Episode #72: Working With A Distributor To Get Your Toy or Game In Retail with Greg Watson
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If you’ve ever wondered if or why you should use a distributor to help push your toy or game, well I’ve got an episode for you. PSi aka Publisher Services, Inc is the world’s largest toy, game, and collectible distributor. And in today’s episode we have an illuminating conversation with PSi’s National Accounts Manager, Greg Watson. Greg shares what he believes is most important in game play, as well as the current perspective of distributors and retailers in retail. If you don’t know the retail lingo but you have a killer game idea, PSi may be your perfect toy biz match. Listen to this episode to learn more about working with a distributor in the toy and game industry.
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Azhelle Wade: You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 72.
[00:00:04]Hey. There toy people, Azhelle Wade here. And welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, Making It in The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Our guest today, Greg Watson has spent his entire career in the retail industry, but working in apparel than cosmetics and beauty and now toys and games as the national account manager at publisher services, Inc, known as PSI. Greg is responsible for mass market accounts, such as Target Myer, and Kohl's for one of the world's largest toy game and collectible distributors on a personal note.
[00:00:55] Greg lives in Washington, DC with his husband and their two cats and is also releasing a game of his and his husband's own creation later this year, it's called poof the game and we will get into that at the end of the show. And I will give you all the links. But first Greg is joining us to have an important conversation about distribution. How do you obtain distribution for your toy or game in the case of PSI. And I know this is an important conversation for many of my listeners. You have often asked me why would I work with a distributor for my toy or game? Is it really worth it? So Greg is joining us today to answer that question and so many more. Let's dive into the interview.
[00:01:44] Greg, welcome to the show how are you?
[00:01:47]Greg Watson: I'm great. Thanks for having me
[00:01:49]Azhelle Wade: So, glad you're here so to kick it off will you please just give the listeners a overview of how you got into the toy industry?
[00:01:56]Greg Watson: Yeah, absolutely. So my journey to ending up in the toy space was long and winding. I did not set out to end up here, but after graduating from college, I went to work at Target Corporate Headquarters up in Minneapolis, where I was actually in apparel.
[00:02:13]I spent about a year there before I was recruited away to move to Europe, to work for a retailer that was expanding to the US. And there, I worked in store operations, so kind of saw the opposite side from the corporate world. I got to actually see, you know, what it's like to work in the stores kind of at a more macro level.
[00:02:32]But that whole time, my now husband was living back here in the States. So eventually had to make that move back and ended up. Back in Minneapolis home of Target working at a vendor rep group in the cosmetics and beauty space primarily. And then just about a year and a half ago, I joined PSI or Publisher Services, Inc. As a national account manager managing our business at several mass retailers, including target Meijer and Kohl's.
[00:02:59]Azhelle Wade: So tell us who is PSI, because a lot of my listeners are new to the toy industry, but I'm sure the vets listening are like, Oh, we know we know PSI. So who, who is PSI?
[00:03:09]Greg Watson: Yeah. So PSI has been around for nearly 20 years.
[00:03:13] Next year will Mark our 20th anniversary. And we are a while we're one of the world's largest toy games, collectibles puzzles, distributors out there. So anything in the place space, we, we do our. Primary focus is predominantly games and puzzles. So that's, you're going to hear me talk a lot about games today.
[00:03:33]But we are a company of experts. So like I said, we've been around for 20 years, started by veterans of the industry who saw an opportunity to help small. You know, game and toy publishers get into to retail, whether that's the book trade, the hobby space mass market, our goal is to make things easier for them.
[00:03:54] So we currently work with over 140 different publishers. Our catalog list is 10,000 plus titles long. So we work with yeah. Everything from, you know, children's puzzles to like the heaviest weight. Kind of nerdiest strategy games you can think of. We do it all. And we've been behind some of the, the launches Things that you would never have thought started as small companies.
[00:04:20] So you know, we were behind the bringing Caton and Ticket To Ride to the US market.
[00:04:25]I didn't know that cool.
[00:04:28] You know, our goal is to find those kinds of diamonds in the rough that are small, but we see that opportunity. We know that the game is great and you know, we want to bring it to the mass market.
[00:04:38] So exploding kittens. Bananagrams. Most recently we have games like Code Names or Culture Tags, or Taco Cat Goat Cheese Pizza that we brought to the market. Our goal is to partner with our publishers to understand what their vision is, what their product is, and then create a strategy for them and to get to that market.
[00:04:59]You know, I know this, the conversations about distribution, but PSI is truly unique in the industry that we do a lot more than just distribution for our publisher partners.
[00:05:09]Azhelle Wade: My students, I had a call cause I told them we're going to have this amazing distributor coming to the toy pitch event. Why are you the perfect person to be here talking to us today? What's it like being a national accounts manager? What's your day-to-day like, why does that make you such a, you know, a great person to come share information about being a, working with a distributor and all
[00:05:27] Greg Watson: that?
[00:05:28]Yeah. I mean, I think me personally, not only just my title here at PSI, but yeah. I've been on every side of the retail industry at this point for some of the world's largest retailers. So I seen it from the retailers perspective. I seen it from the vendor perspective and then obviously I'm a human, so I shop plenty.
[00:05:45]Yeah.
[00:05:46]I have things that I need to go to the store for. But yeah, as a national account manager, my job is to maintain those relationships with. The retailers. So as a distributor, we are the middleman between, you know, this X, Y or Z publisher. And the retailer PSI is unique in that we have two teams, one that faces retail and one that faces the vendors.
[00:06:07] And then we partner internally to make sure that we're aligned. But you know, my job, especially working with some of the, the scale of retailers that I am, you know, I. Have those conversations with the buyer to understand what they're looking for. And then bring that back internally, both with just PSI, as well as our publisher partners to say, okay, how do we, as PSI needs operate to provide value to both retailers and publishers, because that's what we're here for.
[00:06:36] We're not just servicing one or the other. And then for our publisher partners, it's understanding, okay, I'm I'm community hating those strategies back to you. And here's how PSI is going to help you get. There you know, we take a very hands-on consultated approach here at PSI. So most of our publishers are having regular touch points with both the vendor team, as well as myself to craft strategies specifically for those retailers you know, to help put them in the best.
[00:07:02] Possible positions for, you know, current placements, future placements or products that aren't even in the works yet, or you've never thought of, but we help you get there.
[00:07:11]And I think that's something that, you know, a benefit of working with someone like PSI is that we are all experts and we know how to manage those conversations appropriately and effectively based on, you know, the personalities or, you know, the working styles of the various retailers.
[00:07:26]Azhelle Wade: So what if if someone's listening right now, an entrepreneur and they've got a game that they've developed, maybe they've sold some on their own already and they want to level up and they're thinking, Oh, this sounds like an opportunity for me. I'm curious, as a company, what do you think are the markers of a diamond in the rough game or puzzle like Caton, like Code Names. What are those markers that you guys identify that make you say this is something we should pay attention to?
[00:07:52]Yeah.
[00:07:53] Greg Watson: You know, I think something that you feel a lot in the toys and games, space, you see a lot of things that are licensed. You know, they're hot. People want to buy them because it's X, Y, or Z IP that's behind it. But the product itself is not actually that good. And you know, for us, Number one is, is the game good?
[00:08:13] Like, will people play this once and want to play it again? Or are they going to buy it? Because it caught their eye and then they bring it home. They're like, Oh my gosh, what, why should I spend my money on this? This isn't fun. So for us, you know, we've because we've seen it time and time again with so many different products.
[00:08:32]At its core, it has to be a quality product. Quality is subjective. I get that. But PSI, because we are experts in this space, we play them all. We, we provide that feedback, you know, We've we provide feedback on rule books. You know, if we don't like the way the rules are written or we think they need to be adjusted, we provide that feedback because our goal is to create a product that regardless of how it looks or what kind of that marketing catches, if at its core, people don't want to break it out again and share it with their friends.
