Episode #140: Finding Your Toy People With Jeff Lawber & Alan Henry
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Being a toy industry entrepreneur or toy inventor doesn’t have to be a solo project. Working with a partner can help you to think outside of the box. In a mentor/mentee context, both parties can learn a lot from each other. Today’s guests met in a Facebook group and even though they haven’t met in person yet, they have created quite the toy industry “bromance.”
Jeff Lawber is an industrial designer, inventor, and entrepreneur. He is the founder and creator of Marmals, a line of beautifully designed modular and sensory magnetic toys. Alan Henry is a 2021 product design graduate and a freelance toy designer. He is also a volunteer toy designer at Marmals. The two started collaborating and developed an organic mentorship that benefited both of them.
In today’s episode you’ll learn how social media can lead to real friendships and mentorships. You’ll also find out why you might want to hire a fresh face or two if you’ve been in the toy industry for a while, and why you should stick to your toy industry dreams and toy ideas even when things get hard.
EPISODE CLIFF NOTES
Learn exactly how Jeff and Alan made a lasting connection on social media. [00:02:33]
Find out how Jeff knew Alan would be a great fit to help out with Marmals. [00:05:10]
Learn one way a mentor can benefit in a mentorship relationship. [00:08:05]
Learn how Jeff went from industrial designer to toy entrepreneur. [00:13:01]
Find out the original first name of Marmals that didn’t stick. [00:14:28]
Learn how even someone with little experience can bring new energy to the table. [00:15:33]
Find out the unique retail space where Marmals has found a lot of success. [00:21:52]
Find out how Jeff manages costs as an entrepreneur. [00:24:26]
Learn essential toy industry advice from both Jeff and Alan. [00:26:35]
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Visit Marmals’ website by clicking here.
Follow Marmals on Instagram.
Follow Marmals on Facebook.
Find what toy blew Jeff’s mind as a child by clicking here.
Find what toy blew Alan’s mind as a child by clicking here.
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 140.
[00:00:06] Alan Henry: So what if a minimal is a Marmal that's say trying to hide in its environment. So it's trying to mimic something, but it doesn't get it quite right. So the new or the minimal that we're gonna show off here is a little TV.
[00:00:21] Azhelle Wade: Oh, wow. Oh, that's so cool.
[00:00:25] Alan Henry: Little box of TV.
[00:00:26] Azhelle Wade: That is very cool.
[00:00:28] Alan Henry: But what he doesn't quite get is that his feet are remote controls, but the buttons are the souls. So the idea is when he walks around, he's constantly changing channels and he doesn't get the disguise sort of thing just yet.
[00:00:40] Azhelle Wade: Hey there toy people, Azhelle Wade here. And welcome back to another episode of the toy coach podcast, making it in the toy industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today on the podcast, I've got two longtime listeners of the podcast and members of the Facebook community that I often talk about on this podcast, Alan Henry and Jeff Lawber. Welcome to the show, Alan and Jeff. I am going to give a quick intro to both of you and then I'll explain why I decided to have you on the show.
[00:01:25] But let's start with Alan. Alan you are a 2021 product design, graduate and freelance toy designer, as well as a volunteer toy designer at Marmals. Due to his inability to sit down for more than five minutes, Alan's constantly working on something. Whether it's sketching up a new idea, the 3d modeling concepts or color testing prototypes, Alan is always on the go. Young, eager and full of coffee. He's always teaching himself something new and pushing boundaries. Welcome to the show, Alan.
[00:01:56] And Jeff Lawber who you may have heard mentioned on this podcast before, because I really love his product Marmals. Jeff is an industrial designer, an inventor, and an entrepreneur building his own toy empire along with the help of Alan Henry. And I wanted to have Jeff and a on the show because they have really built what I call a toy bro. Through meeting in the Facebook community. And I just hear about all the things they're working on and doing a little bit in the community, but I wanted to get more of a full story and share it with everybody listening to the podcast. So welcome you guys. Thank you for coming today.
[00:02:30] Jeff Lawber: Yeah, thanks for having us.
[00:02:32] Alan Henry: Thank you.
[00:02:33] Azhelle Wade: So to start, how did you first meet?
[00:02:36] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. We just started I think Alan commented on one of my posts on the Facebook group. And yeah, we just sort of kept a dialogue going and then Alan reached out one day and asked if I needed any help with Marmals. And I was like, yes, please, absolutely.
