Episode #14: The Hard Truths About Kickstarter with Julie Underwood Richardson
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If you're considering launching a Kickstarter campaign, or if you're in the middle of prepping your KS launch, then this episode is here for you! Julie Underwood Richardson is the inventor of Shoe Bae and also the creator of the Women Inventors - Product Based Entrepreneurs on Facebook. Julie is a champion for helping women inventors succeed within her group, and her informative and honest posts about Kickstarter is why she joined us for today's episode.
Julie's experience with Kickstarter was a rollercoaster for sure. After earning nearly $7,000 on her first day, her project had a great start. But ultimately Julie faced struggled to hit her target goal. Today, Julie's patent-pending invention, Shoe Bae is the driving force behind her thriving online business, and she still credits Kickstarter with pushing her to get her business off the ground. In this episode, Julie share's her honest truths about the benefits and drawbacks of launching a Kickstarter campaign. She shares estimated costs for video production and working with PR companies, and reminds us to not overlook key points that could make an even successful Kickstarter unprofitable.
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Azhelle (00:00): You are listening to making it in the toy industry. Episode number 14 Intro/Outro + Jingle (00:06): Welcome to making it in the toy industry podcast for inventors and entrepreneurs like you and now your host Azhelle Wade. Azhelle (00:17): Hey there, toy people, Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of making it in the toy industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by the toy coach.com for the next two episodes, I've got something super special planned for you. We are going to focus on the crowdfunding platform. Kickstarter. I've been getting a lot of messages asking about how to run your own Kickstarter. What are the things you should do? What are the things you shouldn't do? So that is what we're going to talk about today. We are going to get into the good, the bad, and the super backers. Now, I bet you didn't know that even an unfunded Kickstarter could still lead to a successful business venture. For today's episode, we will be joined by Julie Underwood Richardson, who launched a Kickstarter campaign that while not fully funded led to a successful business. Azhelle (01:23): In this interview, we talk in detail about the benefits and drawbacks of Kickstarter, the top funded categories within the platform and the value of the relationships forged throughout the campaign process. Julie is going to tell you the honest truth behind launching a product for funding on Kickstarter. Her advice is guaranteed to help guide your Kickstarter efforts, avoid common pitfalls. Predatory marketing agencies suggest where to invest your resources and why and offer guidance on what you should have ready before your campaign goes live. Usually every single one of my episodes on this podcast is hyper-focused on toys and games, but my guest today is actually not a toy inventor. When I first started hearing Julie talk about Kickstarter, I thought this insight is too good to overlook just because it's coming from a different industry. The advice she has a super honest, really applicable, and I wanted to make sure that you hear it because it's a good guideline to make sure that you have all of your ducks in a row and you aren't wasting your time or resources if you do decide to launch your own Kickstarter campaign. All right. Are you ready for the truth behind Kickstarter? Let's listen in on the interview. Okay, toy people. We are going to dive into an honest and straightforward conversation Azhelle (03:01): about the well known crowdfunding platform, Kickstarter and here to share her experience and knowledge. On this topic is fellow inventor and entrepreneur, Julie Underwood Richardson. Julie is a mom and inventor based in Colorado and her most recent invention, my shoe Bay has been featured in daily mail, the sun trend, Hunter and gadget. Now just to name a few, Julie credits are party girl days and a new year's Eve trip to Las Vegas with giving her the idea for the high heel holding accessory. Welcome to the show Julie. Hello and thank you. I actually met Julie through her Facebook group, so this is our first time really meeting and in this Facebook group, Julie offers daily simple tips for her group members asking for nothing in return. And I mean, you just caught my eye because of your really extensive and brutally honest posts. And the day that I saw your post about Kickstarter, I just thought, Oh my God, I've got to have her on my show. Julie (04:09): Oh well thanks for having me. You know, I'm glad I can help in that way. Azhelle (04:15): So how long have you been an inventor? Julie (04:19): Uh, technically my entire life have always had ideas and tried to come up with little fixes of things that I've noticed, mostly problems. However, this is the first thing I've ever been able to make and execute. So everything else has kinda been an idea up until now. And I got caught up in this schematics or not being able to just make it happen. So My Shoe Bae has been the first invention probably out of, I don't know, I keep a list on my phone. I'm probably up to about 30 by now that I've been able to actually, get all