[00:09:06] It won't be successful. So, you know, I think first and foremost is. Is the product good. I know any creator is going to say their product is
[00:09:15] . But at the end of the day, you know, however, harsh, it may feel, you know, our goal is to provide constructive, but critical feedback to create the best possible product so that when people bring it home, they tell their friends, they go buy it and so on and so on. And that's how.
[00:09:30]Games like Caton or UNO or Monopoly are classics for a reason. And it's not because they've got, you know they look nice. It's because they're quality products and, and the game play is fun. So I think that's the first thing we look for. I mean, on top of that is, you know, marketability, you know, the way things look are important.
[00:09:50] I am not I'm by no means discounting the impact of statics or licenses or IPS, but that comes second to a good product, but it's got to look good. You know, is it going to stand on, on shelf? Is it different? Is it matching? Even things like color trends or font themes that, that we're seeing in the marketplace.
[00:10:12] And it's not just within the toy space, look at what's happening in beauty and cosmetics.
[00:10:16]Azhelle Wade: I always tell my students, like, look outside of the toy industry as like fashion, we kind of follow fashion. So anything fashion related you can, you can pull from and you'll be on trend with our industry because they've already done it.
[00:10:29]Greg Watson: Yeah, exactly. I mean, look at the colors. People are using it. It's things like that, that, you know, that is important. And then on, I think. Something that gets overlooked is you can have the world's best product. And I'm sure the world's best product exists, but no one has heard of it because you didn't know how to market it.
[00:10:47] You didn't, whether that's your network of folks who were going to share it, or you didn't have the investment or you weren't. Willing to spend, which is more often the case. You weren't willing to listen to people when they said, Hey, you're not going to sell units with this, but you're going to get your brand out there.
[00:11:02] And that is arguably more important. It's things like that where, you know, if you're not willing to really stand behind the product from a marketing standpoint, people might buy it, but it's probably not going to stick around for a whole lot longer.
[00:11:16] Azhelle Wade: How do you guys find products right now? Like, are you, are you actually going actively looking for things that are maybe selling well at smaller retailers and saying, Oh, we can make this big or people reaching out to you or are you going to pitch events? Like the one I called you for, like, how are you finding new people to rep.
[00:11:35]Greg Watson: Oh, it's really a mixed bag.
[00:11:36] I mean, we've been around for a very long time and we've worked with just about everybody out there, even if they're not active publishers, you know, we've had a lot of people kind of graduate on from needing a distributor, like an Exploding Kittens. You know, we had a long, great relationship with them, but, you know, They got big.
[00:11:55] They didn't need us. And that's great. So we, so a lot of it is kind of a referral like, Hey you know, use PSI. They were great for me sort of thing. The toy industry is it's huge, but it's very interconnected. Everyone knows everyone. I'm learning as a newbie to the industry. I'm like the one person people don't know yet.
[00:12:13]But yeah, so a lot of it is people reaching out to us, whether it's through word of mouth or, you know, they have a friend who starts a game and was like, yeah, I worked with PSI, go get in touch with them. But we do have an extremely kind of. Hunt and find mentality in terms of, you know, we want to find I'm going to keep using it diamonds in the rough, you know, we are we've, we've got a business development team who is constantly scouring, Amazon listings, a board game geek for you know, Kickstarter it's, it's huge and the games and toys space.
[00:12:48]You know, we're always, they're always looking at that and saying like, okay, who do we see potential for? You know, Identifying that. And then, like I said, my company is full of people who are really passionate about games. Like I said, didn't grow up in the industry, but I grew up playing games. I've always enjoyed them.
[00:13:05] So. Our company, group chat is like constantly filled with, Hey, has anybody heard of this game? I just got served an ad for it then saying, Hey, biz dev team, can you go reach out to them and see kind of where they're at? Are they interested? So it's something where. Because we're also interested. We do a lot of reaching out ourselves.
[00:13:26]Azhelle Wade: What does a distributor even do for toy publisher? What services do they provide? Tell us what that is.
[00:13:32] Greg Watson: Yeah, so I will start by saying PSI is extremely unique in our business model. I, not that I can say for certain, but I do believe we are one of the few that does everything that we do at its core.
[00:13:45] A distributor serves a purpose for a manufacturer of products and that they serve as like your warehouse and logistics hub to get products, whether that's to individual consumers for, you know, a D to C model or shipping your product to various retailers, you know, whatever that looks like at its core, that's what a distributor does.
[00:14:08] They, I think a lot of them people underestimate just how complicated it is to ship a product. To, to both customers and retailers. So they take that on for you. They have the technology, they have the bandwidth, they have the expertise to do that for you. So you know, a distributor does a relatively straightforward task.
[00:14:30] When you think about the overall kind of. Product supply chain from, you know, once you've got the product made you ship it to the distributor distributor distributor gets it on shelves or into people's mailboxes, et cetera, PSI as you may have gathered, does it a little bit more than that in that we We do it all.
[00:14:50] We are not only the place that holds your inventory, but we are also the place selling your product. So that's not to say that you'll never talk to a buyer or you'll never interact with any of the retailers, but we have a team of sales and marketing folks who manage that for you to let you focus on what you do best, which is product creation.
[00:15:12]You know, we work with every kind of level of. Publisher from, you know, folks where it's like mom and pop shop, like literally just two people who have a product and they need us to do everything for us. Like they couldn't even tell you like what discounting your product at a retailer looks like and what the impact of that might be.
[00:15:31] But then we also work with people who are quite large, who have marketing teams, where they, they need us in a slightly less hands-on capacity. You know, they don't. Need us to say like, Hey, tweak this product. Or like, could you update the packaging? They they've got that figured out. They just need us because we've got those existing relationships with retailers or that expertise in logistics and supply chain.
[00:15:57]Maybe they don't have a sales team. Yeah. So I would say for most folks that we work with, you know, they're choosing to go with us because we take so much on for our, our publisher partners. Whereas other folks, they don't need it. So they just need someone who does a bit more of an operational function for that.
[00:16:15]Azhelle Wade: And do you, do you also do direct to consumer or only B2B.
[00:16:19] Greg Watson: For now we're just B2B.
[00:16:21] So what I'll say is we do, we are active on a lot of drop ship platforms for various retailer retail partners, which is in a form D to C, but at this point, We like, if you've got a website we're not fulfilling individual customer orders, but we do fulfill through like Target.com or Walmart.com or Amazon direct to consumer.
[00:16:43] But that's a much different business model than, you know, fulfilling from your Shopify site or something like that.
[00:16:49]Okay. Before we
[00:16:51] Azhelle Wade: get into like the benefits and what's it, what it takes to work with a distributor like PSI I feel like we should talk about. Just the benefits. You mentioned real quick about marketing, because you mentioned you have a whole marketing team and all that.
[00:17:05] So when you do work with a distributor like yours, like full service, what is that benefit? Is it because you get to be a part of that huge catalog? Is it because you guys are constantly reaching out to your partners and promoting all of the products that you have, like what's, what's that marketing benefit about?
[00:17:20]Greg Watson: Yeah. So I think it's, it's a few different things. So just because I want to be transparent and honest, when we say marketing, like we are not going to be running or social ads. I'm talking like retail marketing specifically, but yeah, I think in terms of the benefits of going with, you know, a full service distributor versus someone who is a little more hands off and not to sound too salesy for PSI.
[00:17:43]We are the vendor of record, which it sounds from listening to podcasts, I know this has come up, but PSI serves as the vendor of record for our retail partners. So all of our publishers, no matter how many placements they have at a specific retailer, roll up under a broader PSI umbrella, which unlocks a lot of opportunities.
[00:18:03]So I think that's just one of the things that I think too is just our level of expertise is, you know, we know what's going on in the market and we know how. How people are shifting how they're getting to customers and how they're attracting customers to them. So we're just able to take things from a bit more of a macro approach than just looking at like, Oh, this is this one product in its silo.
