Episode #32: The Value Of Partnering With A Passionate Licensing Agent
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Episode Description
Are you ready to learn more about the value of having a sales partner in your toy licensing journey? Do you find yourself searching up "how to license a product idea" in your free time? Well, this week I’ve got a toy licensing agent to introduce you to named Michael Goodman. Michael is the founder and head of MLGPC Licensing Agency where he represents toy designers, authors, animators, show creators, IP owners, and illustrators to sell and license their creations.
In this episode, Michael and I talk about what licensing agent does, how they partner with inventors and the value of having one on your side when you have a product ready to be pitched. Michael will also explain his process from accepting clients to bringing a toy to the market. If you are ready to learn more about the toy licensing business, this episode is a great place to start.
Episode Cliff Notes
An introduction to the licensing agent, CEO and Founder of ml GPC licensing agency Michael Goodman [00:01:54]
What is a Licensing Agent and what do they do? [00:03:45]
How did Michael Goodman start his licensing agency and what was his goal [00:09:27]
How does a licensing agent do work with inventors [00:14:14]
Examples of great pitches [00:21:10]
Product Pitches and Brand Story [00:28:27]
While there is no rule, whether the design is great or not or the mechanism can be applied to multiple licenses are important factors.
How to Pitch a Product to a Toy Company? [00:30:19]
Re-Pitching Products [00:34:45]
How Does a Toy Licensing Agent Represent a Designer vs an Author vs An IP Owner vs an Illustrator [00:39:02]
Toys and their Connection to Childhood [00:43:10]
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Connect With Michael:
Email Michael and Submit Your Product For Representation: michael@mlgprodco.com
Listener Spotlight: Check out Box Eds Paper Crafts, a passion project by MITTI listener, Andrew Dunn.
Visit www.boxedspapercrafts.com today and support fellow toy people!
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Azhelle 00:00
You were listening to Making It in The Toy Industry, Episode Number 32.
Intro/Outro + Jingle 00:08
Welcome to Making It in The Toy Industry, podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs like you. And now your host Azhelle Wade.
Azhelle 00:18
Before jumping into today's episode, I want to tell you all about something super special that I've got in the works. Now this is for you if you're in love with learning with me on this podcast, and you have an amazing toy or game idea that you want to create and monetize. In September I will be opening the doors for you to register for my online digital course Toy Creators Academy. Now if you've already joined the email list, then go you you are ahead of the game and I can't wait to serve you when the doors open up. Toy Creators Academy is going to teach you how to develop your toy ideas and turn them into a toy. So, if you'd love a little more toy-spiration from me and a whole lot of guidance, then head over to toycreatorsacademy.com and join the early access list. If you're on that list, you are going to be among the first to know when the doors open. And to top it all off, you are going to get the opportunity to join the course at an incredible rate that no one else will get not even my regular toy code insiders. So if you've got a few great toy ideas inside of you, and you want to turn those ideas into a toy business, head over to toy creators academy.com to learn even more. Okay, let's jump into the episode. Hey there toy people Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of Making It in The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today is a very special day because today I have with me Michael Goodman. Michael is the founder and head of a licensing agency called ml GPC licensing agency where he represents toy designers, authors, animators, show creators, IP owners and illustrators to sell and license their creations. He's worked in the toy industry for 12 years and has sold IP to industry leaders like Spin Master, Jack's Pacific Funko just play Goliath games and so many more. I am so happy to have Michael on the show with me today. Welcome to the show, Michael.
Michael 02:37
Thank you so much for having me. I'm actually a fan of the show. I mean, I don't know if you know this about me, but I listened to every toy podcast. I watch every toy, you know, TV show or streaming show. read every book on toys. I'm you know,
Azhelle 02:53
really,
Michael 02:54
I swear
Azhelle 02:55
And you like this podcast?
Michael 02:57
and I do like this podcast. I listen to it all the time. I you know, and and I just think there's there needs to be so much more dialogue in and around toys and all the different, you know, facets and areas of it. So I'm so happy to be here. I really appreciate it.
Azhelle 03:14
Wow, thank you so much. That means a lot. That means so much to me. It means a
Michael 03:18
lot, right? Yeah. Well, thank you. It means a lot to me that I'm here. So what do you want to talk about? Because I'm an
Azhelle 03:24
open book. Oh, man, I want I want. I want to know everything I want to know at all. I got questions for you. Awesome.
Michael 03:31
I shouldn't say I'm an open book, because there's so if I do say, I probably will be sued. Oh, yeah. Honestly. Yeah. Same mother. So I will see stuff there. But But other than that, yeah, let's go.
Azhelle 03:44
I know. Yeah. All right. So first, let's just start off and talk about what a licensed licensing agent does, because I have some of my listeners that they're just new to the toy industry. Some of them don't even realize what they want is a licensing agent.
Michael 03:58
Yeah. Well, that's what they want. Yeah, so they mean, they may not they may not want me, but they need me. And the reason is because, look, you know, there are people who could do everything. And those people are amazing, but but even the people who, you know, you see in the public eye who you say, oh, man, they could do anything. They have people helping them along the way with different facets and areas of of their work. So, you know, if somebody is a toy inventor, right? Maybe they're great at inventing toys, or hopefully they're great at inventing toys, right? You know, are they great at the prototyping or they're great at the painting or they graded, the packaging, all that stuff? They probably have help in there. So let's say it's a group of people do they have? Are they great at sales? Okay, do they have the connections in the toy industry to get it to the right person within the company that they feel that it should be at? And that's the main question they have to ask themselves, and then they should ask themselves one more thing is if they get it there, and they get a deal on the table, do they know how to negotiate that deal? Do they know what to look for? When they're negotiating that deal? Do they know what a good deal looks like? And will that company on the other end, you know, trust that they can make a deal with this person. They even go the step of entering into a conversation and saying, hey, yeah, we like this product. So I think what people fail to realize is that they need a salesperson, you can make a product, but if there's no one out there pounding the pavements, literally, yes, for them. Mm hmm. Then it just sits there.