the way through and to market. Azhelle (05:01): Wow. And how did you come up with the idea for my shoe Bay? Julie (05:05): So, uh, as a fail party girl, um, Azhelle (05:10): Why do you say that, what do you say a failed party girl? I've been wanting to ask. Julie (05:15): Oh, because I always saw this thing about like retired party girls and all this stuff. It's because I was not successful at it. I wanted to be successful so bad and I couldn't, I couldn't Azhelle (05:35): Oh, I get it. Okay. Julie (05:39): So I was a complete and total failure at this. And one of the things I kinda got, not so much known for, but I just noticed I did a lot was so I had heels, loved them, they matched my outfit. They were looking good, but I always had to take them off. And I was like, I can't stand this anymore. I need some relief. So, uh, I was in Vegas at the Britney Spears concert for new year's Eve at planet Hollywood and I had pit tickets and decked out. Uh, I made it about 45 minutes. That's it. That's all I was giving it before I took off my heels and then all the numb and I was like, Oh my God, this is so annoying. I need to be able to put them somewhere, but of course I had an itty bitty purse and a little dress and, and you can't just drop them on the floor. So I was able to like fashion them to my, uh, to my little clutch purse that I had. Azhelle (06:48): I saw that. Yeah, you wrote about that. That's so smart. Okay. Go on. Julie (06:53): Super excited about that. And then when I got home I was like, Oh my God, I know I can figure this out. It makes sense. Azhelle (06:59):Wait, wait back up because I cut you off, but I want you to tell everybody exactly how you fashioned it when you were in the pit. Yeah. Julie (07:06): Oh, I dug around, I had two hair ties and a bunch of Bobby pins, so I had strappy heels. I like some Jessica Simpson, big old flashy fields and I just wrapped them up and connected them together and then fashion them to little hardware piece. Azhelle (07:25): Yeah, I mean that is what I'm talking. I love inventions that are just like simple solutions. And then the way that you, how you take that idea and then you turn it into something like more mechanical, more thought through like that. That's like, that's the essence of being a true inventor. I love that. Julie (07:42): I love that. Azhelle (07:44): Um, so let's talk about your Kickstarter. That's what everyone's here for. Just so you know, uh, in the toy industry, there's a lot of talk that, uh, you go to an inventor meeting and maybe you're pitching to Mattel or Hasbro. Uh, if you want them to take you seriously, you have to have a successful Kickstarter. That's the message that's out there right now. So I wanted to have you on the show to debunk that a little bit. Julie (08:07): Sure. So for Kickstarter, it's a little different for the toy than it is for, um, uh, products. Um, board games do extremely successful as well as like little things like a fidget cube, uh, which is actually, they're based in Denver as well. It is very important to have a successful Kickstarter. It not only gives you the PR platform, but you also make, uh, an insane amount of connections once you have a Kickstarter. I've teamed up with a lot of people I've met on Kickstarter, which actually boosted my wholesale product line. So that's been helpful. But as far as my shoe Bay, we had the one it did not fund. Azhelle (09:02): How much did you miss in the funding? Julie (09:06):Uh, we raise, I ended up canceling because canceling is better than having it go unsuccessful and I raised 6,000 in change out of 19,000. Azhelle (09:19): What did you learn from the process and are you planning on doing it again? Julie (09:23): The whole reason why I got into Kickstarter was to fund the first production run. So originally I needed the 20,000, 19,000 in change in order to, uh, on the minimum quantity order that my factory in China would produce. So that was the goal, uh, for me. And then as far as preparing goes, uh, you really need to start like eight months to a year in advance. So it takes a lot of research in order to get to where you are launched. Ready. Azhelle (10:02): So talk to us about that launching process. Like what would that look like for someone just starting out? They have the concept, maybe they have like a model that's working, uh, but they haven't gone into full production. Julie (10:13): Yeah. Uh, I think at this point for Kickstarter, you need to be a far more advanced in your process. In order to launch a technically you need to be, uh, ready to launch 99% done with your product. It's not so much as a platform that you want to get your idea to market. You need to have a fully functioning prototype at this time. And then if you don't fund or you don't raise enough, uh, to actually produce the first round, you have to be willing to come up with that extra money in order to get it to your customers. Azhelle (10:54): Oh, I see. Okay. So one of the things I know is really important for Kickstarter is that you have to have a group of people that are following you before you launch. They're interested in your product. How did you find those people for Bay? Cause you still, you did raise $6,000, so those people were coming from somewhere. Where did you get them and how did you get them to contribute? Julie (11:14): Correct. Uh, I raised almost all of my money on the first day, within the first couple of hours. So