make mock ups of their inventions. And so I was able to do some technical drawings first. You know, I went to Home Depot, got pool balls, hollowed out the heads, put little screws and little just figure out how the thing turned. And I started out with three faces, and then I thought, oh, this is great. This is all I need. I took the three face stall to a patent attorney in laden while I was living in Colorado because they had toy experience and they said it had been done in the 1960s.
Joanna Paul [00:11:32]:
I believe there was a doll called Get Better Betty, and it was a doll that got sicker and sicker. Oh, right.
Joanna Paul [00:11:41]:
Oh, that sounds a bit morbid.
Joanna Paul [00:11:43]:
It was a scary doll. And so because of that, it was just, it was, it took a long time. They kept giving me examples of why I couldn't patent my toy. But it was very odd. It was store displays and things that had similar turning mechanisms had nothing to do with a doll or a toy.
Joanna Paul [00:12:04]:
Yeah.
Joanna Paul [00:12:05]:
And I finally, I did a Zoom call with the patent agent and he got it once he saw it. And it was this detente system. It's this clicking noise I hear that people just haven't really done, I guess, in a toy.
Joanna Paul [00:12:19]:
So you did all of that yourself without the help of, of any legal people like IP attorneys or anything like that? You literally were yourself.
Joanna Paul [00:12:30]:
No, the patent. I did go to a patent attorney because that was a language I definitely don't speak.
Joanna Paul [00:12:36]:
Yeah.
Joanna Paul [00:12:37]:
Right.
Joanna Paul [00:12:38]:
Yeah.
Joanna Paul [00:12:38]:
Yeah.
Joanna Paul [00:12:39]:
And for those who are considering patenting their product or toy, are we talking like ballpark around $10,000? Is that right?
Joanna Paul [00:12:50]:
One of the unfortunate ones that had a patent agent that just did not want to approve my toy. It was three and a half years until the Zoom call happened with the supervisor, actually. And right after that they approved me. But I've heard. So three and a half years of legal expenses. So that was a lot. And I went with a pretty well known attorney only because they had toy experience. But I've heard of many people have gotten the whole process done in a year.
Joanna Paul [00:13:29]:
I've heard stories of people who haven't reached it yet.
Joanna Paul [00:13:33]:
So you would have spent a significantly greater amount. Yeah, it's really having to weigh up. I mean, that's a lot of money to invest in a patent. Not really serious about growing your product or brand. So im glad I did it because.
Joanna Paul [00:13:50]:
Someone did rip me off recently.
Virginia Lette [00:13:52]:
Oh my gosh, they did. Well give us the lowdown on that story.
Joanna Paul [00:13:56]:
Well, after I got my toy licensing deal, one of the employees at the toy company went to Walmart and found a toy that someone had made that tried to override my patent. And so its a toy that has four cases instead of six. All right, I'm sorry. And whoever did, and I'm not sorry, sorry.
Joanna Paul [00:14:21]:
Not sorry, because it was, it was.
Joanna Paul [00:14:22]:
A blatant, you know, copy of mine, except it had a different turning mechanism, but it wasn't very good. Yeah, it made, it has this sound, the song that you can't turn off and it's all plastic and not sweet. It's just odd.
Joanna Paul [00:14:43]:
You're incredible for getting to that point and for your persistence as well. Three and a half years is a long time, and particularly when you're trying to raise a young family, there must have been times where you're wondering, was it worth it?
Joanna Paul [00:14:59]:
Oh, yeah. So I mentioned that I launched right before COVID So with the first toy fair I went to that I actually exhibited that I should say I went, I walked to Toy Fair, had the best toy fair, where I had a licensing agent who was amazing. And we thought we had a bidding war at the very first toy fair, and that was February of 2020. But there are several companies who were, you know, ready to negotiate, and I was on top of the moon. And the very next month, the whole world shut down. All the negotiations halted, but I persisted. I had quite a bit of inventory. Covid 2020 was actually a very successful year for me because a lot of people really, a lot of parents really resonated with how the toy could help their children.
Joanna Paul [00:15:59]:
Childhood mental health problems skyrocketed. As everyone knows. Kids were wearing masks. You couldn't see people talk, your teachers. It was just a very sad time for kids. So the toy, despite everything blowing up in the world, it did well, that's awesome.