Azhelle 05:31
Exactly. So true.
Michael 05:34
And I've been involved in projects where I've seen it online somewhere, maybe they paid for PR something. I've seen it online or a Kickstarter or something. And it caught my eye and I said, Man, this is amazing. I gotta get in touch with this person and see where it's at. Because I'm a fan of it first, and then second, like if it's not set up somewhere with entertainment or, you know, a toy company then I'd like to represent it and see if I can do something with it. And I can tell you how many times I've been so surprised that someone who's done a Kickstarter, which is amazing, who's done, you know, whatever it is a sizzle reel for a show, and they're not out there and it's not sold. Next thing, you know, two weeks later, I got a deal on their table. Right. And that feels great. Because, you know, I've done a service to them done, you know, service to myself and my company. And and we've gotten it that one step closer to being in the hands of the end user, the people who should be having it right. And that's really my goal. I like to, you know, I want to get great toy properties and great toy inventions into the hands of the people, whether that's through, you know, a toy manufacturer, entertainment, whatever it is, and so, you know, if I can help in any way do that. I mean, that's the greatest gift is seeing that thing on the shelf or seeing that thing on on the TV or streaming service. So yeah. Well, that's, that's great, because I, I do think that one of the drawbacks of this freelance economy that we have right now is that everybody thinks, oh, I can just hire someone to do this piece and that piece and then I can put it all together myself. But if you're putting in part time effort, there's this old saying, it's like, if you're putting in part time effort, you're gonna get part time results. Straight away. Yeah, good. No, I was just gonna say it also, it's like, you know, to have the contacts, the contacts in the industry, and to actually know how to sell and market and license that, you know, that that toy to that right company. I mean, it's a totally different skill set. It is,
Azhelle 07:46
you know, it takes time to hone I think so. Well, I mean, it's taken me a
Michael 07:49
while. Right, right. Yeah. And you know, some people when they talk, they say, Oh, you've made it you made in the toilet and I love this, this idea that your podcast called Making It in The Toy Industry. I don't know that you've anyone has ever made it because there's always that one person who has done more. Yeah, you know, even if you've, you know, had a lot of success, there's someone who's had even more success. And it's just, it's just that journey, man, you know, that incredible journey that that we're all on. So I don't compare my success or anyone else's success because like, it's like apples and oranges, right? It's really your own.
Azhelle 08:29
Yeah, you definitely have to look at it, where you come from, where you came from, and how far you made it. That's how I mean that's how I feel.
Michael 08:35
Yeah, and I don't know if you could tell but I've just had, you know, I think it's called like a quadruple espresso. You know,
Azhelle 08:42
I'm on fire, right? Like, I'm the opposite. I'm so Zen.
Michael 08:47
Oh, very Zen very. You are very relaxed.
Azhelle 08:50
I have a heated blanket with me. Okay.
Michael 08:54
I find your podcast is really so relaxing. Oh, you're talking about stuff that I'm very Interested in Yeah. And then and then your voice is very soothing calming. Yes it is. It really is a very relaxing podcast listened to
Azhelle 09:08
thank you i there are times where I have to retake cuz I'll listen to it and I'm like, Oh, I was talking real fast so I'll have to retake something.
Michael 09:17
Oh, I don't know. I like it. I like it. But so some of your listeners may be like, Who is this guy? Yeah, cranked up on on coffee, you know, and well, he's the guy
Azhelle 09:27
that's gonna get your products in the right stores. So I want to talk a little bit about your licensing agency. How did you start it? When was it founded? And and like, what was the goal of your work?
Michael 09:42
Sure. So um, let me just, I guess, where do we start? I think really, at the beginning if we just started really at the the way, way, way back beginning. I was in education and I wanted more. You know, I wanted to To take that experience into entertainment, so I was writing these kids shows and pitching it to, to actual not only producers, but also networks. And I was getting No, yeah, I was getting meetings. And trust me, the shows were not good. Like, the ideas were not great. Like, they were they were they were hot garbage buying. I was like I was selling I was selling it, you know, like I was in a you know, and somebody I was at the CBC, which is a network here in Canada. And they said, We really like your ideas. And by the way, I don't know if they were lying around. I said, but the only way you're going to sell a show is if you if you have a licensed product and I was like I don't even know what a licensed product is. And I was, yeah, I was walking back to my car and I was like, Okay, this is over. I'm gonna try something else. But I said hold on a second. Here. I can do this. Okay. And it was at the time when the Smurfs was the Smurfs movie was coming out. Okay. And so what I did was I said, well, what's a property? That's kind of like the Smurfs, but that would that would maybe let me actually, you know, option it you know probably for very little money or nothing which you know I don't want to give away the the actual terms of the agreement but I never yeah but I managed to get them to allow me to to have the rights to mon chichi which was this month Wow.
