#225: The Secrets of A Successful Toy Licensing Deal with Lee Allentuck
IS YOUR PITCH READY FOR THE TOY INDUSTRY?
Pitching your innovative toy idea to industry giants can be as daunting as a job interview. In this episode of "Making it in the Toy Industry," hosts Azhelle Wade and Lee Allentuck demystify the art and science of pitching, with insider tips that will revolutionize your approach to securing those golden licensing deals. Whether you're a seasoned inventor or a newbie in the toy world, there's a nugget of wisdom here for everyone.
WHAT ARE THE SECRETS TO A SUCCESSFUL TOY PITCH?
Episode 225 zeroes in on the nuanced relationship-building in the pitch process. Learn how showcasing your background, even outside the toy industry, can play a critical role in catching a company's eye. Lee Allentuck likens the pitch process to job interviews and emphasizes the necessity of a brief yet impactful self-introduction.
THE LOWDOWN ON LICENSING DEAL TIPS
Equity and Fairness: Lee Allentuck stresses the importance of being realistic about your product's value and ensuring fairness in negotiations.
Profitability Insights: Understand how profit margins and market reach influence sales and pricing strategies, a critical aspect covered by both hosts.
Protect Your IP: Intellectual property is your goldmine; Lee's advice on safeguarding it is invaluable.
Marketing and Reputation: Discover how experience and a good marketing strategy can justify higher royalties, with parallels drawn to iconic figures like Beyoncé and Taylor Swift.
TECH & TINKERING IN TOY DEVELOPMENT
STEM's growing impact on toy development is vividly discussed, with Lee sharing his personal journey and involvement with STEM-focused products like Blue Marble. The duo highlights the transformation from making prototypes with unconventional parts to leveraging modern tools like 3D printing and Arduino.
JOIN THE TOYMAKER COMMUNITY
Want your pitch to stand out? Lee emphasizes the merits of professional presentation—your website, email domain, and pitch deck should scream "professional" and "prepared." And don't forget to utilize platforms like LinkedIn and industry events for networking.
READY TO TRANSFORM YOUR PITCH INTO A WINNER?
Listeners are encouraged to dive into the full episode for a treasure trove of detailed insights and actionable tips. From Lee's childhood tales with toy cars to the dynamic discussion on inventor relations, every minute is packed with takeaways to elevate your inventing game.
Stop playing with your toy idea, and learn to create a seriously impactful pitch in this episode. Tune in, take notes, and prepare to conquer the toy industry.
3 Key Takeaways
Discover the Secrets to a Successful Licensing Deal [Timestamp: 15:42] Find out the keys to negotiating a winning licensing agreement for your toy inventions! Lee Allentuck shares invaluable insights on being realistic about product value, ensuring fairness in negotiations, and protecting intellectual property.
Learn About the Essential Connection Between STEM Toys and Creative Development [Timestamp: 21:30] Learn how working with Blue Marble's STEM-focused products has influenced innovative toy development and discover Lee Allentuck's personal passion for STEM education, which fuels his professional journey.
Unlock the Professional Approach to Pitching Toy Ideas [Timestamp: 10:56] Learn the importance of a brief self-introduction and professional presentation in the toy industry's pitch process. Lee Allentuck compares it to a job interview, emphasizing marketing, experience, and credibility to stand out, just like top stars in the entertainment industry.
Stop playing with your toy idea, and learn to create a seriously impactful pitch in this episode. Tune in, take notes, and prepare to conquer the toy industry.
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Want to connect with Lee? Keep reading, and let him know The Toy Coach sent you!
Connect with Lee Allentuck on LinkedIn
Visit Lee's website,Innovation In Play
Read Lee's blog, Raising Nerd. -
[00:00:00] You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 225.
[00:00:05] Jingle: Welcome to making it in the toy industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you and now your host, Azhelle Wade. Hey there, toy people, Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach podcast, making it in the toy industry. This is a weekly podcast, and today's episode is sponsored by the toy coach.com.
[00:00:37] Azhelle Wade: Our guest today is Lee Allen Tuck, a titan in the toy and game industry, and the visionary founder of the plan, a group with two decades under his belt. Lee has been the mastermind behind elevating iconic brands like Lego, Hasbro, and Melissa and Doug turning unique ideas into beloved products worldwide.
[00:00:58] Lee's nomination is one of Mojo [00:01:00] Nation's 100 most. Influential figures in the toy and game design industry is a testament to his profound impact on this industry. Lee's magic lies in his ability to merge his deep market insights with a passion for creativity and education, building collaborations that lead to pioneering innovations.
[00:01:18] Lee's commitment goes beyond the business as a first robotics coach and force behind the raising nerd blog, Lee champion STEM education, inspiring the next generation of tech and engineering leaders. And today I'm so excited to have Lee on the show talking about licensing for my inventor listeners out there.
[00:01:37] Lee, welcome to the show.
[00:01:38] Lee Allentuck: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited. I'm like nervous. That
[00:01:44] Azhelle Wade: means I've done my branding job.
[00:01:46] Lee Allentuck: Well done. Yeah. I'm on pins and needles here. This is
[00:01:48] Azhelle Wade: great. That's right. Hire me for your branding needs. Anyone listening? I love it. Yeah. Appreciate the respect. So today we're going to dive into the secrets.
[00:01:58] I hope [00:02:00] behind successful licensing deals in the toy world. Lee, we connected, was it like two years ago?
[00:02:06] Lee Allentuck: It's been a while. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:07] Azhelle Wade: And I've never told you this, but the time you reached out to me, I was actually really intimidated because you'd reached out to me and just like, Hey, let's meet. And I was like, why does this person want to meet me?
[00:02:16] I don't know what I'm doing.