Virginia Lette [00:16:19]:
You knew you were onto something very special from the very beginning. And how or where did toy creators academy factor into your toy creators journey?
Joanna Paul [00:16:30]:
Well, I actually met Azelle. I believe it was at a women in toys event, and I had already launched. I think I had already gotten. Did I get a toady nomination at that point? I can't remember, but on paper, I looked good. I think I might have gotten a woman in toys award nomination as well. And on paper, I looked great. But inside, I really, I still had so much, so much to learn.
Joanna Paul [00:17:00]:
So you thought, well, you know, I.
Joanna Paul [00:17:04]:
Still have a lot to learn. I learn everything. I learn something new every time I go to a toy event. I mean, I definitely feel more confident, but it is such an interesting industry, and I am such an information junkie as it is. I'm always listening to podcasts, books on tape. I'm kind of a nerd in that way. I don't listen to music as much as I should. But I met Azelle, and of course, she is just so impressive and her passion and just her professionalism and her drive, she just was incredibly knowledgeable and very approachable, and that's rare in the industry to meet someone who's willing to give so much of their energy and their time and their knowledge.
Joanna Paul [00:17:54]:
And so I jumped on the course, and she said, do you really need to be here. I said, I'm not sure, but I did learn so much, and I was able to participate because I was trying to get a licensing deal still at that time. And so I was able to participate in her pitch events. I done a few one on ones, and they were invaluable. Just, you know, always, you know, furiously writing notes every time Ajal opens her mouth.
Virginia Lette [00:18:25]:
Well, for somebody who had already launched their product before joining TCA, I imagine it was a really validating experience going through a lot of the modules, and I guess I'm keen to know, what were the key things that you learnt from doing toy creators academy going, oh.
Joanna Paul [00:18:42]:
That'S what I shouldn't have done. I kept thinking over, I could have saved money. All right, yeah, and, yeah. And then she also has an amazing resource list that I used to actually redesign the, improve the mechanism of my toy. I used her resource, a couple of engineers, actually, that went in and simplified the design of the toy. And I was able to save, if I were to do this again, I would save 40% on manufacturing costs.
Virginia Lette [00:19:21]:
Wow. 40%.
Joanna Paul [00:19:24]:
And so that was, I used that as a plus in my pitches. So, you know, so this is the product that you see today. Landed its x amount of dollars I've invested in redesigning the mechanism. And if you were to invest in tooling, you would spend 40% less.
Joanna Paul [00:19:47]:
Wow.
Joanna Paul [00:19:48]:
And that was, it was such an eye opener for me.
Joanna Paul [00:19:51]:
If you've gone in and adjusted or redesigned the mechanism a little bit, how does that affect your patent?
Joanna Paul [00:19:58]:
Oh, good question. Not a lot. You know, the actual turning mechanism is very similar. It's just if I were to manufacture using the new design, I think I would have gotten rid of 65, 70% of screws.
Joanna Paul [00:20:20]:
Oh, wow.
Virginia Lette [00:20:21]:
That's huge.
Joanna Paul [00:20:22]:
40% less plastic, which is always nice. And the weight of the head would be a lot lighter. Sunny days actually did a beautiful job using my tooling. The set's pretty light, and then just extracting the parts from the mold itself is easier, so less time for someone to pull it together. Got it.
Virginia Lette [00:20:49]:
Your lived experience completely rocks me. It's inspirational, it's aspirational, and it's completely daunting for somebody starting out just like me. How old are your kids now, Joanna?
Joanna Paul [00:21:04]:
I have a daughter who is in college. Wow. She's a freshman, and she's studying design.
Virginia Lette [00:21:11]:
And that's where the inspirational part came in.
Joanna Paul [00:21:14]:
She's following in my footsteps. And my son, who had the speech delay, is incredible. He's mensa smart, 13 year old thriving teenage boy, just, you know, they're not interested. All in my toy at this age.
Joanna Paul [00:21:32]:
What you're saying, this has been five or six years in the making, but really, this has been, in your mind, 15 years in the making. 20 maybe, if you're. If your daughter is.
