#243: Vendors VS Sales Reps: A Storytelling Sales Showdown with Tres Patten and Rachel Jones
Ever wondered how to truly captivate buyers in the toy industry? Or why do some sales pitches fall flat even when the product is amazing?
In today’s episode, we will talk about the magic of storytelling in the toy industry! We’ll cover how sales reps and vendors approach things differently, plus the secrets to crafting pitches that go beyond a quick sale and build lasting customer relationships. Discover how storytelling can be the key to success in this highly competitive toy market.
Join us in this storytelling showdown with our guests, Tres Patton and Rachel Jones! Tres reveals techniques for crafting a compelling brand story, while Rachel discusses the importance of seeing through a child's eyes and building long-term relationships. Learn the art of maintaining passion, educating retail partners, and ensuring your product stands out. This episode is a must-listen for anyone in toy sales who’s ready to level up through the art of storytelling!
Listen For These Important Moments
02:26 The Storytelling Face-Off Begins
05:49 Defining Storytelling in Sales
06:53 Building Trust Through Product Experience
14:30 Adapting Storytelling for Tough Sales
18:26 Understanding the Roles: Vendor vs. Sales Rep
25:38 Rediscovering Passion in Sales
26:08 Navigating the Emotional Rollercoaster of Sales
26:50 Balancing Work and Personal Life
28:42 The Importance of Flexibility in Sales
31:32 Building Relationships Through Storytelling
36:26 When Storytelling Falls Flat
41:32 Favorite Toys of Tres and Rachel
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
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[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: You are listening to Making It In The Toy Industry, episode number 243. Hey there, toy people! Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of Making It In The Toy Industry.
[00:00:29] This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Now, creating a toy is usually the best part of the whole toy creation process. It's fun, it's exciting, it's the part that draws everybody in, the actual making of the product. But after creating that toy, you have got to sell it. And that's where today's topic comes in.
[00:00:48] We're going to talk about storytelling, the secret sauce behind every great sales pitch. But here's the twist on our episode today. Who does storytelling better? Is it the vendor or is it the sales rep? So to help us find out, I've brought in two heavyweights from each side of the ring. In one corner, representing the vendors, we've got Tres Patten, director of sales for Djeco.
[00:01:10] Tres's got a story of his own. He went from running a restaurant to chasing startup dreams in the tech world, only to find his true passion in the toy industry. Inspired by his daughter, Tres's been bringing the stories of Djeco's products to life, making sure that each one has the power to captivate buyers.
[00:01:29] Now, in the other corner, representing our sales reps, it's Rachel Jones from Sandy Ruben and Associates, with a staggering 27 years of toy industry experience, Rachel is all about seeing the magic of every product through a child's eyes. Her goal is to connect with retailers and transform every pitch into an adventure, making sure each toy shines.
[00:01:49] Welcome to the ring, you two.
[00:01:51] Rachel Jones: Thank you for having us today.
[00:01:54] Tres Patten: It's weird. I'd like to point out that based on that math, Rachel must've started in the industry when she was like five.
[00:02:00] Rachel Jones: , No. I do have to correct that. I've been in the retail industry for 27 years. I've only been in the toy industry for 10. I did own a store, but it was not in the toy industry.
[00:02:14] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So with a staggering 27 years of retail industry experience, 10 years in the toy industry. Got it. Thank you for clarifying that. Cause we were like, what? Rachel started as a fetus. So this is going to be a storytelling face off like no other. Who's got the better approach when it comes to making those toy sales.
[00:02:34] I want to keep this a clean fight. No low blows, you know, just some insider sales tips. Rachel's shaking her head like there's going to be some low blows.
[00:02:43] Rachel Jones: Look who I have in my corner.
[00:02:46] I got my man.
[00:02:47] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: For those of you listening to the episode, Rachel in her background literally has, and this was not planned, a poster of Muhammad Ali. What fight is that?
[00:02:55] Rachel Jones: That's versus Sonny Liston in 1965. I have a signature. He was actually one of my customers when I owned a store.
[00:03:04] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Oh, word. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah. well, this is perfect. It was the perfect photo for this fight today. Rachel, I want to start with you with our opening question. Finish this sentence for me. The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was...
[00:03:19] Rachel Jones: how small the community it is. I mean, if you've been in the industry for a few years, it's kind of like the Kevin Bacon's [Six] Degrees of Separation, everyone knows each other. That was the most shocking thing. And the other most shocking thing is that. because i'm a sales rep you end up getting every line. I have 102 lines that I represent right now And I think I've probably represented 300 or more.
[00:03:49] So you just become a big family So I love that the toy industry is a family.
[00:03:53] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Awesome. And Tres, same question. The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was...
[00:03:59] Tres Patten: So, I agree with Rachel. I think my first response was definitely going to be the smallness and the closeness of it. The other thing that's interesting tying to today's conversation about stories is the amount of people who've kind of forgotten why we're here. I think that to me is the other one, right?
[00:04:17] Like we see the same people and you know, I'm fortunate enough to have come to this later in life. So I've chosen to foster that sense of "wow" and maintained it. But I do think one thing that really shocked me was how many people seem to have come here for the right reasons and then lost the "wow" and they forgot that the end of the day, what we're doing is we're making fun, right? So I think that's an important thing to keep an eye on.
[00:04:41] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Sad point, but good point.
[00:04:43] Tres Patten: I know. Right. How come you got the fun one and I got the sad one?
[00:04:46] Rachel Jones: I mean, Tres, you are right in that fact. When I first started, my kids were little, so they brought the magic to all the toys. And then when they got older, I'm like, how do I keep the magic going? So I have a neighborhood of 83 homes. We're in a circle. I just have them come over and they go through my garage all the time.