[00:02:18] Lee Allentuck: Always sketchy, man. It's always, if I'm reaching out that you, yeah, you never know. It's funny. I love connecting with people and I love what you do
[00:02:29] Azhelle Wade: and
[00:02:30] Lee Allentuck: what you do for the community and for the industry. And I was intimidated to be honest. I was like, Oh my gosh, here's somebody that's like doing something so amazing and helping so many people.
[00:02:41] I would just love to see behind the scenes what goes on and, and how can we help each other? And, you know, are there opportunities to like, Just connect.
[00:02:50] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And in those early days, anybody with a new business, I feel like you don't even know what to say when you get opportunities to meet Titans in the toy industry or Titans in whatever industry you're in.
[00:02:59] And you're like, [00:03:00] I just started this. I have no idea what we can do, but now I do. And it's this. So welcome to the show. You
[00:03:06] Lee Allentuck: say the Titans, it's like, I don't know about that term. I, it's super nice. It's like, I don't know. I might get a t shirt or a tattoo with it on there.
[00:03:17] Azhelle Wade: It's actually not a bad idea.
[00:03:18] Lee Allentuck: But it's, uh, when I left, um, Lego about six and a half years ago, um, I was, I was worried, honestly, I was like, I've been in this industry a long time.
[00:03:29] I've worked for major brands and, and, and I feel like I have an incredible network, but once you leave and your email is no longer lego. com or hasbro. com, will people respond? Right. And, and. You still carry the brand experience you had in the contacts and the network, and, um, it's nice to be able to say that this industry, this community is not shut off.
[00:03:56] At least in my opinion, I, if you knock on a door, you know, [00:04:00] nine out of 10 times, someone's gonna open it and they're gonna, you know, want to talk. They may not. Sign you up for business right away, but it's an opportunity to actually connect with people. Um, I feel like it's always there.
[00:04:12] Azhelle Wade: I want to get an understanding of what are you doing right now?
[00:04:15] Primarily. I want to talk a little bit about what you do with Melissa and Doug, but I'm curious to know what you did at Lego and Hasbro. Give me a quick overview.
[00:04:22] Lee Allentuck: I'll give you a kind of a background. So I, my background is actually in, uh, brand marketing and I started my career in DC where I grew up, um, doing sports marketing and entertainment, uh, PR and kind of grew, you know, with the different industries that were in DC.
[00:04:40] So a lot of what I did were like events based, um, local businesses like restaurants and things like that. And then I got into more global PR. I went from a very small. 12 person agency up to the world's largest PR firm. So it was kind of a culture shock and then left [00:05:00] there for a startup in of all things, wholesale fiber optic telecom.
[00:05:06] I
[00:05:06] Azhelle Wade: don't even know what that is.
[00:05:10] Lee Allentuck: Glass wire you put in the street and, um, uh, it was great. I love this startup mentality. I love that, that work. Eventually I moved over, um, to join a, uh, up and coming mobile telecom company called Nextel, which was the, if anybody is old enough to remember the push to talk and we had the sponsorship with NASCAR and, um, You know, the NFL and NBA, we, we did all kinds of really cool marketing and branding, uh, work there.
[00:05:42] Um, and then we merged with Sprint and I jumped over to kind of be in the center part of the brand doing a lot of, uh, making sure that the brand was consistent across all touch points. So when you were talking about your branding experience and your, your expertise, I'm a huge fan of brands and, and, and making sure [00:06:00] that they resonate Have a strong message and an audience.
[00:06:04] Um, but when we moved up here to new England, I had the opportunity to go work for Hasbro and Hasbro games here in, in just next town over. And there I was, um, put on, uh, you know, responsible for all the licensed games and homegrown properties and puzzles. So working with the likes of Disney and DreamWorks and, uh, Nickelodeon, I helped make the, um, I managed the, uh, Spongebob Operation game and the Spongebob Monopoly.
[00:06:36] Two of the best selling of those games in those brands ever. So I'm very excited and proud of that. And then, uh, when they picked up and moved from East Longmeadow back to Rhode Island, I just went a mile down the road to Lego where I headed up outbound licensing. So managing all of the, the Americas and Australia, New Zealand, Anything that had to do with, um, [00:07:00] non brick products.
[00:07:01] So it could have been apparel, publishing, um, hard goods, storage was a big deal, uh, stationary and things like that, working with third party manufacturers. And that's really where I think my, my growth in the industry went kind of Took off is because you're working with outside manufacturers and you're still trying to keep it on brand.
[00:07:21] You're still trying to make sure it lives true to the brand. And, um, that's when I really enjoyed doing that. And we did a lot of great stuff for the brand. They're working on the movies, um, working on the TV shows. And then six and a half years ago, I decided to take a leap of faith and go out on my own.
[00:07:39] And I've been doing brand marketing, consulting, product development, consulting, content relationships, and inventor relations is where you and I kind of hit it off of working for brands. Um, like Melissa and Doug, I even did inventor relations for a little while for Lego. And then, um, Merriam Webster, [00:08:00] Britannica brands.
[00:08:01] And now I'm with Blue Marble, a STEM toy company out of Oregon.
[00:08:06] Azhelle Wade: Oh,
[00:08:06] Lee Allentuck: that was a big resume drop though.
[00:08:09] Azhelle Wade: No, I mean, yeah, it was, I didn't know. Wait. So you do inventor relations for multiple companies right now, or you're working with just Blue Marble?
[00:08:16] Lee Allentuck: Right now it's just Blue Marble. Yeah. So I've done it for multiple companies and continue to reach out and find new clients.
[00:08:23] Yeah.
[00:08:23] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I would love to talk more obviously more about in the inventor relations work because we have not had that many people come talk about that topic on this podcast, because it seems that a lot of inventor relations reps move in and out of that role. Yeah. So, The only time we really talk about it is when I talk about it. We had Tanya Thompson come on at one point.
[00:08:47] Lee Allentuck: She's the queen of interrelations, so.
