Episode #82: The Pillars Of Marketing Your Toy From Scratch with Harold Chizick
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I absolutely love talking about marketing. Both digital marketing, traditional PR, and earned media are the main ways you can create awareness for your business. Before you spend any money developing your toy idea, I want you to have a realistic plan to build awareness around your product before you launch it. And you’ll build that awareness throughout marketing. Without that awareness you can’t collect generate email leads and interests. Without email leads and interest, you can’t generate or grow sales.
Our guest today, Harold Chizick points out telltale signs of marketing agencies that are likely to give you a cookie cutter solution and gives straight forward advice on how important research is in digital marketing. If you’re gearing up to market your toy product or if you could use a few tips to improve your existing strategy, then this is the podcast episode for you. Pop your earbuds in and get ready to take notes!
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Contact Harold:
harold@chizcomm.com
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Azhelle Wade: You are listening to making it in the toy industry episode number 82.
[00:00:04] Well, Hey there toy people, Azhelle Wade here. And welcome back to another episode of the toy coach podcast, making it in the toy industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today I am joined by Harold Chizik a passionate and fun loving kid at heart, who is the founder and CEO of Chizcomm LTD and has over 20 years of marketing experience now founded in 2013. Chizcomm is an award-winning fully integrated marketing and media agency that I'm so excited to introduce you to today. Now I'm so thrilled about today's conversation because it's going to be all about marketing. And I have been falling in love with marketing over this past year as the toy coach. So I really can't wait to dive into this topic today, alongside an expert in the field. Harold. let's not waste any more time and get right into this valuable conversation.
[00:01:20]Harold, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:01:24] Harold Chizick: Thank you so much for having me big fan. Love listening it.
[00:01:27] Azhelle Wade: Oh really? I didn't know that.
[00:01:30] Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, let's kick off with a little bit of background on Chizcomm Tell me a little bit about how ChizComm started, who started it? When, why? Where, tell me all the good stuff.
[00:01:43] Harold Chizick: All right. So, you know, I've been pretty fortunate in my career. The company started in 2013 after I had spent, you know, more than 10 years working at spin masters. And I spent some time at mega brands then went back to spin master. But once in 2013 we opened the agency. That's my, myself and my spouse.
[00:02:10] And you know what started as a, Hey, let's start a small consulting operation. Fortunately turned into a a company that services. No more toy and children's entertainment companies from a marketing standpoint than anybody else we represent, you know, hundreds of brands doing everything from PR to social media, to brain strategy, brand development.
[00:02:41] Retail marketing. And of course media buying which, you know, we are the largest purchasers of kids' media both across TV and digital. So started in 2013, we have about 65 staff in our offices that are in Toronto Jersey. And of course now Los Angeles
[00:03:05] Azhelle Wade: Wow. That's big. We went to sprint a start a small company, and here you are today.
[00:03:10] Harold Chizick: It was really a happy accident. It was, it was not planned this way. You just seized the good fortune and opportunity as it as it rose. And fortunately we got a great team who does great work for our clients and the company's grown quite organically but really in a, in a smart and special way, you know, not biting off more than we can chew at any given time and really just investing in people, technology, and delivering on what we promise to our client.
[00:03:46]Azhelle Wade: And now you have been acquired international. Was that a surprise or did you see, was it coming? Was it planned? Like what happened there?
[00:03:54] Harold Chizick: So it was actually a surprise and shock. I remember so we had acquired beacon media in 2019 and that acquisition really fit in seamlessly into what we were doing. And of course we, we saw the benefits to it immediately. So we were actually in the market looking for other agencies that we could perhaps supplier Thursday in late September, I was driving home from the office and I get a phone call and I was approached about the idea of selling our company. And I spoke to my wife that evening, who said, listen, you do a lot of things, really good. But if somebody says they want to buy your company, you always listen. And she gave me a smack across the head. It must have jolted something. Right. And so I called them back the next day to say, yes, we would sign a nondisclosure and, and hear what they had to say. And really the beauty of this I think As a basic philosophy, I always put the who before the what? And in the case of genius brands, it was an immediate connection and a understanding of the synergies that our two organizations could, could have together. And in particular, you know, the management team Andy, Bob, Mike, John, it was, it was really very comfortable right from the begining And you know, less than six weeks later, or just about six weeks later, we made the announcement and subsequently we closed to the deal on February 1st.