Joanna Paul [00:21:45]:
Yeah, yeah. I've had the idea for quite some time, and I just, you know, I didn't know how I would go about it. And I've had so many ideas. I've driven my husband completely crazy. I finally followed through with one idea, but every idea I've had has always been to help children in some way.
Virginia Lette [00:22:06]:
Joanna, looking through your product information and so forth. The future of moodles is massive.
Joanna Paul [00:22:13]:
Like, oh, I really hope so.
Joanna Paul [00:22:15]:
So much potential to scale the product and the brand.
Virginia Lette [00:22:19]:
Obviously, you're hitting some key milestones at the moment with the licensing and getting all of your new retail placements. So what's next for Moodle?
Joanna Paul [00:22:28]:
So I've written a book and I met with a ton of amazing publishers. I have a new agent who has just introduced me to, like, the best publishers and looking into entertainment as well, talking to some companies about potentially doing some content. And now that I have the toy licensing deal squared away, I'm trying to help drive sales to the stores, and I'm so trying to spend as much time as I can creating content that'll help build brand awareness because I'm in such a great position now that I don't have to worry so much about chinese new year and a fulfillment company and all that. So I've got such a funny sense of humor. So I'm trying to, you know, just get some funny, catchy content out there that both kids and parents enjoy.
Joanna Paul [00:23:31]:
You went down the route of manufacturing in China?
Joanna Paul [00:23:35]:
I did, yeah. Yeah. Well, I went through two american companies, even though I lived in Asia for part of my life because of my dad traveling for work, I was a little intimidated by, you know, going directly to the factory just with the language difference. So I went through two different american companies that partner with China.
Joanna Paul [00:23:59]:
Yeah.
Joanna Paul [00:24:00]:
Yeah. So they were sort of the in between per. Yeah, I ended up going with a Beverly Hills teddy bear company. They took my 3d printed prototypes to the next level. And, yeah, it was really awesome. But, you know, it was costly because my initial orders weren't nearly as much as sunny days entertainment is, you know, purchasing. So my costs were pretty high. As just an individual.
Virginia Lette [00:24:29]:
Well, yeah, it sounds like the old adage, you have to spend money to make money rings very true for you and seeking out people who are positioned to take you to the next level. And along the way, your simple idea that you had from watching your beautiful young daughter interact with her toys is now having a fundamental impact on kids everywhere, including kids with special needs.
Joanna Paul [00:24:53]:
Right. And any child, for that matter. You know, when you think about childhood development, playing with a physical toy and learning emotions is so important. More than people realize. When kids are in front of a screen, their brains don't develop the same way. Playing with an open ended toy, it really develops their imagination. Problem solving. I mean, it's a, it's like it should be a requirement for children, for parents to play with their kids.
Joanna Paul [00:25:28]:
I mean, it makes such a difference. It really does.
Virginia Lette [00:25:31]:
Yeah. And I think on that note, every parent, child and family might do well to have immodels in their home, which, Joanna, brings us to the price point. How did you come to your retail price point?
Joanna Paul [00:25:45]:
Yes. So, okay, good question. So when I was selling these on my own, I realized to be profitable, I had to sell them probably at $38. And then I realized no one was going to pay that well, certain people would.
Joanna Paul [00:26:03]:
$38 sounds like a bargain to me.
Joanna Paul [00:26:06]:
Well, I love that you say that when you meet people from the toy industry, this is very important. And you're looking for a licensing deal. They want to keep things at 1999 or below. Really? 1999 is, for some reason, this magic number that, and we're not talking specialty stores, it's big box. So when you talk, when you're pitching to toy companies, a lot of the toy companies that participate in, say, the women in toys pitch events or the toy fair pitch events are the big toy companies, and they make the most money in the big box retail stores, Walmart, Target, Kohl's, that sort of thing. And they don't want to bother with purchase orders from small mom and pop stores, which is very unfortunate. I started out selling mainly direct to consumer with my website, doing a lot of Facebook ads. So now that I got my toy deal with sunny days, they were able, because they can purchase, you know, in large quantities.
Joanna Paul [00:27:22]:
We retail at 1999, which is beautiful because, you know, more kids can have, you know, more kids are able to get it in their hands and kids who need it or, you know, I just.
