Episode #185: Dolls That Celebrate Asian Diversity with Samantha Ong
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In this episode of the Making It In The Toy Industry, Samantha Ong shares her journey in launching Joeydolls and highlights the importance of representation in the toy industry. Samantha's passion for creating culturally diverse dolls stems from her desire to combat the lack of representation and stereotypes faced by Asian children. By spreading joy and empowering children to feel proud of their heritage, Samantha aims to make a meaningful impact. Listeners will gain valuable insights into Samantha's strategies for building a following on Instagram, her decision to do a pre-order campaign instead of using Kickstarter, and the challenges she faced during the production process.
This episode serves as a reminder of the significance toys have in shaping children's perceptions of themselves and the world around them. Parents and toy industry professionals alike will be inspired to take action towards creating more diverse and culturally representative toys.
Samantha's mission to create culturally diverse dolls highlights the significance of representation in the toy industry. By sharing her authentic journey of building a loyal following on Instagram and launching a successful pre-order campaign, Samantha provides valuable insights for parents and toy industry professionals. Listeners will discover the importance of involving the community in the product development process, providing value to subscribers through educational materials and discounts, and overcoming challenges in the production process. Samantha's story is an inspiration that resonates with anyone passionate about inclusivity and celebrating the beauty of different cultures. Tune in to gain insights into the power of toys in shaping children's perceptions and learn how to make a meaningful impact in the toy industry.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Learn about licensing in the Toy Industry [00:07:54]
Discover what goes into creating games for specific IP [00:09:47]
Find out what happened when Funko acquired Forest-Pruzan Creative [00:13:40]
Understand the struggle of coming out from under the shadow [00:16:52]
Discover the size of the games division [00:18:27]
Learn the path to growth and diversification [00:19:52]
See what it’s like creating immersive gameplay experiences [00:21:21]
Learn the process on designing for preschoolers [00:26:11]
Discover Funko's unique approach to game development [00:32:34]
Find out if there are any job opportunities at Funko [00:33:53]
Gain deep and insightful advice for success in the toy industry [00:36:37]
Learn about Deirdre's childhood game [00:37:39]
Discover all the ways to connect with Funko games [00:38:45]
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Samantha Ong: But the very, very, very beginning, I will say I was just trying to find someone that could do it, like as cheap as possible. Right. And I think that I put myself in a hole. It was actually good in a way to have that two year development process because I was able to build hype and really show my community like, Why I was doing things really explain like the behind the scenes process.
So they felt like they were a part of it because of all of that. They just felt even more excited to, you know, buy the doll on launch day. Um, when it finally came to it. Welcome to making it in the Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors and entrepreneurs like you. And now your host, Wade.
Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people.
Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by the toy coach.com. Today's guest is A T C A alum who's making big waves in the industry. Samantha Ung is the passionate founder of Joey Dolls, a visionary entrepreneur and a loving mother with a deep rooted desire to combat the increased anti-Asian hate during the pandemic, and create cultural diversity and representation.
Samantha embarked on a mission to empower young children by celebrating the beauty of Asian culture. She did this through her doll line. Joey Dolls now despite facing numerous challenges during the two year development phase of her product. Samantha remains steadfast in her commitment to deliver high quality, culturally accurate, beautiful dolls.
Samantha's personal experiences as a minority, and a mother inspired her to create the line of dolls that would help children feel proud of their heritage and embrace their unique identities. So through this brand, Joey Dolls, Samantha. Is making an it a positive impact by fostering inclusivity and spreading awareness about the importance of representation in our diverse society.
I am so thrilled to have Samantha at the show. Welcome, Samantha. Thank you for being
Samantha Ong: here. I. Thank you for having me, angel. I
Azhelle Wade: am thrilled. As you may know, if you follow along with the Toy Coach Social World. Samantha was also featured in our first ever Toy Coach Showcase, and her product did extremely well there.
Um, during this time we've seen a focus on, you know, appreciating black culture, and now we're seeing that focus go into Asian culture and I'm just so happy to be associated with you, someone who's making such a beautiful and high quality line. So I'm really proud. Yay.
Samantha Ong: Go you. Thank
Azhelle Wade: you. Now, if you are watching this interview live with us, I just wanna let you know you can leave comments and I will see them If you're on LinkedIn, if you're on YouTube, we can see your comments and I'll bring them up on the screen.
So ask questions as we go through this. Feel free to ask questions to me or to Samantha, and we will answer them. So I wanna focus mostly on the topic today of the struggles of creating. A diverse Asian doll line. It seems very niche, but, and it's also a high quality, therefore a higher price point product.
So through our conversation today, Samantha, I really wanna get into how you navigated all of that. But to start, I'd love to just start with where did you get this idea to create a doll line? What made you want to even try to break into the toy
Samantha Ong: industry? Yeah, I never imagined that I would be in the toy industry.
Um, it really was the pandemic that forced me to pivot because I was, you know, I was wedding photographer. So for those two years during the pandemic, I really was unable to work. I lost so many contracts as weddings were canceled for those two years. So, um, I really struggled with, um, who I was, who as a person, like what my, my purpose was.
'cause I always thought like, I'm a creative person. I was really good at doing photography and then all of a sudden I just couldn't do it anymore. So I was just like, now what? So it was then when I was watching the news and like the rise in anti-Asian hate was occurring. So, um, I was sitting with my daughter in my lap and just feeling really afraid of like the world that was gonna be for her as she grows up.