yeah. So most of it was friends and family, my own, um, email marketing, uh, other connections with just talking to people, uh, meetup groups, basically anybody in everybody that was willing to listen to me for more than 30 seconds. I was just pushing this out there. Just pitch. Yeah. Pitching constantly. So that's how I was able to have a really strong, uh, launched day. Azhelle (11:52): Did you like a marketing campaign that led up to launch day? So that people that say you met in a meetup group last month and then you launched two months later that they didn't forget about you? Julie (12:02): Uh, sure did. So you're going to be utilizing your Instagram stories for this, your Facebook page. I also hired a PR firm for two months, so 30 days up until the launch. And then during the launch I was, uh, utilizing a full blown, uh, PR firm. Azhelle (12:24): All right. I want to, okay. I want to go back to your Ted talk that you posted on your group because it was so good and you had so many great points that I want to pull out and dive into. So you said Kickstarter is no longer for the guy in the basement with a cool idea looking for funding. That's correct. And I have, I have people coming up to me and they're like, Oh, I want to launch this on Kickstarter. And I just feel like that's not our, that shouldn't be our first, um, directive. I think you need a following before you do that. So why don't you tell us a little bit why you think it's no longer true for a look? Why it's no longer for people looking to fund just a brand new idea guy in the basement, you know, style. Julie (13:06): Yeah. So I think, uh, we've missed the boat on that. I think that was your last chance for that was in fact in 2015. Uh, the platform has definitely evolved and if you're going on and researching these campaigns that are successful, um, they have a huge marketing budget. They have experienced teams. These are a well oiled entrepreneur machine that has taken over Kickstarter. Now, not saying that you can't make it, but the statistics are against you for this. Um, you, you really need to be, uh, well funded, well known, uh, already before your you launch. So it's, it's not for the guy who has a cool idea sitting in his basement making up his little prototypes on the weekend. We're way past that. Now, Azhelle (14:06):do you think that there's a crowd funding platform that is coming into replace Kickstarter for those people that are just trying to get started with a prototype or a mock up that they're, you know, working on in their basement? Julie (14:19): Uh, no. Uh, the other large one is Indiegogo. There's also iFundWomen. Um, I [inaudible] don't think there's anything that's going to replace it right now or not that I've seen. Basically the inventors have to involve, evolve or create their own platform. But so far I have not seen anything that looks promising. Basically, we as, uh, inventors bringing stuff to market. We have to just step up our game. And that means more money. More research, more partners, more teaming up. Yeah. Azhelle (14:57): So you were talking about the games campaigns that do really well. You said board games. Julie (15:02): Uh, board games are, uh, doing extremely well on Kickstarter and also little like I mentioned, the fidget cube, uh, did really well. They have a different audience group because when people look at games and if you're a gamer, um, you, there's no cap to how many games do you want to own? Basically you see a game and you like it and you, uh, you want a back. Yeah. So, uh, guy or girl who is really into it, there's no cap on that. But the stuff that does well on Kickstarter is like unisex products, the tech products, things that make your life easier. Anything that's him related. Uh, the Marina wool products, uh, you don't see a bunch of stuff made from recycled coffee grounds. Uh, and then also recycled plastic. And especially if you say ocean plastic, people jump all over it. They're really into this. Yeah. Sustainable, reusable, getting rid of Azhelle (16:15): just the normal throwaway. One time you stuff is doing very well. Yeah. I have a listener who contacted me and she wants to do a plastic, like an ecofriendly type plastic, a action figure line. I think. Um, so yes, I'm hoping to get her some information on that. So that's good to know that maybe Kickstarters somewhere she might want to be. Um, I also saw that you talked about a super backer. What are super backer? I've never heard of that before. Julie (16:43):Oh super. Backers are great. So super backers are people on Kickstarter that back 25 projects or more within the last year and they're always contributing more than $10 per uh, project. So you'll see a lot of people, you can donate a dollar to a project and you could do that several times over, but that won't qualify you as being a super backer. And the reason why they're so great to target is because they already have their credit card. Azhelle (17:17): Yeah. But how do you target them? Julie (17:20): So basically you have to go through other services and cause they don't give you that information. So you have to spend a lot of time manually on the platform and you can notice when it will tell you how many, uh, projects people back. But it's a very long process. So there are companies out there that will for a fee give you access to the list. That's where the funded today is and the gadget flows and all those guys kind of come