[00:02:52] Azhelle Wade: I wanna say, I wanna like focus on that a little bit, because I, I feel like sometimes people don't know what to say in those Facebook groups or they just don't think there's really a possibility of forming some sort of like relationship or mentorship. So what was it like that triggered a conversation? Do you remember?
[00:03:09] Jeff Lawber: You know, I should have looked this up. I don't remember what it was, but Alan, do you remember?
[00:03:13] Alan Henry: Yeah. It was the post where you had the, the original Marmal on the magazine cover. And I remember you posting that on the group chat a thanking Azhelle and just seeing it on there. I was like, Ooh, what's this? So I did a deep dive onto it. I just found like all of these like news reports and things of like you know, if apple created a toy, this would be it the Marmals. And the more I looked into it, the more I was like, this is really cool. This is something that I would've wanted when I was a kid, cuz I was constantly doodling on my toys and getting showered at, by my parents. So I. I was in my final year of uni and I was thinking, okay, so on my final year of uni I wanna do something extra. I wanna do something more. I wanna do some voluntary work. So I just reached out to Jeff asking if you needed a hand.
[00:04:03] Azhelle Wade: And what was like your goal, like, do you want to, like, would your dream be to work for Marmals full time? Or what do you wanna do with this experience you're doing from you're you're getting from Marmals?
[00:04:13] Alan Henry: Yeah. Obviously like full time job at Marmals would be like the dream. But also at the same time, I'm like focusing on like different projects inside and outside of mammals, just trying to try new things as much as possible new skills. Yeah. And just trying to get enough, undermined, rattle as much as possible. So I'm not really thinking too much long term. I'm just focusing on myself as a designer, but at the same time, mammals is like for me, a long term thing that I'm enjoying through and through.
[00:04:43] Azhelle Wade: So one of the things I would love to touch on is, I know when you're an entrepreneur, Jeff, like you're the cost of like, starting something like this is so high and luckily for you, you've been placed in a lot of stores and you're making some you're some sales mm-hmm , but I know the cost is always so high and people would love to have help from someone that is just in love with their product so much that they either will volunteer temporarily or like, or have a really low fee to get started. I guess like my question here is just, how did, like what made you feel comfortable to let Alan come into your world? Even without that clear, defined relationship of like employee or employee?
[00:05:23] Jeff Lawber: That's a great question. So I sort of let down my guard when Alan came around, because he, he understood Marmals, he understood what it was and where it was going. And I think there's, there's a little bit of I think this is on me, but my marketing campaign isn't very strong yet. Mm-hmm so people don't quite understand what the product is and how it works, but Alan, he just got it. Right. And it was, it was an immediate thing. And that was like, oh man, this is, this is pretty cool that, you know, there's another designer out there that understands my thought press process and where, where I want to go with this.
[00:05:57] And so you know, I, we did a couple of just sort of brainstorming sessions together and, and that was, that was a while ago. And we've met pretty much every week for what, three hours at a time, four hours at a time. And yeah, it's been spectacular. And a lot of that four hours is, is dedicated to transformers and op that have nothing to do with, with Marmals whatsoever. But there's no golden nuggets in there that we, we try to find and, and talk about and sort of extrapolate and build from there.
[00:06:28] Azhelle Wade: So you guys just really just made a friendship from across the world. Yep. That's so cool. Yeah. So, okay. We actually, Jeff, I'm realizing now we should probably explain to let you explain what Marmals is because all of us know what it is and now I'm realizing some people listening might not.
[00:06:43] Jeff Lawber: Well, I happen to have one right here. No figure love them. So this is my Marmal mm-hmm so it's a modular DIY magnetic toy. So it comes like this and you can pull the arms and legs off and you can sort of rearrange the parts.
[00:06:59] Azhelle Wade: And since we're on the podcast, I would love for you to just like pull it apart and let's get some of the audio of how it.
[00:07:05] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.
[00:07:11] Azhelle Wade: Right. So that's how the legs so all, so the Marmal essentially looks like a marshmallow come to life. Yep. He looks like a marshmallow sprouted legs and arms. He's all white, he's vinyl, right? Patent ti. Magnetic connection system that keeps the arms and legs and head on. You can pop them on and off and you get this nice sound. Yep. Love that. Yeah. And then the cool thing about Marmals is I think the painting aspect, how you can like use your markers color on them and then wash it away. Mm-hmm and what did you call it?
