Episode #155: In-Person Interviews with Entrepreneurs At Chicago Toy and Game Week [1 of 3]

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In December of 2022, The Toy Coach Team ventured out to the windy city to set up a live podcast recording booth at Chicago Toy and Game Week, also known as CHITAG by Mary Couzin and People of Play. This annual, public toy and game fair is where toy and game brands connect with the consumers who love their products, debut new lines, and marketing activations.

During this 2 day fair, I interviewed 10 toy and game creators during this fair to learn about their toy journeys and ask them to share any toy biz wisdom they’d gathered along the way. This is Part 1 of a 3 part interview release series featuring my interviews with Dolphin Hat Games, Eblox, Pockimals, and Project Genius.

The video of these 10 interviews will be released on my YouTube channel before the end of 2022! If you don’t want to miss the video release, head over to youtube.com/thetoycoach and hit the subscribe button to be notified when they are available.

• Mentioned In This Episode

  This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com

  Shop Dolphin Hat games by clicking here.

  Learn more about Eblox by clicking here.

  Shop Pockimals by clicking here.

  Check out Project Genius online by clicking here.

• Episode Transcript

  [00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making it in the Toy Industry, episode number 155.

  [00:00:05] Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here and welcome back to another episode of the Toy Coach Podcast, making it in the Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. Today's podcast episode is one part of a three part series that will take us through the rest of this year.

  [00:00:38] And for every episode the rest of this year, we're gonna be highlighting interviews that I conducted. At a recent toy industry event. So if you follow along with me on social media, you may have known that I was recently at CHITAG, which is the Chicago Toy and Game Fair that's held in Q4 every year.

  [00:00:58] At the show this year, I interviewed 10 creators. All with different products. From book authors to toy and game creators. In these interviews, we dived into their personal experiences, developing their brands, and of course lessons for listeners of this podcast.

  [00:01:19] Now we did record full video for all of these interviews, and those videos will be coming available in the coming weeks. So I want you to head over to youtube.com/thetoycoach, subscribe to my channel so you'll be notified as soon as these videos become available.

  [00:01:39] Those videos are gonna break down the key lessons learned in each of these interviews, so you definitely don't wanna miss those YouTube videos. Okay, for today's episode, I'm happy to share with you four interviews. First with Dave Campbell from Dolphin Hat Games, the creator of Taco Cat Goat Cheese Pizza, the game.

  [00:02:03] After that, we'll have a chat with Jim Seymour of EBlox, the STEM building kit that is compatible with your favorite Lego set. Then we'll chat with one of the co-founders of Pockimals, Hillary Krinsky. And finally, we'll wrap up today's episode with Brandi Pinsker, co-founder and CEO of Project Genius.

  [00:02:28] Now, in today's podcast episode, you're gonna learn everything from how some of these brands were inspired by the families of the creators. You'll hear how some of these creators actually work with their family in their business. To this day, you'll learn the struggles of being a startup toy or game company as well.

  [00:02:50] Learn the value of having a mission driven business and the importance of attending in-person trade shows like the Chicago Toy and Game Fair CHITAG. As I said at the top of this episode, this is part one of a three part series that will take us through the holidays.

  [00:03:10] So without further ado, let's dive into interviews held by the toy coach at CHITAG. The Chicago Toy and Game Fair put on by people of play and Mary Couzin.

  [00:03:22] --

  [00:03:22] Azhelle Wade: Hey there toy people. I'm here with Dave Campbell. Yes. Like the soup. Like the soup. The founder, and lead designer behind Taco Cat Goat Cheese Pizza and Dolphin Hat Games. That's right. Tell us a little bit about your company. When did it begin?

  [00:03:36] Dave Campbell: So dolphin hat began probably around 2015 or so. 2014. And I, I really started it as like a side hustle. What's your full hustle? Well it's now my full hustle, but my side hustle at the time. Cause I was a traveling salesman For what? Welding supplies. So I was in welding supplies.

  [00:03:56] So I'd go to places like, so I start in Dayton and I'd drive from somewhere like Chicago or I'd drive up to Detroit and I would help somebody, like in a factory setting or like in a, welding shop with more intricate welding supplies. Like if they had like a more difficult job and we'd have some like special equipment.

  [00:04:13] So that meant that I had a ton windshield time. Driving time, windshield time, windshield time. That's a phrase. Yeah. Yep. Windshield time. Okay. And during that time, I would always be thinking of. different Games that I could design, right? Different concepts because it's something that I love from when I was young.

  [00:04:30] Some of my best memories are playing games, you know spinning summers playing monopoly or playing Dungeons and Dragons, these are some of my best memories. Yeah. And so I always loved games and as I got older, I would think of different concepts and different Games that maybe I could make.

  [00:04:50] Oh, okay. And one of the challenges I always had with games or tabletop in general was getting my family to play with me. Why? Because when you bring a tabletop game, typically you'll bring it to the table and you open it up and it'll have a thick rules packet like that. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

  [00:05:10] And so my kids would look at me, or my wife would look at me and be they'd be like, no, no, no. And So like, I wanna play a really big game. And they're like, yeah, No. No. So I would try to think of games that I that would take away all those barriers. Right. So what, what if you could, you make a game where you take the rule book and just Right. Yeah. And still have it be accessible for everybody.

  [00:05:31] And have multi-generational game where everybody couldn't laugh. Just get together for like 15 minutes. Yeah. Have some laughs. Yeah. And then get outta there. And so that, that's where dolphin hat came from.

  [00:05:41] Azhelle Wade: So you're driving to sell some, some supplies, were you. Thinking about games that you were trying to play with your family and trying to think to simplify them. Yes. Or yeah, that's what you're thinking?

  [00:05:50] Dave Campbell: That's exactly it. Yeah. So, so I was trying to think of different concepts that would be engaging for my family. So I wouldn't have explained long, long rule sets and I started making 'em.

  [00:05:59] Azhelle Wade: Can you tell me like the first game that you kind of were inspired by and then the first game that you actually made?

  [00:06:04] Dave Campbell: Yeah, so I'd say the first game that I was truly, truly Fired by would probably be a risk. When I was, 12, we went to a church camp our group got together and we played risk and it was like the older guys in the group and some of the younger guys.

  [00:06:19] Yeah. And I ended up winning that game. And you want to hook somebody into like the game world. If, if they kinda like, have success early on and that, that's kind of what happened with risk. So after that, I was just completely hooked in Uhhuh. And so that's like one of my best memories. And so a lot of times, like I said, the reactions you get when you bring a bigger game, like no, no.