Azhelle 11:27
Yeah it was like I feel like I know
Michael 11:30
it was it was like a monkey toy Japanese monkey Yeah. And it was licensed to Mattel me at a big huge business from Mattel, the 80s. And I remembered it because it had a Hanna Barbera cartoon that was very much like the Smurfs. So I said, Well, hold on a second. So basically, from there, I I got the rights and I started taking meetings with major players in the entertainment industry. Got a bunch of deals to say the Gucci corporation which was the parent company of mochi and really the rest is history from there. I, you know, I really became a, you know, I started this agency and started representing, I started with, you know, classic intellectual properties that weren't owned by major toy companies like Mattel or Hasbro. And, you know, found them through really a lot of research and digging, you know, late nights on trademarkia looking at these, you know, who owns which trademark and all this stuff, and just tracking people down, and then it became an agency and then from there, as I started talking with entertainment companies and toy companies, I really started finding toy inventors and toy properties and started representing directly to toys. And hold on. I had one
Azhelle 12:49
question. So when you got on teaching, yeah, man, I want to ask this before you get too far down the rabbit hole. Yeah, we're down there. Yeah, when you got Monty g did you do Take your original concept and then redo it to fit the license. Yes, yeah. I loved your concept. They were just like, no one's gonna buy this because they don't know who this character is. Right? Right. Right. That
Michael 13:11
was the idea. But But the truth is they no one ever wanted to do my concept of it right? They just wanted Mancini. Like all the meetings were where they were saying, this is great, you know, but we got to be different, maybe want to do it in three days, maybe we want to do this. So no one was looking at me for the creative, you know, thrust of the thing. They were looking at it, this is a valuable intellectual property, you know, and, and so since then, so that's where it started. And kind of the rest is history. You know, I went from from doing that. And then it sort of evolved into representing toy inventors and toy creators as well. And, you know, and the licensing and selling their their, their properties, their creations to toy companies. Interesting. Payment companies and yeah, that's really what what I've been doing and it's what I love to do. It's like I would do this if I didn't make any money. I do you know, which is, which is like the icing on the cake. But yeah, you know.
Azhelle 14:14
So yeah, so I want to ask for my listeners, you know, how do you how do you work with inventors? How does the relationship work there?
Michael 14:21
So the relationship is actually quite simple. You know, it really is simple. I work on a commission basis. Okay. So I'll say to an inventor, hey, sign up with me. Right? Here's a contract, right? Let me know if anything looks, you know, if you have any questions about anything about it, and I work for you for free. Now, if I find you a deal, and you take that deal, yeah. Then I'm entitled to an agent commission. Right. It's as simple as that. So I'm out there. I have to believe in this product. Great to be able to work for free right? Because I know that there's that pot of gold at the end of the end of the rainbow. And trust me, there is that pot of gold for the right product, right? Yeah. So I guess if you're a toy inventor, you're an IP owner if you if you get a call from me, right, okay. And if or if you or if you get an email from me, you know, know that I believe in and I'm willing to go to the ends of the earth and pick up a look under every rock there is to find you a deal.
Azhelle 15:30
So if an inventor is sitting around with a toy concept, and they have maybe they've already started developing some sort of a show for it, do they have to wait to get a call from you know, a way that they can reach out to you?
Michael 15:43
Listen, I get I get, you know, emails all the time. I get, you know, messages from LinkedIn all the time and, and and they can get in touch with me. You know, my email address is up there. You know, I'm on LinkedIn, you know, and we'll put it in the show notes. You put it in the show notes. It's an You know, unfortunately, I'm always on my email. You know, I'm like all of us. Yeah, getting these messages on LinkedIn, this person wants to, you know, and, and but it's the idea that Yeah, I'm accessible because the truth is, I have to be in order to do what, what, what, what I'm doing,
Azhelle 16:17
and what kind of toy products stand out to you kind of inventor products make you say, Oh, that's interesting.
Michael 16:25
Oh, it's that's like, you know, I could talk for days about that, you know,
Azhelle 16:30
wonder is it like, Oh, they have a good following, or is it a theme? Is it just it's a theme that's hot right now or, you know, what kind of metrics are you looking at?
Michael 16:39
Um, I have to tell you, and I've said this before, okay. I am looking for great. Okay, okay. So, you know, I saw this documentary. It's called the Defiant Ones. It's about the story of Jimmy IV in and Dr. Dre and in it you know, Jimmy Ivan says, you know when he was signing mmm and he says we weren't looking for a White controversial rapper we're looking for great. So I'm never looking for, you know this or that I'm just looking for a great product or a great concept or a great intellectual property. So for example with jugglers, I wasn't looking for a plush doll with denture grade teeth. I wasn't like I was like, Where is that? Where does that fit? You know, I was looking for great. So when it comes to finding toy concepts or or animated shows or books, right, because, you know, I just signed a deal from one of my, to my clients with a major publisher. Uh huh. You know, I am looking to represent great something that I feel that will drive me will be the fuel in my fire train, pounding that pavement and calling people up and emailing people. So yeah, you got to see this. You got to see this. Yeah, and this is for you And when that happens, when you find the company that you like, when you want to have a You know, a client, and they have a property and I said, Ah, that would be great for x company, right? And then call that company or email them, and they see it right away. It's like, there's no better feeling Right, right. Feel like, yeah, I'm not so stupid.
Azhelle 18:17
I kind of know what I'm doing. Yeah, like,
Michael 18:20
yeah, you know what I mean? Like, not that, you know what I'm saying that Yeah, your hypothesis was Yes, yeah, no. And then you start thinking, Well, hey, you know, maybe I got this thing. Maybe I got this toy business. But that's where you run into, you know, never think that you've got this toy business because you're always making it. You're always making it. And then also, the truth is, you looked at this pandemic, right? in the air, but I mean, there there are people who have real big plans. I have big plans.
Azhelle 18:53
Yeah.