So, you know, as we were in lockdown, she couldn't play with anyone. So that's when I was looking for dolls and I. When I was looking for dolls, I really, it forced me to also reflect upon my own experience growing up and not seeing myself through the dolls. And I didn't know it at the time as a, as a child, but this like subconscious, um, narratives that really play into your minds.
Like I remember thinking, um, my classmates. They look like my dolls. They're so pretty to be born that way. I am not so pretty. Like I'm so unlucky. Um, and I was so envious of them. And so that's when I thought, well, if I felt that way about myself, then I need to find something, you know better, like more.
That looks like my daughter is through dolls. And when I was looking at the dolls, like there were dolls that were, you know, called Asian like that. I felt like they were like the token Asian doll where they had like fair skin or black hair. But I. That was about it like that. And then they were just Asian and I just, I couldn't connect with it.
So, and they also had like, typically like stereotypical features and that was something that I think a lot of. I don't wanna speak on, on a lot of people, but I think many Asians feel conscious, subconscious about, about like their eyes or, you know, and so this is something that I really wanted to celebrate.
Um, and, and, and when I wanted to do the dolls, I wanted something that was really. Opposite to what we were seeing happening in the world. Like all that hate. And I wanted to really spread joy. Uh, so that's when I, when I, I had so much trouble looking for dolls that my husband was just like, why don't you make them?
And your husband? Ha, your husband said that? That's so funny. Yeah. Can he put that, uh, idea in my head? And I was like, oh, I, I guess, uh, maybe I should, that's a
Azhelle Wade: possibility. I would love to hear now. Um, For you, now that you have experience in the toy industry, you actually did your own thing direct to consumer and then broke into the toy industry with your first toy trade show.
Yeah. So finish this sentence for me. The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry
Samantha Ong: was how long the prototyping phase would take.
Azhelle Wade: Really? Yeah. Tell us more about that story.
Samantha Ong: So when I got into it, I was like, how hard could this be? Like I, I know, I think I know what I want. Um, let's try to design it a little bit.
Let's just go like full forward and, and let's try and get these dollars out by this year and. I was like, oh, this is, this should be pretty easy. I'll, I'll go on, um, go online. I'll try and find a factory. Uh, and of course I have no idea what I'm doing. So I think finding the factory was like really critical, like finding the right one that knew exactly what I wanted to do and was in line with like, really the understanding what we wanted.
But also I. Didn't know for myself, I think what I wanted, and so even though I thought I did, and so there was like a lot of versions that I ended up going through. Of course, like I wanted it to be like all culturally accurate, but like I. In. In doing so, there was just so much like research that I wanted to make sure, and also like gathering feedback from so many people and also like the materials, finding the right materials.
I didn't know that it would be so hard. Um, and just making sure all the quality was like exactly what I wanted it like. Like sometimes I, I think it's okay. And then when I got it in person, it was just not what I expected. So, um, that's when I had to go back and then refine, um, new factory to, to, to, um, like complete my design process.
Yeah, I I'd love
Azhelle Wade: to hear about that. 'cause when you decided to switch factories, we were in, I wanna say week four-ish of the
Samantha Ong: program, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I remember
Azhelle Wade: you kept coming into the calls like. Like, oh, I have this problem with the factory and I'm having this problem. And I remember just thinking like, I don't think this is a good factory, but I know.
But you also had told me you'd been developing it with them for so long. You had samples. I saw photos, so I didn't wanna say what I knew we needed to say, but I think it was when I. You, I don't remember what you said where I, I was suddenly just like, okay, I have to tell you, I think you need to change factor.
Samantha Ong: Like,
Azhelle Wade: can, can you tell me what that felt like when I said that? How, what were you thinking in that moment?
Samantha Ong: Um, I think you mentioned it like before that point where I finally decided to change it. Yeah. And then you were like, I really think you had to like, I think you like hinted at it. Yeah. And I was getting that feeling, but I was still really hesitant.
Um, so when you finally said it and then you explained like why, I was just like, and I think you gave me that like really good analogy about it being like,
Even though you've, so my feeling was that I've been with this factory for so long and I felt like I had this, I guess I, I had to like, see it through like, like I had to keep working on it and eventually we'll get there. And when you made that like analogy with the relationship, like if it's not the right fit, like you can't.
Force it. Like, and I think that's what I really saw because I haven't worked with a factory before, so I don't really understand like this whole like dynamic of, um, like initially I thought like it, I was so lucky for a factory to work with me and versus it being the other way around, like, I am the client, so I need to make the choice that for me, yes.
Seeing it that way, putting the power back in my court was like a huge, huge change for me because I just always thought, okay, this is the only factory that wants to work with me. Right? Yeah. And then to keep trying to work at it and, and it just took so long and I wasn't getting there and all that stuff.
So when you were like, no, like go find. One of the factories, um, they're already vetted. And then I think that also helped a lot because then I knew that I could just go straight into it. And you'd al also said that I'd already done so much of the design process at up until. Hmm. That it, it won't take as long.
It is just refining it and making sure, um, the quality was good.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And I know there was a worry on your side and my side, and I, so this I'm sure will help anybody that watches this video. Uh, we were worried that, oh, you know, we've been working with this factory for so long and we leave them, what does that say to our reputation?
Mm-hmm. Um, and then at the end of the day, as you were describing things, it, it became very clear that they had. Kind of bait and switched you. Like they said, yes, we see what you want and we can totally do it. And then when it came down to the wire and they knew you needed them, they were like, oh no, we're not gonna do that.