[00:05:08] And I just love to see the magic. It makes everything come back to life and it keeps you young and not having the adult view on the toys that we're selling.
[00:05:18] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: You know, when I was in school for toy design, we had a required semester where we had to volunteer at the school and we were just kind of helping and playing with kids. And that gave us such new perspective on "Oh, this is what we're doing this for." And maybe that's something that companies encourage their employees to do, right? Like maybe we need to volunteer at schools. And remember, this is who you're making this for. As much as we're making it for the Targets and Walmart buyers, we're making it for the kids. You know, that's a great point.
[00:05:46] So let's move on to storytelling and sales.
[00:05:49] So I want to know, how do you, Tres, define storytelling in your specific role? How does it show up in your role?
[00:05:56] Tres Patten: Yeah. I mean, I would say everything, regardless of sale role in sales is storytelling, right? Like you're telling somebody a story. I think that how I specifically define it in my role, Is I think we're going to get to this a little bit later, but there's sort of a delineation between product related storytelling and brand related storytelling.
[00:06:17] And I feel like I do both in my role because I have to look at not only the specific product that we're focusing or that we're selling in that exact moment, but also how does that relate to the story of the brand and how is there a through line? Right? So for me, it's not just about the individual product.
[00:06:35] It's the continuity of how that product ties into the overall narrative that I'm depicting at a very high level.
[00:06:43] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So it's like the storytelling within the the product line.
[00:06:46] Tres Patten: Exactly.
[00:06:47] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: And Rachel, same question. Like, how would you define storytelling in your role? How does it apply to your role as a sales rep?
[00:06:53] Rachel Jones: I feel if you have an experience with each toy, and you can convey that to the buyer so say I, I got Bumpus in the mail, which is this really cool weighted plush.
[00:07:05] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Oh yeah. Um, Like the one that kids wear like a backpack.
[00:07:09] Rachel Jones: It's so cool. but the way that I always try to get a story is testing it on myself, my kids in the neighborhood, employees that some of my stores like what was their response who liked it who didn't why did they like it? Why didn't they like it? And then I do kind of a 50- 50 on that. If kids aren't wanting to play with it any longer than after we've opened it and started, I think a 50 50, half of the kids like it, half of it don't because not every kid's the same but I try to have a story with each product. It's a lot of work to do that though.
[00:07:43] It's a lot of work to know all your products. I have 102 lines. So it's a lot of work up front, but in the end, you know that you have trust with your customers And the consumer's gonna like it. So I need to know the consumer, the kids are gonna like it.
[00:07:59] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Okay. We were at a board meeting cause we were on the Astra board together and you had said this once, Rachel, that people need to bring up stories that they have with their products to help the buyers connect to the product. That is so brilliant. But what I'm hearing now is you don't just do that for products that you naturally have stories with, "Oh, I just happen to have this product or a friend or family happened to have this product.", but you actually make an effort to go out and create stories by engaging with that product, with your family members or other kids in the neighborhood.
[00:08:30] That's like going the extra mile as a sales rep. I'm feeling like Rachel might win this round. I don't, I,
[00:08:36] Rachel Jones: No You know what? i'm not gonna i'm not gonna lie. It wasn't actually natural. I got burned once. I listened to everyone around me and they told me a product was good. And I got burned. It ended up being not a great product. Had I played with it, had my kids played with it, I would have known that it didn't work before I sold it to my customer.
[00:08:59] So from that, I don't trust anyone what they're telling me. I don't care. And this was a hot product in 2014. Shame on the manufacturer, but I will never fall for that again. I don't care if it has won awards. I need to know for fact, this product is a good product. I just won't, I don't take anyone's word for it.
[00:09:21] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Oh, that's a good one. it wasn't,
[00:09:23] Rachel Jones: I didn't naturally come up with that on my own.
[00:09:26] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah, no that's a great lesson. I had that same experience. I took on a client and just I just trusted. Same. Trusted awards and accolades. And then I found out and I was like, "Oh, whoops." So, yeah, no, that's great. Gotta do that homework. All right, let's keep going. So Rachel, you'd emphasize that seeing a product through a child's eyes.
[00:09:44] Can you share an example of how you use story to connect a product to a store owner or to a buyer?
[00:09:51] Rachel Jones: Well, I have two really good examples. I mean I have a ton of examples, but there was a manufacturer I kind of wrote off. I didn't really love their packaging. I knew it was a good product, but I didn't really think that kids were gonna like it. I went on a work trip and my mom was in charge of my kids and I said, "Hey, they can play with it whatever they want."
[00:10:13] It was called Aquarellum . It's got little lines on it and the kids can't make mistakes with it. It just blends and it's got lines on it, so it makes its own picture. Anyways, I didn't think it was a great product. I'm not gonna lie. The owner knows that.
[00:10:29] I came back and I have two boys and a girl, they went through a stack this thick of that product. My mom said they were obsessed with it.
[00:10:38] They wouldn't stop. So then I was like, "Wow, maybe I'm not listening or paying attention." So I got to see it through my kids eyes why they love that product.
[00:10:47] I mean, it's a great product. The packaging, I've always said it could be a little better, but I'm kind of a packaging snob because if you don't have people on the floor selling, it's got to sell from the package, but seeing things through kids eyes... I have hundreds of products that I would have never thought a kid would like. I've had hundreds of products I thought kids would go crazy for, and it's not. So, just watching them play with it without me helping them, you get to see the joy in their face. I did a Girl Scout thing where they were doing toy invention and I got to see them play with the toys we already had.