  [00:06:40] So some of the games that I first started working on were really just kind of quick games. Like I had a, a family puzzle game. Frog pig, pug. Frog pig, pug.

  [00:06:50] Azhelle Wade: So this is like a theme of yours.

  [00:06:51] Dave Campbell: Yeah. I use, I use these, these things, you know what I mean? So yeah, that was one of my first games.

  [00:06:57] And then where this one came from I was working on an emoji game and it was kinda like a little emoji. Simon says game, and I had a ton of leftover emojis and I about 2017, is when I Started working on this one and I remember Rose, I was down in my basement. I was trying to harken back some of the games I used to play, and one of the ones I used to play was a game called e r s or Slap Jack Egyptian Rap Screw.

  [00:07:19] It's often called. And it's just a big action, hand slapping situation. Mm-hmm. and I used to love that game. It was intense, you know, boom, boom, boom. And so I went back to some of the emojis and I was like, gosh, what if I replaced some of the numbers with these emoji? And the first one I saw was the taco. And I'm like, well, I think a two is boring. A three is boring. Yeah. Yeah. What if I placed two with taco? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think I was hungry cuz it, I went to like goat cheese and cheese pizza. But anyways. So I, I came up with taco cat, goat, cheese pizza and this game was deceptive cuz it actually took quite a bit of Yeah. And I had to work a lot on like, color confusion of this game. You can see like, like changing colors in the backgrounds and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, so the first version of this that we played with my family had all the same colored backgrounds and things like that.

  [00:08:08] Right. And so I had to work to, really kind of change the colors. So how do you play this So in Taco Cat goat, Cheese pizza. The name of the game actually almost kind of becomes a mantra. So you get everybody sitting around a table like we are right now, right? We are right now.

  [00:08:20] so you split up the cards evenly between the players? Yes. And you take turns putting cards in the middle of the table saying, taco, cat. And then go

  [00:08:28] Azhelle Wade: Cheese.

  [00:08:29] Dave Campbell: And then pizza. So when the word matches the card that's laid, we rush to get our hands in the pile.

  [00:08:34] Okay. Last person has to take all the cards. So I was last, I have to take this. Yeah, you take those. Okay. . Very competitive. Alright, good. Good, good, good. All right, so we'll, we'll go ahead and do that again, but then there's a couple extra rules we're gonna go through real quick. So it goes, taco, cat, goat, cheese, pizza, taco, cat, goat,

  [00:08:53] cheese, pizza, , boom.

  [00:08:55] Perfect,

  [00:08:56] perfect. Okay, so now in the course of this, we had a couple cards that popped. up that were not taco, cat, goat, cheese, or pizza. Yeah. gorilla. Yep. So the first special card is gorilla, and when gorilla comes up, everybody does this and then hits the pile. Last person has to take the cards, but no matter what said, oh, okay.

  [00:09:14] Okay. No matter what's said, we ignore. We did, we did. Just so we can get the flavor first. Okay. The next special card is Nawal. As soon as Nawal comes out, everybody does this and then gets your hands on top of the pile. Oh, mm-hmm. . And then

  [00:09:25] oh, so you

  [00:09:25] Azhelle Wade: have to slap for the, the slap

  [00:09:27] Dave Campbell: after.

  [00:09:27] Yep. Because the last person has like ends the game. That's correct. That's correct. And the last special one is groundhog. As soon as groundhog comes out, everybody does this, and then hands on top of the pile. Okay. Okay. so now we're ready to go. Okay. All right. And it's go time all. So, taco, cat, goat, cheese, pizza.

  [00:09:46] Taco, cat,

  [00:09:48] Azhelle Wade: goat. Ooh. Oh, oh gosh. Oh gosh.

  [00:09:52] Dave Campbell: And so now you would take these and put 'em on bottle money back. Oh no. And then you start with taco.

  [00:09:55] Oh

  [00:09:56] Azhelle Wade: no. Okay. Taco, cat, goat, cheese, pizza,

  [00:10:01] Dave Campbell: taco,

  [00:10:02] Azhelle Wade: cat, goat cheese. Oh, woo.

  [00:10:05] Dave Campbell: You're, you're good. I can tell pro level already. I'm

  [00:10:08] Azhelle Wade: aggressive. .

  [00:10:09] We may play this game at home.

  [00:10:11] Oh, that's great.

  [00:10:11] Right?

  [00:10:11] Dave Campbell: That's good. So that's okay. So that's taco cat, goat, cheese, pizza. And so we did a Kickstarter for this in 2017. Yeah. at that time Dolphin Hat was a very small company. We saw our relatively small and all my goal was, was just to and put 'em up on Amazon. Yeah. You know what I mean?

  [00:10:26] Hopefully get my family to play him. That was what I was doing.

  [00:10:28] Azhelle Wade: Hopefully , that was what I, just wants his family to play games.

  [00:10:31] Dave Campbell: Him. That's it. That's then so, but this one has always had a life of its own. Yeah. It's got this little viral nature to it. Yeah. Why is that? I, it's, it's hard to put my finger on, but I would say You're, you're connecting a lot of different senses in one game, right?

  [00:10:46] Mm-hmm. , most board games or, or card games, you're some kinda kind going back and forth. Yeah. No one's really saying anything usually, right? But with this game, you have a verbal component, right? You have a physical component. Physical component, right? And then you kind of got this little speedy action. That gives people license to be silly.

  [00:11:03] Yeah. When they wouldn't otherwise have a to be silly. Right. So like, when are you gonna see grandma and grandpa doing this and this and you know, and then it's good cross-generational game. Right. And then also there's no barrier here. Of a giant book. Yeah. Of a giant book. There's not even no room for a book.

  [00:11:20] Yeah, exactly. So it gets a good rhythm going to it and you can bring different generations to the table at

  [00:11:26] Azhelle Wade: once. So I wanna talk about like, when you came out with this game. Sure. How did you get it? How, Like, it has a viral nature. But how did you start that? Like, did you get it placed in retail first? Did you sell it online first?

  [00:11:36] Yeah. When did it

  [00:11:37] pick up?

  [00:11:37] Dave Campbell: What happened? So it was on Amazon first, so we did the Kickstarter. It was a small Kickstarter. Yeah. I think we had like a, I can't remember, like 130 backers or something. Very small. Okay. How many,

  [00:11:45] Azhelle Wade: how much money did you raise?

  [00:11:47] Dave Campbell: couple grand. Okay. And so that enabled me to order the first copies of this game.