[00:05:41] Azhelle Wade: Well, that is every entrepreneur's dream. I must say, building your small business. Not to be anything big and then to get that phone call one day. But at one point I would say, just come was a small company. So you understand the perspective of most of the listeners of this podcast, the entrepreneurial toy people who are just growing their small businesses right now. So I want to ask you this very important question. When in your experience should a small, maybe hasn't turned a profit yet toy company decide to focus on marketing.
[00:06:18]Harold Chizick: So I think that without marketing, you can't create awareness and without awareness, you can't create sales. So I would say that. Marketing and it comes in many different forms, right? You can have influencer outreach, you can have PR you can have social media, you don't have to go into paid media to start.
[00:06:40] But it's really important that even if you are a sales driven organization that you're thinking about. Who is my consumer, how do I reach them? What are the most cost-effective tools that I have that can get my message or my product into their eyes make them aware of it. I think you can't have a business and expect that anything is going to come to you without, you know, working on getting the message out.
[00:07:09]Azhelle Wade: And like you're saying marketing is more than just maybe paid advertising or going to events to pay for opportunities to reach out to your ideal target market. So what are, what are some of those unpaid or those free kind of guerrilla marketing tactics that you might think a small business could apply when they're first starting?
[00:07:30] Harold Chizick: So I think the number one thing would be a Traditional PR. So, you know, working with newspapers and television stations which is becoming harder and harder, but it really is. If your story is compelling or your product is really innovative there's always the opportunity for, for traditional PR in addition to that it's sampling.
[00:07:56] And whether that means, you know, hitting the streets and giving out samples. Working with your distribution channels to do retail events. And I know it's a little bit different right now with COVID, but there is still, you know, promotional opportunities that you can leverage by giving out free samples of your product.
[00:08:15] There's influencer relations. So working with micro and macro
[00:08:20] influencers and believe me, some of them, if the product is, is innovative enough and you create the right relationship it's, it's the unpaid influencers that really will get you the furthest bang for your buck. Everybody loves to talk about paid influencers and yeah, there's a time and a place for paid influencers as part of your paid media strategy. But it's kind of like, you know, think of it like a baby, you know, first thing you want to see your baby do is crawl and after they can crawl, you want to see them walk and after they walk, want them to ride everything is, is good. You gotta think of it like a funnel, right? What are the basic steps? At an entrepreneur that is just starting out, what can they do to help deliver their message. And then they layer on the tactics as they start to see results, start to receive you know, product starts to sell money's coming in. And then you add on to the programs that you already have existing so that you have a full 360 marketing team.
[00:09:30] Azhelle Wade: So I want to just clarify one piece that you said. Micro-influencers there, there are several, and I think this number has evolved since as social media has evolved and grown. What do you see as macro and micro influencers now? Because at one point micro was 500 to a thousand followers. Now some people say it's a thousand to a hundred thousand, whereas macro used to be 10,000 to a million, and now it's a hundred thousand or more.
[00:09:56] What do you those true numbers are right now for macro versus micro?
[00:10:01] Harold Chizick: Well, I think that it's, I would go with the a hundred thousand is the dividing line, because the reality is, is as the evolution of, you know, social world and social content and social platforms evolve. I mean, the truth is if you're on Tik TOK and you only have a hundred people following you, you're not influencing anybody really.
[00:10:27] You know, it, it really depends on the channel and for the most part, we go. The device, the dividing line, the dividing number being a hundred thousand.
[00:10:40] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about chizcomm because looking at your website you do so much more than just like traditional media marketing or even influencer marketing. Like there might be social media posts or might be business cards, things that you handle. But how would you define marketing? What does it encompass even within your business?
[00:11:01] Harold Chizick: Well, I think there's really. Three types of marketing. Number one is, is obviously trade. So trade-marketing and that to me is the type of marketing where you're talking to potential license, sores, licensees or where you're talking to You know, potential acquisition opportunities and just getting your general news out to the trade.
