#223: Unlock Your Game Design Potential with April Mitchell
Have you EVER had an idea for a game? This episode is for you. 🫵
Well, don't miss this Part 2 continuation from episode 221, an interview with April Mitchell! April, a licensed game inventor and co-creator of the Tabletop Game Design Masterclass shares her journey from toy industry newbie to a game design expert. Get ready to giggle along as April shares the story of finding her pitch theme song and why she plays that song before every pitch to this day.
April dives into the game design process, emphasizing the importance of having a minimum viable playable and demonstrable prototype before pitching your game. April insists that playtesting your game dozens of times is more important than making your prototype look pretty.
This episode reveals insider tips on game mechanics, cost-effective playtesting, and the nuances of pitching to both large and small companies. April and Azhelle discuss the rapidly growing trend of self-publishing and how it’s democratizing the game design industry, creating new opportunities for aspiring designers. They also share personal stories on maintaining a positive outlook and self-worth in the competitive world of game design.
If you’re ready to change up your approach to game design, visit https://www.thetoycoach.com/gameon to join the Tabletop Game Design Masterclass!
Episode Cliff Notes
Find out how many times April’s mentor told her to playtest her game.
Learn April Mitchell's strategies for positive self-talk and how she aligns her thoughts with her faith.
Discover the secrets behind the Tabletop Game Design Masterclass, created by April Mitchell and Ed Garten, and how it can revolutionize your game design journey.
Hear Azhelle Wade discuss her belief in manifestation and how it shapes her professional and personal life.
Find out why having a playable and demonstrable prototype is crucial, and get their top tips for cost-effective playtesting without overspending.
Learn about the democratization of the game industry and how smaller companies are creating new opportunities for game designers.
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Learn more about The Tabletop Game Design Masterclass by clicking here.
Connect with April Mitchell on LinkedIn
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Azhelle Wade [00:00:00]:
You are listening to making it in the toy industry. Episode number 223.
Jingle [00:00:09]:
Welcome to making it in the toy industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now your host, Ajel Wade.
Azhelle Wade [00:00:22]:
Hey there, toy people. Agelle Wade here. And welcome back to another episode of making it in the toy industry. In this week's episode, we are picking back up from our part one episode. I know you have been waiting a while for this. With April Mitchell, a prolific inventor and designer from four A's Creations, LLC, April is one of the first creators to have a program on Toycourses.com. and in part one, episode 221, April shared her journey from licensing products in the housewares industry to making her mark in the toy and game industry. Without having any design experience or cad design experience, April discussed the challenges she faced and the strategies she used to stand out in the toy market.
Azhelle Wade [00:01:07]:
So we got into her process of partnering with inventors, the dynamics of those partnerships, and how you can use what she's learned to help determine whether you should collaborate on a project or go solo. So those insights were incredibly valuable. If you haven't heard that podcast yet, head over to thetoycoach.com 221 and listen to that before you continue with today's episode. So without further ado, here is part two of my interview with April Mitchell. Now, I want to know, you decided to create a course called tabletop game design masterclass, teaching people how to design tabletop games and pitch them to toy companies. Why did you decide to do that?
April Mitchell [00:01:51]:
Yes. So both Ed Garten and I are all about educating. Like I said before, I am an educator by trade at heart. And Ed had mentored me when I used to pitch to him. I remember the second time I pitched to him after the pitch, he said, okay, get out your notebook. I said, okay. He said, I'm going to pitch to you how I want you to pitch to me. And learning that now every company is going to be a little bit different.
April Mitchell [00:02:20]:
But learning what he wanted from me as an inventor, as a designer, in that pitch, was so critical because I felt like I was empowered. I knew what they were looking for. I knew what that company wanted. And so then with that, followed up a few emails with feedback, and I kept presenting new things. And again, he mentored me. And slowly that became into a, you know, came into a friendship, and we had done a couple webinars together, you know, for different groups, inventor groups, on how to pitch and how to pitch with flair. Sometimes I don't always wear crazy costumes or anything like that. But once in a while, something will call for it.
April Mitchell [00:03:06]:
And we thought we were getting all these questions from other inventors, and we started doing little videos on LinkedIn, and people seemed to really, really like that, and people really were enjoying the webinars we were doing. So we thought, let's. Let's put a course together of everything we know collectively, right? And so he had the background as a product developer, marketing. He's done that as inventor relations. And then I had the background as an educator, but also, newbie. Inventor knows nothing, then licensed several, several ideas. Right. So everything I've learned.
April Mitchell [00:03:47]:
So we thought, let's put this together in a course. And what we did was we taught it live the first two years, which was fantastic, but we wanted to keep it small so it was manageable and we could meet with people and we could really zone in on our students. And so that went really, really well. And at that same time, we had students in different countries that were waking up at, like two or four in the morning to take the course. And it was just really difficult to fit in everyone's time schedule. So we thought, how could we do this where we could allow people to take the course whenever was convenient for them? And that's when we decided, let's do an online course. We didn't know how we were going to do it, but we knew we wanted to do it. And then, of course, we were chatting at dinner with you, jell.
April Mitchell [00:04:35]:
And that was, I actually did a.