And then that was the point where I was like, I think your contract, verbal contract of working with them is now null and void because they promised one thing. They're not delivering it. They're telling you, they're making you wait and wonder and they're not, they weren't even being clear. Like I remember one of your issues had to do with printing, I think on a certain fabric.
And the other had to do with a material, like a lace, like material you wanted and Oh, yeah. Right. And then they weren't the printing, they couldn't explain why they couldn't print on the fabric. Oh no. It was, it was a dying of fabric. They were printing a skin color instead of dying or something like that.
Yeah, yeah. So then they couldn't explain why they couldn't source the right fabric, especially because you were hitting an M O Q when you're hitting an M O Q, like they should be doing, developing what you want. Um, and not using open market, whatever. And then aside from the fabric, uh, the lace piece, they said, you know, we don't have it.
And that was like it. Yeah. And when you develop a product with a factory and you do intend to order not only the M L Q but hopefully reorders, they're supposed to say, we don't have that, but here are some other options. Or they're supposed to say, other clients have done this instead. Even if they can't give you what you want, there should have been a solution to the problem.
Yeah, so that's what really worried me. I was like, why? Why are they not being solution
Samantha Ong: oriented? Right. And I was waiting a long time to, to get responses, so, and not good ones. Right.
Azhelle Wade: So once you switched factories and you made that move, how did you, like how soon till you realized, oh, I made the right choice.
Samantha Ong: Um, so I think when we. Were able to turn around like all the, like the new samples so quickly and then they understood, like, of course I still needed to go back a couple of times to refine something 'cause it, I still had to clarify a few things. But I think when I was able to see like, I get so much, I, I was able to make so much, uh, progress.
Yeah. Uh, in. Short period of time and like the, the communication was so much better. I was able to reach them and ask questions. And so even if I was like, why can't we do it like this? Then there was like, okay, we can't do it like this for these reasons. And then it was explained to me, I understood and like, okay, then I understand it, then I can suggest a new way to do it.
And then they could suggest you a way to do it, and then we could come to like an agreement about it.
Azhelle Wade: Mm-hmm. So the lesson from this portion of the conversation, I have to say, is always quote with at least three factories to start, like just start a conversation because one might not. Be communicative.
One might not actually be able to deliver what you want. One might just be too expensive. You need some options to choose from. Yeah. Okay. That's
Samantha Ong: great. Yeah, definitely. I think like I was, I didn't know at the time like what to expect, like this whole process I. And then initially when I was trying to find a factory, I was so at the very, very, very beginning.
I will say I was just trying to find someone that could do it like as cheap as possible. Right? Really, really like. I put myself in a hole. Yeah. Um, because I didn't know, like the response like that I would have and then over, it was actually good in a way to have that two year development process because I was able to like really build my community.
I was able to build hype, um, through that. And I really show my community like why I was doing things and. Really explain like the behind the scenes process. So they felt like they were a part of it and because of all of that, um, they just felt even more excited to, to have the, um, to be like, you know, by the doll on launch day, um, when it finally came to it.
So, um, I think it was really good to, to do it that way. Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: So, so I would love to now dive into your unintentional two year ramp up to your brand. Yeah. So, so. What? Yeah, so it was completely unintentional. You were developing the dolls. When you started, you thought we'll get these out in a, in a year. So I'm sure when you were posting about them, you were posting about them as if like, can't wait till, get these to you guys next year or this year.
So excited. Yeah. So, so, so how did you start that following? Was it Instagram? Was it,
Samantha Ong: what platform did you start with? Definitely was Instagram, just because like, I was so familiar with Instagram and, and I did a bit of Facebook, but I wasn't really hitting Facebook that much. Um, I just wasn't seeing the engagement there.
Mm-hmm. Um, so I just followed, like, I played around with a few, but Instagram was really the one that. Was, had the most engagement and so yes, I really was going, okay, can't wait to do it by this year and then this day, and then I was like, we're gonna be on Kickstarter. And then hopefully by, because I was really hoping for like, um, a A P I month and, 'cause I think that's just a big point for us to celebrate our culture.
Yeah. In May. So it was gonna be, um, 2022. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, then it didn't happen. Yeah. It just wasn't gonna happen. And then I was just like, okay, next year. But it was okay because in that, like last year was when I really increased like my followers so much because I was posting a lot more about like the production process and, and you know, I always felt that when I was posting that I had it, I had to have you get like, perfect.
I didn't want really wanna show. Mm-hmm. Like all like the pitfalls and like sort of all the struggle that I was having. But in doing so, I think people really related with my process in that like I wasn't just like a company trying to make the these dolls that I really am just a mom trying to, I. Make these dolls for young children.
Like there was a real mission behind it. Yeah. And they were really being like, I was really taking the time to, um, develop it in a way that was true to being culturally accurate. So, and so I think I. A lot of people resonated with that, and even though it took longer than they wanted, they were happy
Azhelle Wade: to wait.
How did you know what hashtags to use or how did you get people to see your posts? What do you think helped
Samantha Ong: do that? I. Um, so at the beginning I just played around a little bit with like, I didn't spend like too much money on it, but I just played around with like boosting some posts just to see okay. At the very, very beginning, of course, like wasn't really doing much.
Um, but as I was progressing and I was getting some. Sample prototype, like prototype photos, right? Those like did really, really well. Um, and so I would just, um, post like things that I thought, like my target market, like defining that target market, um, and then thinking about what their interests would be in that target market.