Michael 18:56
No, but I actually I actually, I paid it a little bit. Yeah, I did do a little bit of that. And and, you know, just talking about, you know, you talked about, like, where did this all start? And the truth of the matter is that, you know, when I started and trying to get intellectual properties and bring attention to and and stuff, you know, I sort of strayed a little bit away from that into you know, and focus solely on toys and just pitching toys to toy companies. Okay. And and I let that other part of the business sort of go because you know, that for whatever reason, it was just that that part was moving. Right in this pandemic. Entertainment must be back to entertain Yeah, I wish I could tell you what I got what I got cooking up. I literally I had a conversation today on the phone. Yeah, but with with a couple of my clients and a couple of the companies that I'm talking to you about this stuff, or that has already been set up. And I'm like, Don't look at the Have a podcast that I can I save them they go, you know, we'd rather know. And also you take a look at the contract and you're not really allowed to. And so, but I've really gone back to that. Yeah. Like, it feels so right. Yeah. What other way? Like I feel like I'm I'm, you know, back, you know back in the groove, you know of the entertainment thing. And it so I The reason why I did that during the pendant, but first of all, you see that entertainment is going crazy. I mean, yeah, any content here you need stuff to do. And this is fine. And unfortunately, I mean, I hope this last time the world has ever under lockdown, but the truth is, you know, we don't know when people are going to be stuck home again. So we need around. And it's not just content for you know, little kids or, you know, it's for every, every demo, you know, so I'm setting up a lot of stuff and entertainment from you know, toy intellectual properties and stuff like that and, and, and also shows from Animated creators who have actually done and produced great things so but once again I wish I could talk about it but yeah servings but know that it's
Azhelle 21:10
six you can talk about that specific yeah no project but maybe you can tell us about some of the best product pitches or IP pitches that you've seen. Sure I mean listen,
Michael 21:23
so I tend to not you know, see them as pitches You know, it was like like you know, okay if I if I take on a client from Kickstarter I'll see their their assets right away right right usually have a video or someone page but I mean, a lot of times it's really like, you know, with bunglers, it was like these pictures you could send in one picture, you know, and and know that this is a viable consumer product.
Azhelle 21:52
Yeah, let's talk about specifically burglars then. When did you see it? How did you see it and why did you think like, Oh, this is so thing that I need to get into? Sure.
Michael 22:03
Well, I mean, once again, it ticked that box of great, you know, I was out one night I was on Facebook, right? So it was probably, you know, you could imagine a couple years ago because I'm very rarely on Facebook. You know, people who aren't friends with on Facebook much think I'm dead or something, you know. Anyway, so I read an article about a plush doll that's that had real teeth, supposedly real teeth and there was people commenting saying like, this is disgusting kids, parents are sending their teeth, you know, into into this lady and she's making these dolls. Well, anyways, I realized that this probably not using real teeth, but right. Probably illegal. So I immediately recognized that as you know, a property that had mass market appeal and genuine licensing potential but also that had the ability to get people talking right and controversy about a night Literally picture in my mind's eye the retailers that would carry it. So I say you this is this is a product and, and so I actually found Louise McKittrick who created Flagler Mm hmm. There was a couple days later and I called her up.
Azhelle 23:18
And at that point was she selling it anywhere?
Michael 23:20
So she was selling it. She was selling it online. Right. You know, she was making them one at a time. Wow. She is amazing person she is she is. I mean a genius. A genius, a genius, a genius. She was you know, she was an author, a published author before and she just stumbled on doing these dolls like it was real inspiration. And you know, I told her Listen, I this is what I do. I think that we can get this license and she said, Great. And you know, she signed up as a client and I started reaching out to toy companies and Spin Master right away got it like they Got it.
Azhelle 24:00
Amazing. That would be the hard part. Yeah, take risks. That's what it is.
Michael 24:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and I negotiated a really great deal for Louise and, and really she's living happily ever after I talked to her. I try to talk to her pretty often I actually am hoping she's got something else cooking up and I don't want to give anything away. Well, you know, we'll see.
Azhelle 24:26
That's That's great. So they just saw it right away you negotiated for her and that was it.
Michael 24:31
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm sort of shortening the story.
Azhelle 24:38
We could do a four hour No, I just wanted to that simple it's as simple as just having a great product she didn't have to build I mean, she obviously had a product that shared conversation she had sales yet
Michael 24:48
sales she had there was there was like you know, morning you know like Regis and Kelly kind of thing that in the UK. I don't remember the name. There was like a the top kind of show but in UK. Yeah, they were picking this stuff up like, like it was going viral on its own. Oh, that's okay. So So basically, she and it would actually suck when it went viral because that means her inbox would be just totally flooded with requests for foggers. And she person he was never gonna be, you know, yeah, that's the same thing with were pups, which is another property that I represent that we just got licensed. And I don't I don't know if I'm allowed to even say to who, but it's one of those things where it goes viral every now and again. You know, Vice picks up a story because they see it on the New York Post, right? And then all of a sudden, her email is flooded. You know, it's these little werewolf babies. I don't know, you
Azhelle 25:46
know, that's something that I've been working on. How to explain to my listeners. I've been doing a lot of episodes about Kickstarter lately. Yeah. And it's because I've noticed that it's just a lot easier. to sell your toy product, when you can build some sort of like social following, and you kind of build the marketability of it and you and it's like proof, it's almost like even when you don't have like, maybe you don't have a thousands of sales, but if you have like thousands of comments and, and hundreds of thousands of shares or something like that, that you can garner some interest in your toy product that way, and you believe that that's true. And that's how you look
Michael 26:24
at. I don't know, I don't you know, it's like, like, so first of all, the actual toy manufacturer, the one that we're licensing to has to see it, right. So we could have one follower, and they could still see it. Yeah, that's true. You know what I mean, or that's true, 2 million followers, and they could say, this is not for us. So like, I'm interesting, you know, I wish I had all the answers, you know, but I mean, like, like, no, like, this is gonna work. This is gonna work. This is gonna work. But literally no one has those answers. And anyone who tells you those that they have them there. Yeah. Yeah, no, like everybody's just working on instinct, right? And you hone your instincts. Well, I mean, we talked, I don't remember if we were actually on air when we were talking about it, but, you know, I'm reading books on toy history, I'm looking at this stuff. I mean, you know, I have a huge toy collection, you know, myself and I, I try to follow what's happened before to try and predict what can happen next. I mean, then you're at a you're at a loss, right? So, you know, so anyone who says this product is gonna fly off the shelves? Well, they're either they're either psychic, which I think has been proven. There's no one who said
Azhelle 27:40
hey, I don't know man, sometimes I'm a little bit psychic. So
Michael 27:46
but maybe we have a whole other a whole other. But, um, but or they're lying because or they're just super confident. But you know, the truth is, we don't know. There's so many Many companies just spend so much money on marketing, manufacturing, all this stuff. And the toy actually flops right? It doesn't go anywhere, you know, so, I don't know, I it's more about quantity a little bit like you want to try to get as many ideas that you can out to the right people seems to be a lot of spaghetti at the wall. Right? That's certainly my, my approach, right? You know, I don't stick I just know what I think might stick.