[00:18:25]You know, We get to see it all. And we get to say, Oh, what are people in the strategy game space soon that might apply to the party game space or vice versa? Or, you know, I think we're all very in touch. Like we've got, you know, a dedicated marketing resource. But you know, we're also even the sales folks are all very kind of in touch with.
[00:18:43] You know, we're on Tik TOK. We're, we're seeing what's happening and we are aging millennials.
[00:18:50] Azhelle Wade: On TikTok the other day. I'm pretty sure Gen Z wrote to me, like trying too hard to do a lip sync. I was like, wow.
[00:18:56] Greg Watson: I'm getting
[00:18:57] Azhelle Wade: old, the kids are coming for me.
[00:18:59] Greg Watson: Yeah. Yeah. That's why you don't make them.
[00:19:01] You just watch so that you can't get called out.
[00:19:03]Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's okay. We gotta, we gotta try. I gotta make an effort. Oh, this all sounds so good. Okay. Now that we have primed everyone and everyone's like, Oh, I need to get in on this distributor stuff. This sounds good. Wait, one more thing before I go on vendor of record if you don't know what that is, go back to episode number 62.
[00:19:23]Because we talk about that in that podcast episode. To work with a distributor, what does it take? What, what are those, you know, I don't want to get into the specifics of PSI. Every distributor has different percentages and there's different fees. Like they're all very varied, but. On a general basis. If somebody says, Oh, I want to work with a distributor, what should they work into their pricing? How much should they say, okay, I got to set aside this. I have to take out this much that I can't afford to have somebody help me in the way that a distributor
[00:19:51] Greg Watson: can. Yeah.
[00:19:52] And I mean, to your point, it's the very top because everybody is so unique. You know, I can only speak for, for PSI and how we do it, but generally speaking, we buy things at a percent of MSRP. Across the board, no matter what we take ownership, generally speaking of that product. And then you know, we, we pay you for however many units we, we ordered or we wanted I think.
[00:20:15]A lot from a, you know, what you need to factor into your pricing. It really depends. And it is a case by case basis based on the product category that you're talking about, you know, puzzles, because they are commoditized at this point, you know, requirements I should say are more.
[00:20:31] Are steeper games you know, it's relatively standard, but still there's variables based on the size of the company. You know, I think we're seeing a lot of, you know, smaller brands break through that. We know don't have the margins or the scale that, you know, a Hasbro or a metallic might have. And then even in like, you know, we do some stuff in like the STEM kit slash toys space where margins are a little bit, you know, They're they're smaller.
[00:20:59]Just because there's more stuff.
[00:21:02] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. The components are expensive.
[00:21:04] Greg Watson: Yeah. So it, it really just, it depends on the product.
[00:21:07] And I think the other, the other important factor is what scale are you talking about? You know, if you're talking about a distributor, just. To the sale, like direct to consumer sales, you're talking in a whole different world than like target or Walmart. So like that pricing, it may seem very scary, like, Oh my gosh, like, how could I sell to you at that?
[00:21:30] When I, myself don't even make that right now, it's like, while we're talking about like 500 units versus. 50,000, a hundred thousand, a million. You know, the numbers change pretty dramatically, especially when you're talking to a distributor, who's hoping to get you into the big guys. So, okay.
[00:21:52] Azhelle Wade: I love that.
[00:21:52] And so if somebody is listening, how do they, what do they say? They're like, Oh, I think I've got something good. I think this might work for PSI. What should they come to you prepared with like, they need to bring a, a pitch deck, let's say with their MSRP, showing their product components, showing their packaging figured out, showing they have a factory.
[00:22:12] What, what do you need to see to even consider a product?
[00:22:15]Greg Watson: Yeah, I mean, it. I would say to start, obviously he needs to know what the product is. You need to be able to speak to it in a way that's complete it's you know, you've, you've identified why it's unique to the market, whether it fits a specific white space or it's a theme that you're, you've never seen out there, or, you know, There's something truly new and unique about it.
[00:22:40]I just said like five different ways to describe what white spaces, but yeah,
[00:22:43] no, no, but no,
[00:22:45] Azhelle Wade: I have a whole module describing how to find white space. It's a thing that people need to fully understand. You can't describe it enough. Go ahead.
[00:22:52] Greg Watson: Well, and I think the tough part is if you're going to come to PSI and you know, I don't want this to come out like snooty or like, we're going to turn people down, but like, we don't take on everyone.
[00:23:03] We talk to because at the end of the day, especially because we aren't likely to be the ones fulfilling your direct to consumer business. If we don't think we could get you retail placements. It's going to be tricky. You know, the hobby market is less strict in terms of skew limitations.
[00:23:22]But yeah, generally speaking you, if you come to us and you haven't identified why your product would be special, if it was placed at Barnes and Noble or Hot Topic or Kohl's or wherever you know, that it's going to be. You're asking us to basically decide why your product deserves placement. We'll help with that but we've got to be able to identify that because that also plays into like, do you have a marketing strategy? You know, you've got this great product, but like, how are you planning on. Making people know about it.
[00:23:54]And you know, we'll help you build to a point where you are ready for mass or, you know, one of my most recent success stories is a puzzle brand that very small direct to consumer only. And we. Found her. And I was like, I want to get you in the target. I think there's a, such a unique opportunity.
[00:24:11] Your product is so special, but she had no scale. And, you know, we helped her kind of build up to a point and she is now going to be placed in target. Okay. Wait, I'm
[00:24:24] Azhelle Wade: sorry. I have to stop you because you brought back up puzzles. You brought back out, you reminded me of the puzzle question. So puzzles, you, you talk about puzzles.
[00:24:31] Like you're like, Oh, puzzles is one of our bread and butter. And on my students are like, do they literally just mean like wooden puzzles? Or like, or like just paper puzzles? Or those types of puzzle games. So let us know, like, what do you mean by puzzle?
[00:24:43]Greg Watson: So when I'm talking about puzzles, I'm talking about like, you know, jigsaw puzzles, paper puzzles that are sold in every major retailer that is. What if I say puzzle, that's what I'm talking about.
[00:24:56] Azhelle Wade: What in the world is a paper puzzle that is so innovative to you that you're like, you know what? That's a paper puzzle that Target really needs to have right now.
[00:25:05] And if it's not a license, Yeah.
[00:25:07] Greg Watson: So one of my passion projects has been since, before I joined TSI is helping diversity owned brands break in to the mass space as a gay man, myself. You know, there's a total lack of representation for folks, I think, particularly with puzzles, right? It's a visual medium in that, like, I could make a game, you could make a game, but like, it's not necessarily like nobody's, unless it's like written on the box, like, it's not like, Oh, this is black created or gay owned, whatever it is.
[00:25:37] But with a puzzle, it is a visual medium where. That representation, you know, you're going to know you look at it and you're like, Oh, there are black people on this pocket. So she is a mother of twins and they were premature. Yes. The, the one I'm talking about and why she's so special. But she is the mother of twins who were premature and in the NICU while she was waiting for them to, you know, Get better. She had this idea because she loves puzzles and she had never seen puzzles with black children on them. And she said, I want to create a brand where my children can grow up, seeing themselves on these puzzles.
[00:26:20]So she created this line of puzzles with really cute animation about her twins, they are pseudonyms for that, and they're not actually their names. But you know, it's stories about these children and their friends who live in what's called the Lollipop Forest. And you know, that's something that, you know, I have like chills talking about.
[00:26:39]It's just, it's so use of her brand. So it's called A + X puzzles, a plus x puzzles coming soon to a target near you. I think that representation is beyond important, especially for children. It's not something that exists in the math landscape right now.
[00:26:55] You know, there are a handful of companies, including a hers in the direct to consumer space that do it, but not a lot, like, but not a lot. I mean, zero in mass retail where you're going to be able to find something like that. And what I think is extra special is that the puzzle comes with a story. So you do the puzzle and then there's a short story that, you know, mom can read or the children, depending on their age can read kind of explaining like what's going on in the puzzle.