  [00:11:53] And the thing that I wanted to do with this, game Was try to say yes as much as I possibly could to everybody. Like, so if somebody's like, Hey, I'm gonna be doing X and I'm gonna show this game, I'd be like, yeah, here. It's okay. Or, Hey, I've got a board game, bar cafe. Here's the we've got a library of games.

  [00:12:11] Here, here. at the library We, we give up. Yes, you. know and luckily it's a cost effect enough that I can just do that type of thing. Right. The other thing that I wanted to do is I gave it to as many board game cafes as I could. Yeah. All right. So I got it into as many hands I could and I hit the street. I went to board game shops and went and sold it.

  [00:12:31] Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so one of the big breakthroughs with this game was I sent it to board game cafes across the country, just blind put it in. the mailer, Sent it out and I got a call, this was a couple months into having Taco Cat up on Amazon. I got a call from a company called VAT 19. And they do YouTube videos.

  [00:12:52] And they also have their own little shop. And they called me up and said, Hey, we played your game in a board game cafe next to us called Pieces Board Game Cafe. And I was like, oh, that's cool. I didn't know who they were. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And they're like, Hey, we would like to sell this on our website.

  [00:13:05] I'm like, oh, great. You Know. So I sold him some copies and a couple weeks later they called me and said, Hey, we'd like to do a video for this. I'm like, oh, that sounds neat. And so I went on their YouTube to look at their channel to see Pit, you know, and they were getting like 5 million, 6 million views.

  [00:13:19] Azhelle Wade: Oh

  [00:13:19] Dave Campbell: my God. And so I was like, oh yeah, okay, let's figure something out here. It was like asap. Yeah. And so they did. And so that was kind of like a real launch point for us. Oh, okay. They, their video, I think got to this day is like 6 million views, 7 million views, something like that. And then, so it started to snowball.

  [00:13:35] And I was able to work. I think the first major retailer we got into was Barnes and Noble. And cuz it started climbing the Amazon ranks. Right. And because I was, I was burning a little bit on Amazon. I was, I was doing some advertising on Amazon, paper click stuff, you know what I mean? And it started to rise up the ranks and just its own viral nature.

  [00:13:53] People were buying it whenever they played it. And so it shot us up the ranks on Amazon. And so the retailers took notice. Like, what is this game that's like cooking up on Amazon and, and they reached out to you? The retail. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yep.

  [00:14:07] Azhelle Wade: this is another lesson of building the brand. Yeah.

  [00:14:09] Like you, it's so funny. Like without really intending to, like you wanted to create a game that was simple enough that your family would play it. But that's actually also a great characteristic of any mass market game that it's easy to play. Yeah. So you created this easy to play and then you created a low point.

  [00:14:26] Yes. Which is great for a starting item. Yeah. So, anybody Can, even if they don't know the company, they're like, we'll take a risk. It's $10. Yeah. , I'll take a risk,

  [00:14:34] Dave Campbell: And so with Taco Cat Goat Cheese Pizza, I've also, you know, try to keep the commitment Yeah.

  [00:14:38] Even during this more difficult time period where there's pressures on us Right. To raise price. Yeah. You know, I want to be a value leader if I can. Right. And that to me, that keeps doors open. Mm-hmm. , you know, and that gets more people to the, the table. So, , you know, even though we have to, we have some of the same pressures as other people's shipping.

  [00:14:57] And with cost rising, hopefully we can make up with a volume and being a value leader. Right. That's, that's how I

  [00:15:03] Azhelle Wade: see it. But it sounds like you have a really identity of what your company stands for. Yes. Right. You wanna bring more people to the table. More people. Why? More to the table. It's A simple game. Yes. That's even probably why it has a simple name.

  [00:15:14] Yes. Right? Yes. And then so you wanna keep it

  [00:15:17] price

  [00:15:17] Dave Campbell: low for that. I wanna keep my price low. I want to take away barriers. Get more people to the table. Yeah. Make the. games Accessible and simple. Again, so we can just, let's spend 10, 15 minutes together and have some laughs. Yeah. And then we can go do other things that we want to do.

  [00:15:32] Azhelle Wade: Where does the name Dolphin hat come from? This is a, a total side question.

  [00:15:38] Dave Campbell: Yeah. So some of your viewers might not like this answer, but I happen to be a big time Miami Dolphins fan. Yeah. So I lived about six years down in Florida. And I grew up in upstate New York as a Dolphins fan. Big damn Reino guy. Is that why the colors are I, That's why you, can see the colors kind of like this. And so typically when you'd see me not in a work setting, I'd be wearing a Miami Dolphins Wow. And so I was trying to think of like a whimsical, that is kind of thing I'd be like, I was like, oh, dolphin's, hat. Dolphin dolphin hat, dolphin wearing a hat.

  [00:16:08] So that's where it comes from.

  [00:16:09] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Yeah. And what other games does Dolphin hat carry?

  [00:16:13] Dave Campbell: So we try to focus in on family so fast, fun and friendly. That's fast, fun, my whole thing. Fast, fun and friendly. Yes. So we have a game right now called Steal the Bacon, which is a lot of fun and it's a game where we're matching pancake and waffle cards.

  [00:16:26] If my pancake ma matches your pancake, we're gonna be here a race to steal the bacon that's in the middle of the table. Mm-hmm. .Okay. So that's super fun. We also have another game called. On Porpoise Where we're racing to dress a dolphin in a tux. So he's got like different matching patterns on the tuxedo pat argyle, paisley and polka dot.

  [00:16:41] And so we're just simply racing to, to, to dress this often. And then finally we got this new game called Gimme that Uhhuh . And this game is, we're all racing to count potatoes on a s spreadsheet, right? Right. And if you get to all 100 potatoes first you win. The problem is everybody's trying to do the same thing and there's only one pencil available.

  [00:17:02] Oh, so the. game is spent Fighting over a pencil so you can fill out your S spreadsheet. Okay, so that's only party game. Gimme that.

  [00:17:08] Azhelle Wade: Where do you get these random ideas? So when I saw Taco Cat, goat, cheese pizza, I was like, so brilliant. Cause in the toy industry so often, like different characters and graphics are, are trending year after year.

  [00:17:18] Yeah. And tacos were huge for a while. Cat were Huge for, and Then they got into goat yoga. Yeah. You know, , I was like, this an SEO dream. yeah, yeah. And so like, and then now this is like a potato. You got steal the bacon. So it's, like, where do You do these random ideas?

  [00:17:31] Dave Campbell: I think usually I'm just hungry. Okay. ? I, you know, it's hard, hard to put my finger on.