[00:11:31] Then there's retail marketing and retail marketing comes in two buckets, one directly with the retailer talking to the retailer and marketing your goods. And then there's consumer marketing at retail, which is obviously. Part packaging, but it's also point of purchase materials. Retail activations could be advertising on a retailers e-commerce site.
[00:11:59] And then of course the last, and I would say the most important is the consumer marketing. And really the consumer is everywhere. It used to be a time where they were just on the big glass, meaning the TV and that, you know, was the silver bullet There's no more silver bullets in the world of marketing.
[00:12:19] You need to be wherever your consumer is. And that is through a combination of paid guerilla and of course earned media. And that's, that's where the richness of the campaigns really does make a difference. You know, I, I talked to many people asking very similar questions. Nope. I'm I get, I laugh when I sometimes talk to companies and they say, I say, what's your social media strategy?
[00:12:47] And their answer is okay. We have a social media coordinator. And they started as our intern three weeks ago and not to diminish, not to diminish what they're doing, but if your social media strategy isn't being said, Handled by somebody who has experience and really understands the overall strategy and understands the business.
[00:13:12] And you're not going to win right there. They don't understand why, you know, they have a hundred followers and zero engagement. It's cause it's also about the content that you're putting on social. Right? If you it's like so many companies expect I'm going to put my 32nd commercial on my Instagram account and we're going to get millions and millions of views.
[00:13:35] No, you are not, you know, it doesn't work like that. What is compelling? What is driving people to want to view it and share it and, and engage and give it a like, and even more. So give it a comment. Cause we all know likes you know, likes are nice to have it's part of the brag wall, but really the engagement in the comments and the two way dialogue are really what should be.
[00:14:00] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. A hundred percent. It's so it's so funny. Cause I, I see that more and more now everyone, no one really wants to do social media. Cause it's a lot of work, but then nobody wants to pay for social media for their own business. Cause it's very expensive.
[00:14:13]When it's so hard, like you need really a social media strategist before you might need somebody. Who's just going to make some graphics and put it up on, on your, on your page because without. Yeah.
[00:14:27] All right. That's awesome. Thank you. You said so many things, honestly, that sparked a lot of questions. The first thing that you sparked for me was you mentioned you've got to meet your customers where they're at essentially. And it's definitely a big mantra that I have as well.
[00:14:44] Are there any key tactics you use to. Kind of survey the audience of your incoming clients to figure out where they're at, where you should focus your marketing efforts.
[00:14:55] Harold Chizick: Yeah. Well, we always start with research. Everything that we do is based on research. So whether it be, you know, Neil, Finn for, for ratings or calm scores. Digitally or Meltwater for social listening. We really invest heavily into tools, but you know, as great as tools are you also need human capital.
[00:15:21] So, you know, I, myself do not come from an agency background and neither is our executive team. When you look at Donna McNeil, who's our president. She comes from manufacturing and publishing As green campus on oh, comes from our COO and general manager of our media division. She comes from a manufacturing and retail.
[00:15:45] I come from manufacturing. We understand what it's like to not be on the agency side, which is probably the reason why most people think our model of an agency, most of our competitors think we're crazy. And that, you know, we, we could be. You know, making much more money. But we re-invest in human capital so that we have the latest, greatest, smartest people mining or data every single day, because to understand your consumer, you can use the tools, but you also got to be in touch and talking to your consumers.
[00:16:24] So we do that through research and focus groups. Almost like a manufacturer does it, but more importantly, we, we listen twice as much as, as we do anything else because the data is out there. You have to look for it and listen to it. And that's, you know, no two products and no two companies, no two objectives and no two strategies and never be the same.
[00:16:49]Azhelle Wade: Let's say a toy person is reaching out to a marketing agency and they're like, I need some help marketing this product. I spent, you know, all my blood, sweat, and tears building it, and I really want to make sure to hit, what would you say are the telltale signs of an agency? That's just kind of give you a cookie cutter strategy and not going to do that deep dive work that you're talking about, your, your group does.