[00:27:23] So it was just something that, between the representation component and kind of that added story element to it that it's not just like you're making a pretty picture. Or you're not just like learning the ABCs, you know, you're actually like engaging with them. It was just a really unique product that I was like, I like one, I want to see this in stores.
[00:27:41]Azhelle Wade: Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. As a black woman for being passionate about that and helping make that happen.
[00:27:46]Greg Watson: So, yeah, that's the story of Amanda and anx puzzles and ride and how you can make a unique, truly differentiated puzzle. I don't disagree. It's very hard.
[00:27:57]Azhelle Wade: Everybody in my group was like, he just wants puzzles. I was like, just don't guess puzzles.
[00:28:03] Greg Watson: I got it. They're taught then. I mean, I think. Especially with some of our existing, well established puzzle publishers.
[00:28:09] It's, you know, how, how do we give target more? How do we give Kohl's more? It's well, it's really hard. You've gotta be really creative because you know, everybody's like, Oh, glow in the dark, or, you know, a search and find like, when you finish the puzzle, you then like find different items in it and, you know, People who do puzzles, they just want to do the puzzle is what we're learning.
[00:28:32]So it's definitely probably the toppest category to break into.
[00:28:38] Azhelle Wade: Okay. But now, because you're coming out with all this great products. And honestly, people want all these different products, like, especially since like the toy industry experienced massive growth in the pandemic and puzzles and games, especially.
[00:28:48] So coming from retail, I'm sure you've experienced the problem of just like we're running out of space. We don't have the physical space at retail, so I don't know. I'd just love to talk a little bit about, have you seen any creative solutions or have you been a part of any creative solutions of like, we can create more space for product by adding in?
[00:29:07]I don't know, like a side kick display here or POP display at the register, or so have you ever been a part of anything like that or do you see something like that evolving right now?
[00:29:16]Greg Watson: Yeah, it's definitely tough because, you know, at the end of the day, puzzles and games and toys have exploded during the pandemic, but all of these mass retailers, they still need to sell groceries and home goods.
[00:29:28] And, you know, there's not just all of a sudden more space because yeah. They still have to carry that product. So, you know, I think it's something that we're seeing a lot more of from retailers is trying to find innovative ways, especially around like key seasonal moments to bring in. Incremental product, whether it's special purchase or kind of a second location for, for inline product where, you know, for the, obviously the holidays is a poor example because that's been, everything goes
[00:29:55] Azhelle Wade: out the window.
[00:29:55] Anything you ask.
[00:29:56] Greg Watson: But even like, you know, Easter or pride month or Hispanic heritage month, black history month, women's, you know, all of these various, celebratory moments, we're seeing a lot of retailers really step it up and say like, you know, how can we bring in products?
[00:30:13] That that fits the theme.
[00:30:14]
[00:30:14]Yeah, I mean, I was blown away by Target's black history month activation I guess two months ago now.
[00:30:21]They had basically, you know, like where. At least at my target store here in Washington, DC, where, where swimwear is right now, they had that entire floor pad built out with special fixtures with all black owned product. And what was. Apparently you got to go to Target more.
[00:30:42]Azhelle Wade: No, I can't. Because every time I go to target, I spend like $200.
[00:30:45]Greg Watson: It's a double edged sword. If you want to know what's going on, you've got to go to the store. Leave the wallet at home and uninstalled the target app,
[00:30:53] Azhelle Wade: right? So tell me, tell me more. Sorry,
[00:30:56] Greg Watson: go ahead. So they had like this whole built-out section with probably like five or six different fixtures in there.
[00:31:02] And what was really cool to me is that they also, obviously they had some product that was brought in specifically for, it had to be merchandised there there's in-store marketing kind of calling it out, but then store employees themselves were actually empowered to find black owned brands from throughout.
[00:31:18] And obviously these. The social aspects of that are critically important in that representation, but even taking like a non specific moment, like holiday, you know, we're seeing a lot of people really kind of blow out and try to find ways to truly differentiate during those key shopping moments. That, that has really, you know, it's changed the way that even at PSI, we think about like how we approach holiday timeframes in conversations with our retailers, because we know they're looking for those unique in incremental ways to merchandise product and things like that.
[00:31:55]Azhelle Wade: Do you think it's helpful when a toy company saying, Oh, I want to work with you guys as a distributor. Is it helpful for you to see, let's say like illustrations or renderings of ideas they might have for how to merchandise their product in a seasonal
[00:32:08] Greg Watson: way.
[00:32:08]Oh, absolutely. We, we love that. We're actually working on a huge cross publisher project right now to do that, but I think it's great.
[00:32:18] So,
[00:32:19] Azhelle Wade: yes, I love this. Oh, you're so good. Thanks, Greg. This is also great. Okay. The last question. To wrap it all up. Is what advice would you give to any publishers or manufacturers listening right now that are seeking to work with a distributor potentially PSI?
[00:32:36]Greg Watson: Yeah. I mean, have the conversation, you know, It's free.
[00:32:40] We don't know what, I don't think anybody's charging for introductory conversations. At least I hope not. But you know, reach out understand what the different business models are and make sure that you've had that understanding internally to say, okay, do I, do I know what I need? Do I need full service?
[00:32:57] Do I need someone who's fulfilling a more operational component? And even on that operational side, All of those folks are also going to operate differently in terms of, you know, how they work with you. So reach out, have those conversations, you know, you're probably gonna leave with some free advice.
[00:33:11]Not just from PSI, but from anybody. You know, our goal here at PSI is to make things easier for our retailers and our publishers. And you know, we. We want to work with folks who, who are aligned with that. So yeah, just reach out. It can't hurt and I can near guarantee it will help you in some way.
[00:33:31]Azhelle Wade: This was a great conversation, Greg, thank you so much. Is there anything else that you want to share about PSI which are working on what's coming down the pipeline or with you personally?
[00:33:40]Greg Watson: You know, I'm going to do a shameless plug here. So I I'm actually releasing, I'm releasing a game of my own, my husband and I created it kind of over Christmas with my parents. So it is called Poof The Game. You can find while we haven't launched it, it's coming in Q3, but www.Poofthegame.com. You can subscribe to our email list. We're also on Instagram. And all the other ones as well. But yeah that's just kind of a fun side project that I think, you know, I've always wanted to do something entrepreneurial.
[00:34:13]But now I understand how it works. So it's like, Oh, this, I can do this. Like I know I can commit to that. So, yeah. That's my shameless sales plug for my own project.
[00:34:22] Azhelle Wade: I'm going to put the links in the show notes. Thanks for sharing.
[00:34:25] Greg Watson: Thank you so much.
[00:34:26] Azhelle Wade: Thanks so much for having thanks so much for coming on the show today, Greg. It was a pleasure to have you
[00:34:30] Greg Watson: here.
[00:34:31] Yeah, you as well. Thanks.
[00:34:32]Azhelle Wade: Toy people. I hope you found that episode extremely insightful and valuable. The big takeaway that I want you to pull from today's episode is one that I repeat time and time again on this podcast, know your ideal target market, your ITM before pitching your toy . Now, Greg reiterated.
[00:34:53] That belief today that it is your job as the toy or game creator, to understand where your toy fits into the retail space that you want to live in. Ask yourself. Where is the white space? Where is the real opportunity?
[00:35:11]Now, if you want bonus points with me, I want you to think up a holiday display solution for the current toy or game project that you're working on right now. What would that look like if executed take notes from what we discussed in today's podcast.
[00:35:28]Now, if you want to see the full video of our interview, head over to club.thetoycoach.com and check out the Podcast Insiders Club. As a member, you get access to the extended audio and video of this episode and so much more.