  [00:17:37] Yeah. But you know, it's, to me a lot of it well this harken back to something from my past or something that resonates for some reason. Yeah. You know, this one of course, we've got the pal drum of Taco Cat and then, you know, pizza, They just kind of just kind of flowed out of my brain, and then steal the, bacon. I used to be a dent leader for Cub Scouts, and we'd actually play a game called Steal the Bacon, where we'd take like a rolled up sock or a, Yeah, yeah, yeah. and we'd put it in the middle of the gym.

  [00:18:04] Yeah. So I remember to steal the Yeah. And I'd be like, okay, group two and group four. And the the kids would run after the, right. The sock. And if you tag the other per, so it's kind of like the same flavor, it's an actual piece of bacon in the middle of the table and you're Matching pancake cards instead of calling out two and four. And stuff like that. that.

  [00:18:21] Azhelle Wade: And you have no prior experience to like a professional game design?

  [00:18:25] Dave Campbell: No. No. You No, it's just some, I just, somebody that likes games a lot, play has played a lot of games, and just wanting to make 'em

  [00:18:32] Azhelle Wade: accessible. That's it. What do you see as the benefit of coming to like an in-person event again, like this one?

  [00:18:38] Dave Campbell: To me it's where the rubber hits the road. I can see reactions, I can get my games into people's hands, and I can do the work that maybe other people might not be willing to do. Mm. And I believe in that as far as like dolphin hat and getting the game in other people's hands. These games do no good for dolphin hat or for my customers sitting in a warehouse, right.

  [00:18:59] I need to get these into people's hands so they can play them, and then they'll share them with their family and then hopefully that'll translate into another sale.

  [00:19:07] Azhelle Wade: That goes back to your mission, Yeah. getting more people around the table. This theme this month, I think has been in my podcast has been very on like having a clear, defined mission.

  [00:19:16] Yeah. And how it makes it easier to make decisions. So like, Should I be a part of this trade show? Well, if it's important for you to get in front of your consumers and get more people around the table, it becomes an easy Yes.

  [00:19:25] Dave Campbell: Yes. You know? Yep.

  [00:19:26] That, that's, that is exactly how I feel about it. you know, the, the more people I can meet, the more games I can get into hands. Right. The better off dolphin hat will be and the more sustainable, hopefully this is. And, and frankly to me just because the kind of person I am, I like to see the smiles.

  [00:19:41] Yeah. You know, I like to have the laughs and the interactions and that helps propel me and gets me excited to bring out the next release or, you know, move Taco Cat even higher. And that's, you know, a big thing is these shows are a big thing and I'm willing to try just about any show. Okay. As long as there's people, oh, if you know, NY now

  [00:20:00] Azhelle Wade: has a toy section this year.

  [00:20:02] Dave Campbell: Oh yeah. Nice. Yes, it's

  [00:20:04] Azhelle Wade: new. Yeah. Uh, That's happening like February. So I, I do wanna ask this question. Have you experienced any real struggle since you've been starting this company? Because I know you. had a full-time gig before. Yeah. So I'm wondering if the struggle happened while you had the support of full-time. Did you have struggles while building this company?

  [00:20:22] Dave Campbell: Yeah. I, I've had quite a few struggles. Yeah. I think that's what people typically don't see behind the scenes. But I had a full-time job and it was a good job in what I was doing, and it was a company that I was running. Yeah.

  [00:20:35] And it was the difference between liking something that you do and having just a true love and passion for this. But the struggle came in is that even though we did a Kickstarter, for say for some for this, they was very small. Yeah. I had to risk a lot to even start. So all the capital that was raised was raised by me for the most part.

  [00:20:56] Yeah. Outside of the small Kickstarters. And all the connections were made by me, like pressing the button to send money to the factory in China was just. You know, that's a lot of money. I don't know this person. Yeah. And they, they've ended up being a great partner. Yeah. And taking money from my savings and, and doing this.

  [00:21:15] There's been a lot of risks on the way. And then not only that, but you know, as a family man that has also has. Four kids. Four kids, yeah. Do doing a full-time job, running a business, and then trying to do a side hustle, that becomes a full-time gig. Right. And then now trying to grow this company and lift this company up you constantly have to bet on yourself.

  [00:21:34] Yes. It's a always, I'm always re-upping the bet. Always and the best just get bigger and bigger and bigger. But I so believe in what we're doing I believe in this product, I'm willing to make that big bet every single time. Why

  [00:21:46] Azhelle Wade: do you feel so? How do you yourself and Believe in yourself so much?

  [00:21:50] Dave Campbell: What we do whether it's in the toy industry or in the games, it's such a blessing to bring like happiness to people that, you know, see the laughs.

  [00:22:00] It is a driving factor, you know? And, and to me to see that and you know, reality in people's faces is a truly wonderful thing. Yeah. And so that just, just drives me. And you know, luckily we're seeing some of the fruits of that. We're, we're, we're starting. to grow, We're growing in the marketplace. We've got a good name, we've got a good growing brand.

  [00:22:21] Yeah. And it's hard to build a brand, you know that. Yes. Probably better than anybody. Right? Yeah. It's hard to build, build a brand. So, I'm thankful for it, but that does drive me. Yeah. Well,

  [00:22:29] Azhelle Wade: thank you for sharing all that. Yeah. And I, I wanna ask that

  [00:22:31] Dave Campbell: question. you, I thank you for what you do. I, guess I, love, I love the podcast.

  [00:22:34] It's awesome. You're

  [00:22:34] Azhelle Wade: welcome. No.

  [00:22:36] Alright, so I wanna ask you for closing questions. I kind of already know the answer to this, but What toy or game blew your mind as a kid?

  [00:22:43] Dave Campbell: Blew my mind as a kid. I would say still to this day, Dungeons and Dragons for me. I have very fond memories. I'd stay up till two in the morning playing with my friend across the street. My, my, my, yeah, we, we play Dungeons and Dragons. And the thing that still amazes me of that about that game is that exists solely in your head. Yeah. It's a role playing game, right?

  [00:23:01] Yes. You have the structure and it's all how. you interpret that structure. You can play very tight rules or you can play loosely, but it, it exists in my head and in your head individually. Yeah. And then to cook together, we can grow this, you know, incredible narrative. And to me that that's like a great memory, staying up all ours night.

  [00:23:19] My mom and what are you doing over there you're so late? And it'd be one of those things like saying, playing Dungeons and dragons .

  [00:23:27] Azhelle Wade: And last, do you have any advice for anybody that's thinking about doing what you did, starting a side hustle and hopefully turning it into something full-time?

