#244: Choosing The Right Crowdfunding Platform For Your Launch with Lisa Ferland
Have you ever wondered what it takes to successfully launch on a crowdfunding platform?
Many creators enter the world of crowdfunding believing it's simply about having a great idea and posting it online. However, there's far more strategy involved than we realize. The process requires meticulous planning, audience engagement, and a strong narrative to capture backers' hearts and minds.
In this episode of Making It In The Toy Industry, host Azhelle Wade talks with Lisa Ferland, a seasoned crowdfund consultant who has helped raise over $1 million for creators on platforms such as Kickstarter, BackerKit, and Indiegogo. Lisa shares tips on everything from evaluating if crowdfunding is right for you, to understanding the importance of community, and the critical role of storytelling in the toy industry. Discover why the pre-launch phase is crucial and learn specific strategies to keep backers engaged throughout your campaign. Listen to the full episode to absorb these insights and more—perfect for both seasoned and aspiring creators!
Listen For These Important Moments
05:25 Lisa’s Journey: From Editing Stories to Crowdfunding Consulting
11:22 The First Steps for a Successful Kickstarter Launch
18:47 Indicators That Crowdfunding Might Be Right for You
24:30 The Importance of Building an Audience for Crowdfunding Success
30:56 Engaging and Maintaining a Community of Backers
36:45 The Role of Visuals and Multimedia in Kickstarter Success
41:03 The Significance of the Pre-Launch Phase in Crowdfunding
49:20 Understanding and Navigating the U-Shaped Curve of Campaigns
55:12 Key Elements of Post-Launch Engagement for Repeat Backers
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Discover more crowdfunding insights and expert advice from Lisa Ferland by visiting her website: https://lisaferland.com/ -
EP 244 - Lisa Ferland
[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Making It In the Toy Industry, episode number two hundred and fourty-four . Hey, toy people , Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of Making It In The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today. I'm thrilled to have Lisa Furland with us.
[00:00:35] Lisa is a crowdfund consultant who has helped authors, illustrators, and creators bring their imaginative ideas to life, raising over $1 million on platforms like Kickstarter, BackerKit, and Indiegogo for her clients. She's an expert in guiding creators through every step of launching a successful campaign, from crafting compelling stories to offering engaging rewards that go beyond the product itself.
[00:00:59] So today, we're going to talk about crowdfunding with Lisa. Lisa, welcome to the show.
[00:01:04] Lisa Ferland: Thank you. So happy to be here.
[00:01:05] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I can't wait. , did you listen to the BackerKit episode by any chance?
[00:01:09] Lisa Ferland: I've spoken with BackerKit numerous times. So no, I didn't listen to the one specifically on toys, but yes, I've spoken with them many times.
[00:01:15] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: It was so fun. And they said that they've had a number of listeners reach out to them from this. So I'm sure everyone's ears are perked up because we're talking crowdfunding again, and you are going to bring insight from Kickstarter, BackerKit, and Indiegogo. Fantastic. Before we dive in, I know that the toy industry isn't your main industry.
[00:01:34] So normally I would ask "the thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was?", but for you, you're an author, first and foremost. So I want to ask you that question. The thing that surprised me most about being an author was
[00:01:47] Lisa Ferland: I would say just how many edits you need to do for a very short story. So people think that a short story means it's easy. And you probably go through 500 iterations for A very short story. So it's still the development process is still quite long.
[00:02:05] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: That's great. And I wonder, do you have any first impressions of the toy industry since you have now started, we've been working with a TCA accelerator student with their campaign and you have helped a few people with a plush that goes along with their books.
[00:02:21] So do you have an opinion on the toy industry and what surprises you about it?
[00:02:26] Lisa Ferland: Yes. Yes. Just in the little dipping my toes into the toy side, I would say what's surprising is just how much narrative is needed around toys as well. I mean, there's a lot of world building, character development that can really do well for toys as opposed to just creating really fun toy. People like toys with a story behind them as well.
[00:02:47] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah. And you say it's required. Like, can you give me a specific example of where maybe you did a launch and some of your copy didn't dive into the character story, or you did an email blast that didn't dive into the character story. And then you did an email blast that did, and you saw more ROI from the one that did?
[00:03:04] Lisa Ferland: I would say it's not necessarily an ROI. It's not so clear to see, but you do need to get people over the hump of why should they back your campaign? Why should they pledge? Why should they hop in early on this crowdfunding campaign? What's in it for them? And being part of the story making them care about the characters or having them help you build the world can go a long way.
[00:03:28] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Oh, yeah, like including, it's like a build your own adventure, but with a toy and a crowdfunding campaign.
[00:03:34] Lisa Ferland: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:03:36] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Now, many creators have fantastic ideas for toys, but they don't know where to begin with crowdfunding. What are some of the first steps that someone should take when they're preparing to launch a book or a toy on Kickstarter?