Azhelle Wade [00:04:37]:
Whole podcast episode on this conversation, by the way. I did an entire podcast episode on how partnerships can come to be. And I talked about this. Yes.
April Mitchell [00:04:45]:
It's just so remarkable. Like, you know, we were needing this. You were specializing this, right? And that whole thing of, like, what someone's good at the marketing. You've got the following. You've already had the platform, everything set up. And we thought, okay, we both have other jobs, right? I'm inventing full time Ed's inventor relations for a company and then venting part time. And so how can we do this to fit into our schedules? And it just seemed like a perfect match, like it was gonna work well together. And I'm really, really proud of the course and how the content is and what we've all done together on it.
April Mitchell [00:05:26]:
And so we're just really excited to see people all over the world be able to take the course now. And the course really is amazing, because, again, it is everything we know. We're not keeping anything from anyone, right. We're sharing all our tips from ideation and creation and how the techniques of how we brainstorm all the way to how we. The importance of playtesting and all the guides we give people, all the printables, or you can get the workbook, of course, too, but all the steps in the hashing out and figuring things out and the importance of the game mechanics and learning all of these things that are so integral when developing a game. So it's so fun to have been able to put this all together for people. And then, of course, what I've gotten to be pretty decent at is, you know, the videos and the sizzle videos and pitching and how I set things up and the pitch decks and all those things that I think are, can really make or break a pitch when you're, you know, pitching to a company. And so they're a really, really important part of the masterclass.
April Mitchell [00:06:37]:
And we just want to share everything because we feel like we can better the community, right? We can just kind of up the game of everybody. When you're teaching others what we know, whether they're completely new to game design or whether they have had licenses. We've had people take our course that have worked at major toy companies before. We have had people take our course before that, have licensed, use several products already. But it's always good to learn new things, new techniques and different ways people are doing things, because I think it can spark creativity, it can give you a whole new outlook, and it could just totally turn things around for you as well. So we're excited to help everyone from any stage, wherever they're at in their game design.
Azhelle Wade [00:07:29]:
Yeah, it's great as a continuing ed course if you already work in the toy industry. I even found it inspiring for me, thinking about toy. And then it's obviously a great place to start if you've never had any game experience before. But I really, when you were bringing the course onto my platform, we met and we recorded it, like, every Saturday for what felt like months. But it was so good. Like every recording, I was like, oh, this is good. Oh, this one's good, too. And every.
Azhelle Wade [00:08:04]:
It was so good. The slides are great visuals. The. What I really liked is it was. Hold on. I think it was in the, I want to say it was in the aesthetics. It was in the research phase when it was, like, inspiring your game and the different techniques you had for coming up with ideas. And then when you guys talked about ways that you could, like, visualize those ideas, I really like, I really thought that was, that was different from the way that I teach so I guess that's why I liked it.
Azhelle Wade [00:08:31]:
Cause I was like, oh, new stuff. So I really appreciated that. And the focus, like, I love. Like, obviously, my program, toy creators academy, is focused on toys, but I love that it is focused and laser focused on games. That tabletop game design masterclass is laser focused on. Are you making a board game? Are you making a game that's gonna have some plastic component to it that's gonna pop up and do something crazy? Here's how you think about the play pattern and the structure and the naming and all that. I just think it's great to have something focused on just games, if that's what you want to focus on.
April Mitchell [00:09:03]:
Thank you. Well, and I think what's unique about this course, too, is we take one idea and take it all the way through the course. So you see the ideation part of it. You see how it changes. You see how the play testing changes, how we tweak the game. You see the aesthetics, like you said, the changing. You see the theme change. And then once the theme is set, see how the aesthetics are, you know, developed and, like, how, you know, just simple things of, like, where the number is on the side of a card, you know, in the corner of a card, or the lettering coloring is so important that, yeah, you know, someone starting out with or someone even who's been doing it sometime may not think about it, you know? So to take that all the way through, to see it, you know, all the way to the end phase stage, I think is really important because you have that example while you're also working on your own concept.
April Mitchell [00:09:59]:
So it's not just saying, here's what to do, but we're showing you those changes and the development of a game, which I think is huge in this because you're not just learning and trying to figure it out on your own. You're learning all these steps, and you have all these homeworks to do is to get you to the end game, but you also are watching it live in front of you.
Azhelle Wade [00:10:23]:
Yeah, it's really great to see, like, the same game with two different aesthetics, because you see how, I think one of the cards versions that you had was, like, brown and the other one was, like, colorful. And it's just a very good reminder of how important aesthetics are, how it can make a game that is supposed to be young and youthful and cheery, to look, like, almost archaic and, like, you know, old worldly, you know? And so, yeah, that's a great part of the. Of the course as well. So where do you think that the game industry is headed now that you've been in it for some time, you've seen it change a little bit, what do you think is going to be happening? You've seen companies combine even in your time in this industry, right?