  [00:23:35] Dave Campbell: Yeah, I, I would say, Just, you know, believe and try, you know, I, I think so many people get to that point where you need to take the leap or you, you don't.

  [00:23:44] Yeah. And at some point you have to make the decision to at least try and you don't go through life and regret, not try. Right. Right. So I think that's, I can't remember the, what the statistic was. I just heard not so long I think it's like 97% of people won't try to do the thing. That's not saying everybody will succeed in that. Of course. Yeah. To at least give yourself the opportunity. So I guess that's my only advice is to, to try. Make the connections, connect with people.

  [00:24:11] Yeah. You know and a lot of people help me along the way. And I try to help other people and try to make those connections as well.

  [00:24:17] Azhelle Wade: Thank you so much. Yeah. Where can people purchase?

  [00:24:20] Dave Campbell: Amazon. Amazon. Target, Walmart, Barnes and Noble. Kohl's Meyer, our website. dolphinhat.com.

  [00:24:27] Azhelle Wade: dolphinhat.com To learn more about Taco goat cheese pizza. And gimme

  [00:24:31] Dave Campbell: that and steal the bacon. Steal bacon, on porpoise.

  [00:24:36] Thank you so much for being here with me. Thank you so much. pleasure, pleasure. Thank you so much. Yeah, Take care. Yeah.

  [00:24:40] Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. I'm here with Jim Seymour, co-founder and CTO of Eblox. So we're gonna get to know some Eblox products today, Jim. welcome To the show.

  [00:24:50] Jim Seymour: Thank you. It's great to be here.

  [00:24:51] Azhelle Wade: Yes. It's wonderful to have you here.

  [00:24:53] Jim Seymour: My father, my brother and I are the co-founders. And we just had this vision of taking one of the greatest toys ever, huh And making it even more fun and more educational by embedding electronics into your parts. So as you build, you actually build. circuits That make it do cool things.

  [00:25:08] Azhelle Wade: Very cool. Mm-hmm. . Okay. So tell me when did you guys start Eblox?

  [00:25:11] Jim Seymour: Yeah, sure. it was about six years ago. Okay. We were, in the toy industry already, but we had this vision and we really wanted to explore our vision of, the next generation electronic construction So around six years ago, we launched Eblox. We had just, a couple, like six products. At that time, we've grown to like 24 products. Yeah. At this point in time. But like I said, we wanted to, make it compatible with your Lego but in embed electronics in it. So like here you can build first, you can see a little circuit here that goes through a fiber optic tree. Yeah. Okay. That lights up and it's has a color-changing l e d that's feeding the light into it. And you kinda learn about fiber As you see the tips are very bright because when the light comes in, the fiber, the way the fiber is designed is to make it reflect and stay inside, and then all the light comes out the tip.

  [00:25:56] Yeah. And that's used to, you know, do digital communications And stuff. So you learn a lot about not only how the circuit works, right, but the applications of things like fiber optics.

  [00:26:06] But this circuit also, shows you how Motors works. Yeah. So It's a a circuit that goes through a switch and a motor, and then when you switch down, it launches the fan way more

  [00:26:16] Yeah, so it shows you how motors work and also how like airplanes work, you know, with the, lift that's provided that makes the fan fly. So the kit you have set up here comes in this box.

  [00:26:25] That's right, 59 different projects. Uhhuh, can build the fiber tree, the fan launcher, and 57 other projects that teach you all about. And again, once you've finished this, like I get creative, right?

  [00:26:37] This grid accepts actual Lego parts. So I built a thing around it with my Legos that made it look like a castle that launches the fan out. It. So You go after you do all the you have fun integrating it with your own Lego sets.

  [00:26:50] Azhelle Wade: Who came up with the name Eblox?

  [00:26:51] Jim Seymour: We first were like, okay, we want it to be educational. Yeah. We want it to be electronic. Yeah. We want it to be enhanced. Fun. Mm-hmm. , E. Yeah. Eblox, So all those are Eve. So that's kind of how he came to the main. more, more educational, enhanced fun, and it's electronics.

  [00:27:08] Azhelle Wade: During your journey as a, toy entrepreneur with your family. What have been some of the struggles that you've come up against creating something from scratch?

  [00:27:16] Jim Seymour: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So one of the challenges is always low cost. Yeah. You wanna do something that is gonna be economical because, you know, the lower the cost, the more that people are gonna be able to access this. And, you know, we're really getting these things into the hands of our youth because, Right. You know, STEM jobs are growing twice as fast in this country as any other. job. Yep. And so we want kids to get excited about STEM toys and potentially pursuing STEM careers. Yeah. So we wanna make it economical. So that's always one challenge is how can we do something that's very robust?

  [00:27:48] Yeah. Okay. Because kids are gonna play with it. Yeah. But it's, it's low cost so that we you know, offer it at, at a reasonable price. So that's

  [00:27:56] Azhelle Wade: always, how do you achieve that? Is that by creating more than one project for every item and, and like, what kind of things do you balance

  [00:28:02] Jim Seymour: helps some of the value, but some of it is just, , you know, how we make the parts how we design and make them is part of what we always go in into this item. it's called light Eblox, Uhhuh . And it's, it gives you a grid that is Lego compatible that you can build on, but it's also a power board for our parts so that as you build with our parts, they just light up automatically.

  [00:28:23] Wow. So it is like life, right? Meets Lego. Okay. Cause it's, you can build light mosaics or whatever comes to your imagination. I want this . And the boards connect together. So, you can Actually build something much bigger. Dude, this is awesome. Really. That's a fun one. And we do, for schools and stuff, we build curriculum.

  [00:28:42] On top of this, we call student sets and class sets. Okay. Uhhuh. So with this set, we actually teach kids how to build letters and numbers and shapes and sizes. And So even this one has a STEM aspect to it,

  [00:28:53] Azhelle Wade: Do you work with schools a lot. Like you build curriculum and give them product to go with it?

  [00:28:56] Jim Seymour: We do. We, we work a lot with schools. We're part of Scholastic Book Fair. They sell a lot of our stuff. Okay. we do have a sales rep that that, that goes to schools. Okay. Yeah. And, and sells. And we, like I said, we're really big about wanting to get kids excited about STEM at an early age. And so what we do is we take some of our individual sets that are, you might buy in the store, and then we. animated online curriculum. Oh. That it's a little more fun. You step through it. It's kind of PowerPoint based. Yeah. But we put it in Google Sheets format so it can work on any type of device. Yeah. And as you step through it, you know the instructions come in. but then A little dude comes in and tells a joke and the, it makes it a little more fun.