[00:03:50] Lisa Ferland: First off, crowdfunding is not for everybody. So you need to decide if this is something that you even want to pursue, because there are a lot of different ways to launch your product, launch your book, launch your toy that don't take into account crowdfunding. So you just need to decide.
[00:04:05] But if you decided to something you want to do of course, market research, you need to go to the crowdfunding platforms themselves. Look at campaigns that are similar to what you want to launch, see how they're designed, see what the success failure rate is, do your own market research in terms of what the offer was.
[00:04:21] You will be missing some key elements like the expenses on the creator side. You won't be able to see that but take into account all the information that they do give you as well as visit their social media. See what type of social media audiences that they have, what was the reception, what type of content did they post during their campaign?
[00:04:41] And then of course you want to back a few campaigns, get into it yourself, be part of the community. And at the very least, you're going to need a prototype yourself before you can do any type of launch. So you have to have a prototype, a budget, and of course an audience.
[00:04:57] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I want to go back to, you said crowdfunding isn't for everybody. Is there a checklist to identify if crowdfunding is for you?
[00:05:06] Lisa Ferland: It's definitelyy more of a personality checklist in terms of, is this something that, you know, what are your goals? Is your goal to turn this into sort of a self funded hobby? Is your goal to turn this into a profitable business? So you should have kind of clear goals going into it, and that is going to help you shape your campaign.
[00:05:27] In terms of how you price things on the type of audience you build before you launch and how you structure your rewards. So you need to be kind of clear on your objectives there. Not everyone wants to crowdfund because it does require reaching out to people. It's quite intensive. You need to build your audience and engage your audience before you launch.
[00:05:48] That's what a good product launch would do, but it is much more personal and it can feel more personal, especially if you have supporters who have been in your corner who don't show up and back your crowdfunding campaign. How is that going to make you feel? Are you taking this personally?
[00:06:03] So again it's not for everyone. Some people are more sensitive than others. So it just depends on your personality and sort of not even risk tolerance, but just personality risk tolerance. If you can handle potentially failing in public as well.
[00:06:17] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah. I think I mentioned this to you. I once talked to somebody who specializes in Kickstarter launches and I described to them how I launched my program TCA when I first started. And he was like, "Oh, that sounds very similar to what we do." And if it is at all similar, I'll bring up points as you bring them up.
[00:06:32] But it is emotionally draining. And it's like, you wouldn't think that launching something virtually would feel so physically taxing, but I mean, it's exhausting and if you do it well, like you might be decorating your home when you're going live so that you have like a visual display. You might be creating some sort of physical display in your home of your toy product that you show on video or you take photos of or I mean, like, there's so many ways to make it feel more interactive. And that's what sucks the energy out of you. And for myself, I would do two week launches and it was a lot like my husband would be like, "Oh, we're doing this again. It's like, we're launching again. Okay." You know?
[00:07:15] Lisa Ferland: Yeah. any launch is a lot of energy going into it. And especially with a crowdfunding campaign, I'll discuss it more in depth, but the pre launch is where all the work is done. So the actual campaign itself is It's sort of like the finishing touch, like that's the frosting on the cake.
[00:07:32] All the work is done in the prep. So it's for people looking at it, it's a two week or three week launch. For you, it's been five months
[00:07:41] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yes. Yeah. So true. Yeah. That is true. I didn't even mention that. Yeah. No. Yeah. There's like a whole. pre nurture sequence where you're like finding your people, getting them into your world, seeing if they're interested once you start talking to them on a weekly basis through email or whatever method you use.
[00:07:56] Yeah, very true. Yes. And then you're like, "Ooh, are they going to buy? They've been hanging out with me for now six months. Who knows?"
[00:08:02] Lisa Ferland: And you don't know. And that's the scary thing. You really don't know. You have to hit launch without knowing if people are going to show up.
[00:08:09] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: honestly, I don't think it gets easier for me in my perspective. Like I have a launch debrief that I did every time I launched my program live. And at the end of it, I would have a conversion rate like, "Oh, okay.
[00:08:21] That's pretty good." I would like to have 6 percent conversion rate, which was pretty good for me. And that still every subsequent launch would never give me a sense of security. I was like, who knows what's going to happen this time? We don't.
[00:08:35] Lisa Ferland: It's true. I mean, the world is always shifting. So any launch is really dependent on, you know, email marketing, social media is changing all the time. So if you take a break for any length of time, or if you change your product, or if you change your audience, or if you change your messaging, you don't know how it's going to perform.
[00:08:52] I mean, you just don't know.
[00:08:54] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yes, that is actually why I went away from that launch model. But anyway, okay. I you know, it is, that's why now TCA is open all the time and I do monthly like boosts, but I don't do a full doors, closed doors, open launch because of that reason, the anxiety of what has changed. but anyway, okay.
[00:09:11] You mentioned something about community, getting involved with the community. How is that so important? Why is that so important?