April Mitchell [00:11:01]:
Yeah, you know, that's really interesting. And I think, I think it's anyone's guess because what I've been seeing is more smaller companies popping up and growing. So you see, I, like you said, you see a lot of companies buying other companies, and at the same time, you see companies who maybe had five, six, Skus now having ten or twelve, and now they're opening up to outside inventors, which is really exciting for me and should be exciting for other people. I also recently went to gamma because I wanted to learn about self publishing. And I think that's important to know is even though, you know, we talk about licensing a lot in our course, we also have people who are going to self publishing route, which, you know, we give some, also some tips and when presenting and how things are a little bit different when presenting that way. And I think this course, it's the exact same. You would just have really finalized art where, you know, when you're, when you're going to self publish, where, you know, when you're licensing, you don't have to have the finalized artwork. Right.
April Mitchell [00:12:07]:
So there's a few tweaks and changes that you would do if you're going to self publish. But the reason I mention self publish is I think, you know, the doors open to people for self publishing and those, those companies that are self publishing. And again, starting with their handful of games, I think they're growing. There's a number of them out there, and I think we're going to see more and more of them grow and be open to outside designers. And I think I wouldn't be surprised if more designers who, who license like I do are also open to self publishing, maybe doing both, maybe going to self publishing as well, because there's, there's a lot of games out there that the world doesn't know about, just that are fantastic hits. But they just didn't feel like some companies didn't feel like they were mass market. You know, whatever the reason may be that the theme didn't hit home or one mechanic was missing, but who knows how many thousands or people would love the game. And I just had seen on LinkedIn this week, and I congratulated this company, and I wish I could remember their name right now, but they sell their games on Amazon and just hit selling their 2,000,000th game.
Azhelle Wade [00:13:25]:
Wow.
April Mitchell [00:13:25]:
And they're not a huge game company, but they sold 2 million games. And I would be a static to sell 2 million games, you know, like, oh my gosh, that would be huge.
Azhelle Wade [00:13:35]:
Well, first I want to say, in case anyone's listening and they're like, I want to keep learning from April. Go to thetoycoach.com game on, or go to the mention in this episode area of this podcast and you can look for the links from this episode. But I feel like everything you're saying, it's kind of leading me to think the future of the game industry is going to be, I don't know if the right term would be to say democratize, actually. It's gonna like the wealth is gonna be spread out because what's happening is it's becoming easier thanks to people shopping online and Amazon, thanks to AI and automations, it's becoming easier for people to start up and sell their own products. And like you're saying these big companies are growing and doing better with their, with their three skus, maybe their ten skus. So while the big four are like getting bigger and bigger, what we are seeing, most companies, their revenues are actually dipping. And is that because it's like the market share is being taken by all these little guys, right? Like there's all these little companies taking little pieces of the market share, little pieces. And if they hold on to it, what's going to happen is that the roof is going to just be a little bit lower for the big guys.
Azhelle Wade [00:14:49]:
I think they'll be okay. And there'll be more opportunities with all these small companies to license too. Because, I mean, I don't know if you agree with this, but I'd met with this inventor at Shytag and he was telling me, you know, honestly, he's like, the big companies, they're the hardest to license to. He's going to take you a while. You're going to have to build these relationships. It's not quick. He's like, if you want a license soon, you should look at the small companies. And I wonder, you know, I just wish that more people were open to these small companies.
Azhelle Wade [00:15:19]:
So many people come to me and I'm sure to you and say, I want to sell this to Hasbro, I want to sell this to Mattel. And you're like, great that you have one company to start with, but you need more. Like, you need more, right?
April Mitchell [00:15:29]:
Right. You definitely need more. And I will say that all of my licensing deals have been with smaller, smaller, medium, or medium sized companies, and I really enjoy, you know, working with them. And one of the reason is you get to that yes or no sooner. And what I mean by saying that is often I am pitching to the owner.
Azhelle Wade [00:15:49]:
Right.
April Mitchell [00:15:50]:
Less people, which I love when I get to pitch to the owner. Second is, if it's not the owner, the owner is in the next review. He is in that group meeting, you know, where if they say, yes, let's review this. Right. If it's not, you know, instant pass. Yes, we're going to review this. You know that they're going to be on that and you're going to play test it. I had, you know, I've had an email before, like, the owner wants to play test it again before we make the decision.
April Mitchell [00:16:14]:
And I love that the owner wants to playtest it again. Right. Like, so I think that is so for me, that's huge, because I really feel like they're gonna champion your, your product. Champion it. They're gonna, it means so much that this concept, this game, like, makes it. Right. They're gonna, it's one of their few, you know, maybe it's their new, I don't know, there's six or eight or ten new skus for the year.
Azhelle Wade [00:16:41]:
Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:16:42]:
And they're gonna give it their all.
Azhelle Wade [00:16:44]:
Exactly. It's not one of their 50 skus. They're gonna put their, their effort behind it. This term champion you just used, I've heard this now three times in the past month in this industry. Yeah. Really interesting. Like the idea that you need someone to champion you and your idea. Very true.
April Mitchell [00:17:00]:
I think it is. And I will say, though, if I ever have the opportunity to work with one of the, the biggest, I will take. Glad to take it and I will love it. And I know, I know that they are working just as hard as finding those right ideas, but I think they get pitched a lot more ideas.
Azhelle Wade [00:17:19]:
3000 at least. Yeah. A year.
April Mitchell [00:17:22]:
Yeah, they get pitched more, and sometimes it takes, you know, I'm pitching currently to a couple companies where I know I'm the only one or a couple of the only people pitching to them because they're in that cusp. Right. Coming up.