  [00:29:35] And then it gives quizzes and quiz answer sheets to help teachers teach with It's amazing. I Oh yeah, we make it very educational too.

  [00:29:42] Do's amazing. Absolutely.

  [00:29:43] Azhelle Wade: So you work with your dad? Work with my dad. And your brother. And how's that? Be honest. It's fantastic. Oh my. It really? so much fun. Is it really?

  [00:29:49] Jim Seymour: Of course. I mean, no matter where you're always gonna have difference of opinions and that's how you get to something really great anyways. Okay. So obviously, you know there's that it's not

  [00:29:59] always easy, but it's so much re rewarding.

  [00:30:01] Yeah. You know, when you've had worked with your family and Yeah. And you're doing great and it's just, yeah. It's a different type of fun. . Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. All right. Absolutely.

  [00:30:09] Azhelle Wade: What was the first product you ever

  [00:30:12] Jim Seymour: So there were, we really launched with two of 'em. One was the circuit Eblox that you see here. This is one of your first products. It is a surf circuit Eblox. So this is one of our new products. We've come a long way with packaging. This is a third generation packaging. So we, our, our earlier ones you may not have recognized , but the general concept, but the general concept has been the same.

  [00:30:31] We launched with this, okay. There's a power Eblox line. Okay. That in. these are Sort of like the dulo size. Lego parts are a little bit bigger, but the genius of Dulo is they're exactly twice the width of a normal Lego grid. So these parts do plug to regular Lego grids. Yeah, yeah. But we have a, another product called power Eblox mm-hmm. and that has regular classic, what they call system brick Lego parts. Yeah. But we plate some of them in tin. So your parts become conducted. And you build circuits with your parts that all integrate seamlessly with your Legos.

  [00:31:01] All kids have lego Right. And a lot of 'em are sitting in the closet, right. But now with this, you can get them out and create something totally new that lights up or launches fans out of it and you know, really adds a lot more play value to those Legos you have.

  [00:31:16] Azhelle Wade: What's your favorite product in your line right now?

  [00:31:18] Jim Seymour: Okay, so it's our bestseller. It's the build your own burp and fart machine. And we just came out with a build your own DJ set. Yeah. Okay. We got a lot of cool stuff.

  [00:31:27] Azhelle Wade: So burp and fart machine, what do I build? What happens?

  [00:31:30] Jim Seymour: You build the circuit. It's got a speaker and it's got the module with the sounds in it. Uhhuh. And then you can play prank. it burps it farts it has a girl that says, EW . And then the dj, you actually can, and the dj, you hit a button that plays the songs. And then there's like three buttons to insert DJ sounds. Okay. Interesting. And you can lock in a certain sound if you like that sound. And it's got Bluetooth so you can play your own music and insert DJ sounds into your own music.

  [00:31:55] Azhelle Wade: Who's the engineer in your family?

  [00:31:56] Jim Seymour: My father and I are both electrical engineers. My brother's a computer technologist. Okay. My father, and I do a lot of the electrical engineering stuff, but my brother's really great with computers, so he's integrating that into it and stuff.

  [00:32:08] Azhelle Wade: Where is Eblox sold right now?

  [00:32:09] Jim Seymour: Okay, so we're in a lot of specialty toy stores. Hundreds. We are in Meyer. Learning expresses hobby towns. Okay. Those are a few of the places online. And, we are on Amazon. Yes. You'll find it on our own website and on Amazon. And yeah, we are looking to grow this year. So we're Where do you wanna go next? What's the goal? The goal is to, continue with education too. Right, okay. We're in a lot of schools. And, start to get into the mass, you know, into the targets. The Walmart's, the costco. You ready for that? Keep going. We're ready. We got some ideas. I can't really talk about fight yet. But. We're, prepared to start hitting those.

  [00:32:44] Okay, I've

  [00:32:45] Azhelle Wade: got final questions for Two final questions. Sure. For anybody that has an idea mm-hmm. and because yours is an idea that builds on an Existing product. what do you say for people that might have an idea that say let's build, let's say, builds on Scrabble? I do know somebody with an idea. Okay. Uhhuh. that builds on Scrabble. Yeah. So if somebody has an idea like that mm-hmm. what would you say? What advice do you have for them? Yeah.

  [00:33:06] Jim Seymour: The first thing is always to get, a, a patent if you can. Okay. Okay. Because then protects yourself when you start to go to bigger companies and you want to say, Hey, how can I make this something big? Right. Then you're protected because your idea, you know, is, is. protected by that patent trademarks too. Okay. If you're gonna start with something and start a name like Eblox and build that name, we trade it. Because if you make that name big, you're gonna wanna own that. So, exactly. Patents and trademarks are definitely the thing. Yeah. And then, you know, the thing is, there's two paths you can go. Yeah. Okay. You can say, I patented this and now I'm gonna try to get a big company and just, they'll pay me a license and they do all the work. Yeah. Or you can try to launch it yourself like we did. Yeah. Like you did. Yeah. And the one recommendation there is you gotta have some money to get started with.

  [00:33:51] You gotta. have some Capital to really get started because it takes some money to really grow and, and become something big. Yeah. The one thing people don't realize is if you come to a show like this and you're trying to get, orders placed, you gotta come with inventory. Oh yeah. We and you can't just come and be like, we'll make this if you order it. No, we have all our stuff there. So yeah, if you want that DJ set or that bubble machine you talked about, we got it here.

  [00:34:13] Azhelle Wade: So, okay. And this last question for you today, when you were a kid, what toy blew your mind? Okay,

  [00:34:18] Jim Seymour: so I mean, there are a lot of 'em. But I'm a huge sports fanatic. Yeah. So there was this game called Status Pro Baseball. It's a card game, I could simulate baseball games and create the stats and stuff for all the games. So that was fun. I played that for hours. You were very creative minded. . Powers, of course, Atari came along and it was all video games after that. But at a very young age, it was about playing sports. games. Status Pro Baseball. That's a unique one, huh? I'm gonna link that. You never heard I've never heard, heard that before.

  [00:34:48] Azhelle Wade: Ok, I'm gonna link that in uhhuh, this interview. Status Pro Baseball. Before I let you go, where can people buy Eblox? You said Meyer, A bunch of stores, but also if you're watching this, you don't wanna go outside, online. Amazon.

  [00:35:01] Jim Seymour: Amazon. Right. And then our website www.myeblox.com. Perfect.