[00:07:41] Jeff Lawber: I call it fidget toy, but it's also it's like a sensory toy, a sensory for some people. Yeah, I sort of like that click and I'll sit there in front of my computer and just kind of do this. Yeah. Helps me sort think for some reason. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's a fidget toy through and through as well as an art toy and a designer toy.
[00:07:58] Azhelle Wade: So what are some things that you've learned since working with Alan? I have a group where we get together and we call it kind of like a mastermind mm-hmm . So it's almost like you guys have formed this like mastermind relationship where you kind of help each other out equally. What's something that you've taken away or the biggest thing you've taken away?
[00:08:13] Jeff Lawber: What I appreciate from, from Alan is, is sort of the accountability aspect of things. So I'll come at 'em with like all these random ideas and some of 'em are great. Some of 'em total garbage. And then Alan will sort of he'll tell me very straightforward. Like if that's a good idea or a bad idea and the good ideas will we'll build upon and develop. Even this last week on Sunday, Alan and I sat down and, and we have a, a new product somewhat normal related. And we sat there for probably good two hours, just hashing out all the details of how this is gonna work. And it was an amazing brainstorming session. And I thank him through and through that, he actually like stuck with me for this long and I didn't scare 'em off because yeah, some of my ideas are, are pretty wild. His accountability and, and just patience has been so great. Yeah. With his weight and gold.
[00:09:06] Azhelle Wade: Alan, why did you stay with him for so long?
[00:09:08] Alan Henry: So obviously I graduated last year. Yeah. So I'm new to the whole not only just product design aspect, but the whole toy design aspect. Mm. And to have someone who is essentially like a mentor to me at this point. Someone that I can rely on and go to and ask about his experience in the industry, or how would I combat something this way from his perspective or from his experience, it's great to have that connection. And as Jeff said, reliability, I can rely on him for those sorts of things. And yeah, even though he throw like crazy ideas at me, I find that great and refreshing that it's not just a safe A to B sort of thing. It's just, what if we go from A and jump to X, not the Z, but the X.
[00:09:59] Jeff Lawber: Yes.
[00:09:59] Alan Henry: And it's. He'll have some sort of a plan, but then he'll come to me and rely on me on certain aspects and not just hand hold me or anything like that. And I just really respect that the boundaries, as well as the freedom he gives me with essentially his product and his IP. And it's just super rewarding.
[00:10:17] Azhelle Wade: That is awesome. And you must be building like a pretty nice portfolio for doing all this stuff, right?
[00:10:23] Alan Henry: That and all the other side projects.
[00:10:24] Azhelle Wade: Yeah are you guys working on like projects as creators together?
[00:10:28] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. We announced what a couple months ago now that there's a new line of Marmals coming out. It's a spinoff called Minimals.
[00:10:35] Azhelle Wade: Oh, I didn't see that Minimals.
[00:10:37] Jeff Lawber: Yeah, Minimals. And it's actually the brainchild of Alan who came at me with this, this random idea one day. And I was like, oh my gosh. That is amazing. And we've been our weekly sessions really revolve around this, this new product called minimals, which I think Alan's got a prototype. Yeah, we can show off cuz it has already been disclosed, so. Okay Alan.
[00:10:57] Alan Henry: Yeah, I got two. So this is the first concept of Minimals. When Jeff show sent off a a supply box of all these fun Marmals parts. So I dissected a Marmal ah, and took the head and just gave it legs.
[00:11:12] Azhelle Wade: That's really cute. Yeah.
[00:11:14] Alan Henry: Yeah. I showed Jeff and he absolutely loved it. So we ran with it. And we came with the idea of, okay, so what's the concept or the idea behind minimals. And it's like, okay. So what if a minimal is a Marmal that's say trying to hide in its environment. So it's trying to mimic something, but it doesn't get it quite right. So the new or the minimal that we're gonna show off here is a little TV.
[00:11:42] Azhelle Wade: Oh, wow. Oh, that's so cool.
[00:11:45] Alan Henry: Little box of TV.
[00:11:47] Azhelle Wade: That is very cool.
[00:11:49] Alan Henry: But what he doesn't quite get is that his feet are remote controls, but the buttons are the souls. So the idea is when he walks around, he's constantly changing channels and he doesn't get the disguise sort of thing just yet.
[00:12:01] Azhelle Wade: Are you guys making like a show? This feels like a show to me.