Azhelle Wade [00:17:35]:
Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:17:35]:
And just saying. Well, we don't know. We, I haven't really met with anyone before, but they see you on LinkedIn, and I like what you're doing and, okay, let's, let's give it a go. And so I think it's important to, again, like you said, to look for the smaller fish in the sea because they're just as wonderful. They are fantastic. And I think there's so many amazing companies from, you know, small to medium to big in this industry that whoever is in love with your idea as much as you are and is passionate about it, they're going to do a great job with it. I really think so.
Azhelle Wade [00:18:13]:
Yeah. And I mean, I think it's just the big companies, you know, they also have so many layers to get through. I mean, you're getting sifted out. It's a lot. And then even if they make it, even if you make it all the way through, you've got that layer of, is your ideas gonna get their marketing budget? That's a whole other layer. A whole other layer to go through. So. But again, we all would love to work with you.
Azhelle Wade [00:18:32]:
So, so big four, we're here for you.
April Mitchell [00:18:34]:
Yes, we love to. We just know the percent. I, you know, someone from a large company gave me a percent the other day and it was like, wow. When I heard it, 1%. 1%. And you think about that and for a moment you're like, I just want to quit. Why am I doing this?
Azhelle Wade [00:18:52]:
Oh, yeah, it's much higher with medium to small companies, first of all. And then also what I've heard the same people that say it's 1% also say out of their 3000 submissions, like half or a little bit less than half aren't even fully formed submissions. Like, people will take videos, like panning over static product on a table. Like, that's what they'll, like, submit. Yeah. So it's not, you're not really competing with all. It's not, all of them are good.
April Mitchell [00:19:20]:
Right?
Azhelle Wade [00:19:20]:
Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:19:21]:
I definitely think that when, when you believe in something and you're passionate about it, you just got to do it. I mean, it took me, you know, my first products didn't get licensed, but once I, you know, was going, I learned you got to listen to that feedback, building those relationships, too. So people, I feel like, are more comfortable giving you the feedback. They know you can handle it. Right. I think that goes a long way. And now, you know, I won't put my exact number of licensing deals up here because I feel like then that like, creates a limit to the world energy wise. Like, I always have extra space.
April Mitchell [00:20:02]:
So, like, I have a list of all my products that are licensed on my wall next to me. And then I've got the next like five, six number lines ready to go to be filled out because, you know, I'm just creating space for those next ones. But there's, you know, there's, there's been a bit and, you know, there's. I have three games coming out this Q three and Q four. So this is 2024, everybody. If you're listening to this, years down the road, and then I have a few slated for next year. So it can take time. And we know that, you know, once you sign a deal, it can often take 18 months or two years before you see that product on the shelves.
April Mitchell [00:20:40]:
I'm just super blessed that three items that I signed last year will actually be out this year.
Azhelle Wade [00:20:46]:
That's awesome.
April Mitchell [00:20:47]:
So, you know, a twelve month turnaround, which is amazing.
Azhelle Wade [00:20:50]:
But I also do think this is a little bit going off topic, but I feel like the low percentage was also a percentage established, like, Covid time and then, like the year after Covid. And I found, at least with TCA students last year. Last. What year are we in? Like the end of last year to the beginning of this year was. I was getting so many messages, like, I just signed a deal. We're on the cusp of signing a deal. We're doing that, like, like, I don't know what happened in the past, like eight months, but everybody's having some good luck all of a sudden, so I'm happy. And I feel like the tides are turning.
Azhelle Wade [00:21:27]:
And some of them are major companies, some of them are mid size and smaller. So it's like, I'm so excited. Like, I love this year.
April Mitchell [00:21:35]:
I know everyone's success is our success. Right. When we, when we help them, it's, it's so huge. Like seeing people win.
Azhelle Wade [00:21:43]:
Yeah, it's a great year. What else do I want to, I want to say. Oh, is, are there any frequently asked questions you get about tabletop game design masterclass that you might want to address here? What's something that people normally ask about the course?
April Mitchell [00:21:56]:
Yeah, well, I think oftentimes they, and we've addressed this a little bit before, is they, they want to know, like, the time commitment and, and how much, like, how long it takes. Right. But what's great about it is there's nine modules, but you can take it at your own pace. We wanted to get it out in April so that people had time to go through it and create a couple new games before Mojo, which was really the key factor of, like, that, that timeframe. But you have plenty of time still to get a couple concepts ready for then, or just to start going through it. Right. It never hurts to start going through it and then come back at it a lot of times people want to know are they going to be able to meet with us? And one thing that we've done is we have the coaching community. So we have once a month Ed and I have a live Q and a where we come on and answer everyone's questions, which I think is super important.
April Mitchell [00:23:01]:
Of course, we can't share. Everyone can't share all the exact details right about their game, but be able to ask general questions that we can help narrow things down with, which I think is fantastic because that community aspect and being able to ask questions I think is really important.
Azhelle Wade [00:23:19]:
Yeah, I think so too.