[00:08:49] Azhelle Wade: Oh, she's amazing.
[00:08:51] Lee Allentuck: I'm considered an outsource for the toy company. So,
[00:08:54] Azhelle Wade: Oh, so you work like you're like a Tanya Thompson.
[00:08:56] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. Outside. Or
[00:08:57] Azhelle Wade: Okay. And I got you. Got you. Got you.
[00:08:59] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. And the [00:09:00] reason for that, I think that what's different about me and an agent one is I don't represent the inventors.
[00:09:05] Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
[00:09:06] Lee Allentuck: That means I don't take any money off of your hands. I don't take anything on the back end. I like to think of my job as a facilitator. And a lot of times people worry that it's a gatekeeper. My job is not to keep inventors out. My job is to make sure that I'm setting them up for success when they finally meet with my client.
[00:09:26] It's a tough position to be in because. You know, I work for the toy company, I represent the toy company, but I need both sides to be successful. And, and that's kind of the difference between what I do and what an agent does. An agent will come in and say, here are my client's stuff and represent them in the pitch or open the door for the pitch.
[00:09:48] But they are on the inventor side.
[00:09:50] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about that process then. So working with Blue Marble, and in the past, you'd also done the similar work for Melissa and Doug. What is the process of [00:10:00] identifying new inventor products that you think your team would be interested in seeing? Where do you go to find them?
[00:10:07] Lee Allentuck: It's a great question. It starts honestly, um, with the overall brand and portfolio strategy of the client. So for Blue Marble or Melissa and Doug, or even Lego, my job is to really understand where the need is, where the priorities are and what's missing. I don't need somebody to come in and present something we already have.
[00:10:30] I need somebody to come in and present something that we want to go and do. And so it still needs to tie strongly to the brand. It still needs to be within the capabilities of the manufacturer. For instance. My clients don't do plush and if you come in and present plush, it doesn't really sync up, right?
[00:10:49] It's like a, it's a tough thing to sell in. So really we start with trying to understand where the needs are put together. What we like to say is a comprehensive [00:11:00] wishlist of categories, but not so tight that it doesn't leave. Room open for innovation and, and maybe there's something we could expand to, but it does need to be pretty streamlined from the sense of, um, like I said, I don't want to see categories that we're never going to do.
[00:11:16] It's just, it's not a, it's not a good use of anybody's time. And then from there, after we have our wishlist, it's really an introduction to the company, right? So when I start talking to inventors or designers or engineers, I want them to know what we're about. So is a bit of education, a bit of an understanding of what kind of company we are, why, what capabilities we have going into the wish list a little deeper.
[00:11:43] And then also the inventor one that wants to know that they're a solid company. Like you don't want to go present to a company that can't pay you or that isn't going to be able to grow your brand or your invention. And so you need to give that reassurance that. This is a for real company. This is a successful company and we've [00:12:00] got successful metrics behind it to be able to take your idea, your invention and make something of it.
[00:12:06] Um, and so it's building that trust and that bond and then, you know, making sure that everybody's comfortable from, from that starting point.
[00:12:14] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Kind of
[00:12:15] Lee Allentuck: where I'd like to start it from.
[00:12:17] Azhelle Wade: And what is it about an idea, maybe we could talk specifically for Blue Marble, what is it about an idea that comes to you that says, oh, there might be something special here that, that gives it that wow factor?
[00:12:29] Lee Allentuck: Yeah, I think it's, it's a couple things. What, like, I mean, you've been in the industry enough, you know, uh, our industry is lazy, you know, it's like, you've got to show what the potential is. Right. You got to, you can't leave for granted that somebody's going to say, oh, I see it. So you need to come in with.
[00:12:48] Yes, here's your idea. Here's your concept. Show me. Is this going to be a line or is this just a one off item? Is this an opportunity for a category that could be growing? Are there [00:13:00] trends in the marketplace? What? My biggest thing is Tell me your inspiration. What, what drove you to this? And I think that's something that gets lost a lot of times in pitches where somebody goes, here's the idea.
[00:13:13] And that's it. like, I want to like a lot of inventors that I talked to are like, well, I saw that my kid did this and I was really intrigued by it. I'm like, that's a great story. Tell me more of that. So getting into really, what is it that drove that inspiration? Because if it's happening to you or you've witnessed it, Then other people are going to witness it or other people are experiencing that.
[00:13:36] And that shows me that there's potentially a need there and we can fill it with this idea.
[00:13:41] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. You're giving me two, you're flashing me back to two things. Recently, I had a call where somebody was showing me a product they were developing and they said, you know, this product can actually also be used in a game.
[00:13:51] Um, but I'm pretty sure that if I show it to this company, they'll just say, Oh yeah, we could see how we could use that in our game. And I was like, no, no, they won't. No, [00:14:00] they won't.
[00:14:01] Lee Allentuck: I've been in those conversations. Um, when I was at Hasbro, I worked, uh, in the game side of the business and there were these, uh, These inventor relations guys, and they're pretty famous.
[00:14:10] Mike hurdle and Mike gray, Mike and Mike's and they have their job. This is like early on in the days of inventor relations, at least from my perspective. Um, and they were amazing. They would go out and bring these ideas in. And if you want to talk choppy, like you have really good professional inventors that would bring an idea and it was a good presentation, but they weren't in the room.
[00:14:31] They were literally. Here's the concept. And Mike Gray is this big, lovable guy. He's like, Hey guys, you got to see the vision. You got to look at it this way. And this is what it would be. And like, the designers would like tear them apart. Like, Oh my God, this is horrible. He's like, no, you need to kind of see it.
[00:14:49] We would get concepts that were so like Frankenstein put together of like, it took like a nerf ball over here. And then maybe it's an electronic [00:15:00] part from a rock or, you know, some sort of like Simon, and they mash them together. And it was just ugly. And it didn't work right. But you had to have that vision.