[00:09:19] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, so your community in terms of being part of the crowdfunding community yourself is so important. Yes, it's absolutely so important because crowdfunding is a community effort. So when you reach out to other creators, you can establish alliances, you can establish business relationships, business collaborations, you never know who you're going to meet and who they know.
[00:09:44] So it's extremely important to be involved in the community and reach out to other creators. You know, you're all crowdfunding. You have that in common. They have tips for you. They may have insights that you don't have. So it's really good to support and then, you know, feel free to reach out to them and say, "Hey", you know, they may not respond to you but maybe they will.
[00:10:05] And, you know, say, "Hey I'm planning a crowdfunding campaign. Do you have any quick tips or resources you could point me in the direction of, or anything you found really helpful?" And hopefully, you know, They'll get back to you. I mean, it's, it really is. We all want to help each other.
[00:10:18] A rising tide lifts all boats here. And I think that this isn't a competitive market. If, and especially in the book industry, when I work with authors, if you can get one reader, a reader likes to read and they like all books. And so It's not like, oh, there's only space for one here.
[00:10:38] We really want to share audiences and cross promote and lift each other up as much as possible. Same thing in the toy industry. If there's toy collectors, if there are people who are really you know, fanatics about a certain type of toy and they really like that, they're going to collect your type of toy as well.
[00:10:55] So, I think looking at it as a collaboration is super important. And then also you have emotional support when you're launching. Like again, you know how emotionally draining this is. There is doubts that run through your mind. Am I doing the right thing? Am I crazy?
[00:11:07] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Only five people bought, why?
[00:11:11] Lisa Ferland: Will people show up? What do I do? So to have someone there in your corner saying, "Yes, you're doing great. Like I see your stuff." You know, the comic book people are fantastic at this. They do like pods, like engagement pods on social media, boosting each other, commenting on each other's work. So it is, it's really important.
[00:11:29] So save some of your budget to support other campaigns because hopefully there's no guarantee, but hopefully it comes back as well.
[00:11:37] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: You mentioned earlier that you notice for toys, there's an importance on storytelling and you're surprised at how important that storytelling is for toys. What are some key elements that creators should focus on to capture the attention and the hearts of potential backers?
[00:11:51] Lisa Ferland: Yeah. I would say, you know, what makes your toy unique? Why? Why are you bringing this toy to market? Why are you passionate about it? So really focusing on your why and then illustrating why it fits into their life, why they should have it. Are there any unique features to the toy that they need to know about that's, you know, special.
[00:12:13] Are you handcrafting something? Is it interactive in any way? Like what makes your toy different than everything else? And why should people get it? And why should people participate in the campaign? So there's a lot of why's there, you know, like your personal why, and then a lot of their why's. Why is this something that they need in their lives?
[00:12:33] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: For any Toy Creators Academy people listening, go to module four and focus on that purpose. That purpose is one of like the four P's we talk about. It's everything. I mean, Lisa saying it helps with crowdfunding, but even when you go to the phase where you're ready to go into retail and go into specialty retail stores, that why is also what helps retailers connect with your product.
[00:12:53] So it's not a lost effort if you put that effort in upfront for the crowdfunding campaign.
[00:12:59] Lisa Ferland: It's probably the most important to define because it will set your website copy. It will set your advertising copy. I mean everything. So it's extremely important to have that vision nailed down.
[00:13:11] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I even venture to say like the reason my program TCA, I put the why before the product development process is sometimes I'll see people express to me a why a reason they made their product and when they show me the product I'm like, "Look, I love your why. Your product does not convey it." So then I'll say there's something missing, like for, I don't know, for example, let's say you have a child that has a speech impediment and then you just make a plush that has, I don't know, a funny shaped mouth or something, and they're saying like, "This plush is designed to help other kids with a speech impediment."
[00:13:45] And I would say to that person, "Well, this plush won't do that. Like, it doesn't have the characteristics. It doesn't have the play factor. there's no mechanism. Like, how is it going to do that? Is it a story that it needs or is it a mechanism that it needs to relate or is it like an audio feature it needs?"
[00:14:00] So yeah, knowing your why can actually design your toy too. So that's great. So for creators listening that are thinking about starting a crowdfunding campaign, whether it's BacketKit, Kickstarter, Indiegogo, how should they determine what their crowdfunding goal will be?
[00:14:18] Lisa Ferland: Yeah. Okay. So this is really important. This is the, one of the most important things. So your crowdfunding goal, a lot of people think it's set on your expenses, like how many expenses you're incurring for production and shipping. Okay. That's, put that to a side. It's really dependent on your audience size.
[00:14:34] If you have an audience size of a hundred people, you cannot crowdfund. 10, 000 and maybe you can, but generally you're not going to. So it's really your audience size that determines your campaign goal amount, because as you talked about conversion, you had a 6 percent conversion, which is fantastic. But I have seen crowdfunding campaigns get a 2 percent conversion, a 3 percent conversion.
[00:14:59] Yeah,
[00:14:59] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: That's normal.