[00:35:42]If you absolutely love this podcast and you haven't already left a review. What are you waiting for? A huge smile goes over my face and our rush around and show my partner every time a new review comes in. So please, if you appreciate the work that's put into this podcast, I would appreciate your written review.
[00:36:00] Okay. As always, thank you so much for spending time with me here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it means the world to me that you tune into this one until next week. I'll see you later. Toy people. Azhelle Wade: You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 72.
[00:00:04]Hey. There toy people, Azhelle Wade here. And welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, Making It in The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Our guest today, Greg Watson has spent his entire career in the retail industry, but working in apparel than cosmetics and beauty and now toys and games as the national account manager at publisher services, Inc, known as PSI. Greg is responsible for mass market accounts, such as Target Myer, and Kohl's for one of the world's largest toy game and collectible distributors on a personal note.
[00:00:55] Greg lives in Washington, DC with his husband and their two cats and is also releasing a game of his and his husband's own creation later this year, it's called poof the game and we will get into that at the end of the show. And I will give you all the links. But first Greg is joining us to have an important conversation about distribution. How do you obtain distribution for your toy or game in the case of PSI. And I know this is an important conversation for many of my listeners. You have often asked me why would I work with a distributor for my toy or game? Is it really worth it? So Greg is joining us today to answer that question and so many more. Let's dive into the interview.
[00:01:44] Greg, welcome to the show how are you?
[00:01:47]Greg Watson: I'm great. Thanks for having me
[00:01:49]Azhelle Wade: So, glad you're here so to kick it off will you please just give the listeners a overview of how you got into the toy industry?
[00:01:56]Greg Watson: Yeah, absolutely. So my journey to ending up in the toy space was long and winding. I did not set out to end up here, but after graduating from college, I went to work at Target Corporate Headquarters up in Minneapolis, where I was actually in apparel.
[00:02:13]I spent about a year there before I was recruited away to move to Europe, to work for a retailer that was expanding to the US. And there, I worked in store operations, so kind of saw the opposite side from the corporate world. I got to actually see, you know, what it's like to work in the stores kind of at a more macro level.
[00:02:32]But that whole time, my now husband was living back here in the States. So eventually had to make that move back and ended up. Back in Minneapolis home of Target working at a vendor rep group in the cosmetics and beauty space primarily. And then just about a year and a half ago, I joined PSI or Publisher Services, Inc. As a national account manager managing our business at several mass retailers, including target Meijer and Kohl's.
[00:02:59]Azhelle Wade: So tell us who is PSI, because a lot of my listeners are new to the toy industry, but I'm sure the vets listening are like, Oh, we know we know PSI. So who, who is PSI?
[00:03:09]Greg Watson: Yeah. So PSI has been around for nearly 20 years.
[00:03:13] Next year will Mark our 20th anniversary. And we are a while we're one of the world's largest toy games, collectibles puzzles, distributors out there. So anything in the place space, we, we do our. Primary focus is predominantly games and puzzles. So that's, you're going to hear me talk a lot about games today.
[00:03:33]But we are a company of experts. So like I said, we've been around for 20 years, started by veterans of the industry who saw an opportunity to help small. You know, game and toy publishers get into to retail, whether that's the book trade, the hobby space mass market, our goal is to make things easier for them.
[00:03:54] So we currently work with over 140 different publishers. Our catalog list is 10,000 plus titles long. So we work with yeah. Everything from, you know, children's puzzles to like the heaviest weight. Kind of nerdiest strategy games you can think of. We do it all. And we've been behind some of the, the launches Things that you would never have thought started as small companies.
[00:04:20] So you know, we were behind the bringing Caton and Ticket To Ride to the US market.
[00:04:25]I didn't know that cool.
[00:04:28] You know, our goal is to find those kinds of diamonds in the rough that are small, but we see that opportunity. We know that the game is great and you know, we want to bring it to the mass market.
[00:04:38] So exploding kittens. Bananagrams. Most recently we have games like Code Names or Culture Tags, or Taco Cat Goat Cheese Pizza that we brought to the market. Our goal is to partner with our publishers to understand what their vision is, what their product is, and then create a strategy for them and to get to that market.
[00:04:59]You know, I know this, the conversations about distribution, but PSI is truly unique in the industry that we do a lot more than just distribution for our publisher partners.
[00:05:09]Azhelle Wade: My students, I had a call cause I told them we're going to have this amazing distributor coming to the toy pitch event. Why are you the perfect person to be here talking to us today? What's it like being a national accounts manager? What's your day-to-day like, why does that make you such a, you know, a great person to come share information about being a, working with a distributor and all
[00:05:27] Greg Watson: that?
[00:05:28]Yeah. I mean, I think me personally, not only just my title here at PSI, but yeah. I've been on every side of the retail industry at this point for some of the world's largest retailers. So I seen it from the retailers perspective. I seen it from the vendor perspective and then obviously I'm a human, so I shop plenty.
[00:05:45]Yeah.
[00:05:46]I have things that I need to go to the store for. But yeah, as a national account manager, my job is to maintain those relationships with. The retailers. So as a distributor, we are the middleman between, you know, this X, Y or Z publisher. And the retailer PSI is unique in that we have two teams, one that faces retail and one that faces the vendors.
[00:06:07] And then we partner internally to make sure that we're aligned. But you know, my job, especially working with some of the, the scale of retailers that I am, you know, I. Have those conversations with the buyer to understand what they're looking for. And then bring that back internally, both with just PSI, as well as our publisher partners to say, okay, how do we, as PSI needs operate to provide value to both retailers and publishers, because that's what we're here for.
[00:06:36] We're not just servicing one or the other. And then for our publisher partners, it's understanding, okay, I'm I'm community hating those strategies back to you. And here's how PSI is going to help you get. There you know, we take a very hands-on consultated approach here at PSI. So most of our publishers are having regular touch points with both the vendor team, as well as myself to craft strategies specifically for those retailers you know, to help put them in the best.
[00:07:02] Possible positions for, you know, current placements, future placements or products that aren't even in the works yet, or you've never thought of, but we help you get there.
[00:07:11]And I think that's something that, you know, a benefit of working with someone like PSI is that we are all experts and we know how to manage those conversations appropriately and effectively based on, you know, the personalities or, you know, the working styles of the various retailers.
[00:07:26]Azhelle Wade: So what if if someone's listening right now, an entrepreneur and they've got a game that they've developed, maybe they've sold some on their own already and they want to level up and they're thinking, Oh, this sounds like an opportunity for me. I'm curious, as a company, what do you think are the markers of a diamond in the rough game or puzzle like Caton, like Code Names. What are those markers that you guys identify that make you say this is something we should pay attention to?
[00:07:52]Yeah.
[00:07:53] Greg Watson: You know, I think something that you feel a lot in the toys and games, space, you see a lot of things that are licensed. You know, they're hot. People want to buy them because it's X, Y, or Z IP that's behind it. But the product itself is not actually that good. And you know, for us, Number one is, is the game good?
[00:08:13] Like, will people play this once and want to play it again? Or are they going to buy it? Because it caught their eye and then they bring it home. They're like, Oh my gosh, what, why should I spend my money on this? This isn't fun. So for us, you know, we've because we've seen it time and time again with so many different products.
[00:08:32]At its core, it has to be a quality product. Quality is subjective. I get that. But PSI, because we are experts in this space, we play them all. We, we provide that feedback, you know, We've we provide feedback on rule books. You know, if we don't like the way the rules are written or we think they need to be adjusted, we provide that feedback because our goal is to create a product that regardless of how it looks or what kind of that marketing catches, if at its core, people don't want to break it out again and share it with their friends.
[00:09:06] It won't be successful. So, you know, I think first and foremost is. Is the product good. I know any creator is going to say their product is
[00:09:15] . But at the end of the day, you know, however, harsh, it may feel, you know, our goal is to provide constructive, but critical feedback to create the best possible product so that when people bring it home, they tell their friends, they go buy it and so on and so on. And that's how.