And then just seeing like, yeah, who was out there, but also I joined like a se several, like. Mom, Facebook groups that, um, I thought may be interested. And then also just posting things like what do you think about, like, actually a big part of my, my progress with like developing the community was like asking feedback, um, about things.
And people were really more than happy to provide feedback and especially the names. Like I, initially I was going to name all of the dolls and then I was like, this is a really hard pro, um, process to name doll. Like the name is such a significant thing and there's so much meaning behind it. I'm really glad that I opened it up to the community because I wouldn't have known all these nuances about like the different cultures and what they meant.
And for example, like the Indian doll I had such a hard time with, I was so challenging because, um, there's so many religions and languages in India. And so finding a name that would resonate with. As many, uh, Indian girls, um, was really challenging 'cause a lot of the, the names were so, um, religious focused.
Yeah. I had to find a name that was, I. That would relate to as many, uh, religions in India. And so even the, the Korean name was really hard because I didn't know this, that the Korean language is so heavily influenced by the Chinese language, and so there's not too many names that are just purely Korean.
Oh, so. I had to like really, really find out like which names were just purely Korean and that had good meaning as well.
Azhelle Wade: The authenticity is admirable. Okay. I wanna ask now, since you did this pre-launch, love that by the way. I have two questions at one, at one point, at some point, were you ever nervous that somebody was gonna just rip off your idea, take it, make it the set themselves, and then you would be out in the cold?
Samantha Ong: Yeah, that's why I was such in a rush to like do it
and that's why I was like, like I just need to get it out. I just need to get it out. But at the same time, I think it was good that I spent the time to do it because I think if you develop like a product that people really, really want, Then you don't have to market it that much. Mm-hmm. And you don't have to try to sell it that much because it just speaks for itself.
And I think I really felt that if I had have put out the doll that I wanted to do two years ago, like I don't think many people would've wanted it. Interesting. And so interesting two year process. Yeah. Like redefining my idea. So like even though the. The prototyping process with the factory took a long time, but it also forced me to redefine my idea and like gather that feedback from people and like add more details, which I, I didn't really think about at the beginning.
And so, because people could see all that work and really when they saw it, they just like, I had so many people reach out to me and say, this looks just like my daughter, or this reminds me of, you know, my, my, like the clothing that I used to wear as a child and stuff like that. And I thought when, when people could see that and like really relate to it mm-hmm.
That's when they like really knew, really felt like the significance of the doll.
Azhelle Wade: I love that. I wanna, I wanna here, since we're talking about it so much, we need to pull them up so we can look at them while we're talking about your beautiful dolls. I said
Samantha Ong: Beautiful. Your beautiful
Azhelle Wade: dolls. So my second question for you is, you know, this is really the personal curiosity of mine.
Mm-hmm. Because
Samantha Ong: you've done so much work
Azhelle Wade: on your own, what value did you end up getting from T C A?
Samantha Ong: Yeah, I think that support of not giving up, like when I reached out to you that one time, like the quality wasn't good. I like, I dunno what's going on with the factory and all this other, I just felt like really stuck 'cause I, it had been so long and I just felt like we weren't get getting anywhere.
And I, I was going and I knew that if I sold the doll as it was, that it, I just wasn't happy with it. And I just knew that if I sold it as it was that. People also wouldn't be happy with it. Right. So that's when I thought, oh, like should I just give up? Because there was, I'd already been been putting so much money in my time and I was like, where is this going?
And then I think at that time I was also seeing like other competitors putting up out their own like dolls out there. Right. And when I was like, I'm not even beating. The market right now, like I, what's the point sort of thing. And then I really stayed true to like making it about the cultures because even though there were other people trying to do it out there, like I was still like really, really focused in on the, the cultures and making it so culturally accurate and spending that extra time to do that.
Yeah, that was really setting us apart from others. I, I really,
Azhelle Wade: I'm glad that it, um, helped you in that way. I didn't, you know, it's scary because when I'm in this position as a coach and I'm encouraging people to do these things that are big investments of their time and their resources, you know, it's, it's scary.
But I, the fact that you, you, I think you had started to underestimate and undervalue what you've built. Even I've done that in my own business where because you made it, you start to think it's not that big of a deal. But like when I saw the, the immense following you've already had, I was like, you can't give up.
You know how hard it's to build something like this. This is incredible. Okay, so now that we're sharing screen, I'm actually going into your Instagram and I'm intentionally, um, scrolling back. If you're listening to this episode, go check out the video on YouTube because we're getting really visual right now.
Um, so I wanna scroll back into your early days of your u into your early days of your YouTube, into your early days of your Instagram, um, and really look at what you started with, because this is something that I would love people to do more of so that they can kind of vet and test their ideas a little bit themselves before they spend all of their money on it, right.
So when you didn't have a product in these early days, you're posting quotes that align with. What people in your niche believe in, you're posting illustrations of what you think the dolls will look like. So you're posting their character designs, you're post posting sketches, and we can see there are variations.
Like this doll uh, design here does not look the same as this sketch, this book sketch over here. But you're not at this point keeping yourself to much more than maybe a color palette. You have like a pink, purple color palette, but you're really allowing yourself to just share. What you think this will be?
You introduce yourself in some of these posts. It's all about the meaning and identity of the brand. What people, like you said, are interested in believe in that would also like this brand. You announced your Kickstarter at some point. I wanna ask, how often do you remember how often you were posting at this time?