[00:11:27] It was kind of like a preemptive thing. I got to see the magic with them playing with say, Mad Matter. They'd never seen that before. And just seeing the joy "Wow, that was a solid. And now when I pull it apart, it almost melts." That's amazing. And just, if you just listen to kids you'll see the magic.
[00:11:46] You kind of stay young through that.
[00:11:49] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I love that. That’s really great. Tres, coming from a tech-startup world, how did you adapt storytelling techniques when you transitioned into the toy industry?[00:11:58] Tres Patten: Yeah, it's interesting. So, it's almost like cheating being in the toy industry.
[00:12:00] Tres Patten: Because, in the tech world, a lot of what we're selling, I used to say we were hopes and dreams salespeople, right? Because especially in the SaaS space, you're selling the idea of a solution to a problem that often you're inventing.
[00:12:13] And so a lot of the discovery and the actual sales aspect is I'm calling you and I'm like, "Hey, do you have such and such a problem?" and you either say yes or no. And then my job is to figure out how I'm selling you the solution to that. So it's all about narrative, right? Then I get to the toy world and it's here's this awesome thing that you physically interface and play with.
[00:12:33] Now go sell this and it's " Oh man, this is amazing.", right? I just like Rachel said, don't undersell yourself on that Rachel. Cause I feel like you've kind of tried to do that a little bit, but getting the actual buy in from kids or seeing how kids play with stuff. I know we have a lot of inventors who listened to this and here's some unsolicited advice I will give to you guys.
[00:12:55] Keep an open mind when you're dealing with your sales team and watching kids play. A lot of times, some of the coolest things that I've seen and how we've ended up selling things like the sound bites that we use, it was not the original design intent of the toy, right? But a kid picked it up and was like, Oh my gosh, this is going to be amazing for X, Y, Z.
[00:13:17] And then we watched the kid do it. And it was like,
[00:13:22] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah,
[00:13:23] Tres Patten: Like, that's a crawling toy. You know, maybe we'd foreseen it being something completely else. Or, you know, it was like, "Oh, this is going to be a fidget" and then they started playing with it and it became, you know, something entirely different.
[00:13:35] A role play toy. Those are ludicrous examples, but you know what I mean? Like it's having that open mind and being open to creating the narrative or telling the story based on what you're seeing the story be, not the preconceived notion of what the story should be. And that, I think that lesson that I learned in the tech world is it was going in and letting the customer tell me what the story they needed to hear was, and it's that in the toy industry, that's what I've brought is the ability to listen to my buyer or listen to my target audience and hear what they want to buy, and then tell the story about that.
[00:14:12] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Such a good lesson. I teach the same thing. I did that incorrectly. When I launched my costume company, people tell me how they wanted to buy it and what they want it to be. And I'd be like "Yeah, but I have this vision." and you lose so much momentum in sales if you don't listen to what your customers want.
[00:14:28] It's so much easier if you just give them what they want. Okay. All right. I got a question for both of you. How do you adapt your storytelling when you're in a situation where you have a tough sell where someone clearly doesn't want to buy? Maybe they've already spent their dollars for that quarter or they just heard things about the product.
[00:14:43] They're just like, not that into or they don't think it fits their demo. What do you change about how you tell a story to make that sale? Tres, let's start with you.
[00:14:52]
[00:14:55] Tres Patten: Yeah, no, I can elaborate on that as it's like, I think that it really depends on what you're, going for. Like, if you're looking for just a sheerly transactional style sale, then sure. I can give you tips for, you know, putting the product in the person's hands. They have the sense of ownership and then you tie it to an anecdotal story about the emotional attachment they have to that physical product. And if they've told you they don't have the money or whatever, you know, and they're not interested, then sure, you can get that one time sale. But to me, at the end of the day, you run the risk of burning the bridge, right?
[00:15:27] And kind of going back to what I was just talking about, you tell the story. Our job is to find the story that people want to hear. And to me, establishing a longer term relationship with somebody by hearing their story is more important than me selling one product one time. I call it scorched earth sales.
[00:15:44] I tell people I can sell anything to anybody once but if that one time I burn a bridge, I can't go back across that bridge. Right? So, I mean, I guess long answer to a relatively simple question is I would encourage people to not force somebody to buy something by tricking them with a cool story. Like you can, and if you want tips for that, hit me up offline, but I would say don't do that.
[00:16:12] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Rachel, what are thinking?
[00:16:14] Rachel Jones: I 100 percent agree with Tres. If there's one thing that is the most important thing to me is my relationship with my customer over everything. We're business partners. I want their store to flourish and my job is to put the best products in their store.
[00:16:31] I will say, a technique you could use is just show it to them and say, "Hey, I know you don't have any more money. I do wanna show you how cool this is for next time, just so that we went over it and then you can just see, and then most of the time they're like, "Oh, dang, that is really cool. Oh, I do have money for this."
[00:16:51] So, I always say I don't care if you buy anything for me today, I'm going to show you the best selling stuff I have right now that you haven't seen before. We go through it and then they curate it based on you know, "I have three thousand dollars. This is all I can afford and this is how we're going to curate it." And trust is the number one thing you can get and selling is the least important thing when you're creating trust.
[00:17:16] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yes. Yes.
[00:17:17] Tres Patten: Hundred percent. And Azhelle, something I wanted to emphasize that Rachel mentioned there is don't underestimate the power of a demo. Whether you're a sales rep or an inventor trying to get your product out there, if you know something is good, let the customer create their own story, right?