Virginia Lette [00:27:37]:
Yeah, that must be so cool to be able to keep the prices low and get it into the hands of more kids and other people as well. I'm sure it makes a great gift.
Joanna Paul [00:27:46]:
The end of the year, you know, you buy your kids or teach her like, a Starbucks card. But, you know, kids, our teachers love stuff like this or, you know, like a baby gift or, you know, it's great for new moms because it's not just, you know, any stuffed animals. It's a great tool, you know, so.
Joanna Paul [00:28:04]:
Definitely that's such a great idea. A teacher, you remember that and use that for years and years and years afterwards, as opposed to a cup that says world's best teacher or the 5,000,000th box of chocolates that they'll get from everybody else.
Joanna Paul [00:28:20]:
Or for a new mom, you know, a box of nappies. No one will remember it.
Joanna Paul [00:28:24]:
Almost got an idea. So tell me, are you shipping internationally?
Virginia Lette [00:28:29]:
Like, how do us people on the other side of the globe get our hands on some moodles? I mean, I hope my daughter's teachers aren't listening right now.
Joanna Paul [00:28:37]:
Well, I'm so glad you asked. So when I was selling them, I thought, of course, I'm going to sell them globally on my own, you know, through Amazon. And I remember this woman came by my booth and she seemed so lovely and nice. And she said, I'm from the canadian toy or trade council. And she said, if you want to sell in my country, you have to go through all. And she dropped off this pamphlet. And I thought, when am I ever going to find time to go through every country's regulations? And it sort of turned me off from doing that. And I really regretted that.
Joanna Paul [00:29:18]:
And like I said, I was a one person shop, so I had no time to research every country. But when I would look on my shopify website and you can see all the visitors, I think someone from every single country on the planet has looked at my website. I don't know why, how, but I, you know, people were so interested in the toy, and I felt sort of handcuffed by not having enough time to research everything. So now I'm happy to say you can get the plush dolls on Amazon and they ship globally, and I believe the walmart.com does as well. And our intention is this fall to partner with some european, hopefully other markets, Asia, Middle east. I've had South America distributors and toy companies to just get it out there.
Joanna Paul [00:30:15]:
Brilliant.
Joanna Paul [00:30:16]:
Very happy about that.
Joanna Paul [00:30:17]:
So to hear that, yes, I feel like I could talk to you all day.
Joanna Paul [00:30:24]:
Call me back. Time is money. Time is money.
Joanna Paul [00:30:27]:
And I know your club is incredibly, as being so busy. A couple more things I just want to touch on before we wrap up the interview.
Virginia Lette [00:30:34]:
You've been in the industry for quite some time now, and I'm still very, very new to it. And one of the very early lessons that we learn from toy Creators Academy is to find out whether or not you're an inventor or an entrepreneur. Now you are an inventor, Joanna, and yet you still seem to me very entrepreneurial as well. How do you differentiate between the two? And do you have to, or can you be both?
Joanna Paul [00:31:01]:
Well, you know, I started off as an entrepreneur manufacturing, you know, distributing, and learned not only how expensive it was, but I learned my strengths and my weaknesses and, you know, realized that I'm more of a creative person than a business person. And also, one kind of sad thing when I launched was because of COVID I felt like you wouldn't know this by talking to me now, but I didn't feel like I could be the face of the brand. I felt uncomfortable talking in front of a camera. And part of it was because I'm asian and timing was just odd for me. There was a lot of resentment against asian women and people, I guess, in general. So now that that's all over with, I'm having fun with it. And I am fortunate enough that the toy company that gave me the licensing deal is allowing me to be myself and to help promote the toy because I'm having so much fun with it now. And I felt like I was so quiet about it before, you know, because when you talk to the person who invented the product, there's so much of the backstory.
Joanna Paul [00:32:25]:
And, you know, you. You come to understand that this didn't just come from someone who doesn't have children, who didn't meet the kids who needed it. You know, it wasn't just a random person. But, yeah. Licensing versus entrepreneur. Going to the entrepreneur route, you really have to know what resources you have, what resources you need. Do you need funding? Can you do this? Do you have the mental strength to endure the wearing mini hats and the stress of being an entrepreneur? And then on the licensing side, are you okay with letting go?