Samantha Ong: It was hard to generate content at that time. 'cause I didn't really have much. Yeah. But I think I was trying to post at least once at the time, but I think it was a, a kind of a struggle. Did you say once a day of the post? Sorry? Once a week. Oh, once a week. Um, at that time, yeah. The very, very beginning.
But yeah, it was a struggle. And then I felt like I was just posting for the sake of posting. Like that post was like a barely nothing post. Mm-hmm. Still got so
Azhelle Wade: many likes for no reason. Love it. And like 12 hashtags, nothing fancy,
Samantha Ong: right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I didn't wanna like keyword a key hashtag stuff it.
And so, yeah. I think when I put that first, uh, prototype doll photo, this one here, that's when it got the vote. Yeah. Even though it wasn't the, the final, like how it would look right now. Like it's so different to what it would look now. Yeah. So different. Yeah. I think that was the very first time. Finally someone's like the, everyone saw what.
You were doing it would look like illustration. Yeah. Because at the illustration stage, people couldn't really visualize it. Like, what would it really look like? Mm-hmm. Um, but at that point I was just sharing about a story and like just here and there. I, um, but it was love this approach. I, this
Azhelle Wade: approach is so smart.
It's so smart. Like you're sharing the identity of, of what this brand is, and then you're sharing a little bit about you, the creator, a little bit about your family not getting so, Personal, but a little bit. And then you're saying join our v I P list, starting your email list.
Samantha Ong: Love that. Love that. Support that.
Yeah. So that was a big thing that I tried to cultivate the v i P list, the email list. 'cause it was such a huge part of the pre-order stage. And even though I didn't end up doing Kickstarter, I just did it on my website. Yeah. Um. It was such, it was so huge to have that email list and so I really needed to provide incentives for people to join that email list.
Like I, I know that I don't like signing up to a bunch of these email lists. I worry about what people would spam me, so I really needed to provide like value. That when people joined the, um, that people would get value out of it. You know, I would tell them, yes, you would get an early bird discount on launch day.
Um, but also we would send you like things that you could do with your children during that, like waiting time. And so like I would put out like freebies, like digital downloads, like if you sign up. Um, and I wanted it to be stay true to our brand. So what I did was I. These dolls were supposed to provide education and awareness about like Asian diversity.
So I created like little digital downloads like about China, about the Philippines, and then I did like coloring books about them and so they would just be free and then you'd had to sign up as an email subscriber to to do that, to get that. This seems similar
Azhelle Wade: to what I think some of the lessons in module seven actually.
Samantha Ong: Right. Yeah. So I think I was actually listening. I hadn't, I wasn't a T c a me, uh, student at the time, Uhhuh, but I was actually listening to another Kickstarter. I can't remember what were. Oh, I know, I know
Azhelle Wade: which one. E Um, not e Evie. Evie
Samantha Ong: Evvy. It was like
Azhelle Wade: a book. Yep. Evie. The Book of Cultures. Book of
Samantha Ong: Cultures.
Yep. Yes, yes. Yeah. So I remember they were saying that they hit kind of like a, like a little slump in their. Marketing phase in their, in their, uh, Kickstarter and then they put out little downloads for, um, during that phase. And so that's when I got the idea of doing that. Yeah. For my email list.
Azhelle Wade: Love it.
Yes. Love it. Um, actually her name's pronounced Evie. My bad, but Okay. That's okay. Yeah, that's great. Okay. So I just wanted to scroll back and, and see this, I love going back, even in my own competitor world, to see what people first started posting and where they began. And then, and then you know, as you had the product and as you had more to share, it kind of evolved.
You're sharing the purpose. I love this photo of you. Is this you and your mom?
Samantha Ong: Yeah. And then why I was doing the dolls, because exactly. This was my story. Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: Love it. You with a blonde, blonde, blue eyed doll, like that's brilliant. I mean, this is pre brilliant pre-marketing. Love it. Okay, so. I want to go into this whole thing of a Kickstarter.
At what point did you decide, I'm not doing a Kickstarter, I'm gonna just, and tell me why and I'm gonna just do it on my own website? Yeah.
Samantha Ong: Right. Actually, you kind of questioned it for me. Like you were like, why? Why are you doing a Kickstarter? Yeah. And because I thought like that was the way to do it.
Like I had to do it on Kickstarter and. And you were like, why don't you just do it on your website and then like see how it goes.
Azhelle Wade: Wait, was it, I think it might've been because you were trying to delay the timeline if you did Kickstarter. 'cause then you were like, well, I have to learn how to do Kickstarter.
Samantha Ong: Was that, yeah, it actually, Kickstarter was really like a stressful idea for me because. With Kickstarter, it feels like an all or nothing thing. So you put a campaign goal and if you don't hit your goal, then you just don't get the whole funding. Right. And also it's very public, so I would like your numbers.
Yeah, the numbers. Yeah, the numbers are very public and you had to do it within 30 days. Right. So you only had 30 days to do it. So I felt that okay, that whole month I had to give it like my a hundred percent. Like I had to spend all my time, you know, contacting all these people. Yeah. And if I didn't get the number that I wanted, like then it's just gonna be there forever.
Yeah. Yeah. Also, there was a lot of Kickstarter fees. So when you were like, why don't you just do it on your website? And, and at that time, I actually did have a decent amount of people on my email list. Right. Decent amount of people on my Instagram
Azhelle Wade: define decent. How many on your email list at the time?