into play. Azhelle (17:55): Yeah. And that was my next question. Tell me how you really feel about these PR companies. Julie (18:03): Not a fan. I think, um, with how they've evolved. Maybe back in the day they were, they were a very asset, but now I really [inaudible] feel that they're pretty predatory and they're not offering the quality, uh, for the money. And I go in a lot of how, I'm not a fan today. Azhelle (18:27): What is the range, like not just funding today, but just PR companies that are targeting people in Kickstarter. What are they asking for every month and what are they promising? Julie (18:35): It depends. So specifically funded today came after me pretty hard, but I think they go after everybody. And what they were offering, uh, to me was a 2,500 for a week test. So you pay that for a week and they put some ads together, what not for you. And thenonce they run their ads and the week is over, then they start taking 25 to 30% of every ad spin that comes in- Azhelle (19:06): They take 25 of ad spend, not of profit? Julie (19:10): Of whatever, whoever buys from their ad. So they can, yeah, they'll take the 25 to 30% off. They're off that, um, whoever they drive to your campaign if they buy. So the thing that bothered me about it was the 2,500 upfront, because after a week they could just say, sorry, see you later. It's not working out and keep your money. Um, also, there's no way you're going to make back that 2,500 within a week, right? It's longer to set up even a Facebook ad for that. So you're still in the negative when they start taking money up a percentage off your ads. Azhelle (19:58): So, and they're doing ads, Facebook, are they doing ads? Facebook, Google, Instagram. Julie (20:04): Uh, mostly they have, um, Facebook ads, which are based on those pages. Yeah. Um, yeah. Or they'd won't stay like funded today projects that will say check out these Kickstarters are the best Kickstarter and then it's connected to their Instagram as well. Um, Google does. Okay. Yeah. Azhelle (20:25): They already have their own community that they're putting you out to. Yeah. Julie (20:28): And they have a newsletter, um, which is great if you're one of the big projects, but if you're going to be on a newsletter with a hundred people and your small time, you're going to be at the bottom and everybody knows, right. Nobody scrolls down to the bottom. Yeah. No. So it's a lot of hype and I, um, I think it's predatory and then it's just, yeah. Azhelle (21:01): So what, what would you say before you're gonna launch a Kickstarter, um, what would you have ready to go?Julie (21:09): Make sure your product fits Kickstarter? Because not everybody, myself included, uh, is, is really should be on Kickstarter. One of the biggest challenges I have been a female product that's also a niche. So my target markets 21 to 27 they're just not hanging out on Kickstarter. Azhelle (21:34): Oh no. Yeah, Julie (21:36): mine are on Instagram and YouTube and I wish I would have taken the money I used to set up my Kickstarter and put it towards that platform. So Azhelle (21:47): you had done that. Would you have done that on your own or would you have hired a company to help you set up those ads? Julie (21:52): Um, that's a great question because the good thing about Kickstarter is that it forced me to get everything in line. So it forced me to make the video, which is a commercial. It forced me to take the lifestyle shots that I needed. So it was a benefit for me to do a Kickstarter for sure. Azhelle (22:13): Okay. So before you have Kickstarter, you want to have a plan, you want to have your product in order. Julie (22:18): Oh yeah. So you need to have a Kickstarter video, which is very important, but also you need to balance it with your costs. Because if you've noticed scrolling on Kickstarter, a lot of people do it on their phone at work and they'll go right to the campaign. So they're not going to necessarily watch your video. They say they say it's very important and it is. But if you had to cut some costs, I would spend three K on a Kickstarter video instead of 10 and then make your graphics and your texts flow very easily. Like reading a blog or an article, something very easy to find. Azhelle (23:03):I agree 100% I never click the play button. I don't like it because you know what it is. You click the play button when you're on another app like Facebook or Instagram and it and it just autoplays actually. And then you see it and then you're like, Oh, that's interesting. And you click through and then you get to their Kickstarter. Then you read and then you probably back. Julie (23:27): Yeah, I, I mean, when you're researching, I'm telling you, every article you read will tell you video, video, video, and then you get it in your head that you have to do this and then people don't watch it. Yeah. So, Oh, I, I really think the graphics are more important. Azhelle (23:48): Yeah. Simple, easy to read, like a blog posts. Easy to skim. So, so how are you, I'm just curious, how are you sharing and selling your product? My shoe Bay right now, Julie (23:59): right now I am on Etsy because it's in engraveable. Uh, so I have a bachelor at kit. I have my own website that I'm selling from. And then, uh, previous to this, uh, coronavirus , I was doing, uh, Facebook and Instagram ads, but I have stopped all paid advertisement at this time. I saw that. Yeah. Yeah. It's kinda tough. Yeah. I