Azhelle 28:27
But when you're pitching, do you feel like it's an it's important or it's helpful when the products that you're pitching have some sort of like brand story behind them and the characters have a story or is it more like mechanism based like what do you what do you find?
Michael 28:43
Once again, there's no hard and fast You know, like I that's why I go by the rule of like, you know, you know, great isn't great, isn't great, like, I mean, is the mechanism really great. Can it be applied to like a bunch of licenses? Can it be applied to you No, is the toy. Great? like is that is a design great. And that's really what I go for. So, you know, sometimes I'm surprised, you know, but but well I'm surprised every day actually what I'm, I'm always surprised because no one knows anything. And I think that's like an old adage from, I think from the entertainment business. I think there's a book written I can't it doesn't come to me right now. But there was a guy who was I think it wrote a book on screenwriting. He said, No one knows anything. You know, and that's, and that's the thing. So I go by that rule, or maybe I just don't know anything, but I think I
Azhelle 29:35
know, but if you get a gut instinct, which, in my mind is a little bit of a psychic instinct, but whatever
Michael 29:43
it was, you know, I don't believe in psychics, but Yeah, you do. I mean,
Azhelle 29:48
I believe in myself. Okay. I believe I believe in my instincts, okay. I believe in your essay, right. Got a great podcast. Oh, well, thank you. I think you've done some great things in the toilet. History as well. Oh, thank you. I mean, you have to I haven't, you know, found any gold licenses like this. So, maybe one day some time. Give me one day. Yeah. I'm curious, like, how would you you told us that people can contact you either LinkedIn or emails, but how would you want them to pitch products you because I'm sure you get a ton of emails, you don't want to be reading like a four page dissertation about a product. So how do you want to receive pitches? I mean, it's email is great. You could you
Michael 30:31
you know, he like words, images we want Well, I mean, really, like the best thing is his little sizzle videos to see what it is right? Yeah, you know, and even if it's just shot on your iPhone to show how it works, you know, but really, you know, send me an email with some information about the product, whatever it is, or the intellectual property and, and, and let's start a conversation there. As you could tell, like I'm a, you know, I like to talk. You know, I love Talking on the phone. I'm on it all day long. Yeah, fortunately or unfortunately. And these days, obviously zoom. And, you know, a lot of people are comment, you know, commenting on my toy collection, because it's right there.
Azhelle 31:13
I saw that. Yeah, we first started. That looks so cool.
Michael 31:16
Yeah. So so like, people are like, Whoa, you know, like you don't realize until you see it up there. People like, Whoa, so you're really serious about you
Azhelle 31:23
are in it.
Michael 31:24
And I was on a call with a network the other day and they were like, do you have this? And I'm like, No, but I'll get you one. And I called up a toy designer. And I was like, you got to get this guy in Nickelodeon. This toy. And because he's a fan, and we got it to happen. Yeah, yeah.
Azhelle 31:43
So you're pitching over zoom right now.
Michael 31:45
Pitching over zoom.
Azhelle 31:47
How's that going?
Michael 31:48
I think it's fine.Yeah, I think if anything, it proves that, you know, maybe you don't have to jump on a flight. I know. Yeah. Well, a that day and And then hop on a ride. I'd get back home for another meeting in Toronto then yes,
Azhelle 32:04
yeah. Yeah. Maybe sending you prototypes to your house. You can like hold it up in the zoom meeting and yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. I love to hear that.
Michael 32:13
Yeah. Yeah. And And, look, that's the truth. I really think that we're so blessed to have this technology, you know, time. And, you know, even if you explain this to people in the toy industry, you know, in the in the 60s 70s or 80s, and said, there's gonna you could pick these blow people's minds. Right, you know, so I think we should use it while we have. I agree. Yeah.
Azhelle 32:37
I agree. I think you even get a little bit more focus from people because I haven't had to be they haven't had to have been traveling all day. So when they sit down to have that call with you, they're they're zoned in because it's like, literally just that time if there's no in between, and sometimes they just rolled out of bed or right. No. Yeah, it feels more personal. Ooh, how can I ask you how Often you pitch concepts to your contacts.
Michael 33:03
And as often as I have clients to to pitch stuff, right, and so I'm on a on a weekly basis, maybe I'm pitching about four new concepts that different toy companies. Right, great. Yeah. So it's a steady stream. Right. And yeah, you know, I just think that you know, now listen, you know, some people would think, oh, now it's challenging. Maybe now's not the right time to do this. Right. But there's toy companies out there, they're doing great. No, yeah, during this pandemic. And listen, there are some that are not and it's very sad and and and I feel for those people, but there's some toy companies that are really doing great. And so you know, you can still sell
Azhelle 33:47
there are some stores open some some countries are still are reopening now to Oh, absolutely. Nationally,
Michael 33:55
I was on a zoom with with one of my clients in France and he just got a haircut and I was like, I was like, like, I'd opened up and, you know, I got a haircut and I was like, okay, so there's, you know, things are starting to open up.
Azhelle 34:09
I'm about a few days from like buying some scissors and doing my boyfriend's hair. So I'm a little nervous. Okay, my wife, my hair twice. She didn't look good. Yeah.