[00:09:30]Games like Caton or UNO or Monopoly are classics for a reason. And it's not because they've got, you know they look nice. It's because they're quality products and, and the game play is fun. So I think that's the first thing we look for. I mean, on top of that is, you know, marketability, you know, the way things look are important.
[00:09:50] I am not I'm by no means discounting the impact of statics or licenses or IPS, but that comes second to a good product, but it's got to look good. You know, is it going to stand on, on shelf? Is it different? Is it matching? Even things like color trends or font themes that, that we're seeing in the marketplace.
[00:10:12] And it's not just within the toy space, look at what's happening in beauty and cosmetics.
[00:10:16]Azhelle Wade: I always tell my students, like, look outside of the toy industry as like fashion, we kind of follow fashion. So anything fashion related you can, you can pull from and you'll be on trend with our industry because they've already done it.
[00:10:29]Greg Watson: Yeah, exactly. I mean, look at the colors. People are using it. It's things like that, that, you know, that is important. And then on, I think. Something that gets overlooked is you can have the world's best product. And I'm sure the world's best product exists, but no one has heard of it because you didn't know how to market it.
[00:10:47] You didn't, whether that's your network of folks who were going to share it, or you didn't have the investment or you weren't. Willing to spend, which is more often the case. You weren't willing to listen to people when they said, Hey, you're not going to sell units with this, but you're going to get your brand out there.
[00:11:02] And that is arguably more important. It's things like that where, you know, if you're not willing to really stand behind the product from a marketing standpoint, people might buy it, but it's probably not going to stick around for a whole lot longer.
[00:11:16] Azhelle Wade: How do you guys find products right now? Like, are you, are you actually going actively looking for things that are maybe selling well at smaller retailers and saying, Oh, we can make this big or people reaching out to you or are you going to pitch events? Like the one I called you for, like, how are you finding new people to rep.
[00:11:35]Greg Watson: Oh, it's really a mixed bag.
[00:11:36] I mean, we've been around for a very long time and we've worked with just about everybody out there, even if they're not active publishers, you know, we've had a lot of people kind of graduate on from needing a distributor, like an Exploding Kittens. You know, we had a long, great relationship with them, but, you know, They got big.
[00:11:55] They didn't need us. And that's great. So we, so a lot of it is kind of a referral like, Hey you know, use PSI. They were great for me sort of thing. The toy industry is it's huge, but it's very interconnected. Everyone knows everyone. I'm learning as a newbie to the industry. I'm like the one person people don't know yet.
[00:12:13]But yeah, so a lot of it is people reaching out to us, whether it's through word of mouth or, you know, they have a friend who starts a game and was like, yeah, I worked with PSI, go get in touch with them. But we do have an extremely kind of. Hunt and find mentality in terms of, you know, we want to find I'm going to keep using it diamonds in the rough, you know, we are we've, we've got a business development team who is constantly scouring, Amazon listings, a board game geek for you know, Kickstarter it's, it's huge and the games and toys space.
[00:12:48]You know, we're always, they're always looking at that and saying like, okay, who do we see potential for? You know, Identifying that. And then, like I said, my company is full of people who are really passionate about games. Like I said, didn't grow up in the industry, but I grew up playing games. I've always enjoyed them.
[00:13:05] So. Our company, group chat is like constantly filled with, Hey, has anybody heard of this game? I just got served an ad for it then saying, Hey, biz dev team, can you go reach out to them and see kind of where they're at? Are they interested? So it's something where. Because we're also interested. We do a lot of reaching out ourselves.
[00:13:26]Azhelle Wade: What does a distributor even do for toy publisher? What services do they provide? Tell us what that is.
[00:13:32] Greg Watson: Yeah, so I will start by saying PSI is extremely unique in our business model. I, not that I can say for certain, but I do believe we are one of the few that does everything that we do at its core.
[00:13:45] A distributor serves a purpose for a manufacturer of products and that they serve as like your warehouse and logistics hub to get products, whether that's to individual consumers for, you know, a D to C model or shipping your product to various retailers, you know, whatever that looks like at its core, that's what a distributor does.
[00:14:08] They, I think a lot of them people underestimate just how complicated it is to ship a product. To, to both customers and retailers. So they take that on for you. They have the technology, they have the bandwidth, they have the expertise to do that for you. So you know, a distributor does a relatively straightforward task.
[00:14:30] When you think about the overall kind of. Product supply chain from, you know, once you've got the product made you ship it to the distributor distributor distributor gets it on shelves or into people's mailboxes, et cetera, PSI as you may have gathered, does it a little bit more than that in that we We do it all.
[00:14:50] We are not only the place that holds your inventory, but we are also the place selling your product. So that's not to say that you'll never talk to a buyer or you'll never interact with any of the retailers, but we have a team of sales and marketing folks who manage that for you to let you focus on what you do best, which is product creation.
[00:15:12]You know, we work with every kind of level of. Publisher from, you know, folks where it's like mom and pop shop, like literally just two people who have a product and they need us to do everything for us. Like they couldn't even tell you like what discounting your product at a retailer looks like and what the impact of that might be.
[00:15:31] But then we also work with people who are quite large, who have marketing teams, where they, they need us in a slightly less hands-on capacity. You know, they don't. Need us to say like, Hey, tweak this product. Or like, could you update the packaging? They they've got that figured out. They just need us because we've got those existing relationships with retailers or that expertise in logistics and supply chain.
[00:15:57]Maybe they don't have a sales team. Yeah. So I would say for most folks that we work with, you know, they're choosing to go with us because we take so much on for our, our publisher partners. Whereas other folks, they don't need it. So they just need someone who does a bit more of an operational function for that.
[00:16:15]Azhelle Wade: And do you, do you also do direct to consumer or only B2B.
[00:16:19] Greg Watson: For now we're just B2B.
[00:16:21] So what I'll say is we do, we are active on a lot of drop ship platforms for various retailer retail partners, which is in a form D to C, but at this point, We like, if you've got a website we're not fulfilling individual customer orders, but we do fulfill through like Target.com or Walmart.com or Amazon direct to consumer.
[00:16:43] But that's a much different business model than, you know, fulfilling from your Shopify site or something like that.
[00:16:49]Okay. Before we
[00:16:51] Azhelle Wade: get into like the benefits and what's it, what it takes to work with a distributor like PSI I feel like we should talk about. Just the benefits. You mentioned real quick about marketing, because you mentioned you have a whole marketing team and all that.
[00:17:05] So when you do work with a distributor like yours, like full service, what is that benefit? Is it because you get to be a part of that huge catalog? Is it because you guys are constantly reaching out to your partners and promoting all of the products that you have, like what's, what's that marketing benefit about?
[00:17:20]Greg Watson: Yeah. So I think it's, it's a few different things. So just because I want to be transparent and honest, when we say marketing, like we are not going to be running or social ads. I'm talking like retail marketing specifically, but yeah, I think in terms of the benefits of going with, you know, a full service distributor versus someone who is a little more hands off and not to sound too salesy for PSI.
[00:17:43]We are the vendor of record, which it sounds from listening to podcasts, I know this has come up, but PSI serves as the vendor of record for our retail partners. So all of our publishers, no matter how many placements they have at a specific retailer, roll up under a broader PSI umbrella, which unlocks a lot of opportunities.
[00:18:03]So I think that's just one of the things that I think too is just our level of expertise is, you know, we know what's going on in the market and we know how. How people are shifting how they're getting to customers and how they're attracting customers to them. So we're just able to take things from a bit more of a macro approach than just looking at like, Oh, this is this one product in its silo.
[00:18:25]You know, We get to see it all. And we get to say, Oh, what are people in the strategy game space soon that might apply to the party game space or vice versa? Or, you know, I think we're all very in touch. Like we've got, you know, a dedicated marketing resource. But you know, we're also even the sales folks are all very kind of in touch with.