[00:17:13] Harold Chizick: So I think it comes down to this it's if they're using a lot of catchphrase, If I will tell you, cause I mean, just this morning, we just got some good news from a new client who signed with us today. And I, I can't really announce it as of yet, but the truth is they were telling us, Donna and I, that the reason they went with us as they felt comfortable, because from our initial discussion, it felt that we understood their business. We understood their strategy. You were listening. We had done our proper amount of homework and research. And at the end of the day, we had all of the all of the brands that this company has. You had real examples that they knew were not cookie cutter because the tactics and the, the messaging and how we would handle it. It could tell thought had gone into it. So I think that any agency, I say that we fight to keep our jobs every single day that anyone that works with us should think of us, not as an agency, but as an employee. And having that mentality needs that we're in the trenches with them. Cause we walked in their shoes with them.
[00:18:34] So by giving them. You know, it goes back to, did you ever watch Sesame street?
[00:18:42] Azhelle Wade: I was actually on Sesame street as a child.
[00:18:44] Harold Chizick: Okay. So, so you're gonna, you're gonna know exactly what I'm talking about. There was a very famous song that they used to sing and teaching these kids it's kids. It was one of these things is not like the others, what it is. Right. So I would say anyone talking to an agency is probably talking to three or four of them. And the one that's not like the others is the one you should probably go with.
[00:19:09] Azhelle Wade: Oh, interesting.
[00:19:11] Harold Chizick: that means they're all just taking the cookie cutter, casting the guy and hoping for him the best.
[00:19:14] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah. I remember interviewing someone to help with social at one point. And the what scared me was how quickly they said, oh yeah, yeah, we can do this. And I'm like, you don't even understand my business yet. How, how exactly can you do this for me? So that, I thought that was a great answer.
[00:19:33] When a company is very small, and they don't have a lot to invest in marketing, how do they choose where to start? If they're going to start on their own at first? Where do they even begin? You can't be everywhere because if you're everywhere, then you're nowhere. Where would you suggest that they start?
[00:19:51] Harold Chizick: So selfishly, I will tell you that exact note, that exact question is how we based our business model. We do not work like any other agency we consider ourselves. If I was pitching for your business and explaining, giving you the elevator pitch of, of what we do, we're marketing departments in the box. We have so many people in our company because we have experts in every discipline of marketing. So when we talk to a company about engaging with us, you tell them it's an interview, not a pitch because if they believe in us as a, as a group. If they feel comfortable with us in a job interview type of setting, we provide all the disciplines for them to do their marketing at the salary of one employee. So let's say you hire us as your director or vice president of market. What happens is you have an entire team that works with them. So each client has a marketing director that works on their business that is supported by a marketing manager and two associates. In addition to that, they also have a social media manager and a creative service manager, and all of that falls within our retainer fee so that they don't have to worry about what to do. first The only thing that is not included is paid media. And I always say to our clients, think of us like an employee and any expenses that you would pay for your employee, that they wouldn't have to take out of their pocket. That's the same way we vote and that bench strength and that expertise, not only in the marketing, but the understanding of retail, the understanding of creative services, the understanding of the whole enchillada. Really is the compelling part of our offer because you're exactly right. It's like if you have a, a certain budget that you cannot go beyond, how do you spread it so that you're doing, you know, you're not doing anything of value that will make an impact. And in today's world, it's very difficult to reach the consumer in a compelling way that you need to, if you're not everywhere where they are.
[00:22:16] Azhelle Wade: Yes
[00:22:16] Harold Chizick: That of course, to your point does not come without a cost.
[00:22:21]Azhelle Wade: Okay. So how say someone's like, oh, this sounds so good. I need to hire this agency. How can they really quantify the marketing spend? What do you do for your clients to help them quantify that? Or is that something that they do on their own?
[00:22:38] Harold Chizick: So it it's a little bit of both. So we've many of our clients share. Their retail, weekly retail sales reports with us. So we can literally when we're talking about earned campaigns, so an influencer video or an article in the newspaper or a TV hit and they see that immediate lift in sales, that is, that is a primary way, but in today's world, everybody knows it's no secret and I'm not being cookie cutter here, but everybody knows. retail sales is, is really the, the finer of how to what, what the majority of patients media strategies is leaning towards. So I think that, that the instantaneous information that you get from digital campaigns, Is second to none. We can adjust the campaign. You know, on a daily basis.