[00:12:04] Jeff Lawber: There is definitely something going on behind the scenes about some, some media, so, mm. Stay tuned. Okay. But yeah, and the minimals is completely interchangeable with the Marmals. So the minimal head will have a plate that reverses and you can pop it on a Marmals. And the feet pop off. So the feet are held by magnets as well. Mm-hmm and so the feet are interchangeable with the Marmals. So it's a whole completely interchangeable ecosystem that we're working on.
[00:12:31] So minimals will probably we're shooting for a late summer or early fall debut via it'll probably run through Kickstarter first. And then, yeah, we'll probably launch with three or four different minimals. And then see where it goes. But we are having an absolute blast. We've got a running list of I don't know, maybe a hundred different minimals to prototype. Yeah. And we have been just sort of, we've sort of narrowed it down to maybe at least six that we want debut with.
[00:13:01] Azhelle Wade: So I feel like we might need to do a little toy story background on you, Jeff. How did you get started in the toy industry?
[00:13:10] Jeff Lawber: Ultimately it was my kids.
[00:13:12] Azhelle Wade: What do you mean?
[00:13:12] Jeff Lawber: So my background is in industrial design, so I've spent the last 20 years designing products for, for Nike, for Adidas, for other clients. I've worked on everything from chainsaws to ceiling fans to slot machines, to furniture, to retail experiences at the Olympic games. And I've just, I've been all over the place, but I've always loved toys. I have this like this collection of toys that I just play around with, cuz they're fun. And so when my kids came around I wanted to design something for them. I took all my skills and sort of put 'em to use for them and started off designing this, this wooden toy, you know, cuz I, all the toys that we had at the time really had batteries and they were electronics.
[00:13:55] And I was like, I don't, I don't want to do this. So I set off designing this wooden toy, using a bunch of components I had left over from a couple Nike projects that I had been working on. And so I sort of put everything together and I was like, this is really cool. And then when I went to do my engineering work. I 3d printed the first prototype and I had white filament in the printer, ended up looking like a marshmallow, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna run with this. So, it was a lot of like just happy accidents and, and things that just sort of like fell together or fell in place.
[00:14:28] Azhelle Wade: What was the first name of Marmals that you wanted and you couldn't do?
[00:14:32] Jeff Lawber: Marshii.
[00:14:33] Azhelle Wade: Oh, Marshii.
[00:14:34] Jeff Lawber: Marshii, M A R S H I I.
[00:14:37] Azhelle Wade: Oh, I like Marmals, is better.
[00:14:39] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah. So it's funny because DJ Marshmallow filed a trademark to build an action figure a week before I filed for Marshii. So his name was Marcin, which was one letter off. And my attorney's like, no, no, no. Don't do that. You're gonna fight cost. And you're you're, you're not gonna win. So he's like you have to change the name. So I sat on it for about five days and then came up with Marmals, which is short for marshmallow.
[00:15:09] Azhelle Wade: Love it. I love it.
[00:15:10] Jeff Lawber: I love the name way better than, than Marshii.
[00:15:12] Azhelle Wade: So yeah. Marshii feels forgettable. Marmals is strong. Okay. So story of struggle, I would love to hear from your end Jeff. What was your biggest struggle in starting this whole Marmals venture?
[00:15:28] Jeff Lawber: Not knowing what I was doing.
[00:15:30] Azhelle Wade: What, but you had a whole career in industrial design. How did you not know that?
[00:15:34] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. And that was designing products for other people. Okay, you know, I would do the design work. I'd do the engineering work and then I'd pass it off to the factory. And, and that was that.
[00:15:42] Oh, you never see it again?
[00:15:43] Well just two weeks ago I had a Nike project that was announced that I worked on back in 2018. Wow. And so, I mean, it's, you know, years in the making, I remember doing some work for a, a toy company down in Los Angeles and I did the work one summer and I remember getting their catalog. It was on Halloween day in their catalog debuted. And my product was on the cover like three years later, what I was like, what, like, I don't know. I have no idea how this works, but.
[00:16:11] Azhelle Wade: I mean, well, typically it is a year timeline, but I'm feeling like you're probably doing much more complex projects for people.
[00:16:18] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. Yeah, I, I guess so, but it was funny because I could totally forgot about the project. And I was like, you know, a lot of my stuff is, is just, you know, concepts and I, I throw it out there and if it sticks, it sticks and they move it into production. But this one took a good three years to move into production. And then it was on their like best seller list and their fall, the cover, their fall catalog is. Okay. That's super cool.