Samantha Ong: So it was, I think about 4,000, and then Instagram was 5,000. Okay. And at the time I was like, okay, if I can just. If I do it on my website and maybe I get like a hundred people that order on launch day, and then maybe I get another, like as I go, I could still build on it. Whereas, whereas with Kickstarter, if I don't get the people all in that 30 days, then I.
Then it will be a fail in my eyes anyway. And I just felt like so overwhelmed by the process and I was, I was learning about it. Like I had to do, you know, all these like stretch goals or like, you know, it just seemed like a really complicated process for me anyway. Mm. Even though I, I, I read about it and all of that, and so I already had my, my website set up for e-commerce.
I just had to like, change it a little bit for pre-orders. And then, yeah, and then that's when I just decided to, actually, I did a poll on my Instagram and oh, where, Actually, it was honest stories. Oh, okay. So it's, yeah, it's disappeared now, but I just put it out there. What would you prefer? Would you prefer to do it on Kickstarter or On my website.
And the was response was overwhelming. Like 99.5, like only two people were said Kickstarter. Really? Really? I got so many people who said that they wanted to do it on my website. Interesting. And it's. Even before I did that poll, there was a few people that dmd me and said, are you sure you're gonna do on Kickstarter?
'cause I don't like Kickstarter. Yeah. Wow. And it's interesting. Yeah, because I think they've had, um, such a bad experience with Kickstarter. And maybe they had say, two bad experiences with the common denominator was Kickstarter. So they just think, well, it's Kickstarter. Right. And not the person behind the Kickstarter.
Yeah. And so, and a lot of people said, well, if we're gonna pay money for it, like I'd rather all the money go to directly. Exactly. Rather than, exactly.
Azhelle Wade: And that's the hard part with developing toys is your profit. Mm-hmm. You know, like Right. The shipping and the manufacturing and you've, you have a markup, but you know, it doesn't, I mean, your markup, you don't get all of that because there's storage and there's defects and there's testing and, you know.
Yeah. So like when Kickstarter comes in a take a percentage and it's not even guaranteed to get to your people, that could be damaging to your brand. Mm-hmm. What if, mm-hmm. You know, the thousand people that wanted it can't get it now because the whole Kickstarter's not funded. And then what, like you still wanna make this line.
So I would say I feel like in from your experience, seeing that unfold and other people I've spoken to, Kickstarter is for those people who do not, do not have the funds to do it unless it is funded and are only gonna move forward if they have enough people to fund it. Like you absolutely need the money to fund it.
If you are already have your savings or you have a job that's su supplementing this and you're like, I'm gonna do this either way, why not do your own pre-launch on your website? It's possible you did it through Shopify, correct?
Samantha Ong: Your website's on Shopify? No. I did it. I have WooCommerce. Oh, you have
Azhelle Wade: WooCommerce.
Samantha Ong: Oh, okay, great. Yeah, I did it through WooCommerce because at the time, like of course Shopify, you had to pay like monthly, and when I first was starting out, the website, I, in the past I've had. Good experiences with like building my own website. Yeah. So I was familiar with building it and I just, I did it on my own.
Like I already have my photography website, so I just did it on the same host so I didn't have to for it. Gotcha. And I designed the whole thing myself, so I didn't have to pay these monthly fees and like WooCommerce is free, so I just did it that way just so I could. Put out some products out there. And then when I did the pre-order, I just purchased a pre-order plugin so I didn't have to play like monthly.
Oh, oh. WooCommerce is free. WooCommerce is free, yeah. Itself, but there's like plugins and all this stuff that you can add to. I did not know that. Yeah. But there are free plugins. You just have to, yeah. Um, so that was why I set it up that way. Mm-hmm. Um, and it works for me because I, I'm pretty familiar with WordPress, like I've been using it for.
Well, since I was a teenager.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I, I love your website. It's one of my favorites. Um, no, it's beautiful. Very clean, easy to navigate. Love it. Okay. So let's, let's move on. I'm sorry we've been so, so long on this, but I quite enjoyed it. Now I would love to talk about some of your areas of struggle. Um, do you remember your, have you had, it's early in your journey, um, have you had a big failure in this separate from the factory conversation?
'cause we've already dove into that. Have you had a big failure moment in all
of
Samantha Ong: this? Um, I, I think when I think back, like the big failure moment was the, Factory, but also even though my, um, like I've got the pre-orders out and then now we're like in production, I thought like, oh, this is gonna be easy.
They're all in production. But still, like, I'm doing a lot of like questions like, oh, we can't do this and that. And then just like, oh, like. I feel like it's, it's constant struggle. Like it is, it's, there's no, like, okay, we're done with this, and then it's gonna be easy from now. And so that's where I like, I think from an like the expectation point of view, like I didn't know, like what I was like really getting into and like having the constant like energy.
Like perseverance, I would say to like, just keep going. Like no matter what hits at you. Because sometimes I'm like, oh gosh, like there's just so much to overcome and it just feels like, like speed bump after speed bump. And that's when I'm like, oh, am I, am I the right person to do this? And am like, this just seems like.
When there's just like so many like little things that coming at you, it just feels like one giant hill. Mm-hmm. And then that's when I'm just like, oh, I don't know if I should be doing this. And all of this, even though the, the pre-orders was, um, a success.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And I, we should state that. How was, how successful was your pre-order?