[00:15:00] Lisa Ferland: Quite low. And it depends on where your audience lives. So it's really important that you have an email list full of people who are interested in the product that you're about to launch, whether that be a book or a toy whatever you are about to launch, an email list dedicated just to that event so that you can reach out to them over and over again and explain what's happening and keep them updated.
[00:15:22] That should have around an eight to 10 percent conversion rate because they signed up for that. Maybe not though, it may be 5%. So you just have to be willing to build your audience, social media will have a two or 3 percent conversion rate. Email should have a slightly warmer conversion rate because they signed up.
[00:15:40] And then, you know, you want to convert all the traffic going into your campaign. I would say less important is the PR bloggers, podcasters, those guests, those are important to tell your existing audience that you are doing amazing things. But in terms of getting extra people, it's a much lower conversion rate.
[00:15:59] So people who know you and love you and want to support you, they're going to convert much higher than a stranger who's just hearing about your project for the first time. So I would say your campaign goal, you have to do the reverse math on how large is your audience? What is that potential conversion rate?
[00:16:14] And then you have to do your market research to see what is the average pledge per backer. So if the average pledge per backer for a toy. It's $50, perhaps, maybe. I mean, it depends. Plushes are different than final toys. So you need to figure out what's the average pledge per backer. Take an, a sample of, you know, 10 campaigns, take that average of average pledge per backer.
[00:16:33] Cause, you know, eliminate the outliers of too low, too high. Don't just look at million dollar campaigns. Look at the smaller campaigns as well. And then kind of factor that in and say, okay, with my conversion rate and my average pledge per backer, this is the size of the audience I need for email.
[00:16:47] This is the size of the audience I need for social media, and then create a marketing plan for all those channels.
[00:16:52] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah that's exactly what I teach my students to do with retail. Like go to the store and look at the current, the retail prices, and that's where you're going to figure out where you're going to land, but yeah, doing this for the pledge amount. That's so clever. So when they determine that pledge amount, are they then, okay back cause you know, they're determining the pledge amount and they're saying, okay, so maybe the pledge amount.
[00:17:12] Average is $10. Let's say, are they then saying, okay, what can I give for the $10? Because obviously that for that price, that's not going to be the full plush. It's going to be a sticker set or I don't, is that what
[00:17:24] Lisa Ferland: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you definitely want to give people levels like steps to enter your campaign. You don't just want to hit them with a $50 toy and say, "Hey, it's $50 or nothing." You know, it's 50 plus, you know, 50, a 100, a 150", you want to give them levels to support your campaign without the full amount.
[00:17:40] But you do want to incentivize them to get the thing that you're crowdfunding, like you were, if you're crowdfunding a toy don't have three rewards of stickers, pins, and other things, first focus on the toy. You have one thing at the lower level and then just jump straight to the toy because the focus is the toy, not all the stuff around it. No,
[00:18:01] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Not the swag.
[00:18:02] Lisa Ferland: No swag. We get so distracted with swag.
[00:18:05] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: We do get to, I mean, I'm wearing swag. I'm distracted by swag.
[00:18:09] Lisa Ferland: I love swag.
[00:18:11] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: It's hard. Once you start a business, you just want to put your logo on everything. You're like,
[00:18:16] Lisa Ferland: And nobody wants it. No one
[00:18:18] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Nobody wants your logo on everything. It's so true. How do people choose which platform to go with? Kickstarter, BackerKit, Indiegogo? Is it based on what projects do well on those platforms?
[00:18:29] Lisa Ferland: It could be. I mean, I would say that it depends on what campaign, what type of platform you like yourself. I would say Kickstarter has the most brand name recognition in terms of what it is, it's like Kleenex and tissues. It's like Kickstarter and crowdfunding. But it doesn't mean that's the platform for you.
[00:18:46] I would go to each platform and back at least one campaign on each platform to see yourself what the end user experience is like. I just launched a campaign. I just finished one on BackerKit as part of Book Topia. It has so many features. So many features that if you are a brand new beginner, I'm not sure I would recommend it because it's so it's quite complex and can be quite technical.
[00:19:08] If you are an experienced, seasoned crowdfunding person, then it makes sense to do BackerKit. So it, it just really depends on what you want to do. Yeah, Indiegogo is also great. I would say a lot of the features that made Indiegogo stand out a few years ago have been absorbed by the other platforms.
[00:19:28] So it's really up to you're going to drive your traffic to. One campaign or another, and they all have their pros and cons. So you need to kind of do your own research and figure out what works best for you.
[00:19:39] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: How would you recommend someone do that? The pre launch work you mentioned earlier, so they can get their, build their list and warm them up before they launch.
[00:19:48] Lisa Ferland: Yeah. It's a lot. So the first thing you have to do is have a teaser page or a way to collect people's email information. So BackerKit offers a teaser page to collect emails. Kickstarter does as well. Indiegogo does as well. So all three platforms will do that. That's the number one thing you want to do is announce that this is coming.