Michael 34:18
And yeah, she did a great job.
Azhelle 34:21
She sent me the video she used she didn't.
Michael 34:24
She didn't do a video. She just just pure instinct.
Azhelle 34:27
She didn't.
Michael 34:28
Yeah, she did. She's Oh, no, yeah, no,
Azhelle 34:32
I'm very type a I mean,
Michael 34:34
I don't have that much hair either. Like, really mess it up, you know?
Azhelle 34:37
Oh, man, she did a great job.
Michael 34:40
Oh, thanks. I appreciate it. Although I don't know.
Azhelle 34:43
I'm curious also, like, Do you often repitch products select say they see it the first time and they're like no, and you go back to your event? And you say look, they said no, but I have this feeling. If you do XYZ maybe we can repeat it in a different way or to a different category or something. Oh, yeah.
Michael 34:58
I mean, well, look You know, I've brought and I brought stuff. I think it works a little bit differently. So if somebody says no, sometimes you'll go back and and, you know, certainly an entertainment there, you know, things change so much is right organizationally. So it'd be like, yeah, they said no to this a couple years ago, and then they have an option agreement from them, you know, a couple months later when someone else is there, but it works the opposite way to if they shuffled around, maybe had something set up and then now it's no longer there. But there's, you know, I love when a company, you know, doesn't answer an email, right, let's say, right? They don't answer an email, okay? And of this new product, or whatever it is, and then they email me back a couple months later say, Oh, you know what, I didn't know. Let's talk about this. Let's call it I'm like, Yeah, actually, that'll be on the shelves. In about a month. Oh, you're a little late on that one. Oh, you know, I actually, it's not that I love that because it's actually Makes me feel, you know, bad, but it makes me feel that like, Okay, if you're right one company, yeah. You know, but, but yeah, so yeah, you know, we I pitch stuff to people say flat out no I do not get this like with the handlers there was a guy I'm not gonna say his name Yeah. Who I was pitching to as like and they were like an entertainment you know also Consumer Products Company. Yeah. And I said hey, check this out I think it's like awesome. It's great. You know, I could see the retailers I could see entertainment attached to it and he's like, this is disgusting, not me. I would love to pull up an email right now. And he's like, do not send me a sample.
Azhelle 36:49
No.
Michael 36:51
Yeah, yeah. You know, oh, it's gross, you know? So it really elicited I love when products elicit a response in emotional Like a strong emotional response. Yeah, it is. Because the truth is some people will love it. Some people will hate it. Yes, but but it will make noise either. Yeah,
Azhelle 37:09
it'shard to stand out.
Michael 37:11
You got to make noise. And with toys, you got to do it through the design, right? The marketing, whatever it is, but there's so many you know, it hurts my heart when I see generic toys on the on the show. Right? You know, like a guy loves toys, you know? Yeah, you know, when it's
Azhelle 37:30
no one cared to just put that little bit of extra effort
Michael 37:33
in something in there. They're gonna remember when he's older and or she's gonna remember when she's older and say, Oh, that was really special. That was really amazing about that. The box that came in Yeah, or or the design of the actual product. So yeah, when I walk into a store and I say cheese, man, this these kids aren't getting, you know what they want, but maybe I'm on one of the only ones No, I don't know.
Azhelle 38:00
No, I feel that way too. It's sad. You see? And also, I mean, as a someone that works in the industry, I'm like, what company is hiring these people? Oh my god, someone's job. This is terrible, man.
Michael 38:14
Yeah. Or when you already get like, a, you know, a deck back from a company like doing they're showing you this is this is what we've done with it. Yes. I'm like, Yeah, looks like it. Should I be working like
Azhelle 38:32
a standard?
Michael 38:34
I can't do everything. You know what I mean? I so um, but But yeah, so I stay in my lane. But,
Azhelle 38:41
you know, I'm still identify when people aren't living up to their full potential.
Michael 38:45
Sure, but I would I would never say because everyone's on their own journey right now.
Azhelle 38:50
I don't want it. Yeah. I mean, no, that's true. I see. Things that I did when I first started out that I'm like, why did they let that hit the market? Yeah. Like I guess everyone
Michael 39:00
They did. Yeah.
Azhelle 39:02
But yeah, I'm actually curious to talk about how you represent different people. Because when we what we said in the beginning, you do designers and authors, animators, and I mean, there's so many different facets. Would you mind talking a little bit about what's different about representing like a designer to an author to an IP owner to an illustrator, like things like that?
Michael 39:22
Well, I mean, it's, it's only different in where we're pitching to. Uh huh. Right. So if an author or an illustrator, you know, has an idea, we're going to pitch it to a publisher, right? And then when we get it published, we're going to take those rights and we're going to pitch it to an entertainment company, right. And when you're working with designers and toy inventors, and all that stuff, we're, we're generally pitching to toy manufacturers. If it's somebody if it's, you know, an animation studio or you know, someone who's created an animation pitch or sizzle, we're pitching to animation studios, we're pitching to producers, we're pitching to networks in some cases, so it really just depends on who I'll be pitching it to. But the same thing remains that, you know, all my clients I, I try to pride myself on the fact that they all become friends because we're, we're kind of working together, we're working business together. And, and we're, we're building these relationships, and I had no idea you have so many contacts in so many different industries. You're not just a toy person, no, no, everything person No, I am and everything person, I appreciate that. It's true. And because I think all of those, all of those sort of categories, you know, publishing, entertainment, and consumer products, toys, you know, they're all connected. Yeah. You know, for better or for worse, right. Yeah. And, and the truth of the matter is, you know, at the end of the day, I want to believe in myself. client's project, whatever that is, and I will go to the ends of the earth to make it happen. So for example, I've had clients in the past where they've had a product and, you know, maybe no one wants a license, and I'm like, this is great. Yeah, I'm just gonna go to a retailer, I am going to sell it to them. You're not you're not a sales rep. I don't care, man. You know, and I've sold stuff like I, you know, I've picked up the baton and I've said, Okay, we're doing that. So yeah, and, and, and I've done it successfully. I've sold it off topic sold and did sugar sold it to several other regions. And it's the idea that, you know, if you have me as an agent that you are getting someone who believes in your stuff. I would not be attached to it. Right. You know, I get pitches all the time, that are not something that I would take on right now could have a conversation about it. I'm happy to give advice and I'm happy to help Anyway, cat, but maybe I'm not gonna be your agent, right? But if I am your agent Trust me. I'm gonna I don't know if we could swear on i
Azhelle 42:09
don't i but try not to swear on
Michael 42:12
my butt, right? Trying to get it out there trying to get a deal in whatever way we can for you.