[00:16:41] Azhelle Wade: That's amazing. So your biggest struggle, not knowing what you were doing in what area?
[00:16:47] Jeff Lawber: Just like, you know, I can design all day every day with, I know my way around 3d modeling and, and all that good stuff. But just as far as like that next step, you know, what does it take to, to launch a product? What does it take to, to market the product? What does it take to you know, bring that product to life? And that was very new to me. Yeah. And so you know, when I ultimately started with Kickstarter I failed. Right out the gate. Mm-hmm you know, I read up, I did all my homework and then when I launched it was just a, the ship sank real fast.
[00:17:19] Azhelle Wade: Do you have an email list now? Like a marketing email list?
[00:17:23] Jeff Lawber: I do now. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But then I recode and launched on, on Indiegogo a few months later and I was successful because I, I understood, you know, better the second time. What to do, what not to do, so, okay.
[00:17:37] Azhelle Wade: Are you guys on like TikTok?
[00:17:39] Jeff Lawber: No tikTok yet.
[00:17:40] Azhelle Wade: No TikTok. It just seems like it's a TikTok toy thing.
[00:17:42] Jeff Lawber: When Marmals resurfaces here in a few months, there'll be a much much bigger push for social media including TikTok more Instagram.
[00:17:50] Azhelle Wade: Are you doing it?
[00:17:51] Jeff Lawber: I won't, no, I'm gonna have to outsource that. I've been in, in talks with some stop animation folks.
[00:17:56] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. That's gonna look amazing for you guys. Yeah. So, Alan, what would you say is, has been your biggest struggle in your toy journey, either working with Marmals or just on your own toy journey?
[00:18:08] Alan Henry: I would have to go for trying to figure out the next sort of step both inside and outside of Marmals. Cuz like, again, like Jeff's let me come on in and take so much control and I am so inexperience with a lot of things. And it's like, okay, how far can I push something before it's like no longer feasible to push or can't be pushed any further or anything like that. But you know, luckily Jeff's there to be like, you know, to guide me and things like that.
[00:18:37] Azhelle Wade: Can we give an example if it's not proprietary, it's not a secret?
[00:18:41] Alan Henry: I guess if it will like with minimals, like how far can we push minimals? And it's like, okay, so is it gonna come with something else? If yes. What's it gonna come with? Cuz not only does it have to add onto the play experience. It can't be crazy expensive. Cuz if that say it's a craft material, okay. If it's crazy expensive and people look at this smaller version of a vinyl toy, they're immediately going to assume, okay, so I'm paying this extra money for this tiny figure and not really think about that craft piece that's coming with. Cause that's more for the accessory, right. So we can like spit out crazy ideas. And Jeff's like, these are great.
[00:19:21] Very expensive and I'm just like, ah, yeah, let's tone it down a little bit. Okay. Gotcha. So, yeah, that's, that's sort of like a, a hurdle that I'm still combating at the moment. Cuz when it comes to like price or manufacturer, that was something that I only needed to focus on for the final year of my study. And then it was just kind of like, Hey, you're qualified off you go. So for a lot of those things I still overlook it or. I don't have a lot of experience in it. And again, cuz Jeff has been an industrial designer for years and years. He's on that page so I can always rely on him for that regard.
[00:19:57] Azhelle Wade: The beautiful thing about working with someone like you, Alan, who isn't totally paying attention to cost of manufacturing is that you do come up with innovative idea, then when Jeff wants to tone it down, it's still innovative. It's just, he figures out a smarter way to do that innovation where I found like the longer I worked full time in the toy industry, I would so quickly go to the easiest and cheapest way to do something that you just skip over innovation. You're just like, oh, this will be the easiest cheapest way to do it. So that's the way we gotta do it, obviously.
[00:20:29] Alan Henry: It's funny you say that. Yeah. Cause the first year of college for me our two gave us, we had a series of one week projects and he'll just throw a small, brief, not too detailed. And we just ran with it without like just, just imaginations. And we just come up with concept sketches and they were some of the most bizarre thing. It'll be like a new form of transport or a futuristic phone. And we will come up with like the most bizarre concepts. And then the second. After we've had our tutorials on manufacturing processes.