[00:17:34] I can tell you my story about how I play with my product with my kids, but giving somebody the power to create their own stories with a demo that you know in your heart of hearts is going to just rock
[00:17:46] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: You're making me think even in my own journey of learning to sell my services and my digital programs, I had to learn that lesson of if someone doesn't want to buy, if they're not ready to buy, the most important thing from that point on is just Build a relationship because that, like you said, you want to build a long term relationship.
[00:18:03] They might come back in a year from now, two years from now, and they might be a diehard customer at that time. That's better than trying to force it. Like you said, Tres, right now. It's not about that. Even in the toy sales, it sounds like you want to build a long term relationship and they don't want to buy now. That sucks. You might have a hard time meeting your, you know, your revenue goals, but it's better that you plan for a longer term relationship in the future. That's such great advice. Thank you guys. So Tres, as a vendor, and we should clarify if you don't mind for a moment, your role as a working in sales for a vendor, how does that differ from what Rachel does as a sales rep for those that are like emerging in the toy industry?
[00:18:38] Okay.
[00:18:38] Rachel Jones: I can't wait to hear this.
[00:18:40] Tres Patten: Well, the difference is Rachel's job is way harder.
[00:18:44] Rachel Jones: Oh, it is a lot of work. I don't know. I've never done your job. So I literally can't say it. I feel like you do a lot more spreadsheets and...
[00:18:53] Tres Patten: We probably do. Yeah. So that's probably accurate. No. Okay. Great. Great question. So I don't want to start too high level and explain stuff to people that they already know, but so effectively when you're talking to a vendor and you're talking about being a director of sales, most of the time, what that's referring to is wholesale business.
[00:19:09] So B2B, right? There is a lot of times there's a component of a direct to consumer, but not really as much. And I think that's true probably for Rachel as well. So both of us are talking about dealing with business to business sales. So like that, that up front, you know, when we talk about consumer, a lot of times we're talking about research that we've done ourselves or that our companies have done, not because we're selling directly to consumers.
[00:19:35] And then in terms of what my job is, and I think I generally mentioned this before is I oversee one specific brand. So, Djeco, right? That's my home base, right? So I live and breathe one specific brand, which is a pro and a con from a storytelling point of view. Perspective, right? My job is to create the narrative around what makes Djeco unique, right?
[00:19:57] Like we feature specific artists, you know, it's, we're putting children in touch with fine arts through crafts and, you know, baby products. And I mean, we have a whole story and that's my job. And the difference between what I do and what Rachel does is Rachel can walk into a store, which she's going to be a lot more familiar with.
[00:20:15] And I'm not going to tell you how she does her job, but if someone says " Hey, I hate Djeco." which..
[00:20:20] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: No one would ever.
[00:20:21] Tres Patten: But
[00:20:22] she has the opportunity to be like, "Okay, well, you're wrong, but here's another line." If someone says that to me, I don't have that luxury.
[00:20:30] Rachel Jones: That's true.
[00:20:31] Tres Patten: And so I think that is kind of a big difference in overall approach but Rachel has a little bit more flexibility in terms of being able to go back into her bag. You know, I have one bag and that's my job.
[00:20:43] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: That's a great explanation. That's great. So, to continue on that now, when you have one brand and you have to build your sales story around those brand's mission statement. How do you balance doing that with coming off as personal that, you know, you personally really do this brand and getting buyers to know it's not just cause you work for this brand.
[00:21:06] You're not just hired and it's not just about being hired. It's about you really care and believe in it. How do you balance that?
[00:21:11] Tres Patten: I think. You kind of just hit the nail on the head of what makes sales hard. And I think the number one advice that I could give to anyone is live your own truth, which I mean, that's just, in my opinion, great advice, regardless of setting, but specifically in sales.
[00:21:29] Right. And so what works for me, what I'm about to tell you works for me. It may not work for you. And that was really hard lesson for me. Coming into the sales life in general, right? Like I had a lot of really strong, powerful female mentors and some of the things that worked for them from a sales perspective as a man, I just, I couldn't get away with the tonality or the verbiage that they were able to use.
[00:21:53] So it was a lot of well, how do I adopt this and adapt this for myself?
[00:21:56] Rachel Jones: I mean, you can't be like, "Oh, it's so cute and glittery and whimsical." If you said that, I'd be like, "Tres..."
[00:22:05] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: "Who gave you that script?",
[00:22:08] Rachel Jones: Do you like glitter? It's okay to like glitter.
[00:22:11] Tres Patten: I like glitter a lot. I have a four year old little princess, so
[00:22:14] Rachel Jones: Yeah, glitter is awesome.
[00:22:15] Tres Patten: I'm all about the cuteness. But no, so, okay, so how do I build a brand? And, you know, I think the other thing to look at is I'm passionate about the companies that I work for. And that's really important to me. There are salespeople who I would argue are better salespeople than I am because they can sell anything.
[00:22:32] I could, if I had to, but I don't want to. And so I don't, right. So I'm fortunate, you know, very fortunate that I had the opportunity to select companies within the toy industry that I did feel and do feel extremely passionately about because otherwise you're just like, I'm not the kind of person who's going to find satisfaction and joy from faking passion, you know?
[00:22:55] And so, being actually passionate about Djeco and just watching the joy on my children's faces and watching the joy on my nieces and nephews faces and seeing them discover, you know, fine art or, you know, my 18 month old, you know, doing an 18 month old craft and watching him discover that he can color just like his big sister.
[00:23:15] Right? Like that to me is what gets me out of bed in the morning and it's I can share that passion, that joy with somebody. So I guess I'm not really creating a story. I'm just sharing, I'm sharing my truth and hopefully I'm in an enticing enough way that other people want to have a portion of that truth.