  [00:35:09] Azhelle Wade: Yep. Perfect. Thank you, it

  [00:35:10] Jim Seymour: Thank you.

  [00:35:11] Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. I'm here today with Hillary Krinsky, co-founder of Pockimals. And off camera we have Danny Cups, the other co-founder. So we're gonna dive into Hillary's story today of how she came up with Pockimals. Hi Hillary. Nice to meet you.

  [00:35:26] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Hi, nice to meet you too. Thanks for having us. Yeah,

  [00:35:28] Azhelle Wade: I'm happy to meet you. So tell me a little bit. Pockimals is okay.

  [00:35:33] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Well, Pockimals are three inch adorable mini stuffed animals. Okay. And we like to say that our belly buttons button in, so they're designed to button into the pockets of all of our products. Oh, so that kids can wear their LOEs and take it on the go.

  [00:35:51] Azhelle Wade: Wait. So I always thought a lovey was the thing that was like a partial blanket attached to the plush.

  [00:35:56] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Although sometimes people, their lovies are the actual plush. So we designed this product to try to solve the problem of losing your little.

  [00:36:03] I love it. And then along the way, kids can wear this to all of their firsts. You can wear it to the first doctor appointment, your first dentist appointment. You're nervous to go somewhere for the first time. You've got your little, your little, your little friend right there. And it like looks cool. It's, you don't look like you're, like, you need your. Stuffed animal. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like you're kind of cool, like it's part of the outfit. Absolutely.

  [00:36:24] Azhelle Wade: So wait. So Pockimals has clothing, plush and bags?

  [00:36:28] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Right. So we're apparel and accessory. We have 12 different Pockimals designs. Okay. And they're all interchangeable. Mix and match. Kids love to collect the pals alone. We've actually had great success. We've just, the stuffed animal.

  [00:36:40] Azhelle Wade: Do you yet have something where it's like multiple, where it's like multiple pockets where maybe I could like Right.

  [00:36:46] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Put multiple pockets. Not long. Not on the apparel, but that's, that's why we introduced the backpack because we had so much feedback that, but I can't choose just one.

  [00:36:53] Yeah. So then, okay. Well you don't have to choose one anymore. Now you can choose up to three to display on your backpack. Okay. But we always say there's no shortage of pockets for a Pockimal to go into. Yeah. So there are tremendous ideas that we have about all the different places that we can put a Pockimal pocket. Yeah.

  [00:37:09] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I have a few questions cuz I'm thinking these look very expensive to make because they're so small. So like, one of the things people don't know is once when you make plush small, it actually gets more expensive. Mm-hmm. So just tell me a little bit about the process of getting the right manufacturing Okay. So that you can make this a successful line.

  [00:37:27] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: When we designed the product, we had a different idea than buttoning into the pocket. The idea was where the arms and legs would stick through some holes. Oh, okay. So we went out through to try to find a manufacturer that would be collaborative with us. Yeah. Because it's a very specific product. The pocket has to be a certain size. The animal has to fit in. It all has to work together.

  [00:37:46] Right. We, we started one country. It did not work. And then we pivot, then we pivoted, and we found a great manufacturer that was willing to sort of do it all together for us. Okay. And, and that's sort of how it started. And so through that work with the second manufacturer, the design and our design team, it morphed and changed so that it could button in and then the arms stick out, and then the legs are hidden inside the pocket.

  [00:38:11] Such a, do you have this idea patented in some way? Cause it's so our logo and our name is a registered trade is a registered trademark. Yeah. Someone took out a patent in the eighties on every single thing coming out of a pocket. So it is, it is what we Yes, I know. It's very strange like design's coming out of a pocket and Oh, so you can't.

  [00:38:31] So, right. So we can't, but it is, but now we're able to do it. It's sort of generic, so we're able to do it. So we're, but we have the name Ole, so it's a pocket animal. So that is ours and Great. I kinda wanna take one out. I wanna see how easy or hard it is.

  [00:38:45] Azhelle Wade: No, it's easy. Yeah. It's really easy to take out a Pockimal. Can I change pockets?

  [00:38:49] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Yeah, absolutely. That is, that's the whole point. You can mix and match. And create your own set.

  [00:38:53] Azhelle Wade: Do your Pockimals all have different names?

  [00:38:55] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: They do.

  [00:38:56] Azhelle Wade: Introduce me to your.

  [00:38:56] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: So this is Taco Dragon what? Taco Dragon. Taco Taco, okay. . Yeah. This is Sprinkles Unicorn. Oh. And then you have Piggy Pig. I love Piggy Pigs. We are Chicago company, so if you have a bear in Chicago, you have to name it Peyton. Buttercup Cow. Oh, Eddie the Lion. Bumpy Cat Uhhuh after Hemingway's cat. Oh, that's cute. And it's intellectual. We have Ozzy Bunny rascal Fox and Lucky Dog, which was named after my puppy when we started the company.

  [00:39:26] Azhelle Wade: How do you buy them? Can you buy one pca? Absolutely. Did you buy like a set three? Absolutely. Like tell me more.

  [00:39:30] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: You can. So our, so our website is a very, you know, interactive experience. Yeah. So you can buy one animal, you can buy two animals. You can buy a pack of three. Yeah. You can pick your shirt, you can pick your color, you can pick your ole. Yeah. We also have dresses, we have t-shirt, flanks, sleeve shirt, dresses, and so.

  [00:39:46] Azhelle Wade: Wait. When did you start Pockimals? Cause this is a lot.

  [00:39:49] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: It's a lot. So we came up with the idea at the end of 2018, but we've only, we will be selling our two year anniversary. Selling will be this February only two years? Yeah, only two years. So we started the line with just a T-shirt and five animals. So these are our originals along with the pig and the bear.

  [00:40:04] Yeah. Okay. These are our fast. Cellar animals no longer get these top sellers. So we can no longer get these online. We've saved them for this fair. Okay. Only have a handful left. And then this is the new line, of course. The unicorn and the dragon. Yes. Our big sellers. The Elephant and the Lion. Uhhuh.

  [00:40:21] And then we introduce the backpack and the second line we introduce the dress and the second line. Yeah. And then the long sleeve hoodie just arrived from time for the holidays. So being in Chicago and the colder climate, you absolutely need to have a long sleeve. Let's get a long sleeve shot. A shot of this hoodie. And boys and girls love it equally.

  [00:40:39] Azhelle Wade: I love it. Equally. So when people come to Pockimals for the first time, do you feel like you have to explain a lot what it is? Like how, how have you defined Pockimals? So somebody is walking by gets it quickly?