[00:21:00] We were so anchored down and worried about how this thing was gonna be made. Our designs were so simplistic and too safe and not initiative. Yeah, mm-hmm . And then we spent the rest of the year during the rest of the year, helping us find that balance which I think is gonna be like a lifelong thing for us designers of like, The balancing the creativity with the possibles and the pricings and things like that. Yeah, it was funny that you mentioned that.
[00:21:28] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And it's, it's actually a, a big struggle. The further you get in your career, you actually have to start bringing in younger people who are less experienced so that they can keep pushing the innovation envelope because you start to get jaded. Mm-hmm no matter how hard you try some part of you is like so focused on solution and simplicity and you can't help. I mean, you wouldn't be learning if you, if you didn't. Okay. I would love to get into some success stories. Jeff, what's been going on with Marmals. Last, I talked to you, you were in like 30 stores?
[00:22:01] Jeff Lawber: Great, last count was 55. What? Well, yeah, that's, that's, that's great. So my initial run, I am completely wiped out.
[00:22:10] Azhelle Wade: Can I ask how much your initial run was?
[00:22:12] Jeff Lawber: Two thousand units. Yeah, so I, I was really testing the waters cuz this was a product that I have, you know, I was launching on my own. I didn't have much direction or I didn't even know if this was gonna make it was that during year. After exactly one year. Holy cow. Yeah. Wow. And so now the, the next shipment is being produced a lot more Marmal and I'll have the original one and then I'll have the two new characters. As soon as I get a timeline, as far as, when the shipment, you know, might arrive then I'll be blasting out some marketing. Teaser at least to get things started, get things rolling. Yeah.
[00:22:48] Azhelle Wade: So with your 55 stores, is that all US?
[00:22:51] Jeff Lawber: That's only US. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I'd say about a third of those. Maybe half of those are are toy stores and then the rest are museums in art stores. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. The museum. Museum stores have taken to this thing, like crazy. And I actually have so many standing orders for art, art museums, when the new Marmals arrive, cuz they are just they're anxious to get their hands on 'em so.
[00:23:15] Azhelle Wade: Can you share how you started those relationships with the museums?
[00:23:19] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. So it was actually through Astra. Oh, how things got started. Right. And then that led to somehow there was one museum in Idaho in Boise, Idaho, that that was ordering Marmals like clockwork, like every single month, just like on the dot it's like, okay. So there's something here and I don't know what it is yet. Mm-hmm because that was not my initial target market. Mm-hmm. And so then I branched out and I joined the the museums museum store association, MSA mm-hmm . And I sort of I started reaching out to art stores and being like, Hey, this art or sorry, this museum is buying marbles. What do you think?
[00:23:58] And then they would place an initial order, just a few Marmal to, to test and they're like, yes, we want more. Can you send us more? wow. And, and so it sort of, and then it just sort of exploded from there. And it's, it's been great. So you know, art stores are working so next, I'm gonna try science centers and discovery centers and, and children's museums and, and sort of just keep pushing that envelope to see where, where this is gonna fit and, and you know, what markets I can tap into.
[00:24:26] Azhelle Wade: I would love to talk a little bit about how you manage the cost of being an entrepreneur, because what I've like in the past couple years, when, when online started get so popular, it became more affordable for people to launch their own products. Cuz you could have your own online store. Right. But now it seems like there's so many services and because now you need to do social media, you gotta like hire somebody for that and you still need something like Alan on your side, like how do you, you know, you can't pay for that. Do you have a certain number of marbles that you need to sell where, you know okay. I can invest in marketing. If I hit that number, I can invest in a product designer. If I hit that number, like how are you balancing all that and deciding whether or not it's working or whether or not it's just, you know, getting you in the financial hole?
[00:25:11] Jeff Lawber: Right. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a big it's a big gamble right now. So with the first, the first 2000 units It was, I mean, it was totally like, I didn't know what I was doing. I would send out, you know, freebies to, to certain clients or certain influencers that I thought, you know, maybe this could, if I go this way, I can get some traction over here in this through this influencer. But that was really just blindly throwing stuff at the wall and, and seeing what stuck. So I would say as an entrepreneur, that first round of, of product was, was really , I mean, it made a little bit of profit in the end.
[00:25:47] But it wasn't nearly what I thought it was going to be. Mm-hmm so, but now I, I'm a little more fine tuned and I have a better direction. And, you know, I have the spreadsheets to, to sort of explain or show me what could happen sort of a best case and worst case scenario. Then I can sort of plug those numbers in. It's like, okay, so now I have this budget for marketing and this budget for further research and development and you know, maybe take some of that and, you know, spin off another line of products and sort of build a business that way.