[00:15:09] Nowadays, people get them. Better concepts. You have better abilities to do 3d printing and caddy and Arduino is kind of raised the, you know, raise the abilities as well. But back then you really had to imagine it. And if you were an inventor and you didn't give a good sort of solid vision to it, it was kind of like really hard for us to see because we're thinking.
[00:15:35] Something else, right? Where our world is, we don't know your world. So I always tell them, come in with like, tell us your inspiration. What gave you this idea? What insights do you have? And show us people using it. Show us people playing with it. Give us some, you know, even if it's rough video, it's still like.
[00:15:54] Kind of inspiring.
[00:15:55] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And you can't expect the company to fill in the blanks for you also, that's kind of [00:16:00] what they're paying you for. Like to fill in the blanks. That's why you're
[00:16:02] Lee Allentuck: there, right?
[00:16:03] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, that's like, ask them to do half the work for you. So actually you, you brought up another good point.
[00:16:09] Every now and then I'll bring up a
[00:16:10] Lee Allentuck: good point. Every once in
[00:16:11] Azhelle Wade: a while. But these days, you know. The like bar to entry is a lot lower in the sense of it's easier. There's 3D printing. You can connect with people across the globe to get affordable models done. You can get prototypes done. It's a little bit easier for people who may not have the skills themselves to develop prototypes and even pitches to pitch ideas.
[00:16:30] So is there anything. today that you see stand out more? Like, um, is there a certain skill or nuance that not every inventor has, but the few that do really leapfrog ahead? It might be how they edit their videos. It might be that they've already built an audience. I'm curious. Is there something that's standing out today?
[00:16:52] Lee Allentuck: Yeah, I mean, there's a, there's, I, I look at it kind of my own experience. Like I am, there's certain things I'm good at and certain things I'm not. And when I'm [00:17:00] not good at something, I find somebody that I can partner with or collaborate or, yeah, they could do it for me. Um, the, I don't know. You say the barrier of ENT entry is low?
[00:17:09] I, I don't know if invent lower . Yeah, I mean lower, but I don't know if inventors will say that from the sense of getting in the door is. still seems hard, right? Um, there's many more, like, uh, avenues in, like your work and Mojo Nation and people who play in those groups. But, um, the ability to put together a concept and an idea is exactly like you say.
[00:17:35] It is the opportunities that are available. Are just amazing. And the capabilities that you can have at your fingertips, everything from being able to do zoom call and have be in front of somebody versus trying to text them or get on a phone, or you got to get on a plane, um, being able to 3d CAD. With free software or 3D print something, um, using Canva, anybody [00:18:00] can be a graphic artist.
[00:18:01] Now, um, you can have a website to tell who you are. You can make videos with your phone, all this stuff, um, as yeah, made it so that you don't really have an excuse not to produce something that looks a little more professional. Um, and, and, and, Brings your story to life. But to answer your question, my biggest thing is come in with with a story to tell.
[00:18:26] Um, really important to say, you know, like I said, what is what drove you to this idea? What is the story behind this? What is the story of it? Right? Is there? You're building a character. Are you building an I. P. Are you building a line of toys or games that can be strung together for a unique purpose?
[00:18:46] Who's your audience? And it's be able to tell it in a way that is succinct and feels natural. Is so much better than like piecemealing things and just throwing stuff out there and hoping [00:19:00] it sticks.
[00:19:00] Azhelle Wade: Right. Now, when you're working with inventors on behalf of Blue Marble, how do you balance their amazing creative ideas with products that you think will actually be commercially viable?
[00:19:13] Like, what do you do if you see something you're like, Oh, this has legs, I don't know. Don't fall in
[00:19:17] Lee Allentuck: love. Don't fall in love. It's, it's really tough. Um, I mean, I've seen products that, um, it's, it's about timing most of the time, really about timing. It could be a great idea, but it's not right for us at this moment.
[00:19:32] We're not ready to go into that category or it's conflicting with something that we're already investing in. Um, it could be any number of things. I've seen products where I'm like, Oh my God, you're crazy. If you don't take this in and we eventually don't take it in, I'm like, I'm on the edge like maybe I should go into the toy business, you know, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm ready for that.
[00:19:55] You know, thick
[00:19:56] Azhelle Wade: skin.
[00:19:57] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. So [00:20:00] my going back to the whole idea of being a facilitator. It doesn't just. Stop when I make the introduction, it's that whole throughput of, um, when we review it, my job is also to facilitate the reaction and the feedback. And so I really try to give honest, not heartbreaking feedback, but honest feedback that will help the inventor or the designer to go and say, all right.
[00:20:27] I can do a better job pitching it maybe, or I can add a little more of, uh, you know, engineering to it or whatever. The idea is it's, it's about building that relationship and building it for the longterm. And so if it's not the right item at the time, giving them that feedback so that they can go make those changes or find a person or a company or a manufacturer that.
[00:20:51] Maybe it is right for it. Maybe the timing is right for them. But yeah, I get caught up a lot of times and I try to hold my tongue, but I'm just so, I love this industry and I [00:21:00] love toys and I love play and I always want to get dug into it and, you know, like, Oh my God, this is awesome. And I also can't give away my ideas on it.
[00:21:09] Like, Oh, you should do this and do this. And it's like, Oh wait, I just gave you a million dollar idea. Now you're taking it to our competition, you
[00:21:16] Azhelle Wade: know? Yeah, that's a big, big
[00:21:19] Lee Allentuck: struggle. So it also kills the negotiation. If you love it that much, you kind of lose your leverage.
[00:21:23] Azhelle Wade: Have you, can you give an example?
[00:21:27] Is there an example of the time where, you know, an inventor pitched something to you and you thought, It was good, but needed some work. They did the work and then it actually went forward with the company you were working for.
[00:21:38] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. I mean, we, we, it's, I don't think it's as, um, linear as that sometimes. I think it's sort of a ongoing conversation.