[00:20:06] You don't have to say when. You can have that page up for months. But you need to start collecting people who are interested in your project specifically. So start announcing that and then also start putting it out there on social media, reach out to people one on one via email to your connections, people, you know, who would be interested in it, ask them to put it in their newsletter.
[00:20:26] I mean, there's lots of ways that you can get word out about it. Just like you'd be marketing a product, but in the prelaunch phase, you're marketing your newsletter list. You know, and you can incentivize people to sign up when you sign up for a newsletter list, you get X, Y, Z or you get X, Y, Z when you back the campaign and you're a member of my newsletter list.
[00:20:45] So there's a lot of different incentives you can do, but yeah, the number, the most important thing is to get that contact information and start warming everybody up in your audience.
[00:20:54] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So let's imagine that we've launched. We were successful. We hit our goal. Maybe we exceeded it. So what strategies do you have that are most effective for keeping backers engaged throughout a campaign?
[00:21:06] If you do have like a two week campaign, maybe even a month campaign, what do you do to re engage people during the slower portions of a campaign?
[00:21:14] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, this is one thing that I think it's important for everyone to know. Every crowdfunding campaign has a U shaped curve. So launch day is the biggest and generally has the most number of backers and the most amount raised. Day two will also, you know, kind of drop off and then it kind of drops off precipitously from there with a little bit of an incline on the way back up.
[00:21:34] So at the end of the campaign, you'll see an increase. That's normal. So what do you do in between? And this is where BackerKit truly shines is the polls, updates, milestone achievements, all of that. Stretch goals are what they're called on Kickstarter. But I would say that BackerKit has really good visualization of those stretch goals so you can log it in as a milestone achievement and they will say, so you know, you are 91 percent of the way to your next milestone. So it's a really cool visual way to encourage your backers or people who are just following your campaign to participate in the campaign and help you reach each milestone on Kickstarter. They don't have that visualization, so you would have to do that visualization.
[00:22:15] But you can do that on the page itself or you can do that in the project updates. So yeah, I would say polls, project updates, cross promo, unlocking stretch goals. So thinking through, okay. What? And it's really hard to know what the tempo of your campaign will be until you're in it. So you want to be flexible in that regard and not post all your stretch goals or milestones right away.
[00:22:40] But maybe save that as a graphic for when you know, okay, I should set my goals every 500 because my campaign is slowed down a lot. I'm not funding, you know, 1000 every day. I'm funding 125 each day. So then you change the tempo of how you're going to unlock your stretch goals based on, you know, the types of backers that you're getting in.
[00:23:01] So yeah, there's just a lot, just stay flexible with it. But yeah, I would say polls, asking questions, asking for feedback, that's a great way to get engagement.
[00:23:10] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Offering milestones is such a unique way to make your campaign stand out. Can you give an example of some milestones or rewards that have worked for your clients in the past?
[00:23:20] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, for the milestones. Well, you know, in researching the toys, I would say that there were a lot of toy designs that get unlocked. So as people back the campaign or share the campaign to bring other backers into it because we want to incentivize sharing. It unlocks more designs. So maybe you have a base toy.
[00:23:39] That's your base design. It's like, okay, if we fund and reach our goal, everyone gets this as the design. But if we reach the next goal, you unlock this really cool design. And then if we get to 10, 000, we unlock four designs. And so you can kind of, it depends on what toy you're doing, but you can offer that as a stretch goal.
[00:23:55] I would say for book campaigns, stretch goals are much more difficult. No one's really incentivized to help you get spot gloss, you know, on your cover, like, no, no one's really so I would say the toy industry definitely has more the upper hand in terms of unlocking things, or you can unlock accessories.
[00:24:14] I mean, there's so many things that you can unlock and have fun with.
[00:24:17] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I mean, it's an upper hand because you help clients launch their books on crowdfunding sites, but with the toy industry, yeah, there's a lot you can offer, but if you want to offer something that really fits in with your plastic toy, it's another mold. So it's a big, it can be a big investment for, it has to, it might be a very high priced milestone to be able to unlock that.
[00:24:37] Lisa Ferland: You have to be very careful not to over promise and not to unlock too quickly in the name of having fun. Yeah. Cause it gets really exciting. So yes, you do want to make sure you do all the math before and understand that even when your campaign ends, there will be people whose credit cards never get charged.
[00:24:59] So how it works for all of all three that we've mentioned, Kickstarter, BackerKit and Indiegogo. As long as your pledges finish beyond your campaign goal amount by the deadline, you will get all the money because it's an all or nothing. So you will get all that money. However, they go through a two week process where they try to collect the funds and they charge a credit cards.
[00:25:17] No, not everyone has a credit card that goes through. Some get declined, some need authentication that, you know, credit cards. They say, "Oh, you have to approve this purchase." Maybe the person never approves the purchase. That could be a very large purchase. And if that happens a number of times, that's going to be a significant amount of funding, but you are still required because your campaign succeeded.
[00:25:38] You are still required to fulfill everything you promised.