[00:26:16] Azhelle Wade: Do you have any big goals for like grants or anything?
[00:26:20] Jeff Lawber: No, I've, I've explored grants. I've explored lots of different funding options. And I really haven't found anything that has stuck yet.
[00:26:29] Azhelle Wade: I'm gonna ask you guys closing questions so they can get on with your day. My first closing question is always, what is the best piece of advice you've received early on in your toy career?
[00:26:43] Jeff Lawber: My go to one is, is, is just stick with it. I mean, there is, it's a roller coaster. It really is. There are so many projects that I have started and then abandoned because it's like, oh, it's not going anywhere. It hasn't stuck yet. Mm-hmm but yeah, just, just stick, stick with it. Keep moving, keep moving forward. Even though it's you've got your ups and downs, you're still moving forward. So. That's really my, my best advice.
[00:27:06] Azhelle Wade: Was there ever a time you wanted to jump ship on Marmals?
[00:27:09] Jeff Lawber: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, really? Yeah. Many, many, many times.
[00:27:14] Azhelle Wade: And what kept you going?
[00:27:16] Jeff Lawber: Just, you know, it's, it's a little silly, but it's when when kids were playing with Marmals and you could see like the joy that they were having. And, or I delivered some, I donated some Marmals to the local children's hospital here and the the person in charge, there was just they were relaying, they were giving me feedback. Of all the, these kids that were playing with the Marmals at the hospital, I was like, oh my gosh, this is really something. And that just helps me keep moving forward. And, and now my, my kids have, you know, classmates and all these birthday parties and everyone's requesting a Marmal for their birthday, which is super easy because I just go grab one and like wrap it up and send it with my kids to the birthday party. Those little bits of like, this is something, you know, people like this.
[00:28:05] Azhelle Wade: People keep your comments coming. I feel like sometimes people don't realize how much a, this is great means to a creator, or I love this, or I like this even, or, oh, it was so cute. It means so much. So if you're playing with the Marmals right now, you're thinking you like it go just DM Jeff and let him know you love this Marmal okay. Because it, it really makes a difference. Makes a huge difference. It does. It does. And then I wanna ask you, Jeff, what toy blew your mind as a kid?
[00:28:39] Jeff Lawber: Yeah. Okay. So this is a fun one. So I remember I was at the Chicago Science Museum and there was this toy, it was in the gift shop. And it was the, it's a Hoberman switch pitch. I dunno if you're familiar with that. I dunno what that is. I'm good. But this little girl, I was standing there looking at these things and there was a girl next to me and she had one in her hands and she it's just this ball. It's a sphere Uhhuh. I see. And she just rolled it into her other hand and it completely changed color. And it's like, which just happened. Wow. It didn't change shape. It was just a ball. And then, and it's just a plastic ball. I see. And then there's no, no batteries, no anything. And then she rolled it back in her other hand and it changed color again. Whoa. So it went from orange to green, orange to green. And I was like, what in the world is happening here? And what it does is when you roll it, the whole thing expands out and it contracts really quickly into a different color.
[00:29:33] Azhelle Wade: That is amazing.
[00:29:35] Jeff Lawber: But it's like a, a three, $4 toy. And that just thing that blew my mind, it's like the engineering that goes into something like that. Yeah. And it's like, I, I want that. I want to learn how to do that. And, and that, I mean, honestly kickstarted my, my design career because I was just like in awe of this one toy and it's always on my desk.
[00:29:56] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so cool. I've never heard of this story before, but now I'm watching a slow Mo YouTube video of it.
[00:30:00] Jeff Lawber: Isn't it insane?
[00:30:01] Azhelle Wade: That is really cool. It's really. Wow.
[00:30:04] Jeff Lawber: Because like it's just evolved, but then when it expands, you see all like the inner workings to it and then it, it condenses back into a, a ball again.
[00:30:13] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. We'll add a link to this in the show notes. Ooh, thanks for sharing. Okay, Alan, we got the same questions for you. What is one piece of advice you have received that really changed your career?