Samantha Ong: Yeah, so I didn't know how it was gonna be because actually like the emails actually didn't end up going out
Azhelle Wade: very well because I know, I'm sorry. I will never recommend mailer light again. Ever. No,
Samantha Ong: I think it was good at the beginning, like I think it was building it and it wasn't, um, too expensive. So at the time it was good.
But when I got to like a certain amount of. Same thing
Azhelle Wade: happened to me. Same thing happened to me,
Samantha Ong: yes. But like deliverability wasn't good. Yeah. And I wish I had a note that before launch, so I could have moved them before launch. Right. But I was building my email list and then all of a sudden it was like launch day and then I emailed everyone and then nobody got my emails.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, did you get that? That thing that it blocks once you have a certain number it wants you to approve, like reconfirm yourself. That's what happened
Samantha Ong: to me. No, it wasn't really. No, it wasn't even that. It was, it said it went out. But yeah. I also posted on Instagram like, check your emails for your discount code.
But people were DMing me and saying that they weren't getting e any emails from me. Gosh. Oh my gosh. I can't even, they weren't even in
Azhelle Wade: their spam box mailer. Like, get it together 'cause we are no longer supporting this. No, it, it was good in, in the beginning of my journey as well. Really cheap, like $10 a month.
Yeah. Once I think I got over like. 2000 subscribers, things
Samantha Ong: started to get a little weird, right? Yeah. And so when I finally launched, I was at 5,000 and right. So like deliverability was just not good. Hmm. And I was basically having to. Ask people on Instagram, like, I don't even know how many people weren't on Instagram that were an email subscriber, right?
Telling everyone Instagram, if you didn't receive a, a launch discount code, you like, send me your email so I can personally send it to you. So all of that was like kind of a nightmare. Um, but I, in the end, in 24 hours of a launch and when I finally did launch, I sold $2,200. So that was um, wow. I didn't expect that because of all the issues.
Azhelle Wade: Like you're like, how are we gonna ship all these? Like, I'm gonna be in my garage for three years.
Samantha Ong: And also I think there's a statistic that they say that only 1% of your email list is going to buy. Yes. So,
Azhelle Wade: and what? And what, and for you, that's how many people is within that $2,200?
Samantha Ong: I think we got about a thousand orders. Yeah. Okay.
Azhelle Wade: Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. I mean, yeah. That's incredible. So how do you overcome, going back to our previous question, how do you overcome that?
Um, struggle with, am I the right person
Samantha Ong: to do this? I. Yeah, that really was a struggle. Like even to this day, even when I was like, I was talking to you about it when I was at Astra, I still felt like this whole like, um, you know, imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. Um, but as I was posting it and like I'm getting so much feedback from people, I just had to keep reminding me of my why mm-hmm.
And why I was doing it, and. What the feedback that I was getting, like so many people reached out to me and said they were in tears when they, when they saw the dolls. Oh. And I think if they were having like such an emotional reaction just to seeing the photos, I just can't imagine what reaction they'll have holding it when they get to see in person.
Yeah. Also, when their children get to experience it.
Azhelle Wade: We've gotta find some, like, there's gotta be some trade shows for like Asian culture specifically that we need to get you to
Samantha Ong: Yeah, there are, there actually there was one in, um, New York City. There was a Filipino festival right in New York City. What, I don't know if you heard of it, but it was like crazy busy and I didn't know about it in advance, but I kind of knew it like a week before.
That's when I found out about it. But it was. There was so many people there. I think I would love to be part of that. Something like that next year. Yes. Yeah. Um, but there's a lot, like during the summer, so there's even, I think one in Colorado, there's I think the Vietnamese one. Let's build out that list.
Azhelle Wade: Let's build out that plan list. Okay. Build out your, your continued launch list. Okay.
Samantha Ong: And that's the thing, I think people see them in person. It's just gonna have such a bigger impact. It is.
Azhelle Wade: So, mm-hmm. What, um, would you say you're most proud of that you've done so far with Joey Dolls?
Samantha Ong: I think even just getting to this point and like, you know, At this point we've, you know, been featured on three national tv, uh, or broadcasts, like media broadcasts in Canada.
We was also featured on buzzfeed, and then we was also featured on like toying side and toy book. Those are things that I never imagined that would happen. And because I was like steadfast in a, like a mission and what we were about and making sure the products would be, it would stand out. And I know even at the beginning, like.
I was so doubtful and, you know, people would say, oh, I don't know about this. And, um, you know, putting doubts in my mind whether I, I was the right person to do this or if I should do this uhhuh. And so I think even just getting to this point like this, me persevering through all the struggles, I am pretty proud to, to finally be where I am at.
I love it.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Okay. I don't, we don't have any comments in the chat. I was just checking to make sure, but I'll bring your stuff back up. Okay. Also, I just, I don't know. I'm wondering, did, did the portions of t C A help you to get any of those, uh, media placements or did you do those on your own in a different way?
Samantha Ong: Uh, a little bit. So, I think when I wasn't unsure about like when I should be reaching out to them and stuff like that, because we were like so in pre-order and I wasn't sure if like my, oh yes, I remember this.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, you were the best student. You asked so many questions. It was so great. I asked a lot of
Samantha Ong: questions.
No, it was great though. So I, of course I go through the material and then I'm like, okay, but what about like this apply for my scenario. That I had for myself. So yes, they were super helpful and I think they really pushed me to do it more, like, have more confidence in doing it, because I was like, oh, I might have to wait until I'm like, closer to date or like I have, oh yeah.