Joanna Paul [00:33:12]:
Yeah. Well, that was going to be my next question, actually, who's sort of tossing up the idea of potentially licensing my product at some point? I'm not good with letting things go. I'm really, really bad at delegating anything because I'm such a perfectionist, and I feel like nobody can do my job as good as I can or they won't be able to deliver it the way that I really feel like it needs to be delivered. So what's a tip or a few tips on letting go? And how much do you actually have to let go when you're licensing your product?
Joanna Paul [00:33:46]:
Well, you know, first of all, I realized because I was just like you, total perfectionist, needed my hands on everything, and I realized I, like I said, you have to know your strengths and your weaknesses. Unless you're this amazing person that can do everything from dealing with the lawyers and the fulfillment and the pr people and advertising and social media and, you know, I mean, it's. It's a lot. Unless you have a good team that you can afford behind you and good people around you giving advice. If you don't have all that, then licensing actually is awesome because you can let go and you want to pick the right partner. Obviously, we don't all, as inventors, all have choices and options to pick the perfect company, but you can say no. And I did turn down a couple of offers, you know, because I felt like my ip wasn't going to be protected. And even looking at global partners now, are they going to market it? So you do have some say, so.
Virginia Lette [00:35:01]:
You do get to maintain some element of control, or is that negotiable?
Joanna Paul [00:35:06]:
I have to say sunny days is, you know, I haven't obviously had another, I haven't accepted another licensing deal, but I've gone through the motions of, you know, getting so close and looking at their marketing plans and getting to know the company, and I feel very fortunate in that they are, they're a very tight knit team. If I have a question, I go directly to the owners, and you can't always do that with a big company. And so I'm very lucky in that respect. And typically, inventors do hold the rights for approvals, so every step of the way in the development of this new doll, I still helped develop the faces, but I was also very fortunate to work with their resources. Amazing toy designer Laurie Rotter. If you're out there, she was just a Dr. Like, I. If I hadn't gotten the toy deal, I don't think I would have had the chance to work with her, but yes.
Joanna Paul [00:36:18]:
So I still have approval rights for certain things, but they're such an amazing company that I trust them.
Joanna Paul [00:36:24]:
Sure, sure. It just feels like the stars keep aligning for you.
Joanna Paul [00:36:29]:
It's just, I mean, I'm making it sound great, but it was a lot. It was a lot. It was such a roller coaster. Yeah, I can't even. It's, you know, being an entrepreneur is not for the faint of heart if you're going down that route, it's more than you realize. And I think I watched too much shark tank, and, wow, my numbers look so great. And I, you know, and speaking of.
Joanna Paul [00:36:54]:
It, maybe I don't want this to be the last thing that we discussed, but it's certainly something I need to throw in pitching. What did your pitch look like for you to be able to get this amazing licensing deal?
Joanna Paul [00:37:06]:
Well, you know, I started off being pretty good at pitching, actually, because of my background in branding and design, where I actually went into my first pitch with Walmart, and I had everything laid out all the way to my store or my product and packaging on their shelves, you know, on an end cap. And I just, because I was used to, you know, pitching designs to companies and, you know, this is what this could look like, you know, this is design a b. So I was very, very buttoned up and, you know, just, I tried to over, and I didn't know if I was overdoing or underdoing, honestly, because I didn't know any different. Yeah. I just tried to let them imagine what the toy could look like on their shelves as much as possible, you know, to show them, can you go.
Joanna Paul [00:38:04]:
And literally stick your product, you know, on the shelf in.
Joanna Paul [00:38:07]:
Oh, it's all photoshopped.
Joanna Paul [00:38:11]:
Funny. I just. I'm not sure if it's legal, but.
Joanna Paul [00:38:15]:
Oh, no, I'm sure, you know, I don't know if people really pay that much attention, but it was really a whole, like, you know, lots of toys. More than they could ever stock of my toy. Yeah, a whole end cap of moodles. That would be nice.
Joanna Paul [00:38:30]:
Have you got your down pat? Like, how long does it go for?