[00:23:34] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: No, that's great. It prompted something else we'll get into after I go to Rachel with this. Rachel, with your background as a store owner, how do you think storytelling differs by sales reps versus vendors? In terms of connecting with customers.
[00:23:48] Rachel Jones: think because I own the store, I am very careful on what I'm selling my stores. I know how stressful owning a store is. And I know what I didn't like in a sales rep. So I vowed I won't be the opposite of a bad sales rep Just tell me the truth. Again, everything comes back to being honest. I agree with Tres, I only sell things I truly believe in I have 102 lines.
[00:24:18] I don't have to sell anything I am very lucky to have a boss that is not pushy He lets us sell what we believe in and products that are great. It does help storytelling because I know what I didn't want to hear from a sales rep and what I did want to hear. I'd have sales reps come in my store trying to sell me napkins.
[00:24:38] I was like, did you look around my store? Do you not know? Did you not do any research before you got here? I always look if I have a new account, I look on Facebook, I get there early, I go through the store and I'm like, "Okay, so the vibe of this store is this. I'm not gonna try to sell them stuff."
[00:24:58] I know they're not gonna want so it just helps to say hey, you know, I'm lucky in the fact. I have museums. I have beach shops. I have toy stores. I have boutiques I have a variety of different stores and I don't peg people into "Oh, you're a museum store These are the lines you'd want." I look to see what their upcoming exhibits are and I try to go based on that.
[00:25:23] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So from that. You guys both inspired a totally different, we're going to take it a different direction. But now I want to talk a little bit about struggles and sales. So this is a question to both of you when you're, let's say, just feeling down, like you're just like not in a good place emotionally.
[00:25:38] One thing that we were passionate about at one point, all of a sudden you just don't love the brand for whatever reason, maybe the brand's changing. Maybe you're emotionally changing, but you still have to put food on the table. You still gotta sell the product. How do you push through? What helps you come back to the passion?
[00:25:56] Do you change jobs? Do you have a new account? What is some advice you might give for someone in sales that right now is just struggling with their passion so they can really sell better? Who wants to take that first?
[00:26:07] Tres Patten: I'll take a stab at it, but I think, fundamentally what you just hit on is the crux of every salesperson, right? I mean, being in sales is just a rollercoaster. It's just a mental, emotional rollercoaster. The highs are higher than anywhere else and the lows are lower than anywhere else.
[00:26:26] And it's like you become kind of junkie, right? Like you chase that's that vibe.
[00:26:31] Rachel Jones: That’s funny. That’s true.
[00:26:33] You know what I mean? Like it's just that rush when like you have that product and you're like, "Oh my God, this is going to change the world." and then you ride that roller coaster for as long as you can.
[00:26:43] And then, you know, the next one just isn't there. It's a challenge. It's one thing for me that was really challenging. And this was something I was not able to do in the tech world really is like, is just disconnect to some degree and have a life outside of work and realize that the passion that fuels your work should be your life, not the other way around.
[00:27:06] Right. And so, I mean, a lot of you, anybody listening to this podcast has probably heard me tell this version or some version of the story, but how I ended up where I am right now is I was in the tech industry and I didn't really want to be there. It was just, I followed money and I just, at some point somebody told me to grow up, right?
[00:27:24] Get a real job. And so I did. And I stopped trying to be in toys and games, but it's where I always wanted to be. And I found out my wife was having a little girl and I wanted to be the kind of dad that could tell their daughter to do whatever she wanted to do and follow her dreams. But I was a hypocrite, right?
[00:27:38] I wasn't doing it. I hated my job. I hated the industry. I hated the products I was selling. I didn't believe in it. You know, I would close a deal and I would be depressed because I was worried that it wasn't the right fit for that person. And so I was at the bottom and what I did is I found a way to pair my passion with what I'm doing now. Again, I realized that's, it's not a luxury and opportunity that a lot of people have, but it goes back to what I said in the very beginning, right? It's remember where we are, remember what we do. So even if we have a product that we don't believe in as strongly as another one, it's what not going to make a kid as happy as the happiest point that they could be like, that's still a pretty awesome problem.
[00:28:21] So I don't know. I feel like I just, I politicked you where I talked around your
[00:28:25] Rachel Jones: Oh, you did it. You did a good job. You did a good.
[00:28:28] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Yeah, Rachel
[00:28:29] Tres Patten: Thanks. This isn't much of a fight. We're agreeing way too much.
[00:28:32] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: No. No. is I'm keeping score on the backend.
[00:28:35] we agree. You'll hear who won this and then we'll move to the next round. Okay, go on.
[00:28:41] Rachel Jones: Okay. Okay. So I will say that the best part of this job is the flexibility. I mean, maybe, Tres, you don't have as much flexibility as me, but I get to make my schedule. So I will say January, February, March, part of April, it is a grind. I'd say January, I work 18 hours or more a day. All of January, my family knows. Same with July but when we have downtime, it is downtime. So by the time I am like burnt out, I mean, I am toast. I've been traveling for four months. That is when generally the toy industry slows down. So you get a couple months where it's you're, you know, you're answering emails.
[00:29:24] Everyone's seen everything that's new. And you get kind of a reprieve until Astra which is in June. And then you're on the grind from June, July, August, September. This year people kind of drug their feet because the economy's not good this year, which yes this has been an awful year. So late. Thank you for bringing that up but so now people are waiting.