just feel like I can concentrate on content right now and also since I have the time, uh, you know, I'm in a pretty good spot with it. Uh, just helping the community as well. Azhelle (24:42): Okay. I got you. I hear you. And I'm curious though, why you say you may not do a Kickstarter. Is that just because you don't think it's your place? I want to give some sort of like inspiration for my listeners. If they're using, if they're doing toys, if they're doing something that they think might fit, what would be key advice, you know, had you known, Julie (25:05): uh, if I just do an a toy, I absolutely would with me in my product, since I'm already selling on my website, I'm no longer qualified to be on Kickstarter. You cannot be already selling your product. It's um, they tell you it's not a presale platform, but it absolutely is a sale platform. So once you have a working great prototype, UPN, everything together, and then you put it on there as a pre-sale and that's how you would use Kickstarters, best advantage. Now, once you're already selling it, you can no longer utilize Kickstarter. You can for a 2.0 version and you came from a different product within your line, but not once it's available to the public. Azhelle (25:59): So then would the best plan be to just make your target goal something almost nominal, something that's more like I want to get to six or $7,000 cause I want people to start sharing it with their friends and family. Julie (26:14): Absolutely. If you can get to that goal, it's, it's a great way to promote your product and it's always better to have a successful run, right? You just don't want to get caught in that crazy area to where you're offering your product as a reward. You're collecting this money but you can't deliver because you will lose all trust in your audience. What did you offer as a reward with your product? Uh, basically I was starting out. People told me a great reward was your product in a bad reward was anything but your product. Once it turned into that pre-sale platform, they want your product at a discounted rate. And to be the first person, cause I know a lot of people got in a lot of trouble, um, when it comes to like coffee mugs and shipping stuff that would break. That's heavy. So yeah. Julie (27:15): So when you think Kickstarter you, the number one thing you have to think of on the backend is your shipping because that can make or break your project if, if your product's heavy or large, uh, to ship. Yeah. Or prone to breakage. You kind of want to stay away from it. Breakage. That would, yes. Don't do it cause it would honestly give me nightmares. But um, yeah if it's a large product, if it's a heavy product, if it's hard to pack or it needs a lot of packaging, um, you really have to factor that into your overall cost or you could come out of a successful project in the whole. Azhelle (28:03): Interesting. But Oh, real quick, cause I know I'm taking, I'm keeping you so long. Tell me a little bit about some of the connections that you made. Cause you said the Kickstarter you did was failed, you don't think it's the right platform for you, but you said you made a bunch of contacts that really helped you. So what kinds of contexts were those? Julie (28:20):I did. So, uh, during this same time period, there was another campaign run by a couple out of Amsterdam called After Socks. So with my high heel holder, I've in the background, I had several kind of other inventions in the back of my head that I wanted to do. And one of them was a backup shoe. Like what do you do once you take your shoes off? Why, how do you not end up barefoot? Well they came up with the perfect solution and I was like, why reinvent the wheel? Let's just team up. I messaged them and I asked them if they had a whole sale option. So Kickstarter is the cheapest that you will ever, ever get a product. So basically we teamed up, I ordered wholesale for them and now I, I sell it together with my product. So it's the my shoe Bay and the solution. Julie (29:22): I was thinking, I was thinking that same thing. I was like, well, what will I wear if I take off my shoes? So that's great. Exactly. So after socks, it's a, it's like a soft cloth sock, but it's a PVC bottom, a plastic bottom that's waterproof. They do this whole test where you can walk through a CLA. Legos. Yeah. And it doesn't, uh, you know, puncture. It's a great product. It's worked out really well. So I've teamed up with them. That was all through Kickstarter and it's been really helpful. That's awesome. Yeah. And then another product that I found on Indiegogo, the same way, it's called a nightcap and this was really cool. It was a 16 year old girl in high school and her brother was in college and they came up with a scrunchie that doubles as a protected drink cover. Yes. I saw that on your page. Julie (30:20): I saw that on your page. Yeah. So when you're out at the bar, you can have this crunchy, it fully works, take it out of your hair and put it wearing on your wrist and it covers your drink. And it was fantastic. So I, yeah. So I did the same thing with them. I reached out to them and said, Hey, do you have a wholesale option? I'm putting together this bachelorette kit. What do you think? And they're like, this is great, blah blah blah. So I've been moving forward with that and it's worked out really well and they're just cool people to know. So it's been great. You're just really building