[00:30:24] Alan Henry: Keep pushing forward. Again, going back to my college years. Yeah. I was doing a high heel project. It was, it was the first major project in the first year mm-hmm and it was six weeks long. And I had this really cool idea for like a steam punk high heel. It'll have a bolt for the heel, with a spring piston coming down mm-hmm and I got to solid edge, which was new to me. And I was like, I'm gonna have to model this. I tried for a couple of days and nothing and time was ticking by. So I went to my tutor and I was like, I'm, I'm not gonna get this done. I'm not gonna get this modeled. I got another idea for a more simplistic high heel, but I need to restart the whole project back to day one. And there's only two weeks left or a week and a half at that point. And instead of advising me not to, he said, if you think you can do it, you can. And I did it.
[00:31:15] Azhelle Wade: You did the new idea?
[00:31:16] Alan Henry: I did the new idea. It was like, instead of Stong it was like this over the top pastoral fairy, high heel with religious symmetry and yeah, I, I nailed it. And it was just that confidence that he had in me that I took on board and that's what I have in myself going forward. And that's what I want people to take on themselves going forward. Cause it's like in your Facebook group, there's a lot of people who are like, oh, I'm, you know middle-aged, I, I can't learn this blah, blah. It's like you can, you really can. The only limitation is yourself and you can get past that.
[00:31:53] Azhelle Wade: Ooh. Good. Thank you. And what toy blew your mind as a kid Alan?
[00:31:59] Alan Henry: I am going go and have to say 2004 Transformers, Armada, Tidal Wave. So I grew up in a low income household as a kid. Okay. Toys were kind of like birthday and Christmas and I was born in December. So it was, yeah.
[00:32:18] Azhelle Wade: There was the one toy a year for you.
[00:32:21] Alan Henry: Oh my gosh. And he's, he's quite a hefty, I got him on my shelf up there. He's quite a hefty transformer. And what blew my mind is not only does he have a robot mode and a vehicle mode Uhhuh, but his body splits into free individual pieces. Okay. That can become free separate vehicles. Again, only having a few toys a year. I played with that thing through and through because there was a play system called mini cons and he came with like a little jet Uhhuh and you were able to like peg him into ports and that would like unlock new features or hidden gimmicks. And it that's blew my mind. Yeah. Gets even better. I only found out 10 years after that there was another toy in the same toy line. That he could combine with Megatron to become like a jet pack and some power arm of fists. And that was 10 years later and it's like, I had no idea he could do that. I'm still, I'm pretty sure that toy's still hiding more secrets.
[00:33:16] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I'm seeing some blew my mind polarities and the toys that blew your minds as a kid and the toy you're working on right now for both of you. Right. mm-hmm yeah, very cool. Thank you so much, both of you for being here today for sharing your journey, sharing your bromance with us. I appreciate you for talking in the Facebook group, always like responding on the, what you're working on Wednesdays. Even when I don't respond, I am reading it. So I just appreciate you guys being there and keeping the conversation going. It really means a lot. So thank you.
[00:33:46] Jeff Lawber: Well, thank you very much. I mean, it's been a wonderful group, a wonderful community to be a part of. And yeah, Alan, Azhelle I couldn't have done it without you and, and connecting us, so yeah. Thank you.
[00:33:57] Alan Henry: Oh, definitely.
[00:33:58] Azhelle Wade: Thank you guys so much for being here it was a pleasure chatting with you. Have a great rest of your day.
[00:34:03] Jeff Lawber: You as well. Thank you very much.
[00:34:04] Alan Henry: Thank you.
[00:34:04] Azhelle Wade: Well there, you have it toy people. My interview with Alan Henry and Jeff Lawber. The reason I wanted to have these two on the show is because I really want to promote us working together in this industry. If you have an idea and you just feel it's too big for one person to go at it alone. Or you're not feeling the motivation or support you need to keep grinding day after day until the idea picks up. Maybe what you need to do is to find your toy person to find somebody that is equally as inspired by your idea as you are. It seems that's what Jeff and Alan have. And I would love for that to happen for so many of you. So if you are looking for somebody to connect with, to hopefully work with them on your toy idea. I want to invite you to join our Facebook group. Head over to thetoycoach.com/FB.
[00:35:05] And that will take you to a form that you can fill out so you can join our Facebook group. I look forward to meeting you there. Now, if you love this podcast and you haven't already done. So please leave us a review wherever you're listening. I get an email notification every time a new review comes in and it does put a huge smile on my face to see that the efforts put into this podcast week after week are going appreciated. So please, please, please leave that review. As always, thank you so much for joining me here today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.
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