[00:21:46] It's not that we say no, it's just a come back with some, some changes or things like that. And yeah, we have, I'm working on one right now. I can't really talk about the specific item, but the inventor came in with this really cool idea. [00:22:00] And presented it and we're like, Oh, I like that. But you know, can we do this with it?
[00:22:04] I mean, they would go back and test it and see if it works. And sure enough, it worked. And so we've added that element to it. So, yeah, it's, it's, again, it's, it's relationship building. It's, uh, it shouldn't be us on one side, them on the other side. It should be like, how do we all work together and make this a success for everybody?
[00:22:23] Azhelle Wade: I'd love to talk a little bit about that, like when the relationship building angle, because when I have students coming through Toy Creators Academy and then we have our pitch events and we do, now we're having our first in person one ever, but we normally do virtual pitch events. What I like to do is I like to open the conversation with the student, with the company or with the representative from the company and talk a little bit about them.
[00:22:47] And why they're a great inventor that this company should work with. And although it's not part of the standard pitch process that I think most people in the toy industry use, I find it really valuable when I open up and [00:23:00] say, this person is like a bioengineer and that's why they're presenting you with this like green toy concept that is really cool and patented.
[00:23:09] So like, so what, yeah, what do you think about that? Like when do you think it's important for an inventor? To if they have some credibility outside of the toy industry to open the conversation with that.
[00:23:21] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. I mean, I like, I equate it to a job interview, right? And the idea is we're humans, right? We're not like, it shouldn't be just, Show me your idea and I'll get out, you know, it should be, but I would keep it brief, like have a pitch.
[00:23:36] Right. And, um, I always tell people, um, be able to answer the hardest question in an interview is tell me about yourself.
[00:23:44] Azhelle Wade: And the
[00:23:44] Lee Allentuck: reason that's so hard is because people either read the resume, which I did on the beginning of this, this podcast, which is probably not good form. Either reading the resume or they go into a long tirade about everything in their lives and [00:24:00] neither is really good You know give us like a one liner couple sentences on who you are And if I had done it properly and prepared properly for this in this discussion, I would have said I'm a creative who can't draw.
[00:24:14] And that's kind of my pitch. It's like, I love the creative process. I love being a part of it. I love working with creative people. But if you asked me to draw something, you would end up like this stick figure back here. My daughter drew that, but it's off of my original design. And, but it's, I think it's important to be able to say, Who you are, why you're doing this and, you know, what is your background?
[00:24:37] Because we may say, God, we need a bioengineer on a project. It's so interesting, you know, but I, but I keep it short, keep it tight and like, make sure you have, you know, you're prepared for that tough question of like. You know, tell me about yourself.
[00:24:53] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. No, that's so true.
[00:24:55] Lee Allentuck: It's clue to every word. It's so fetch.
[00:24:57] It's
[00:24:57] Azhelle Wade: so clue. It's like girl for me and girls. [00:25:00] So now you're working with Blue Marble, very STEM focused product, it seems, which aligns really well with your blog and effort. So, um, how does this partnership work out, you know, for you being that you're so embedded in the STEM world and Blue Marble so focused in STEM product, does it influence The way that you look at toying game development, especially when you're, you're working with inventors.
[00:25:23] Lee Allentuck: Um, I think it's, it's a passion of mine. I started raising nerd back in, oh my gosh, almost a decade now. Um, when I was, my son, it's your quintessential nerd. He's really in engineering and science. And I always really tried to encourage that in him. And so people would always ask me like, Oh, I want to get my kid into coding.
[00:25:46] What should I do? And stuff like that. And so it just sort of kind of became this thing, not an advice column, but just sort of a way to, you know, kind of express my interests and hopefully help other people. Working with Blue Marble [00:26:00] or, you know, even my, you know, Melissa and Doug before that, and even Miriam Webster in particular.
[00:26:05] It's all like, you know, kind of ties in together to that idea of forever learning and using play to drive curiosity. I don't know if it makes me a more qualified inventor relations person. I just feel like I can connect to it better and give that guidance. Um, you know, being a robotics coach for, for the last 11 years, I, Can't build a robot.
[00:26:30] Like I'm the least qualified person to work on a robot. Um, but my job is, is again, to help other people learn how to build robots and how to project manage and how to be creative and how to learn new things. And so I think I like to carry that over into my work as well.
[00:26:49] Azhelle Wade: All right. I'd like to focus now on the secrets of a successful licensing deal.
[00:26:54] Cause we kind of leaped, frogged over and started talking about your, your role as an inventor relations manager. [00:27:00] But yeah, let's, let's talk about licensing. Uh, I know you work for the company, so it's kind of like asking. The HR manager to give advice to the employee, but
[00:27:12] Lee Allentuck: your job, that's their job.
[00:27:14] Azhelle Wade: I mean, they work for the company.
[00:27:17] Let's be real. They work for the company first. So what advice can you give for inventors navigating complex licensing deals? I'm sure that the, the, the licensing deals that blue marble hands over to an inventor, it must be pages and pages long. And what can inventors just in general, uh, when looking at licensing deals, if they get the opportunity to get one, what can they look out for?
[00:27:40] What should they be aware of?
[00:27:42] Lee Allentuck: I think there's a couple of things. One is be realistic, like protect your brand and know your value, but also be realistic, you know? More successful that this product can be and the margins that the manufacturer can deliver In the long run, it's better for you the inventor [00:28:00] And so if you're going to come at them with a huge royalty rate It's going to be really hard for them to get behind it because it's going to cost them more money So i'm not saying rip yourself off, but just be realistic.
[00:28:12] I think the other thing is I learned when I was going For my MBA, we had this amazing woman come in. She was an attorney and she was, her job was negotiating contracts for professional athletes. And she told us a story about, um, the pie, right? And it's as you're slicing up the pie and you're trying to give people, um, enough pie to survive.