a brand around failed party girl. I almost feel like you need to trademark failed. Julie (31:00): But how did you feel putting your product on Kickstarter without a patent or patent pending? Or did you have a patent? Uh, I'm patent pending so I'm nervous but the, it outweighs it. So you have to just put in place what you can and then blitz the market and hope that you build a brand and people stick with you. Um, it can't protect you from getting ripped off and it's very possible, but you just hope that you flow on your loyalty. Yes, I agree. I agree. Sometimes when people get too hung up on the patent, they never bring the idea to Mark. And then next thing they know someone's come out with something very similar anyway. Exactly. You have to just roll with it. Go as fast as, as hard as you can and just keep up with it every day and, and just make it happen. Julie (31:54): Great. Yeah. Wow. This was great. This was great. The conversation. Do you have anything else you want to talk about, like new projects in the pipeline that you want to share? Uh, just I have the, when everything settles down, uh, we're putting together a really great bachelorette kit that includes the my shoe Bay, the Afters Socks, The Nightcap, a re-usable straw and some other little party girl accessories. So I'm hoping, uh, that will be great when it launches. It's called the Noc kit, uh, like nocturnal N O C and uh, yeah. So that's, that's one of the things we have in the works. Well, good luck on your future projects. I'm really excited to see how it turns out. I love following you. Thanks Azhelle (32:40): for posting all the things you do on Facebook. I would recommend any of my listeners joined the women in ventures group, so thank you for coming on. It's been great meeting you and talking to you and everything. Perfect. Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. Take care of joy. Talk to you soon. You too. Well, there you have it. That was a great conversation with a lot of useful insights and tips into running a general Kickstarter campaign. What I loved about talking with Julie is how open and honest she was with her information. I really appreciate that she shared her lessons with us so freely allowing you to learn and be more prepared when you run your very own Kickstarter campaign. So now let's recap a few of her main points before wrapping up the show. Azhelle (33:37): We talked about how Kickstarter is more of a presale platform now, which means you want to make sure your products are ready to manufacture so that you don't run the risk of letting down your backers by not being able to produce the goods. Another important point that Julie pointed out was you have to consider the cost of shipping your item all around the world and cushioning that cost into your backer rewards. Or you might come out of an even successful Kickstarter campaign without a profit and potentially losing money. You want to avoid things like heavy items, breakable items or items with complicated packaging cause that could make or break your project. The other thing we wanna make sure is that our audience is on Kickstarter. For us focusing on games and toys. Right now, we know now that they're doing really well on Kickstarter. Azhelle (34:31): We know as a platform that our target markets are comfortable spending money on or investing in. You also want to target super backers because those are the frequent backers of Kickstarter. What makes super backers extremely desirable is that their payment information is already in the system. You can pay for tools or outside companies to help supply you with the contact info of super backers or you can try to do the hands on research yourself. Now, one of the biggest points I thought was the best takeaway was what PR companies are going to try to offer you. Now we learned that PR companies might charge you 25 to a 30% fee of the conversions that they drive to your campaign, and on top of that, depending on the company, they're going to charge you a flat initial fee could be around $2,500 so keep that in mind and keep in mind that you are also going to have to pay for whatever ads they help you run. Azhelle (35:32): Now remember, Kickstarter is a great way to launch and pre-sell your idea and if successful you will have validated the need for your concept and the interest of it in the market. But I hope today that you realize that the journey of running a Kickstarter campaign is even more valuable than completing the campaign itself. The connections you'll make with likeminded individuals through this process could change your business or expand your market reach much like it did with Julie. I would like to thank you for listening to this episode of making it in the toy industry, and I want to see you here next week where we interview Marjorie spittle, Nick about her successful Kickstarter campaign of a plush doll line called little rebels. Now, if you want to stay up to date with this podcast, make sure you join our Facebook group. Did you know we have a Facebook group? You can check the link in the show notes or just search Facebook for the title of this podcast. Well, until next week, I'll see you later toy. Intro/Outro + Jingle (36:38): Thanks for listening to making it in the toy industry podcast with Azhelle Wade. Head over to the toy coach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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