[00:29:45] I still have people I have to see next week. I'm normally done on the road by middle of October, maybe December. I mean, Halloween. So this year just it's crazy. I would say there, I have my dad passed away four years ago. And I think the best advice for people that are in a situation like that, where you've had some awful life changing thing where you actually can't manage. It's good to be human because you know, Hey, I'm having a hard time. Luckily I've been in this industry long enough at that point that I could say, "Hey, I'm really sorry. I'm not as great as I normally am. I'm trying to feel better." And I think it's human. And with that, that just makes your relationship even better.
[00:30:31] Even though, I mean, I try to not get too deep into that because there's nothing worse than someone that's supposed to be helping you and they're, you know, the store's helping me. And that's shouldn't cross that too much. But it's okay to have lows in the toy industry because there are highs and lows throughout the year,
[00:30:51] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Love it. Thank you. Do you want to know your score for this round?
[00:30:54] Rachel Jones: Oh, well we haven't, how many rounds have we had?
[00:30:57] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: This is one round. We're only going to do two.
[00:30:59] So we have, right now, we have Rachel with 10 points and Tres in the lead with 12 points. Okay, let's move on to round two.
[00:31:09] Tres Patten: What's that improv show that they used to have where they would just arbitrarily assign points at the end of the skit? Do you remember that?
[00:31:15] Rachel Jones: I do know that.
[00:31:16]
[00:31:16] Tres Patten: "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"
[00:31:18] Rachel Jones: Yeah, I love that show.
[00:31:20] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: We're moving on.
[00:31:21] Tres Patten: right.
[00:31:21] Rachel Jones: I'm gonna be authentic. I'm not trying to win. I'm trying to be authentic and answer the questions. Okay?
[00:31:27] Tres Patten: Don't lie. You're in sales. You're always trying to win.
[00:31:29] Rachel Jones: Ha ha ha Ha!
[00:31:32] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: We're gonna move on to topic two, building relationships through storytelling. This is a question to both of you. Actually, no, we're going to, we're going to break this up. We're going to Tres first. How do you leverage storytelling to build long term relationships with retailers to ensure that Djeco products stand out? Hmm. He's like, all right
[00:31:52] keep your lead, man.
[00:31:53] Rachel Jones: Oh God. Rachel, back to you!
[00:31:55] Tres Patten: There's two questions buried in there, right? So from a manufacturer sales perspective, there really is kind of two aspects to what you just asked. There's the long term relationships with me and there's a long term relationship with the brand. And my job is to navigate both.
[00:32:10] Right. And so the long term relationship with the customers and kind of Rachel just hit on this a little bit with her last thing talking about being human is there is an aspect of that, right? Is you know, people want to work with people that they like. Or that are at least humans, and so there is the aspect of, you know, Rachel and reps in general have the luxury, not that it's not a ton of work, but they're in territory.
[00:32:35] And so they get to go in and they get to see their customers, you know, relatively frequently as a vendor. I interface with my reps often via email or phone, but I only really see my customers. twice a year at shows, or if I'm fortunate enough to do a site visit or a ride along with a rep. So to me, building the relationship through stories, it's a lot of catching up from a personal perspective.
[00:32:59] Hey, how's it going? Tell me about your life. What's working? What's not? There's that aspect. Then there's the Djeco aspect. Which is the let me tell you about the brand. Let me tell you what's new. Tell me about your store. Right? And so it's building the story together for what is and is not going to work with them.
[00:33:17] And a lot of what sales managers do or should do is let's say I don't have the blessing of working with Rachel, but let's pretend for a second I did. So if I'm in a booth and Rachel comes in with a customer, she knows them. And so we can work together to build a story that makes the most sense for that customer because I can share the specific brand story for, "Hey, this is what's new.
[00:33:39] This is what's going on." And Rachel can feed me cues or feed me information about "Hey, that's not going to work for that customer." And then steer me towards an aspect of the brand, you know, like Djeco, we cover everything from toys to lifestyle, to arts and crafts. I mean, we have a huge range, right? So not everybody who walks into our booth is going to be looking for an umbrella, right?
[00:34:03] But they could be. And so the rep is going to help me build the story for how I positioned that. And that is, Kind of how I do that, so
[00:34:11] it sounded like a cop out, I think, but there really is two separate answers there for how you build a relationship.
[00:34:16] Rachel Jones: You're winning. Stop. Stop right now.
[00:34:19] I
[00:34:20] Tres Patten: Kendra told me to be humble. I'm going to do it.
[00:34:23] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So Rachel, have you ever trained or guided other sales reps on doing more storytelling in their pitches? Do you have any advice for someone who's looking to figure out their unique voice integrating this? They want to make sure they come off as authentic and they are authentic.
[00:34:38] Rachel Jones: I work with 19 sales reps in our rep group. So I worked for a rep group and I try to always take them under my wing and kind of help them see like the importance of having experiences with products. So when we're at shows, I always say "Hey, your main objective at a show like Toy Fair or Astra is really to go around."
[00:35:01] A lot of people want to sell to their customers. I actually don't believe in that. I am there to learn that product, inside all the new products inside out. So then when I go to our show in July in Atlanta, then I know the product, I have experience with it. If a customer does want to work with me at either of those shows, obviously I'm going to work with them but I like to have experience. If you know, you're not going to get a demo product, make cool videos at Toy Fair, at Astra. Or in our showroom so that when you're working with someone, say it's an expensive product At least you have a video of what makes this product different because for me I think I have a hundred thousand toys. So the toys that jump out are the winners the ones that wow This is different than anything i've ever seen obviously a toy store and any store needs to have staples, you know classic items but it's good to teach the younger kids and it's not always younger because I'm in a couple of mastermind rep groups and a lot of them don't realize that you do have to play with the products I mean we work in the best industry in the world.