[00:25:41] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So what is the percentage of failed payments in a campaign?
[00:25:47] Lisa Ferland: It ranges. I would say Kickstarter has a lower percentage of failed, so it's a little safer. It could be, you know, five to 10%. BackerKit is close. It's kind of high. Actually, I'd say like 10 to 20%. So that's quite, I mean, you can resolve it and you can reach out to the backers individually and resolve it in a different way.
[00:26:09] But just know that going in, that there is always that don't overpromise, make sure you have enough margin exactly and understand the amount you end with, visually may not be that the amount that ends up in your bank account.
[00:26:22] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Interesting. Very interesting. So you've helped your authors extend their fun in their campaigns beyond just the book itself. So what are some ways that you built an ecosystem around a book campaign that keeps backers excited about future products and updates, you know, if they don't care about the spot gloss?
[00:26:41] Yes!
[00:26:42] Lisa Ferland: No, they don't care about spot gloss. They do not care. They don't care about page thickness. All the things that cost money, I care about.
[00:26:48] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Page thickness until they get it and they're like, why does this feel like a newspaper?
[00:26:52] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, then they really care.
[00:26:54] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: You know? Then they care.
[00:26:55] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, I would say, you know, surprisingly, people are really interested in the behind the scenes. Like, they're really not familiar with how books come together. They're not familiar with the editing process or the illustration process.
[00:27:08] So bringing people behind the scenes is a great way to, to show them and to give them a sneak peek or something that they wouldn't get. Otherwise, I mean, usually people buy things in a store. They have no idea how it got there. So it is unique and you can offer that and you can do that in project updates or through backer emails.
[00:27:26] And that's something everyone can do, you know, in the toy development process, you can show a prototype, you can show the failed prototypes. Like what are the obstacles that you keep running into? People just want to hear, and they do want updates. So if something happens and this happens a lot, if you get fall ill or your project hits a snag, let them know, please let them know, because otherwise they're going to think that, wait, I gave this person all this money and I'm not getting my thing or delayed.
[00:27:54] And so you just really want to maintain that trust and transparency with your biggest, earliest supporters. That's probably the most important thing is to use those project updates and backer emails. To foster that trust and communication,
[00:28:09] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah. I think it's so easy to think that they're not real people on the other end of the screen. And to think, "Oh, if I just go dark, no one's going to notice." They're going to notice.
[00:28:18] Lisa Ferland: They're going to notice. Yeah. They want an update. They want an update.
[00:28:22] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I'll put like the smallest typo in an email and people will respond like, "Hey, Zhelly,
[00:28:26] did you know you, you had a typo?" I'm like "I, I do now. Thank you." They noticed.
[00:28:31] Lisa Ferland: Forbidden link. Doesn't work. Oh gosh. Oh gosh.
[00:28:35] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So accurate. So let's imagine now our campaign is done. We're funded. We're doing great. We're living high. How important is it to keep communicating with our backers? What's the best way to maintain the relationship, build loyalty for future projects?
[00:28:51] Lisa Ferland: Yeah. It's so important. I mean, these are people who supported you. They came out of the woodwork to support you. Maybe they've been fans a long time and now they finally get to participate or pre order something. So it's much easier to convert a returning backer than to convert someone brand new.
[00:29:06] So maintaining that relationship Is really key. Ask them for their feedback. Say, "Hey, as a former backer, I'm working on this project. Are you interested? Do you want to, you know?" Get them in on the list for your next project, whatever it is. Some people will burn out. Like you're not going to get a hundred percent return rate on everyone who backed you the first time.
[00:29:26] But it is it, you will get some return backers, maybe 20%, 30% return backers. So you can incentivize them. You can offer them special rewards. And say, "Hey, when you back my next campaign as a returning backer, you get, I don't know, a two for one or some extra bonus", whatever you can swing on launch day that, that really kind of moves the needle for you and makes it especially valuable for them.
[00:29:50] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: The last thing I want to touch on is timing for this campaign. Is there a best time to launch a Kickstarter campaign? Best time of the year? Strategic windows? That tend to work for authors or ones that you think work for people with toys?
[00:30:03] Lisa Ferland: It's whenever you're ready. Well, sometimes you never feel ready. So, maybe it's whenever your audience is ready.
[00:30:08] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Oh.
[00:30:09] Lisa Ferland: Whenever you and your audience is ready. So it's you know, sometimes you have to, kick the baby bird out of the nest and just launch already.
[00:30:16] But you have to find that balance of, "Okay, is my audience paying attention? Are they engaged?" And then, you know, then go for it and really launch. I would say most creators launch on a Tuesday. And they end on a Thursday. So those days are important because Monday people are like sleepy and not paying attention.
[00:30:34] So hit them on a Tuesday and then end on a Thursday. Don't end on a Friday or Saturday. And give yourself 21 to 30 days to run the entire campaign.
[00:30:42] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Interesting. I tend to start mine on a Wednesday and end on a Sunday, but for me it's a different market. But yeah, that's interesting. Yep. Yep.