April Mitchell [00:23:21]:
Oh, one other thing is people want to know if after they're done with the course, if they can continue with the community and the Q and A's, which I think is good to know that the answer is yes. So the community coaching community is an add on. So you can just every year pay for that add on and continue just to have that community aspect and have your questions answered. Maybe by then you'll have a few deals and you're like, ah, because we love hearing the updates and, and then answering questions.
Azhelle Wade [00:23:50]:
I was gonna ask, what's your favorite part about teaching virtually? Teaching game design virtually?
April Mitchell [00:23:56]:
Well, I would say what we've done for the online course now because I love the interaction with people because we can't physically be with people unless it's like a show usually. Right?
Azhelle Wade [00:24:06]:
Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:24:07]:
But I love being able to connect with students and like make that eye contact and see their smile and you really can just. I don't know, I feel like that connection piece is fantastic, you know?
Azhelle Wade [00:24:18]:
Yeah. I like watching them pitch. I know it's weird. And the way that I do it with having my pitch event is different than most, but I quite love watching them pitch. I feel like I met you when you were just a baby and now you're pitching on your own.
April Mitchell [00:24:33]:
That's fantastic. Well it's, it's huge too, to see people like grow and change, you know what I mean?
Azhelle Wade [00:24:40]:
Or when they say like this one thing that I learned from your module or your lesson changed everything, that's like.
April Mitchell [00:24:47]:
The best, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Or when they refer other people to, you have to take this course, it's life changing. Or oh my gosh, you just need to attend this event. You've got to take this course. Yeah, do it. You'll, you won't look back. I think that's huge. I mean that says a lot.
April Mitchell [00:25:05]:
I mean, I love, we have and of course this is on the website. We've got so many amazing testimonials and then even more on our LinkedIn page. Ed and I have several from our students. They were so generous, and their words are just so kind and heartfelt. Like, it just means so much that they appreciate the course so much and everything that they have learned. It just. It's exciting to see where things will take them.
Azhelle Wade [00:25:32]:
Yeah. And these testimonials will read thetoycoach.com game on detailed. This is not just like a forward. Thanks so much. It was a great course. This is just like, I mean, completely detailed in explaining what they liked about the program, what it helped them with, and why they joined some people that already had experience in the industry and others that were newish. So, yeah, definitely head over to thetoycoach.com game on and check it out. Well, April, this has been incredible.
Azhelle Wade [00:25:59]:
I want to move on to my all important closing questions for you. I want to hear, what do you see for yourself a year from now in the toy and game industry?
April Mitchell [00:26:10]:
Goodness. You know, like I mentioned before, I've been learning about self publishing. So, you know, I'm exploring that. I'm not sure I'm ready yet for that. But in a year from now, I definitely, of course, want to have signed lots, lots more deals. And I would love to see lots of students have success eventually. Would like to turn, like, have another version of the course for kids, which would be great. Like kind of all the above.
April Mitchell [00:26:47]:
All the. All the things, you know, again, I would like to look at, you know, starting the process of self publishing possibly, but I'm not gonna say that's for sure what I'm gonna do. So people hold me to it because I'm not many dreams right now. Right. This is me. I'm not ready yet to take that on. But I'm really enjoying learning about it because I also feel like it's helping me understand the product development side of things, which I think that helps me with licensing. Right.
April Mitchell [00:27:16]:
And with pitching, too. So I think. I think that's helpful as well. And on a totally. Another note, I would love to encourage all your listeners to get a theme song that they play before they pitch.
Azhelle Wade [00:27:33]:
To anyone, and then we have to share ours.
April Mitchell [00:27:37]:
That sounds good. Like, do you want. Should I get it up on my.
Azhelle Wade [00:27:40]:
Like, should I. I don't know. There's, like, music rights. You probably just have to sing it. Oh, shoot.
April Mitchell [00:27:45]:
I can't sing. Mine is. Well, first of all, I have to. I have to tell one little story. So I've had. I had this song for a little bit, and then it was in New York, and Ed and I were doing some pitching together, and we came into one room that we were about to pitch in, and it was, like, kind of like a. Like a hallway. And then there's people at the counter, and I walk in.
April Mitchell [00:28:09]:
I'm like, gosh, I feel like I should have been playing our theme. The theme song song when we're entering. And they said, you should. You should. And I said, okay. So I. We walk back out, I get my theme song on, which is all I do is win, win, win. Okay, so I'm a horrible singer.
April Mitchell [00:28:27]:
So that's all.
Azhelle Wade [00:28:27]:
You know?
April Mitchell [00:28:27]:
That was great. It was great.
Azhelle Wade [00:28:29]:
No, it's great. I'm sorry. It was great.
April Mitchell [00:28:31]:
And we're like, right.
Azhelle Wade [00:28:34]:
I'm just laughing at imagining it not doing my dance.
April Mitchell [00:28:36]:
Right. And then everybody, when it said hands go up, the six people went, and all the winter hands did, and it was so much fun. Anyway, I was so pumped. But I do that before every pitch. If I'm traveling, I do it every morning before I leave my hotel room. It just really gets me energized, and I know there's some naughty words in there, and I don't like some of the stuff, but it really gets me excited, and I'm like, this is my song. And I think because if we kind of get that attitude, you know, that positivity, that, like. No, this is what I'm saying.