Azhelle 42:19
Yeah, I'm certainly to figure out what your great is I feel like your greatest something that's going to start conversation, something that's going to be remembered when a child grows up so it's something it's going to create memories for them so far. That's what I've pulled out from the things you're saying. Let's see what else I can.
Michael 42:33
Well look, I asked you like your toys that you loved as a kid? Mm hmm. What were they Polly Pocket I was always asked. C'est so so you know if someone gave you the opportunity to work on Polly Pocket, you will drop everything and do it even I would die. Yeah, like he said, You know so it has some special place in your heart. So no like that is something that's so intangible and such like a special warm feeling you know, so I want to work on those classic intellectual properties I want to bring the back or new ones that will have that same impression yes down the road so I just see the magic and toys and and kids entertainment and publishing and animation, because I remember so fondly when I was a kid, right? Yeah, like cartoons, you know? And, you know, all those great toys and those commercials that would stick in your head like skip it and stuff and like Yeah, I just I don't know if you saw I just bought a pogo ball. No office. Yeah, like really? I didn't see that. Yeah, but anyway, like any any Yeah, all those commercials, all those all those products. So yeah. So really, I think that you know, you have to remember those great toys that you had when you were a kid and and just remember that feeling and somehow try to bring that back, either with that same intellectual property or bring back or bring a new issue. Actual property or product onto the market that will give the end consumer kid that same feeling later on. Yes,
Azhelle 44:09
I have one final question. It just came to me for this kind of came to me was, I noticed a lot of inventors. What they tend to invent when they're not toy people, they're coming from outside the industry. They're coming in for first time. Yeah, usually the toys that they invent tend to be like, very educational or very, like problem solving. Or maybe they feel like maybe it's like super steam related focusing on girls and women. But I feel like there's always this that what you're speaking about, like that connection to like childhood just like fun and joy missing? Yes. You know, what, do you agree with
Michael 44:44
I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah, I have a master's degree in education.
Azhelle 44:50
Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right. You said that. Yeah, I
Michael 44:53
don't even like want my toys with that in there and people will listen to People will listen to this podcast say, this idiot this guy's an ad No, a toy is fun. And it's an imaginative playing. There's a play pattern there. And so, you know, yeah, I think and like, I don't want to disparage anyone because you know, I almost
Azhelle 45:15
felt like more of it's a it's a collectible more than is that
Michael 45:19
one hour I think once you start trying to jam in all these different sort of things really what they're trying to do is just trying to add a level of, you know, I guess like you need this toy because, you know, it can teach something you know, by really like AR is that what toys are about like, are those Let me ask you Are those the toys that sell hundreds of millions of dollars worth of merchandise every year?
Azhelle 45:47
Or then unless it's science? No.
Michael 45:51
Or Are those the toys that sort of make a little bit of some noise on Kickstarter, you know, yeah, and then and then die out. never become anything you know? Yeah.
Azhelle 46:01
I think if you want to go education, you got to make it like sassy or something. Or you know what I mean? Like, really sassy.
Michael 46:08
There's got to be some amazing hook in there. Well, yeah, I'm not saying that a steam toy can be the next big thing. That's not what I'm saying. No, it's still got to have that magic. It's still got it has
Azhelle 46:21
to be play first.
Michael 46:23
Right? Yeah. I think you're 100% right on that. And yeah, as you can tell how great I am with my numbers.
Azhelle 46:32
I say 100% all the time. That means I'm fully in.
Michael 46:36
But But yeah, shot I have that magic, you know? Yeah. And I think I you know, so, listen, I don't know. I feel like I've said it all. But I know you have set it off. I feel like I could talk all
Azhelle 46:48
day. I know. I'm sorry. I was enjoying it. I was like, I feel like we're onto something here. I wanted to keep it big. Yeah, we're so close. There's something coming out. Yeah, this was great. I'm so glad to have you on the show.
Michael 47:01
Yeah, it was a lot of fun, you know? And I like I said, You know, I love the podcast. I hope everybody tunes in and subscribes and all that stuff. Because
Azhelle 47:11
the heard him
Michael 47:12
nobody, you know, there, there's so little dialogue that goes on about the toy industry. It's saying, and I don't know if I've shed light on anything today, I think, you know,
Azhelle 47:24
no, I think you have for sure.
Michael 47:25
Well, I don't know if I have, but I know that I like I said, I had probably what's equal to eight cups of coffee before talking to you? And I'm just sort of, you know, just don't but I think that the more dialogue we have about this thing, you know, the toy industry, the better and I think that I have to give you a big, you know, kudos to getting out there and, and creating a podcast that talks about this stuff. And I'm a fan I'll be tuning in. I might not really listen to this episode. No,
Azhelle 47:52
you'll
Michael 47:53
be ground to my own voice
Azhelle 47:55
now. It's gonna be great.
Michael 47:56
Yeah. And but I appreciate it. And I've had A lot of fun here today.