[00:30:51] Lisa Ferland: So if trying to catch people in front of their computers when they're at work, those are sort of the best times. It depends if you're launching to kids or parents.
[00:31:00] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I know. Yes.
[00:31:01] Lisa Ferland: Avoid the back to school because it's just so crazy.
[00:31:04] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yes, I know. September used to be a good time to launch and this year I felt like it was a terrible time to launch. I didn't launch this year, but I know a lot of people who were launching products, digital and physical in September and it was like a no go.
[00:31:18] Lisa Ferland: It's so hard. Well, especially, you know, back to school, there's new schedules. People are just kind of crazy. They're not paying attention. They may be incompletely well intentioned, but they just miss it. They
[00:31:29] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: They just miss it. They're like, did you launch yet? You're like, "Oh yeah"
[00:31:33] Lisa Ferland: The shorter your campaign the more on it people need to be. So if it just, and honestly, anything could a news something in the news could destroy your marketing, just anything. So it can be really hard. Sometimes you get lucky and it's a quiet time news cycle and you get people's interests.
[00:31:51] But sometimes it's just, people are distracted.
[00:31:53] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: You mentioned that visuals are key right now in Kickstarter campaigns. What do you mean by that?
[00:31:59] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, visuals are so important. So as visual as you can make it, let people know the specs, do GIFs, those rotating images. If you have any type of animated anything. So if you have a still picture of your toy, make like arrows or sparkles around it or something, or just make it visual and eye catching. Because of social media, people's attention spans are super short. And so we need sparkly movie things to look at. Um, So we use that if your toy has any type of interactiveness to it, which it should as a toy, show it. You know, show the thing being taken off or put on.
[00:32:38] I mean, it, you could do stop motion. You could be really creative with it. You don't have to be face on camera if you don't want to but you know, show the toy coming apart or being put together, show as much as you can and have videos, short videos, GIFs, animations, anything you can do to showcase your toy.
[00:32:57] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I want to ask you about fulfillment. So we talked to BackerKit on this podcast recently and BackerKit actually started as the fulfillment arm of Kickstarter, we learned. So, fulfillment tends to be the thing that trips up a lot of creators.
[00:33:11] I'm not sure if it's just the management of all of that contact and payment information, if it's the cost that they aren't planning for, but what have you seen trip up your customers that you can maybe give people advice on how to avoid and be wary of?
[00:33:25] Lisa Ferland: Yeah, fulfillment is super tricky. So what BackerKit does really well is they do not recommend charging shipping during your campaign. So when you're running, you don't need to factor shipping into the expense side of your campaign because you're going to charge the backers later during fulfillment.
[00:33:43] This is really good. If you have a long time period between the end of your campaign and when you will be fulfilling the toys. Manufacturing takes time. Testing takes time. It may be eight months before you're ready to deliver. So in that time, shipping may have changed. the costs are always going up in terms of shipping and fulfillment.
[00:34:01] You need to know if you plan on using a fulfillment service or if you're going to self fulfill. That's important to know. If your campaign goes viral and all of a sudden you have 5000 orders to fulfill, how are you going to do it? So talking to those fulfillment services and getting proposals from them.
[00:34:20] So you understand you can put that into the budget is extremely important. Having a plan factoring in the cost of bubble mailers and any type of boxes that you're going to ship. All of that goes into it. So because we don't normally do fulfillment, it becomes an unwieldy thing. So it may be worth, depending on how successful your campaign is, it may be worth hiring a service to do it for you.
[00:34:43] But yeah, I would say that there will always be that BackerKit has a great fulfillment arm in which you can get more items into the cart because you can offer sort of like a preorder store. And so as they're fulfilling and entering their information for shipping, they say, "Oh, yeah, throw in another one or thrown an extra accessory or an extra doll."
[00:35:04] Like, that's what I really want. So it can also be a source of additional revenue.
[00:35:08] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Okay. Oh I keep thinking it's the last question. It's never the last question. Well, this is okay. Actually, no these are our closing questions. We have some special closing questions for you based on your experience. So you've raised over a million dollars for your clients and crowdfunding. Having done that, raising that money for creative projects.
[00:35:26] What has been your biggest takeaways about what really resonates with backers on these platforms?
[00:35:31] Lisa Ferland: The 99 percent of the work is happening in the pre launch phase. So do not rush through that process. Do not just get excited and hurry up to launch because you have a deadline that you think you need to hit, or because you have a themed month that you think is important. What's much more important is engaging with your backers before you launch so that they are eager and excited and they know what's coming and they know what to do.
[00:35:55] So the pre launch phase is all about testing the messaging that works. And then you just repeat that type of messaging when your campaign is live. So if you haven't had enough time to test and really look at the numbers and see what's performing, you're just going to be kind of scrambling when your campaign is live and you're going to feel lost and frustrated.