April Mitchell [00:29:18]:
And I really am. I really think it's important to, like, speak life and truth and, like, to put those words out there and really believe things and put that energy out into the world and. And then we get it back. So. Yeah, that. That's my song. All right, let's.
Azhelle Wade [00:29:34]:
I love your song. I think I need a new song now.
April Mitchell [00:29:38]:
You can share my song. I might share a song now.
Azhelle Wade [00:29:41]:
All I have is that image of you and Ed walking.
April Mitchell [00:29:45]:
It was so much fun. It was so much fun.
Azhelle Wade [00:29:49]:
Oh, my gosh. My song started, actually, when I started doing. Speaking on other podcasts, because I would get so nervous. So my teacher, who was teaching me how to get on podcasts at the time, said, you need a song. Everyone should have a song. So my song was lose yourself at Eminem. So, yeah, because I. And I.
Azhelle Wade [00:30:10]:
When I used to do a lot of tv, I would play it, because it always was one shot. Like, it was always like, I'm gonna be live on this tv show. I better not mess it up. You know? I'm gonna, like, be live on this podcast or I'm gonna be on this show. I have 1 minute. I have one shot. So I really needed to, like, I think I had a hard time centering myself in the present moment, and that song made me very like, this is it. This is the moment.
Azhelle Wade [00:30:36]:
Like, let's get it done. And I'm like, so, yeah, that was my song.
April Mitchell [00:30:39]:
Oh, that's awesome. I think that's a great song. That is, like, that's a good one.
Azhelle Wade [00:30:44]:
Okay. What is one piece of advice that you wish more people knew about when they're starting to invent games in the toy industry?
April Mitchell [00:30:51]:
Hmm, let's see. I think what's important is, I don't know if I can narrow this down to one. I might have to give you two.
Azhelle Wade [00:30:59]:
Well, like, when you hear one and you're just like, I just wish somebody just told them. You're just like, oh, right, right.
April Mitchell [00:31:05]:
So, one is that you don't have to have the most perfect prototype or artwork. Like, it needs to be playable and demonstrable, where you can show it on a video working. Now, I have seen some amazing prototypes, especially when artists or designers do them 100%. They've been so awesome, but you don't need that to present idea. I think sometimes people wait to make it so perfect, or they spend so much money on the cards or the artwork or having the pieces just right that they miss out on so much time they could be pitching. And so I've seen so many people spend so much money on a product, and this is any industry, right? You know, they can barely get to the pitching stage, and they've spent crazy amounts of money. It's like, as long as it works, and it works well, right. With games, they could be broken, and people think like a broken piece.
April Mitchell [00:32:05]:
And I don't mean just like a broken piece, but the game has to work every time you have to play test, which is the number two thing I want to share, is you have to play test it so many times.
Azhelle Wade [00:32:17]:
Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:32:17]:
And once I was pitching to Ed, and I play tested this game quite a bit, and he's like, how off? How many times did you play test? I'm like, over a dozen. He's like, I want you to play test it 22 times. And I'm like, okay. And, you know, he's like, I don't think it's gonna work every time. And I think that's important because, yeah, you want to get everything hashed out before the companies play test it, because they're gonna want to play test it.
Azhelle Wade [00:32:43]:
And if they're gonna play test it. Yeah. Don't think that they're gonna just sit in an office and just do a couple, like, quick fake rounds. Like, no, they're gonna, like, get a group together. Might even be an external group, and they're gonna really play test it. Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:32:56]:
Right, right. So hash it out. Don't leave it to the companies to try to figure out what doesn't work. And of course they're gonna find things that they're gonna say, oh, we like this. We tried it with this rule instead, or we decided you get to draw two cards instead of one. Or, you know, they're gonna come up with some tweaks, which is fine, but you. You don't want them to have to totally refigure out your game because they're not going to want to spend the time to do it. Most of the time, that's not what they're going to want to do.
Azhelle Wade [00:33:21]:
You know, those tips could be inter. Could be combined in a way, because I think the, another big mistake is, like, making your prototype too final before you play. Test it enough because you're like, oh, I need something to playtest. But if you spend too much on your prototype, then you're not going to want to change it, even when you discover something's wrong with it in the playtest, and you don't want to do that. So you want to just make a rough prototype. You play test that one, and then you make your nicer, not product again.
April Mitchell [00:33:48]:
Make it a little better. Yeah, I print so much at home. Or I'll have it printed out one of the office places.
Azhelle Wade [00:33:57]:
I've been printing lately at office places. And I'm like, I need to just go buy more ink. Cause it's too expensive.
April Mitchell [00:34:04]:
Well, that's the thing. I need to get a better cutter. Like the cutting.
Azhelle Wade [00:34:09]:
No way. I will cut out the 150. I don't care. I'm sorry. I'm not paying you. No, that's silly. No, it's. I can't do it.
April Mitchell [00:34:19]:
Sometimes it's needed, though. Like, if you have, like we've been to after an event in, like, four companies want to play test, and you don't. You don't want to, like, do. No. Then it's print. Let him cut. And it could be like 40, 50, $80.
Azhelle Wade [00:34:33]:
Yes.