[00:36:12] We get to get paid to play with toys. Are you serious?
[00:36:16] Like I always try to tell people I'm like Tom Hanks and big. Okay I have the best life. I mean, I can't complain.
[00:36:24] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So this last, this question is for both of you. When does storytelling fall flat? Are there times that it just doesn't work? Do you have advice for what to do instead? Who wants to take it first? Tres, go ahead.
[00:36:34] Tres Patten: Yeah, I'll hit on that. And I kind of touched on this a little bit with some earlier questions as well, but it's I'm sure you guys probably heard the advice. It's listening to respond instead of listening to understand. I think that there's an aspect of that in storytelling, specifically sales related storytelling.
[00:36:50] Right. And I think storytelling falls flat when you have your story cued up in your barrel, ready to just fire at the face of whoever walks in, regardless of what they want to hear, right? And I think that is probably the number one storytelling mistake. I always tell people that I'm training is like the number one way to kill a sale is to keep talking.
[00:37:14] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I literally have to mute myself on calls. I mute myself because then it gives me like time to realize I'm trying to talk too much. I just mute. Oh man.
[00:37:25] Tres Patten: Yeah, I mean I'm, I love the sound of your voice, so I'll talk all day, you know, but
[00:37:29] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: That is such good advice. It is the fastest way to kill a sale. Rachel, what do you say? When does storytelling fall flat?
[00:37:35] Rachel Jones: I think it can happen when you have too many lines. So it's okay, I got two hours with someone, that's the most amount I can do. I try to not push it. If you push someone too, like you've been with them too long. They're exhausted. Let's just break it up.
[00:37:53] I like to break it up with things they need. So like I show them new stuff, but then I stop at a place. Hey, do you need to reorder this? So it's good to break it up. Break up the sale. Even have breaks where you're talking personally "Hey, how's Travis doing in college?" You know, it's important to know your customers authentically, not "I looked it up in my spreadsheet.
[00:38:16] She has two dogs, a cat." And you need to know your customers and be authentic about it. Like "I look up in the file, what's her name again?" Like shame on you. You should know your customers.
[00:38:28] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: What are the vitamins you're taking to keep your memory so sharp, Rachel, with all your customers?
[00:38:32] Tres Patten: She has a spreadsheet.
[00:38:34] Rachel Jones: No, you know what? I started this job with a big fat zero customers. My boss gave me a list of 20 accounts in the state of Virginia. I have Virginia, Washington, DC and outer base, North Carolina. So I got to slowly build my customer base. So that's how I know my customers. Cause I, I got to grow it.
[00:38:55] And a nice pace instead of giving 8, 000 accounts and here go meet all these people. It goes back to me and Tres saying, it's not about getting the sale. It's about creating the relationship. If they know you're honest, you're going to sell them the right things.
[00:39:13] Sometimes a toy doesn't need a story. It's just put it in their hand and they see the magic on their own. So not every toy needs a story.
[00:39:21] Tres Patten: Well, and one thing I was going to say about the power of building that relationship and Rachel, you can probably second me on this is if you are authentic with people and you tell them about a toy, then once you have that relationship, when you have a winner in your hand and you can go to a customer and you can say, "Yo, trust me, like you want this." They'll take it because they trust you.
[00:39:42] Rachel Jones: You don't even need to say, "trust me.". The best way to find out to really build trust is if they want a product and you know, it's awful. I'm always like, "Listen, you don't want that. I know it looks cool, but it's not going to sell. These are the reasons why it's not going to sell."
[00:40:00] I mean, if it's a bad product, it's not going to sell anyways.
[00:40:03] But if it's just bad packaging, and they're going to hand sell it. Then I'll say, "Hey, you know what? If you're going to hand sell it, then yes." But, it's good to be honest. If you say no, that's like the first way to build trust with someone.
[00:40:14] Just this product is not good. Maybe faxers don't want to hear me say that, but they know when a product's not good too. If they say it is, they're lying.
[00:40:23] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: I tell people, like clients all the time that come, they're like, "I have all this inventory. How do I sell it?" And I'm like, "You need to redo all the packaging and repack it. And I'm so sorry, but it's not going to work."
[00:40:34] Rachel Jones: You know what, I have the most freedom out of both of you with being able to be that honest because Tres could say a product is bad, he could say a product's bad, but I can say it without being punished, if that makes sense.
[00:40:53] Tres Patten: Yeah I think I don't have the flexibility to point at somebody to a different line, but again, I mean, Djeco, we have 500 SKUs across, you know, multiple categories. So if I'm standing with a store or a rep and they're looking at a specific thing, and I know it's not a great fit for their specific store, just based on historical sell through or comps or something like that I have the luxury of pointing them to a different product within my, you know, and that, that's a blessing from being at a larger manufacturer.
[00:41:26] You know, if I had one or two SKUs that I needed to sell to survive,
[00:41:29] then that would be, that'd be different. I
[00:41:31] gotta
[00:41:32] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: So we're at the close of round two. And I have to say we are in a tie. We are at 16-16 points. So we're going to do one final closing question. Well, we have two final closing questions, but only one of them will count. Well, maybe both of them will count. Two final closing questions to break up this time.
[00:41:49] One. What piece of sales advice do you wish more people knew about? Yeah.
[00:41:54] Tres Patten: go first. Damn. All right. Sales advice. I wish more people knew . Specifically for the toy industry. And I mean, I'm going to make this about the toy industry, but I think it's true for sales just in general, and it's don't overestimate your own importance to your customer. I say this to manufacturers who are starting, and I've had this conversation with a number of manufacturers and reps, but it's basically, if you look at our industry, there's maybe four or five destination brands, right?