[00:23:39] Usually we, we adjust at least twice a week based on what we see on the backend data from our digital campaigns and also seeing how it's lining up with our, our clients, retail reports, you know, we, we do a lot of AB tests. On creative. So see what's resonating with the consumer, make adjustments with it.
[00:24:02] And, and again, most of the companies you work with are, are sales driven organizations. That marketing is an expense and we fight to keep our job every single day by giving weekly reports to clients, you meet with our clients. Every client has a. One-on-one meeting every week. So through the whole list of what's happening and strategies and reporting back to them on what's been achieved and you know, it's it. And they can, they could usually 99% of the time without even knowing if there was something going on.
[00:24:43] They can look at their POS and know if something has transpired, if there's been a big hit or a big win or, or something new that's been tried just based on the sales lives. And, and I think it comes down to trust, right?
[00:24:57] We, we, we, we say what we do, we deliver on what we say. And, and that really, I think the, the other factor that really, I think the, could the partners that we have gives them that extra sense of confidence is again, our executive team, whether it be Kathleen, Donna, Talya, Christie, myself you know, we've been on their side of the table.
[00:25:28] So that gives us insight into what they're thinking before they even have to tell us what they're thinking. So you know, we're, we're able to do, answer them more in real time and saying, oh, we got to go back and figure it out? and talk to some people as frankly, we, we knew that we can anticipate the questions and have the answers. And if those. Answers require an alternate solution. We're able to action it right away. And again, that comes from the experience of having been retailers manufacturers.
[00:26:05]I think that the best way to start is focus social media strategy. Is usually for a, you know, I'm going to call it a less than five person organization where everybody's having to wear multiple hats. I would tell them that social is the right strategy. I would make sure that you have unique creative, whether that be video or photography.
[00:26:33]People won't find if they go to amazon.com, it's not your product shot to do your e-commerce it's your takes him so social shots. And if you outsource someone to do your photography, while you have them doing the photography for e-commerce tell them you need lifestyle shots that are going to be used for social media so that they know. To make sure that it's taken in the style of social media. I would tell them to take, you know, the four or five hours in one sitting and write a creative and engaging and witty social calendar. No write 50 posts that you're going to use for the next two or three weeks, so that you're not waking up in the morning and said, oh boy, what am I going to put on my Facebook page or my Instagram account today?
[00:27:27] And, and then you just throw up something that you might as well have just left it blank, no strategy strategy strategy, go to the social channels of a company that you admire. And go through their channels and take a look at it, see what, why you're engaged to them. And then take that similar approach, carve out three hours, right?
[00:27:51] A two or three weeks social calendar, make sure you have the assets to go with it. And then of course, you know, the thing that Facebook does, which is beautiful. Is that any entrepreneur or anybody for that matter can set up an ad manager and be boosting their posts by targeting the age group that they're looking for and really use the data that you're getting based on your results to adjust your campaigns, see if your target that you think is the group that you think is your target is really the target. That's interacting with your social contacts, because it takes a very wise person to know that they don't know at all.
[00:28:33]And, I was given some advice very early in my career and it was actually by Chris Beardall. Who's now the president of spin masters toy division. He said to me, Harold, you have two ears, two eyes, one mouth looking, listen twice. As much as you speak, we'll learn a lot. And that was the greatest piece of advice. and one that I would always play for us. So I mean, for us, we have the bench strength and the staff to do it. So we have a big enough team, but I would say for the entrepreneur, the hardest thing to do, think of yourself out in the wilderness, and you have to start a fire and you're sticky to rocks and hitting them together.
[00:29:11] Get that spot. Once you get it, he giving you the oxygen. If you have to find a 25th hour in the day, you know, you do it, you fake it till you can make it and just keep pushing on forward and hard to keep that momentum because the minute you let up, somebody else is going to swoop in and take your air.
[00:29:34] That is for sure.
[00:29:34]Interacting with your fan base. When someone messages you on Facebook or linkedIn, I know everyone says best practices are responding within 24 hours. I tell our team that we're failing our clients if we're not responding in 60 minutes. So, you know, being in beat, making sure that they know that you're listening.