April Mitchell [00:34:34]:
To have a. But. But at the same time, I want to wait two weeks before I get them all ready.
Azhelle Wade [00:34:39]:
So, yeah, it's true.
April Mitchell [00:34:40]:
Sometimes it's worth fighting the bullet and just paying the money to get it printed. So that you can get them out faster. So I will say that, like, if.
Azhelle Wade [00:34:48]:
You'Ve got lots of people want to.
April Mitchell [00:34:49]:
Play tests at the same time.
Azhelle Wade [00:34:50]:
Well, yeah, if you're just. So you're winning, winning, winning no matter what. What, I guess.
April Mitchell [00:34:57]:
Okay. That doesn't happen often, but. But I think it's important to have a couple, you know, ready to go. Like, I have one, I video, and then if I don't have time to make one right after a pitch event, I try to get one ready as soon as I get home because I know more than likely there's going to be a need to set up because I have that mindset. Like, I've walked into places, you know, and, like, these are all going to be licensed. And, like, I think if we always just expect, like, you get what you expect, and I'm going to expect the best things for me, you know what?
Azhelle Wade [00:35:30]:
I don't. I have to put something into the show notes because I happen to be listening to this manifestation book. Like, literally, I'm on. I'm like, step two. There's seven steps. And it really is just a clear, like, I think a really good layout of the process of, like, you know, mood board. A mood board. I'm sorry.
Azhelle Wade [00:35:49]:
I went into my course, manifestation board, and, like, loving yourself. Oh, my God. Self love and apologizing to your, like, past self and accepting your mistakes and understanding that you can move beyond that. You have to self love before you can even accept the greatness of the universe, yourself and all that.
April Mitchell [00:36:08]:
And you have to. You also have to feel that you're worthy.
Azhelle Wade [00:36:12]:
Yes. Oh, that's in there, too.
April Mitchell [00:36:13]:
Yes. Oh, that is huge. I had. I struggled with that for a long time. Once I moved past that, you would not believe how I started just going up. Like, it's amazing. I am a very big believer in meditation and manifestation. I've got my board over there.
April Mitchell [00:36:30]:
I've got all these notes.
Azhelle Wade [00:36:31]:
So. Okay, we're going on a tangent, but I have to share now. Well, first of all, the thing that I'm listening to, the playlist I'm listening to will be in the show notes. But second of all, something I realized while going through the worthiness step was that my mom raised me with so much confidence. Like, an outrageous amount of confidence. Like, she always literally called me pretty girl more than she called me by my name. She would always tell me whenever I say I can't do something, she'd be like, yes, you can. Don't say that.
Azhelle Wade [00:36:59]:
Yes, you can. There's always a way. Let's figure it out. And what I realized is actually when I got into my thirties and started this business was the first time that I started to feel insecure. And I. And I was like, like, really insecure, not like you, like, feel insecure one day and it's gone. Like, really, like a deep seated, I can't do this, what am I doing? Situation. And I realized I was like, wow, it's because my mom was being that voice that was constantly positivity, positivity, positivity.
Azhelle Wade [00:37:28]:
And then she's not here. Like, she's not in my. Like, she's not living with me. She's alive. She's not living with me. So she's not, like, telling me, like, you're amazing, you're amazing. And I'm like, oh, I have to do that. And that's something that is so important you learn in that I'm worthy thing.
Azhelle Wade [00:37:44]:
You have to shut down that negative self talk and talk yourself up in.
April Mitchell [00:37:50]:
Something that I have learned. One, I am. Statements are huge, and I taught them to my daughter as well, and the boys, too. But I think it's even more important for girls because they get shut down a bit. But like you said, turning, taking down that self negative talk and what a friend taught me, and I'd like to share here. Yeah, well, and everyone, no matter what your. Your belief is or your higher power is, I'm very strong in my faith. And what I was told is, April, the.
April Mitchell [00:38:20]:
Your creator does not think anything negative about you because you are created in his image. And so any negative thought you have is not of him, and it does not belong in this world. And so realizing that was huge for me because every time a negative thought comes to mind, I know it's not true because he doesn't see me that way. And so it's, you know, attack of the evil side.
Azhelle Wade [00:38:50]:
I mean, not to get super religious for people that aren't don't believe you can mute. But I actually had someone recently tell me, well, maybe you should pray for forgiveness for the thing that you're feeling so ashamed about and not actually for him, but actually for you, because you seem to really need to, like, know that you're forgiven. And maybe asking for it will allow you to feel. Getting emotional, like, feel better about it. And, like, it's just so.
April Mitchell [00:39:17]:
Yeah, well, in the whole thing, too. And you, you mentioned this, too, is you have to be. Be able to. I had to learn to be able to accept and receive the goodness that is meant for me. Oh, because even if it's coming at you, if you're not open to it, if you don't believe you're worthy of for it, you cannot accept it and receive it. So I literally, you know, I try to get in the sunshine every day when we need the vitamins. Good for us. But I.
April Mitchell [00:39:46]:
I kind of, you know, have my arms open wide, and I feel that sunshine as I'm, like, receiving. Like, kind of. It's kind of like an action. I put it together, you know, kind of like I'm receiving everything. I like that for me, because you can feel the rays, you know what I mean? It's just kind of this.