[00:36:14] So I would definitely focus most of the effort during the pre launch phase entirely. And then that's what resonates with people during the campaign is that you've already done all the work you see. "Okay, my, my audience loves funny videos of me and my toys or my audience really loves inspirational posts on Instagram, like whatever it is you know it, and then you can repeat that process when your campaign is live.
[00:36:38] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: How do you actually know that your prelaunch is going well?
[00:36:42] Lisa Ferland: Number of people signing up on your teaser page. How many people do you have following your project? How many emails have you gathered? What are people saying in the comments of your social media? Are they like, "Oh, I can't wait.", "Oh, I've shared." Are they tagging their friends? You can kind of sense the energy.
[00:36:55] Are people giving you positive feedback? Are they silent? If you post something and you get no feedback you need to pivot and try again.
[00:37:03] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So interesting. Cause there's such a clear defining moment of what, if your launch is going well, how many people are backing you, how much money you've raised in certain amount of time, but how do you know your pre launch is going well is even a number that I don't actually look at enough, but I guess I would look at signups.
[00:37:19] And engagement, but interesting. Okay. Our final questions for you today we actually started something new on this podcast where we have our guests prepare question for our next guest without knowing who they are. So we had a guest, Aaron Murdoch from Crazy Aaron's, prepare this question that you're going to get today.
[00:37:35] And this question is going to be adapted for you a little bit. If you weren't an author, what would you be?
[00:37:42] Lisa Ferland: That's a good question. Cause I wasn't always an author. I've already worn a number of career hats in my life. If I wasn't an author, I would definitely be I'll go back to when I was a rock climbing instructor
[00:37:55] And a hike leader. I know it was very outdoorsy focused on nature.
[00:38:00] Like I would love to run like a nature center at some park at a national park or a state park. That'd be fun.
[00:38:06] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Very cool. And my favorite question, what toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:38:12] Lisa Ferland: I loved Baby Alive that came with like the food and bottle and the diapers.
[00:38:19] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: And yes, I remember her. I love her too.
[00:38:22] Lisa Ferland: Like, looking back on it, it was a gross toy, like, like, she eats it,
[00:38:26] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: And she poops.
[00:38:27] Lisa Ferland: And she poops. It goes through her system, but I loved it because it allowed me to be, like, play mom. Like, I wanted to play mom. I was 10 years old when I had her and this was before,
[00:38:38] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Wait, you just said 'when I had her' sounded like you had her. Like when
[00:38:42] Lisa Ferland: No, when I gave birth to Baby Alive. But I remember, and I think I have a picture of me holding her cause she was very stiff. I have a picture of me and yeah, I just absolutely loved Baby Alive. And I think they recalled her because the mouth ended up eating a lot of the girl's hair and like ripping the hair out of the scalp.
[00:39:01] So I think they recalled the initial version of the toy in typical early nineties fashion. They're like, this is too dangerous. We didn't test this everything we played with.
[00:39:09] Yeah. It was not safe. But then my own daughter, I think I got the second version or whatever and iteration they have of Baby Alive. I got a reboot for her.
[00:39:19] And she played with it. I think I played with it more than she did. I was like, I love it. This is my favorite toy. And she was " okay, it's fine."
[00:39:24] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: She didn't care about it?
[00:39:26] Lisa Ferland: No, she did not care. It was not the same, but
[00:39:27] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: She's like, this is weirdly sexist. And I don't,
[00:39:30] Lisa Ferland: She poops, mom.
[00:39:31] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: She's like, "That's so weird, Mom. Why would you want play?" I, too, love the Baby Alive. And I actually think I remember my mom being like, "You want this?" And I was like, "Yes! Please tell Santa."
[00:39:44] Lisa Ferland: Toys back then were gross though. I mean, we had like the garbage pail kids or what were those? We had some really gross toys. So a baby doll that pooped, that was normal. That was natural. That was totally fine. Okay.
[00:39:55] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Oh my gosh. That's so great. Okay. Lisa, I want you to leave a question for our next guest. You don't know who the guest is going to be. What is your question for our next guest?
[00:40:05] Lisa Ferland: Oh, okay. What has been the most surprising experience in your career so far?
[00:40:12] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Ooh, I'm writing this down. thank you so much for this. Oh, wow. Oh man, Lisa, this has been a great conversation. I'm sure people are scrambling to write notes. Don't worry. We are also going to do a blog post recap of this cause it was that good. In our chat today, we discussed everything from the strategies behind launching a successful crowdfunding campaign, to choosing the right platform for yourself, to how Lisa helps her authors promote their products and keep their audience engaged with creative rewards. We also talked about sustaining long term success beyond the campaign.
[00:40:47] If you love this podcast and you haven't already left us a review, what are you waiting for? Your reviews keep me an amazing guest like Lisa coming back week after week. And every time a new review comes in, I get notified and it puts a huge smile on my face as always. Thank you so much for spending this time with me today.
[00:41:04] I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one until next week. We'll see you later. Toy people. Bye.
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