[00:28:36] Uh, and you find that like, you've run out of places to slice the pie,
[00:28:41] Azhelle Wade: right?
[00:28:41] Lee Allentuck: Get another pie. There's enough pie for everybody. And if everybody should walk away feeling good about it, um, and should feel like, Their interests have been met. Maybe not 100%, but feel good about it. The fact that you've got a good deal on both sides, because if you walk away and you feel [00:29:00] like you got robbed either on the manufacturer side or on the inventor side, nobody wins.
[00:29:05] Because it's going to be a really tough relationship that you have for most likely three plus years, you know, so be realistic. I think the other piece of it is, you know, protect your brand, protect your IP and, and, and so forth. And so will you pay for the, uh, any patents? Will you, or will the company pay for it?
[00:29:26] Who gets it at the end? So bring your own attorney or your own legal support. Be smart about it. This is business, right? And, and try not to get emotional about it, even though it's your, your, your baby and you've, you've worked so hard on it, but. It's business and making sure you're taking care of your interests, but you're also being realistic and making sure that everybody comes away with a win.
[00:29:48] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I really liked the part you said about more margins being more sales. I don't think I've framed it that way before. We've often said, um, you know, getting [00:30:00] 2 percent of something is better than a hundred percent of nothing. Right. But this idea of more margin, more sales is, is even better, I think, because so for, for inventors listening, you have to think about the fact that like, okay, if this company wants to create a product based on your idea, they're gonna have to sell it to, let's say, Walmart, Walmart's gonna want 50%, you know, like to make 50 percent profit on that idea.
[00:30:23] So the company's gonna have to produce it. Let's say they produce it for 5 and then they sell it to Walmart for 10. So Walmart can sell it for 20. So because of your royalty, they can't produce it for 5 and now it's going to cost them 6 and now they can't offer Walmart the 10 price that they originally wanted or whatever.
[00:30:41] That's going to reduce how many they can sell. That's going to reduce how likely it is. They'll it'll pick up and they will actually kick back on you because you won't be getting royalties from anything. Cause it won't be selling. Um, if Walmart has to increase their price at store level because they couldn't get a lower price point for the manufacturer, then it's also not going to sell as quickly.
[00:30:59] So [00:31:00] yeah, this idea of. Thinking about, like, being reasonable about your royalty, so it doesn't affect the margin, so it doesn't affect the sales, so you can sure keep getting that royalty, is a great other way to think about it. That's great.
[00:31:12] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. And then the marketing dollars that are available to go and promote it, right?
[00:31:16] That's a big deal. Um, when you, if you were like a, you know, a professional inventor that has hit over hit over hit, um, and you've been in the industry, you know, I always look at the guys like Dan Klitzner of KID who invented Bop It. Um, and, and, and people like that, they justify being able to bring, you know, the bigger royalties.
[00:31:37] If you're just
[00:31:37] Azhelle Wade: starting
[00:31:38] Lee Allentuck: out.
[00:31:38] Azhelle Wade: They're like the Beyonce's of the toy industry, the Beyonce and Taylor Swift, you know?
[00:31:42] Lee Allentuck: The Beyonce of, I can't wait to tell him that. Um. Might go to his head. But I go back to the idea of like, you're just starting out, you know, I'm not saying like devalue yourself and and rip yourself off.
[00:31:59] [00:32:00] But make sure you know you want you want long term success. You want. Like you said, I love the way you said it is like, you know, 2 percent of something is better than a hundred percent of nothing. So don't shoot yourself in the foot trying to like, get your first product out.
[00:32:14] Azhelle Wade: No, it's so great. And it's like momentum.
[00:32:17] You just want that first licensing deal. So you can go get the second and the third, and you want, you want to build credibility and relationships, as you were saying before. So where are some other places that inventors should go if they want to connect with. You or other people who are representing toy companies, like, you know, you're going out there doing legwork and finding them, but where can they go to make sure that they are found
[00:32:36] Lee Allentuck: by
[00:32:37] Azhelle Wade: you?
[00:32:37] Lee Allentuck: Yeah. I mean, LinkedIn is a, is a perfect, is a great place. Right. And make sure that you're communicating what you do, uh, and that you're an inventor. And I, you know, I get a lot of inquiries and people wanting to connect and I'll review them. And I, I try to be a little, uh, Yeah, but other groups like Mojo Nation, I think is [00:33:00] like one of the best ones out there.
[00:33:02] One is Billy Langsworthy over there and his team are fantastic about raising the ships and making sure that The community is solid and people are connecting. People have played with Mary Cousin out of Chicago, kind of the original gangster when it comes to this. Yeah.
[00:33:19] Azhelle Wade: Mary is the OG. Yeah.
[00:33:20] Lee Allentuck: And then you, I mean, obviously your work and everything, but they're listening to you already, so I don't need that.
[00:33:27] But, uh, going to toy fairs, going to, um, uh, Astra going to, even like if you're in Vegas at the time, licensing show, but you do have to do some legwork. You do have to reach out and set up meetings. You can't just show up and hope that you're going to get in the door. They all have closed, closed off booths.
[00:33:45] And so to get in, Really need to make sure you have done the, you know, the legwork, you know, going back to something that you said, though, of like how to position yourself, how to do it. I always advise in talking about the capabilities that you have at your [00:34:00] fingertips this day and age, to be able to show that you're, you're professional is be a professional.
[00:34:05] Right. Have a website. Pay the couple extra bucks to have a email domain that is your company. Um, and be be grown up about it. Don't use the email that you had in college, right? Like there's there's there's a point when you got to say, you know, I'm in the real world, but have the website up and make it clean.
[00:34:24] Make it look professional. Show us some of your capabilities. Show us some of your work. Um, and successes and you know, maybe even starting your own blog. Maybe nobody will read it, but at least I have somewhere to go and say, all right, this person is for real. They actually want to do this for, for real. I get it if it's a side hustle or if it's something that you're trying.