[00:18:43] You know, we're on Tik TOK. We're, we're seeing what's happening and we are aging millennials.
[00:18:50] Azhelle Wade: On TikTok the other day. I'm pretty sure Gen Z wrote to me, like trying too hard to do a lip sync. I was like, wow.
[00:18:56] Greg Watson: I'm getting
[00:18:57] Azhelle Wade: old, the kids are coming for me.
[00:18:59] Greg Watson: Yeah. Yeah. That's why you don't make them.
[00:19:01] You just watch so that you can't get called out.
[00:19:03]Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's okay. We gotta, we gotta try. I gotta make an effort. Oh, this all sounds so good. Okay. Now that we have primed everyone and everyone's like, Oh, I need to get in on this distributor stuff. This sounds good. Wait, one more thing before I go on vendor of record if you don't know what that is, go back to episode number 62.
[00:19:23]Because we talk about that in that podcast episode. To work with a distributor, what does it take? What, what are those, you know, I don't want to get into the specifics of PSI. Every distributor has different percentages and there's different fees. Like they're all very varied, but. On a general basis. If somebody says, Oh, I want to work with a distributor, what should they work into their pricing? How much should they say, okay, I got to set aside this. I have to take out this much that I can't afford to have somebody help me in the way that a distributor
[00:19:51] Greg Watson: can. Yeah.
[00:19:52] And I mean, to your point, it's the very top because everybody is so unique. You know, I can only speak for, for PSI and how we do it, but generally speaking, we buy things at a percent of MSRP. Across the board, no matter what we take ownership, generally speaking of that product. And then you know, we, we pay you for however many units we, we ordered or we wanted I think.
[00:20:15]A lot from a, you know, what you need to factor into your pricing. It really depends. And it is a case by case basis based on the product category that you're talking about, you know, puzzles, because they are commoditized at this point, you know, requirements I should say are more.
[00:20:31] Are steeper games you know, it's relatively standard, but still there's variables based on the size of the company. You know, I think we're seeing a lot of, you know, smaller brands break through that. We know don't have the margins or the scale that, you know, a Hasbro or a metallic might have. And then even in like, you know, we do some stuff in like the STEM kit slash toys space where margins are a little bit, you know, They're they're smaller.
[00:20:59]Just because there's more stuff.
[00:21:02] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. The components are expensive.
[00:21:04] Greg Watson: Yeah. So it, it really just, it depends on the product.
[00:21:07] And I think the other, the other important factor is what scale are you talking about? You know, if you're talking about a distributor, just. To the sale, like direct to consumer sales, you're talking in a whole different world than like target or Walmart. So like that pricing, it may seem very scary, like, Oh my gosh, like, how could I sell to you at that?
[00:21:30] When I, myself don't even make that right now, it's like, while we're talking about like 500 units versus. 50,000, a hundred thousand, a million. You know, the numbers change pretty dramatically, especially when you're talking to a distributor, who's hoping to get you into the big guys. So, okay.
[00:21:52] Azhelle Wade: I love that.
[00:21:52] And so if somebody is listening, how do they, what do they say? They're like, Oh, I think I've got something good. I think this might work for PSI. What should they come to you prepared with like, they need to bring a, a pitch deck, let's say with their MSRP, showing their product components, showing their packaging figured out, showing they have a factory.
[00:22:12] What, what do you need to see to even consider a product?
[00:22:15]Greg Watson: Yeah, I mean, it. I would say to start, obviously he needs to know what the product is. You need to be able to speak to it in a way that's complete it's you know, you've, you've identified why it's unique to the market, whether it fits a specific white space or it's a theme that you're, you've never seen out there, or, you know, There's something truly new and unique about it.
[00:22:40]I just said like five different ways to describe what white spaces, but yeah,
[00:22:43] no, no, but no,
[00:22:45] Azhelle Wade: I have a whole module describing how to find white space. It's a thing that people need to fully understand. You can't describe it enough. Go ahead.
[00:22:52] Greg Watson: Well, and I think the tough part is if you're going to come to PSI and you know, I don't want this to come out like snooty or like, we're going to turn people down, but like, we don't take on everyone.
[00:23:03] We talk to because at the end of the day, especially because we aren't likely to be the ones fulfilling your direct to consumer business. If we don't think we could get you retail placements. It's going to be tricky. You know, the hobby market is less strict in terms of skew limitations.
[00:23:22]But yeah, generally speaking you, if you come to us and you haven't identified why your product would be special, if it was placed at Barnes and Noble or Hot Topic or Kohl's or wherever you know, that it's going to be. You're asking us to basically decide why your product deserves placement. We'll help with that but we've got to be able to identify that because that also plays into like, do you have a marketing strategy? You know, you've got this great product, but like, how are you planning on. Making people know about it.
[00:23:54]And you know, we'll help you build to a point where you are ready for mass or, you know, one of my most recent success stories is a puzzle brand that very small direct to consumer only. And we. Found her. And I was like, I want to get you in the target. I think there's a, such a unique opportunity.
[00:24:11] Your product is so special, but she had no scale. And, you know, we helped her kind of build up to a point and she is now going to be placed in target. Okay. Wait, I'm
[00:24:24] Azhelle Wade: sorry. I have to stop you because you brought back up puzzles. You brought back out, you reminded me of the puzzle question. So puzzles, you, you talk about puzzles.
[00:24:31] Like you're like, Oh, puzzles is one of our bread and butter. And on my students are like, do they literally just mean like wooden puzzles? Or like, or like just paper puzzles? Or those types of puzzle games. So let us know, like, what do you mean by puzzle?
[00:24:43]Greg Watson: So when I'm talking about puzzles, I'm talking about like, you know, jigsaw puzzles, paper puzzles that are sold in every major retailer that is. What if I say puzzle, that's what I'm talking about.
[00:24:56] Azhelle Wade: What in the world is a paper puzzle that is so innovative to you that you're like, you know what? That's a paper puzzle that Target really needs to have right now.
[00:25:05] And if it's not a license, Yeah.
[00:25:07] Greg Watson: So one of my passion projects has been since, before I joined TSI is helping diversity owned brands break in to the mass space as a gay man, myself. You know, there's a total lack of representation for folks, I think, particularly with puzzles, right? It's a visual medium in that, like, I could make a game, you could make a game, but like, it's not necessarily like nobody's, unless it's like written on the box, like, it's not like, Oh, this is black created or gay owned, whatever it is.
[00:25:37] But with a puzzle, it is a visual medium where. That representation, you know, you're going to know you look at it and you're like, Oh, there are black people on this pocket. So she is a mother of twins and they were premature. Yes. The, the one I'm talking about and why she's so special. But she is the mother of twins who were premature and in the NICU while she was waiting for them to, you know, Get better. She had this idea because she loves puzzles and she had never seen puzzles with black children on them. And she said, I want to create a brand where my children can grow up, seeing themselves on these puzzles.
[00:26:20]So she created this line of puzzles with really cute animation about her twins, they are pseudonyms for that, and they're not actually their names. But you know, it's stories about these children and their friends who live in what's called the Lollipop Forest. And you know, that's something that, you know, I have like chills talking about.
[00:26:39]It's just, it's so use of her brand. So it's called A + X puzzles, a plus x puzzles coming soon to a target near you. I think that representation is beyond important, especially for children. It's not something that exists in the math landscape right now.
[00:26:55] You know, there are a handful of companies, including a hers in the direct to consumer space that do it, but not a lot, like, but not a lot. I mean, zero in mass retail where you're going to be able to find something like that. And what I think is extra special is that the puzzle comes with a story. So you do the puzzle and then there's a short story that, you know, mom can read or the children, depending on their age can read kind of explaining like what's going on in the puzzle.
[00:27:23] So it was just something that, between the representation component and kind of that added story element to it that it's not just like you're making a pretty picture. Or you're not just like learning the ABCs, you know, you're actually like engaging with them. It was just a really unique product that I was like, I like one, I want to see this in stores.