[00:29:59] And that you're engaging with them and whether they have something good or bad to say it's really important to have that dialogue with your consumer base or your fan base and to not be afraid to engage. I mean, there's, there's trolls and, you know, blocking a troll, you know, should be the last. That somebody takes. And by the way, somebody is not a troll. If they're giving constructive feedback about a product or service.
[00:30:30]So engage back with them because you know, you do get further ahead with them when you have that dialogue, whether public facing or if you've taken it offline with them, they'll, they'll end up becoming your advocates versus your advocate.
[00:30:45]Azhelle Wade: on helping them grow?
[00:30:46] Harold Chizick: So I think it really depends on the brand because activities are based on the item. And also, what are the goals? What are the retail goals? What is your distribution like?
[00:30:56]I think, again, it goes back to that C-word cookie cutter is anybody that could answer that question. Really doesn't understand the fundamentals of business and how you use marketing to row your business and enhance your this.
[00:31:10] So I know that sounds like an avoidance tactic by not, but here's the reality is we've had customers talk to us about running a TV campaign and they want to run TV in October, November, and December, but their budget, they said they have 300 pounds.
[00:31:29]For $300,000, I would not let somebody advertise on TV over a six or eight week period. is just, you're not going to get the value out of it. So we're going to tell them they should look at a digital marketing campaign, which based on the product and the target may be less or may maybe more. So, so there can really be no blanket answer on how much that investment is, but I think if you start with a good agency partner that you can trust, and I would also say that, you know, the old thing when there's too many cooks in the kitchen, it spoils the broth when you have too many different agency.
[00:32:16]So a digital agency, a PR agency, a social agency. I, you know, when you would, they're all fighting over the same budget. The focus gets lost on the client and the brands. So I would, I would always advocate not only because it's our, the way that we work, but we see it all the time. When you fragment your marketing efforts, even if the, all the agencies are reporting, the one point of contact. Within the company, they are still not acting 100% in earnest on behalf of their clients. They're looking at sort of their own billables and what is best for them. if I'm a digital agency I'm fighting for the digital dollar for all the dollars to go to digital. If I'm a TV agency, I'm fighting for all the dollars.
[00:33:05] If I am a service agency, I'm fighting for all the dollars. So by doing, having it all under one roof, Well help you make sure you have the most efficient use of your marketing dollars.
[00:33:18]Azhelle Wade: Thank you so much. That was, this was a great conversation. Where can my listeners learn more about you and Chizcomm?
[00:33:25] Harold Chizick: Email me directly harold@chizcomm.com or check us out on LinkedIn Facebook, Instagram. Test, if we really do reply under 60 minutes, because I guarantee you, we will.
[00:33:47] Azhelle Wade: That's incredible. Thank you. This was a great conversation and I, I learned a couple things too, so thank you so much. Take care.
[00:33:53]Well toy people. I hope you found today's interview with Harold. Chizik helpful in guiding you on the most important step of selling your toy or game.
[00:34:03] The marketing of it. Harold gave an incredible overview, including trade marketing, retail, marketing, and consumer marketing at retail. He even dove into a few specifics regarding the most important places to start with your marketing when you're a smaller team and how to maintain momentum that you might build up by interacting with their fan base on Instagram and comments on posts. Now, when you reach out to a company to help with your marketing, you'll need to have all your accounts set up and a clear understanding of who your ITM, your ideal target market is as well as well as what product do you intend to sell to them, to help you figure all of that out head over to toycreatorsacademy.com to get on the wait list for the only toy business course that helps you develop better toy ideas and the strategies to sell them.
[00:34:58] If you love this podcast, but you haven't left a review yet, what are you waiting for? I absolutely love hearing about how this podcast influences your toy business or inspires you to become a toy entrepreneur or inventor. Also, I want you to get to know other listeners of the podcast and hang out with me online to do that just join the toy coach podcast, community Facebook group. You can grab the link in the show notes. As always, thank you so much for joining me here today and listening into this podcast episode, I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week. I'll see you later. Toy people.
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🎓Learn more about how you can develop and pitch your toy idea with Toy Creators Academy® by clicking here to visit toycreatorsacademy.com and join the waitlist.