[00:34:45] Um, but if you want me, a professional, get you in front of my paying client, I need to know that you're, you're for real. And so taking that same piece of information on your LinkedIn, making sure that you have your contact information, you have [00:35:00] your website up, and what you do and who you are, you can have your.
[00:35:04] Real world job in there as well. But, you know, have a company name or something that says, I'm in this for real, I'm going to do this and not to belabor it, but like when you present to me, have a, have a real presentation deck, a template with your brand name on it, have, um, you know, things like, uh, You know, your, your insights and your age targets and all that stuff that you're working on, have it nicely laid out and clean and things like that.
[00:35:31] So be professional, treat me as if you're a professional. So I feel like you are a professional and I'll take you serious.
[00:35:38] Azhelle Wade: You are making me so happy right now. I'm like beaming because, because in, because in TCA, I ha I thought that I was being like super type a doing this, but I have this whole portion where, where I, where I tell people like, okay, you can decide to be an inventor or you can decide to be an entrepreneur, but regardless of what you decide, We're going to figure out your, um, your toy branding.
[00:35:59] Like, so [00:36:00] you might, if you're an inventor, you're doing a studio branding. If you're an entrepreneur, you're branding your company. Right. And I remember when I was building it, I was like, is this like too much? Is this too type A? And then I go into like, okay, let's. Let's get to your LinkedIn together. Okay.
[00:36:14] What's going to be your organic content. That's going to help people discover you as an inventor. So like everything you're saying, I'm like, Oh, I'm like, Oh my God. Yay. That's so cool. Cause that's like exactly what
[00:36:24] Lee Allentuck: you work. You, this is your livelihood. And this is like, I'm looking at your screen right now and it's so well done.
[00:36:30] It's beautiful. Um, and you know, I don't know if you're a graphic artist or not, but you have some style to it. It doesn't take much to out. Play 99 percent of our industry, showing up with a strong look and feel. Um, you can have your style like you can be kind of the weird guy with a weird hat at the events.
[00:36:54] It's identifiable, but don't show up with sweatpants and like, uh, you know, t [00:37:00] shirt. But my thing is like, it's just so easy now. And I have to remind myself sometimes because it's easy to get lazy. But when you're sending emails, Be proper about it when you're, when you're contacting people, you know, be professional.
[00:37:14] And I don't think it's being too hard. It's, it's just, I know it's a play business. It's all about play, toys, but it's still a business business. Yeah.
[00:37:23] Azhelle Wade: I have to remind myself sometimes I'll like write a one sentence email and I'll be like, this looks casual and I'll throw it into just chat GPT to just like see what it would do.
[00:37:32] And then it makes it all professional and I'm like, Oh wow, I can't believe I almost sent that.
[00:37:38] Lee Allentuck: Come up with those words before they're going to know I'm fake, you know,
[00:37:44] but I, I mean, I work with a lot of young inventors and people that love mentoring and I love being in the industry and giving back so many people have helped me, um, realize what I am and what I want to be. And it's, it's important for me to help [00:38:00] others. And so my biggest advice is like, Spend the 20 and get a domain, put up a quick and easy website that looks clean, have the email, have the template.
[00:38:10] Those kind of things are, they're not that hard. And once you have them, you're done. Move on to other stuff.
[00:38:16] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Looking ahead, how do you see the role of inventor relations managers evolving? Do you see more companies hiring internal inventor relations managers? I hope not.
[00:38:28] Lee Allentuck: God, no,
[00:38:29] Azhelle Wade: or partner. I mean, they might pull you in or partnering with external.
[00:38:33] No, I am really curious. Like, do you see that more companies will continue to partner with external people or internal? Like what's the benefit of, I don't, you know, of having each I'll tell you
[00:38:42] Lee Allentuck: on the, the internal is for the big boys, right? Like Hasbro is. Master's, Mattel's, they've got the resources and the, um, the capabilities and the finances to do all that, right?
[00:38:55] For small and medium sized companies, you're just looking for some innovation and [00:39:00] hiring someone like me, um, or some of the other ones that are out there, I won't mention their names, you have to take away
[00:39:06] Azhelle Wade: from that. This is my moment. yeah, but
[00:39:08] Lee Allentuck: it's, um, It makes perfect sense. And I write about it a lot on my blog of like, how do you compete with the Hasbros?
[00:39:14] How do you compete with spin masters? It's like finding outside innovation, all these inventors, all these designers, all these outside capabilities that you don't have, can't afford, or maybe just don't even know how to do. If you hire outside resources. It's so much cheaper. You can hire like five people for the price of one internal person and get so much more out of it and not have that full commitment.
[00:39:39] Um, I'm not that expensive and I bring a lot to the table for you. And typically people in my position will over deliver because It means that much to us, you know, not saying that the internal people don't deliver. They do. They're hard working people. They travel everywhere. But there's for small, medium sized [00:40:00] companies and toy and games, even outside our category, it just makes so much sense to like, Use the gig economy to your advantage and, and, and hire people like me.
[00:40:09] Azhelle Wade: Awesome. Okay.
[00:40:11] Lee Allentuck: And you can do that with me at allantuck. com.
[00:40:13] Azhelle Wade: And yes. And before, before we get to the closing, I forgot to ask you your opening questions, so I have to ask it right now. Start, please finish the sentence for me. The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was.
[00:40:26] Lee Allentuck: How small, but so damn big it is.
[00:40:29] Azhelle Wade: Hmm. Can
[00:40:30] Lee Allentuck: you explain that?
[00:40:31] Azhelle Wade: What? Yeah, of course. Elaborate. Okay.