[00:27:41]Azhelle Wade: Thank you. Excellent. Thank you. As a black woman for being passionate about that and helping make that happen.
[00:27:46]Greg Watson: So, yeah, that's the story of Amanda and anx puzzles and ride and how you can make a unique, truly differentiated puzzle. I don't disagree. It's very hard.
[00:27:57]Azhelle Wade: Everybody in my group was like, he just wants puzzles. I was like, just don't guess puzzles.
[00:28:03] Greg Watson: I got it. They're taught then. I mean, I think. Especially with some of our existing, well established puzzle publishers.
[00:28:09] It's, you know, how, how do we give target more? How do we give Kohl's more? It's well, it's really hard. You've gotta be really creative because you know, everybody's like, Oh, glow in the dark, or, you know, a search and find like, when you finish the puzzle, you then like find different items in it and, you know, People who do puzzles, they just want to do the puzzle is what we're learning.
[00:28:32]So it's definitely probably the toppest category to break into.
[00:28:38] Azhelle Wade: Okay. But now, because you're coming out with all this great products. And honestly, people want all these different products, like, especially since like the toy industry experienced massive growth in the pandemic and puzzles and games, especially.
[00:28:48] So coming from retail, I'm sure you've experienced the problem of just like we're running out of space. We don't have the physical space at retail, so I don't know. I'd just love to talk a little bit about, have you seen any creative solutions or have you been a part of any creative solutions of like, we can create more space for product by adding in?
[00:29:07]I don't know, like a side kick display here or POP display at the register, or so have you ever been a part of anything like that or do you see something like that evolving right now?
[00:29:16]Greg Watson: Yeah, it's definitely tough because, you know, at the end of the day, puzzles and games and toys have exploded during the pandemic, but all of these mass retailers, they still need to sell groceries and home goods.
[00:29:28] And, you know, there's not just all of a sudden more space because yeah. They still have to carry that product. So, you know, I think it's something that we're seeing a lot more of from retailers is trying to find innovative ways, especially around like key seasonal moments to bring in. Incremental product, whether it's special purchase or kind of a second location for, for inline product where, you know, for the, obviously the holidays is a poor example because that's been, everything goes
[00:29:55] Azhelle Wade: out the window.
[00:29:55] Anything you ask.
[00:29:56] Greg Watson: But even like, you know, Easter or pride month or Hispanic heritage month, black history month, women's, you know, all of these various, celebratory moments, we're seeing a lot of retailers really step it up and say like, you know, how can we bring in products?
[00:30:13] That that fits the theme.
[00:30:14]
[00:30:14]Yeah, I mean, I was blown away by Target's black history month activation I guess two months ago now.
[00:30:21]They had basically, you know, like where. At least at my target store here in Washington, DC, where, where swimwear is right now, they had that entire floor pad built out with special fixtures with all black owned product. And what was. Apparently you got to go to Target more.
[00:30:42]Azhelle Wade: No, I can't. Because every time I go to target, I spend like $200.
[00:30:45]Greg Watson: It's a double edged sword. If you want to know what's going on, you've got to go to the store. Leave the wallet at home and uninstalled the target app,
[00:30:53] Azhelle Wade: right? So tell me, tell me more. Sorry,
[00:30:56] Greg Watson: go ahead. So they had like this whole built-out section with probably like five or six different fixtures in there.
[00:31:02] And what was really cool to me is that they also, obviously they had some product that was brought in specifically for, it had to be merchandised there there's in-store marketing kind of calling it out, but then store employees themselves were actually empowered to find black owned brands from throughout.
[00:31:18] And obviously these. The social aspects of that are critically important in that representation, but even taking like a non specific moment, like holiday, you know, we're seeing a lot of people really kind of blow out and try to find ways to truly differentiate during those key shopping moments. That, that has really, you know, it's changed the way that even at PSI, we think about like how we approach holiday timeframes in conversations with our retailers, because we know they're looking for those unique in incremental ways to merchandise product and things like that.
[00:31:55]Azhelle Wade: Do you think it's helpful when a toy company saying, Oh, I want to work with you guys as a distributor. Is it helpful for you to see, let's say like illustrations or renderings of ideas they might have for how to merchandise their product in a seasonal
[00:32:08] Greg Watson: way.
[00:32:08]Oh, absolutely. We, we love that. We're actually working on a huge cross publisher project right now to do that, but I think it's great.
[00:32:18] So,
[00:32:19] Azhelle Wade: yes, I love this. Oh, you're so good. Thanks, Greg. This is also great. Okay. The last question. To wrap it all up. Is what advice would you give to any publishers or manufacturers listening right now that are seeking to work with a distributor potentially PSI?
[00:32:36]Greg Watson: Yeah. I mean, have the conversation, you know, It's free.
[00:32:40] We don't know what, I don't think anybody's charging for introductory conversations. At least I hope not. But you know, reach out understand what the different business models are and make sure that you've had that understanding internally to say, okay, do I, do I know what I need? Do I need full service?
[00:32:57] Do I need someone who's fulfilling a more operational component? And even on that operational side, All of those folks are also going to operate differently in terms of, you know, how they work with you. So reach out, have those conversations, you know, you're probably gonna leave with some free advice.
[00:33:11]Not just from PSI, but from anybody. You know, our goal here at PSI is to make things easier for our retailers and our publishers. And you know, we. We want to work with folks who, who are aligned with that. So yeah, just reach out. It can't hurt and I can near guarantee it will help you in some way.
[00:33:31]Azhelle Wade: This was a great conversation, Greg, thank you so much. Is there anything else that you want to share about PSI which are working on what's coming down the pipeline or with you personally?
[00:33:40]Greg Watson: You know, I'm going to do a shameless plug here. So I I'm actually releasing, I'm releasing a game of my own, my husband and I created it kind of over Christmas with my parents. So it is called Poof The Game. You can find while we haven't launched it, it's coming in Q3, but www.Poofthegame.com. You can subscribe to our email list. We're also on Instagram. And all the other ones as well. But yeah that's just kind of a fun side project that I think, you know, I've always wanted to do something entrepreneurial.
[00:34:13]But now I understand how it works. So it's like, Oh, this, I can do this. Like I know I can commit to that. So, yeah. That's my shameless sales plug for my own project.
[00:34:22] Azhelle Wade: I'm going to put the links in the show notes. Thanks for sharing.
[00:34:25] Greg Watson: Thank you so much.
[00:34:26] Azhelle Wade: Thanks so much for having thanks so much for coming on the show today, Greg. It was a pleasure to have you
[00:34:30] Greg Watson: here.
[00:34:31] Yeah, you as well. Thanks.
[00:34:32]Azhelle Wade: Toy people. I hope you found that episode extremely insightful and valuable. The big takeaway that I want you to pull from today's episode is one that I repeat time and time again on this podcast, know your ideal target market, your ITM before pitching your toy . Now, Greg reiterated.
[00:34:53] That belief today that it is your job as the toy or game creator, to understand where your toy fits into the retail space that you want to live in. Ask yourself. Where is the white space? Where is the real opportunity?
[00:35:11]Now, if you want bonus points with me, I want you to think up a holiday display solution for the current toy or game project that you're working on right now. What would that look like if executed take notes from what we discussed in today's podcast.
[00:35:28]Now, if you want to see the full video of our interview, head over to club.thetoycoach.com and check out the Podcast Insiders Club. As a member, you get access to the extended audio and video of this episode and so much more.
[00:35:42]If you absolutely love this podcast and you haven't already left a review. What are you waiting for? A huge smile goes over my face and our rush around and show my partner every time a new review comes in. So please, if you appreciate the work that's put into this podcast, I would appreciate your written review.
[00:36:00] Okay. As always, thank you so much for spending time with me here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it means the world to me that you tune into this one until next week. I'll see you later. Toy people.
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