Joanna Paul [00:38:33]:
So you only really have probably 15 minutes, 20 minutes. So, yeah, you have to talk really fast at first, and then you have to listen. You have to listen. And actually, my first prototype of what was then what's its face had a very odd bottle cap top, and the Walmart buyer said, you need to change that. So what I did, I spent the money, I changed it. I want to re pitch them the next year. And she had moved on to a different department, but she made my product better because now it's close to the head. It's a little star, you know, it's easier for the hands.
Joanna Paul [00:39:12]:
Yeah. But I have to say something about pitching is, when I wasn't used to, that was the biggest thing I had to get used to is, you know, usually when you work with a client saying, you pitch a design and they'll give you feedback and you hear concrete feedback, we don't like it. You need to change this. A lot of times it was, you know, we'll get back to you. Or it reached a point where you thought you were going to get a licensing deal, and then you get a letter saying, you know, we're going, we're going to pass. We are going to pass is what you need to get used to hearing. And I've gotten to know some really big players in the industry and to a point where I can call them and say, hey, by the way, why did you turn me down? And they said, you know, joanna, it just could have been a Tuesday in the office.
Virginia Lette [00:40:04]:
No way. So it simply was a case of just being wrong place, wrong day. Gosh, that's wild. Well, good on you for having another go and getting back up and chasing that feedback, because look where you are now.
Joanna Paul [00:40:19]:
Yeah. You don't always get the feedback.
Virginia Lette [00:40:21]:
And so while you were chasing feedback, what was their reasoning for wanting to change the turning module on the head?
Joanna Paul [00:40:27]:
Oh, it was just silly looking. I should have seen it. It literally did look like a bottle cap. Yeah. I'll send you pictures later.
Joanna Paul [00:40:36]:
Yeah, that's super cute. With the scar on the top of the head now, not as obvious. Going right back to the beginning of our conversation in this podcast episode where we touched very briefly on YouTube, changing the name, going from what's its face to moodles. And at what point were you in getting your product out there before you decided to change the name? Why did you change it and how did you change it?
Joanna Paul [00:41:00]:
Very simple answer. The company changed it. And I am so grateful. So that was one thing I was always open to. If you're going to give me a licensing deal, I'm going to respect that. I'm going to trust you for your expertise. And I love the name Noodles. Oodles of moods to share.
Joanna Paul [00:41:21]:
It's easier to say than what's its face. Kids don't get what's its base. It's fun to say. Noodles with an M. Moodle's the movie.
Virginia Lette [00:41:31]:
I can see that in your future. Joanna, let's start the visualization.
Joanna Paul [00:41:35]:
Can you see that on a. That would be my dream. It would be amazing.
Joanna Paul [00:41:41]:
Do I eat a. It's been honestly such a treat to talk to you today.
Joanna Paul [00:41:45]:
Oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I've enjoyed every minute of this.
Joanna Paul [00:41:49]:
You spoke earlier about Azelle being the wealth of knowledge that she is.
Virginia Lette [00:41:53]:
Well, you're right up there, too. Your level of acquired knowledge is extraordinary.
Joanna Paul [00:41:58]:
You have so much experience and so much to share, and the fact that you've shared it with us today is infinitely valuable. So thank you, and I wish you all the very best for what lays ahead with.
Joanna Paul [00:42:14]:
Thank you. So much. This has been a lot of fun.
Virginia Lette [00:42:17]:
Moodles the dolls are exclusively at Walmart, in the stores in Kohl's and on Amazon. And Joanna Paul can be found on LinkedIn. And of course you can see her gorgeous creations on instaoodlesofficial. Joanna, thanks again.
Joanna Paul [00:42:32]:
Thank you so much. It was so nice talking to you.
Jingle [00:42:35]:
Well, there you have it, toy people. That was this week's special episode of making it in the toy industry, profiling yet another wonderful success story from the many graduates of the Toy Creators Academy. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can find more@thetoycoach.com podcast and if you love this podcast and you haven't already left a review, what are you waiting for? Your reviews are not only greatly appreciated, but they're a great way for other people to know if this podcast is valuable and also worth listening to. Everyone's favourite Toy coach Azhel Wade will be back here behind the podcast mic next week with another episode of making it in the toy industry. But until then, in the words of the great lady herself, see you later toy people. Thanks for listening to the making it in the Toy industry podcast with Ajel Wade. Head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips and advice.
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