[00:40:34] Lee Allentuck: It's small. Like I was just on the phone call with a design group out of the UK and we were talking and it's like, Oh my God, we used to work together at Hasbro, right? Like, and then we're like, Oh my God, we bumped into each other in New York at one time.
[00:40:47] And it's such a small industry that, you know, so many people, um, I have been in it for a long time. People leave a job and go to another company or they move on and do something else. And it's that, that [00:41:00] sort of camaraderie and, and that everybody's an ally still exists and we all continue to connect, but it's so damn big because there's so many people in it.
[00:41:11] It's, if you play the name game, like, Oh, do you know, so and so? Seven degrees of
[00:41:15] Azhelle Wade: somebody,
[00:41:17] Lee Allentuck: you know, you continually run into people that you don't know. And you keep meeting people and the companies get bigger and maybe you don't, you know, I worked at Hasbro for a long time and I will tell you, I don't know if I know that many people inside the company anymore.
[00:41:30] I know a certain three that I work with, but it's gotten so big. Same with Lego and things like that. So it's a big industry with big players, but it's a small industry where people connect, um, and stay lifelong friends and, and try to work and collaborate together.
[00:41:45] Azhelle Wade: You've got me wondering who is the Kevin Bacon of the toy industry.
[00:41:48] I kind of want to say Mary cousin.
[00:41:50] Lee Allentuck: Mary's pretty close. Tanya's pretty like, oh, she knows everybody inside and outside the industry. Who else? [00:42:00] It's not me. Seven degrees.
[00:42:02] Azhelle Wade: We should test this. Seven degrees.
[00:42:05] Lee Allentuck: It's a tough one. Maybe like, I don't know. But maybe that's a contest we should do, like a bracket system and see who gets.
[00:42:14] Azhelle Wade: That's so funny, but it would have to be like, cause what does the Kevin Bacon thing is somebody who's been in a movie with Kevin Bacon, right? So it would have to be like, Or knows Kevin Bacon, right? No, knows is too vague. Cause anybody will be like, I know, right? It'd have to be like, worked with, or
[00:42:28] Lee Allentuck: Yeah, that's a tough one.
[00:42:29] That's a, yeah.
[00:42:31] Azhelle Wade: Where can people reach out to you, Lee, if they want to work with you? Um, LinkedIn
[00:42:36] Lee Allentuck: is a great way if, uh, if you forget what I'm about to say, but I have a website called innovation in play. com innovation and play. com. Um, and there's a lot of, there's background information on me, but I write pretty steadily on a weekly basis articles and content on the industry.
[00:42:54] So I'm very proud of that. So you can reach me there or my email at Lee at [00:43:00] howlandtuck. com got it
[00:43:01] Azhelle Wade: we'll put all the links in the show notes and my final question for you today What toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:43:10] Lee Allentuck: So I worked in a toy store an independent toy store when I was in high school That was my first real job And so I was stocking shelves and working register and I loved it And so I was like I was neck deep into all the 80s and stuff that came out.
[00:43:24] But my go to when I grew up, I was a matchbox kid. I loved like the little cars, uh, um, uh, playing with a matchbox and hot wheels and stuff like that. So I was always trying to collect those. I had a little goofy, like this is, So like the insight into Lee's world, I had a little suitcase that I would carry to my friend's house.
[00:43:48] Not a collector's case. Like this was a legit, like an adult suitcase, , like 1960s. Like I'm going on a business trip suitcase and I would carry all my like, um, all my cars [00:44:00] and stuff and I would play like, and I was, because I was the third of four kids and so everything got handed down to me. I didn't, I rarely got new toys.
[00:44:08] Oh, my mom. Disagree, but I, I don't remember ever getting a new toy. So I would get blocks, like we had blocks, like wooden blocks and I would build massive cities in my room with cars and everything, and you couldn't like walk in my room. And, uh, but yeah, Matchbox and cars were kind of always my go to thing and what I was really, really looking for.
[00:44:29] Azhelle Wade: Oh, cool. Thanks for sharing that. Oh, it was a perfect way to go
[00:44:32] Lee Allentuck: through high school. I was playing with Matchbox cards.
[00:44:35] Azhelle Wade: I feel like if you're an eighties, nineties kid, you were in love. Have you heard of nine to five warriors? You got to check it out. My, one of my students did it. It's so cool. It's like if office supplies were action figures.
[00:44:47] So it's just, and it's like vintage aesthetic design. It looks like a nineties cartoon. Like it's so cute. Yeah. It's really cool. I mean, I was into
[00:44:54] Lee Allentuck: mad balls. I was into like, uh, Atari and all that. Like I'm older than you. [00:45:00] So all my stuff was like eighties and, uh, you know, it's, it's one of the things that I always, you know, It's sort of, you know, loved about my childhood is that we just had sort of that leaving the seventies of disco and going into sort of, you know, eighties new wave and pop and stuff like that.
[00:45:17] And the toys kind of came with us as well.
[00:45:20] Azhelle Wade: Well, Lee, thank you so much for this episode and for this, um, conversation. And for this overview into what you do, if you listener love this podcast and you haven't already left a review, what are you waiting for your reviews? Come
[00:45:36] Lee Allentuck: on, we hours worth of our life here.
[00:45:39] This is like, give us some feedback.
[00:45:42] Azhelle Wade: It keeps people like Lee and myself. Coming back week after week, just scroll down wherever you are and look for the leave a review section. Leave us a review, or you can go to thetoycoach. com forward slash review and leave a Google review
[00:45:56] Lee Allentuck: and share it.
[00:45:57] Azhelle Wade: Everybody share it all over the [00:46:00] world.
[00:46:00] Yes, please, please. I need that as always. Thank you so much for spending your time with us today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one until next week. I'll see you later, toy people.
[00:46:15] Jingle: Thanks for listening to the Making It in the Toy Industry podcast with Azhelle Wade.
[00:46:21] Head over to thetoycoach. com for more information, tips, and advice.
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