Azhelle Wade [00:40:03]:
No, that's a good. Like, a tangible connection to the mental. No, I love that. I'm gonna try that.
April Mitchell [00:40:08]:
Yeah. And it feels so good, the sun on your face, and it's just like, all right, you know, come to. You know, like, bring on, I'm ready.
Azhelle Wade [00:40:15]:
Oh, this is like a whole other topic. But, like, sometimes there have been moments in my life where you just feel, or I feel off path, you know? And it's like. I think that's what it is, though. It's like, feel. You feel. Maybe it's like you might not necessarily be off path, but you're close to what your path is, so it feels like you're not getting anything, but you're actually not even open to receiving anything.
April Mitchell [00:40:38]:
Right.
Azhelle Wade [00:40:38]:
And it's like, maybe that's what I'm still figuring out, but I'll get there.
April Mitchell [00:40:42]:
We're a work in progress.
Azhelle Wade [00:40:43]:
Yeah. Everyone's a work in progress. Well, this took a fun turn. Now, I quite love that I'm, like, chills all over my legs. My final question for you, April, is my favorite question. What toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
April Mitchell [00:40:57]:
Oh, my gosh. Wow. I have to pick one.
Azhelle Wade [00:41:01]:
Everyone says this. Yes. You have to pick one. No. Okay. You can pick two. If one is a toy and if one is a game.
April Mitchell [00:41:08]:
Okay. Okay. I know this sounds so silly, probably. I had so many different toys, and I love so many different things, but I love to skip it.
Azhelle Wade [00:41:16]:
Oh, my God, me too. I used to love to skip it.
April Mitchell [00:41:20]:
Oh, my gosh. Because you could do it on your own. You could do it with people. You could, like, just, you know, if you had, like, say, nobody could play, or you could just go and do it and try to, you know, it's just good exercise.
Azhelle Wade [00:41:31]:
I used to bring it to school. It was so fun. I had a purple one.
April Mitchell [00:41:34]:
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Oh, the skip. It was fantastic. Game. Wow. I would have to say uno.
Azhelle Wade [00:41:44]:
Oh, really?
April Mitchell [00:41:45]:
Because we would spend so much time in our cabin when we lived in Illinois, we would go up to Wisconsin, and when it was raining, it was like the game we played with the cousins out in the patio. The rain was coming, and it was just. I don't know, I just feel like everyone was always up for Uno. Like, not everyone wanted to play the. This game or that game, but no. Okay. Everybody was up for it. I just felt like it was a game that everyone enjoyed.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:11]:
Everyone was always up for Uno. I like that tagline.
April Mitchell [00:42:13]:
Oh, I think that's a new slogan. Okay, I need to trademark that. They need to pay me for that. Okay, you're listening up for Uno. Everyone's up for Uno.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:24]:
It's a whole marketing.
April Mitchell [00:42:26]:
Okay, you heard it here, people. I should be.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:29]:
You should go trademark it before this comes. You probably can't set a trademark with a name in it, though.
April Mitchell [00:42:36]:
Yeah, I don't know. They'll give me some kind of percent.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:39]:
Or you know what? They're always looking to innovate their classic game. So come up with a game that you can name up for Uno and then pitch it to them.
April Mitchell [00:42:48]:
Yeah. The next version. Yeah, I'm writing that down, everybody.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:53]:
Okay.
April Mitchell [00:42:54]:
It's mine.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:56]:
We approve. I mean, this will be proof.
April Mitchell [00:42:58]:
Yeah.
Azhelle Wade [00:42:58]:
Um, okay. April, it's been a pleasure, honestly discussing your experience in housewares to games. I wonder if one eventually you'll do toy. I'm actually.
April Mitchell [00:43:07]:
I never asked that, so I have. I mean, some people think consider the basketball hoop a toy.
Azhelle Wade [00:43:14]:
Yeah.
April Mitchell [00:43:15]:
I did license another toy, but unfortunately it never got made. So that was sad. That happens. And hopefully there'll be other toys. There's. There's. They're in the works. But hopefully, you know, more.
April Mitchell [00:43:28]:
More to come. More to come.
Azhelle Wade [00:43:29]:
Well, I mean, this conversation covered so much, from partnerships being number one to the tabletop design masterclass and how you can get involved with that and to just beliefs manifestation. We talked a little bit about our beliefs, but whatever you believe, you know, we support you in getting what is coming to you, what the universe has for you, what you are worth having and you deserve. So we want you to have that. To get all of the links mentioned in today's episode, head over to thetoycoach.com 223. And if you're interested in learning about the tabletop game design Masterclass, be sure to check out thetoycoach.com forward slash gameon. Now, there are a few fun ways that you can now interact with this podcast. Which include sending us a text message and fan mail. So try those things out wherever you're watching this episode.
Azhelle Wade [00:44:19]:
I've seen some of you sending me hello. Which seem like test messages, but they really were. So send along your questions, your name, your comments about the show or about the episodes. I'd love to read them on an actual episode. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week. I'll see you later, toy people.
Jingle [00:44:51]:
Thanks for listening to the making it in the toy industry podcast. Azelle Wade head over to thetoycoach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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