Azhelle 48:01
Oh, thanks. It's been great having you. I've learned some things. I'm sure my listeners have learned a lot. And you were going to be getting some pitches. Oh telling you it's coming in. Yeah. So all right. I'm going to try to dissect this conversation and define to them what greatest so they can make sure they're great. Okay.
Michael 48:18
Well, thank you so much. And listen, stay healthy. And you too.
Azhelle 48:23
Yeah, we'll talk soon. Talk soon. Okay. Well, there you have it. I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation with Michael Goodman. This Convo was really great to me because Michael came in and highlighted the value of a toy agent or salesperson to push your toy ideas. You could have a great toy idea. But if you don't have a well connected sales partner to market and license your toy game or IP concepts to the right people at the right companies, your idea could sit around gathering dust when it really needs To be in the hands of your target market. Okay, so the fantastic invaluable takeaway that I want you to take from this episode is that Michael shared his contact information with me to give to you my listeners. So to grab his email address, just head over to thetoycoach.com forward slash 32 right now and write up your best product pitch to catch his eye. Michael is going to be straightforward with you. So if you're not a right fit, you're gonna know but remember toy people don't get discouraged. This industry is all about timing and trends. It is cyclical, your time will come if you work super hard towards it. And in the meantime, I'm going to be doing my best to let you know about the most passionate toy sales people in the game through this podcast. Now it's time once again for a listener spotlight. My favorite part of the show I hope it's becoming yours too. Today I want to share with you a toy line by a fellow listener of this podcast, Andrew Dunn and you're done is the self proclaimed Big Cheese and head honcho of box Ed's papercrafts Andrews line was inspired by his kids love of Lego and Minecraft, and allows children to build their own boxy world with his papercrafts Andrew sells his product on box EDS papercrafts COMM And Etsy with an affordable opening price point of $5. Not to mention, Andrew also donates 50% of his sales to charities. Ah, such a great guy. Now, if you love Minecraft, or Lego, check out his product line it might be great for your kids. It's almost Minecraft come to life. I think the illustration style and the boxy die lines. It's really fantastic. So you can either go directly to his website or just go to thetoycoach.com forward slash 32 and I will link you there. As always, thank you so much for joining me here today toy people. I know you have your choice of podcast so it really means the world to me that you tune into this one. If you haven't already done so, and you love this podcast, please show me your love on Apple podcasts. Those positive reviews help other toy people like yourself, find this podcast, so make sure you leave a message leave a positive review for me. I really appreciate knowing that you appreciate all the work that I put in here. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.
Intro/Outro + Jingle 51:49
Thanks for listening to Making It in The Toy Industry podcast with Azhelle Wade, head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips and advice
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🎓Learn more about how you can develop and pitch your toy idea with Toy Creators Academy® by clicking here to visit toycreatorsacademy.com and join the waitlist.
Episode Breakdown
In this episode, we were introduced to who a toy licensing agent is, what their work entails, and licensing your great toy ideas with Michael Goldman.
What is a Licensing Agent and What do They Do?
A toy licensing agent, also referred to as a toy broker or toy buying agent, is someone who aids an inventor in the process of getting their products to their desired end-users through their contacts in the industry. They help inventors get a toy license - a type of product licensing that protects a creators intellectual property rights while giving the desired company the right to sell the product through the designated plans.
A toy licensing agent helps open up the route for companies to confidently approach inventors to express their interest in a product with the belief that they can strike a deal.
A toy buying agent will then help with deal negotiations, pushing for favorable terms for clients and in general, defining what a good deal is. Overall, they will help you answer the question of how to license your idea.
As an example, Michael mentioned toy ideas he was interested in based off of kickstarter's or sizzle reels he viewed. When he reached out to those inventors, he would find that some had no toy licensing agents and hadn't sold their items, or even signed a deal. They may not have even known how to license their ideas, much less pitching to big companies. He helped find deals for the toys he believed were worth it. While inventors may be great at their craft, having the contacts in the industry and knowing how to sell, market, and license a toy to the right company is a different skillset that takes effort to hone.
How to Pitch Your Product Idea to a Toy Company?
When it comes to the question of how to pitch an invention, at least to Michael, he thinks the best thing are sizzle reels, even if they are just shot through a phone rather than a professional camera. These videos give licensors a great idea as to what the product looks like and how it works. Sending this reel through an email with information about the product or intellectual property starts off the conversation so well. Once you get through this first step, a toy broker can open the door to connecting you to designers and then companies who could love your idea.
When this Podcast was recorded, the pandemic had uprooted everyone's lives. But when there is a will there is a way and toy inventors found a way to keep bringing their ideas forward: through Zoom pitches. These calls proved that the strenuous process of jumping on flights to go pitch your ideas all over the world, a process that can lead to burnout, a lack of passion, or even time, for inventors, wasn't the only way to get your idea out there. Some creators even sent Michael their prototypes to his home so they could explain it to him in real time over Zoom.
Frequently Asked Questions
Q: How do I license a product idea?
A: If you are wondering how to license an idea, look no further! In the simplest form, it would be best to pitch your idea to a licensing agent first. They can evaluate your pitch and help you straighten out any loose ends before going on to present your work to plausible companies. Licensing agents can provide you with their connections in the toy industry to help you present your ideas to companies interested in you, leading to possible deals and, as the deal is confirmed, an idea/product license.
Q: What is a toy broker?
A: A toy broker is the same thing as a toy licensing agent or a toy buying agent. Most people in the toy industry, however, refer to them as a toy licensing agent.
Q: How can I start a toy business?
A: Starting a toy business all begins with a great idea. Watch The Toy Coach Podcast Episode 1: Unlocking Your Great Toy Ideas to get an idea of how you should build the base of your idea. Then, watch Episode 2: How To Make Your Toy Idea More Toyetic to analyze whether your idea is toyetic enough.