And I was like, no.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. I was like, no, send it right now. Like, what are you gonna do? Wait till next year? No, I was
Samantha Ong: like it. Yeah. So was it. And then I just started building out like. A list of journalists, a list of people to reach out to, um, and sort of following them on Instagram and like all this stuff like making, making sure that I had like a plan.
And then also like the marketing plan that you had in T c A and then like, You know, knowing when things were happening so I could be prepared for them in advance was really helpful. Yeah, I think reaching out to retailers was like super helpful. 'cause now I, we've gone, uh, this kids, seven retailers. What?
Um, at the, at the, yeah. And so I think like, The module on the specialty retailers was really helpful. Oh, awesome. Like what to do.
Azhelle Wade: I love hearing that. Yeah. I have so many things to add to it, but I love that. I'm glad it's helpful as it's
Samantha Ong: Yes.
Azhelle Wade: Yes. What do you hope to achieve one year from now?
Samantha Ong: Yeah, so I really hope that we can, like I, I see this in like the black community, that when you, there's black products out there that it's really.
Really celebrated and there's so much excitement about it and we, I, I just don't think we have seen it really so much in the Asian community. I think you touched on these, mentioned something like this in the, at the beginning of this podcast, and I really hope that this is like the start of like really celebrating our culture.
And I hope that we can get it into like more mainstream so that more people have access and can see it. And so I walk into say, your target. Uh, you do see like, Black dolls and you see the, you know, dolls, but you don't really see like cultural Asian dolls. And that's where I hope that we can sort of push and change that more.
Um, so I feel like it's still gonna be our journey and um, but that's what I really hope to. To push forward, forward. I'm so, so excited for
Azhelle Wade: you. Okay. Uh, my closing questions. The first one is, what piece of advice would you like to give to the listeners here today who maybe are interested in launching a product like you did?
I.
Samantha Ong: Right. I'd say believe in yourself and your idea and like really solidify your idea. Like spend the time to listen the idea and then before like reaching out to, to factories and then when you reach out to factories, like do your research. I think I just like really jumped into it. Um, I didn't know what I was doing.
And so actually that module about looking for your factories was super because like those questions that you. I was like, oh dear, I didn't do this part. Like, I didn't ask any
Azhelle Wade: questions. I was like, can you make this?
Samantha Ong: Yeah. Like, can you do this? This was like my question. Yeah. Um, but those questions are so helpful.
I, I send them out every time. Now I, when I was doing the, the second reach out of looking for a new factory and. And also getting like the n and n agreement and stuff like that beforehand, like making sure everything was set before that. Like, so that was super helpful. So I think having that knowledge and give gave me confidence into, into going into it.
Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so great. I just realized we need to add something to your dolls, like a little, we need to add like a little Joey Dolls tag on the inside or something.
Samantha Ong: For your future? Oh, like a, yeah. I'm gonna have a hang tag or do you think like a care thing? What do you mean?
Azhelle Wade: This is more for branding.
We'll talk about it. Okay. We'll talk about it. Okay. We'll talk about it. And then my, my last, uh, big question for you is what toy or game blew your
Samantha Ong: mind as a kid? Yeah. So I know you asked me this, uh, question as well before. Oh, I did. Um, yeah. And it. It was for the upcoming for Astro when we were preparing for that.
And I said Polly Pocket. 'cause that's what I remember the most, because I could take along, I, I really loved role playing as a kid too, and I, I remember Polly Pocket the most and I just loved that I could take her wherever I could. Yeah. But I wanted to also give you something also. So now that we see, you know, the Bobby movie coming out and all of that and all the Bobby Dream house that.
Mago Robbie has, and I was just like, oh my gosh, that was my dream house. Yes, as a kid they made it like real life. Oh my gosh, how can I step? And it reminded me how much I really enjoyed playing with my dolls and. Even, I don't know if you know, um, actually I think in Australia it's called Sylvania, but here it's called Kco Critters.
Oh,
Azhelle Wade: Calico Critters, yeah. Oh, is it kco?
Samantha Ong: Yeah. Oh yeah, KCO. Okay. Kco. Yeah, because in Australia, I think it's called, or maybe before it was called Senior Families. Oh. And so that's what I knew as, and so I remember playing with that as well. I just really loved role playing, um, so much. Yeah. Did you, when you grew up,
Azhelle Wade: did you like the sims?
Oh my gosh,
Samantha Ong: yes.
Azhelle Wade: Okay. Yeah, we do. We're the same. We're the same. Yes, we're the same. Love that. Mm-hmm. So where can people listening find more about you, about Joey Dolls? Order? Joey Dolls. Whether it is for wholesale or retail,
Samantha Ong: the floor is yours. Yeah, so you can find us@www.joeydolls.com and on Instagram, uh, it's just Joey Dolls and Facebook as well.
Just, uh, Joey Dolls. Love
Azhelle Wade: that. Yeah. Samantha, thank you so much for being here with me today. It was a pleasure and I can't wait to see your dolls just in every store, just getting reorders, and I hope this becomes big
Samantha Ong: business for you. Thank you. Thank you so much for all your help and support. Yes, yes.
Thanks for those
Azhelle Wade: watching. Take care.
Samantha Ong: Thanks for listening to Making It in The Toy Industry Podcast with Wade. Head over to the toy coach.com for more information, tips, and advice.
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