[00:42:25] Like somebody will go to a store specifically to get a specific Lego SKU because it has that, right? But most people aren't Googling "where can I buy locally, you know, X, Y, Z." right? I know that if somebody walks into one of my specialty stores and says, Hey, I'm looking for a craft for my two year old, what do you recommend?
[00:42:45] The store is going to put that in their hands and sell that to them. But that's on me as a sales manager, director of sales to educate my team, in this case, my stores, to do that. It's not on the rep. It's not on the store owner to just inherently know that. And so I consider that like an overinflated sense of self worth, which I don't have a better way of phrasing that, but it's know where you stand and I know that my job is to empower my reps or my job is to empower the stores that work with me for them to make money, right?
[00:43:19] When I'm on the phone with a buyer, but one of the first things I want to do is what can I do to make you look good for your bosses? Right? What can I do to help a store sell more products? Cause that's what matters really. And the more I do that, the better I'm going to be at my job.
[00:43:33] And so I consider myself almost like the middleman between the toy and the consumer. How do I get as many obstacles out of the way as possible?
[00:43:42] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Rachel, what do you have to say?
[00:43:43] Rachel Jones: okay, so the answer to this is, I think how we got to have this discussion. Honestly , I see store owners and people killed a sale in their own store with a product. "Hey, I want a product for a three year old." "Oh, well, this is good for this and this." We care about that.
[00:44:02] They don't care about that. Like I think sales reps need to work more on the magic. That's why we're here for storytelling, the magic of the toy instead of it making it "This has this, and this," and it's on the side of the box, which is fine, but let's not make it the main point.
[00:44:19] Let's put a picture, let's make the product packaging better and stop putting all this stuff on our kids toys.
[00:44:28] So, I mean, yes, in an educational story, yes, great. Awesome, have that stuff on there. But in a toy world, come on, let's have fun. Let's stop forgetting about why we're here. another thing for people in sales, I've beat it like a dead horse. Play with the toys, take it out of the box, play with the toys.
[00:44:49] I get boxes every day. Open the box, spend a certain amount of time a day going through the new stuff you have, see, "Hey, is it missing this? What is it missing?" I work with a lot of manufacturers. I've said, "Hey, you're missing this or this game doesn't have enough questions for it.
[00:45:08] I played it with my family. It was a one time play." So giving feedback to the manufacturers and then it helps, maybe you don't sell that product until they fix the product. So sales, spend the time, do your job, learn your products and it'll sell itself.
[00:45:26] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: My final question to both of you is what toy or game blew your mind as a kid?
[00:45:32] Tres Patten: Well, we know it wasn't a microscope for Rachel.
[00:45:35] Rachel Jones: I know, you know, my favorite thing ever was, and I had it till I killed it, was my glow worm. I freaking loved my glow worm. Lite-Brite was my favorite thing. I literally lived and breathed my Lite-Brite. Amazing.
[00:45:52] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: Huh. And Tres?
[00:45:53] Tres Patten: Man, I don't know. I think the toy that blew my mind the most as a kid was probably my first, like real delve into Legos. I feel like the thing that it still blows my mind, what a simple over, like generally what a simple concept, but it manages to capture both right brain and left brain people.
[00:46:10] And to me it was like, yeah, I would build it and that was cool. But then it was built, it was like. using it to play like figurines that I could make my own figurines to tell my own story. That was it for me as being like, "Oh dang, like I can make my own world and then play stories inside this world."
[00:46:28] And so that was my mind. That was my aha moment. I'm going to be a storyteller. Thanks, Lego. Yeah.
[00:46:35] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: By one point, the winner of this epic battle is Rachel Jones.
[00:46:48] Tres Patten: I want a rematch.
[00:46:49] Rachel Jones: Rematch, I'm always down for a rematch. Actually, listen, I want to say that we have the same views on everything. So really, I'm going to share this belt with you, Tres, I'm going to share my belt with you.
[00:47:02] Tres Patten: Thank you.
[00:47:04] Rachel Jones: We'll cut it in half. We'll make it a necklace.
[00:47:08] Tres Patten: I've always wanted half a belt. Nothing speaks to me as a salesperson like a participation trophy. Bye!
[00:47:13] Rachel Jones: All you do is lay the half on your shoulder. You don't need the other one half going down the back. Who cares? We'll sew it into black shirt, sweaters and there!
[00:47:25] Azhelle Wade | The Toy Coach: What a conversation. This is a huge thank you to Tres Patton and Rachel Jones. Thank you guys for joining us today. We explored in this chat the power of driving storytelling and sales, learned great advice for educating your retail partners, your sales reps on your product.
[00:47:41] Thank you, Tres. And not just letting the product flounder when no one knows how to use it. We explore the power of storytelling, how vendors and sales reps use storytelling to connect with retailers and customers. We got perspective from the insights of a vendor. Thank you, Tres. In shaping the broader brand narrative and Rachel, thank you for giving us a glimpse and how to channel a child's sense of wonder into every sales pitch, whether you are a vendor or a sales rep yourself.
[00:48:07] Today's chat was definitely a masterclass and making connections through storytelling. Thank you again to our guests. If you love this podcast and you haven't yet left a review, what are you waiting for?
[00:48:15] Your reviews keep me and wonderful guests like this coming back week after week. And every time a new review comes in, it puts a huge smile on my face. As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. And I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there.
[00:48:29] So, it means the world to me that you tuned into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later, toy people.
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