  [00:40:50] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Right, so our tagline is our belly buttons button in. so they button into the pocket. And so that, that is the key to this product. It is that you're not gonna lose. Belly button butts in, you're allowed to take your levy on the go.

  [00:41:02] Azhelle Wade: Do you have any advice for anybody else that might have an idea for a toy company? Yes. What would you say that they do? How? How would they start?

  [00:41:09] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Be prepared to spend a lot of time and a lot of energy and it is a full-time job. Yeah. And you have to be passionate about it because there are a lot of ups and. Get connected to all the different toy industries. We got connected with the Women in Toys event, and that's how I saw you in Dallas, which was huge.

  [00:41:27] We made great connections when we were there with some amazing people in the toy industry who have been absolutely valuable to us since we came back. Astra, this show the people of play. Yeah. You have to get connected with people in the industry because people are so willing to help you out. So willing to give you ideas. Put you in touch with other people. So it's, it's important to, to make connections.

  [00:41:50] Azhelle Wade: You said you have to love the idea. Mm-hmm. . So I'm curious, was there a moment or something that happened in your life where maybe your daughter lost her lovey and like freaked out and you were like never again, and that's what inspired it?

  [00:42:03] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: I mean, there were times where something was left behind maybe once. Yeah, we. Discovered it early on and went back. Okay, good. But that really wasn't my children or older, they're teenagers. But it really was just a random conversation with my husband where, where he asked the question, how come this doesn't exist?

  [00:42:21] So it, it was around Christmas time and there was a little animal on the tree where its arms and legs were sticking out. And I took down and I put some holes in my pocket from a shirt I had, and I looked at her. I know. Okay. That is pretty cute.

  [00:42:34] Azhelle Wade: What keeps you motivated during a hard time? Is it looking at the Pockimals? Cuz they're so cute.

  [00:42:38] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: It's, you know, the, it's definitely the, the people that I work with. Yeah. So my co-founder Dani off camera. She's amazing. She, whatever. I'm down she is. Lifting up my spirits. Yeah. Our designers that we worked with, other teammates, we just sort of support each other and we, we believe in it like we have the faith.

  [00:42:58] It's just we that we know that when someone stumbles upon the brand, they fall in love and they become. A brand ambassador. And so we just know like a little bit more work and a little bit more energy and a little bit more time. Yeah. And it's time. Yeah. This has been four years in the making. Yeah. That it will get there. And we want people to love it as much as we do. And we just, we really love it. And it's been a family affair. So it's just those, those elements of it keep us going every.

  [00:43:26] Azhelle Wade: So tell me a little bit about your growth then, over this past two years. Are you in stores yet?

  [00:43:32] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: So we started out online alone at our proprietary website. Yeah. And then we've decided that we really need to build a brand awareness, and the only way to build a brand awareness is to really get out into other stores. So we're about 21, 22 stores across the country right now.

  [00:43:48] Azhelle Wade: Amazing. What stores? Tell us where, where can we get the Pockimals?

  [00:43:53] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: So our biggest store is Brookfield Zoo. Okay. Which is the big zoo here outside of Chicago Uhhuh. And so that's been, that's been great for us. And there's a little shop called Halo that has us we're in a bookstore. So a lot of times people are buying the animals as collectibles. So just little, little places all over.

  [00:44:13] Azhelle Wade: Do you notice a difference in what's, like your best seller in-store versus your best seller online?

  [00:44:19] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: So in store, a lot of people start with just the animals. I think they think of it as just a really cute, and they're little. And there's not a lot of, little plus. We, and we did spend a lot of time looking at our color palette. Yeah. What were the different colors we had animals.

  [00:44:33] Azhelle Wade: One of the big themes of this month with a lot of the businesses I've been talking to is having your why and your mission statement. Do you have a clear why or mission statement for Pockimals?

  [00:44:45] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: We, we really love bringing joy into children's lives. Yeah. Having these types of experiences for us, because we don't have a storefront to come to these events.

  [00:44:55] Yeah. To see a child spend so much time trying to decide which P is their favorite, and when they do, every child puts it to their face. Every single one. Interesting. And they're, and that just makes us smile. When you, when you can do, when you can do a job that makes children smile. Yeah. That. Great.

  [00:45:14] Azhelle Wade: Your why is also the reason why you come to a show like this, because this is a consumer facing show. Absolutely. So, because your why is driven to make your kid the kids happy, you're like, why wouldn't we come to a show where the kids are gonna be there? That's what we're doing this for. Okay. To close up, I have to say, oh, what toy blew your mind as a kid?

  [00:45:31] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: Oh my goodness. Well, I, I grew up with the Cabbage Patch craze, so of course. I, I, I think my holiday season for Cabbage Patch was the year that they were sold out everywhere. Oh my gosh. And my friends and I were desperately trying to find, so definitely Cabbage Patch is like sort of a collector Yeah.

  [00:45:49] Azhelle Wade: And where can people buy Pockimals?

  [00:45:52] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: You could buy it online at pockimals.com.

  [00:45:54] Azhelle Wade: pockimals. Com. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. And that's where Can they follow Pockimals Online?

  [00:46:01] Hilary Poticha Kurinsky: They can follow us on Instagram or at Ad Pals on Instagram. We're on Facebook. Pockimals as well.

  [00:46:06] Azhelle Wade: I feel like we should get your co-founders just like wave. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Dani, come on in. Wave to the people. Dani and Hillary here. So thank you guys so much for being here with me today and being flexible. It was a pleasure chatting with you.

  [00:46:20] Hey there, toy people. I'm here with Brandi Pinsker, co-founder and CEO of Project Genius. I'm excited to get to know more about you, Brandi, and learn about your company. Thank you. Welcome to the show. Thank you. How long has the company been around for?

  [00:46:33] Brandi Pinsker: We have been in business since 2009. 2009. And how did it all begin? I started Project Genius in 2009 with an inventor out of Amsterdam. He had, he had a lineup. Brain teasers that he wanted to get into the US Uhhuh . So that was recent Toys International.

  [00:46:50] Okay. I had just left my buying position at Calendar Club to get over to the manufacturing side of consulting a little bit at the time. But yeah, he wanted to set up shop here in the us so I helped him do that and I was his managing director for a few years. And then, You know, I think like as the company grew, as all companies do, you know, we tended to get like more like real business problems and he just wasn't up for that , he's an inventor at heart and he hated it.

  [00:47:22] At the time, We were, we were having a problem with a line that we were distributing and we weren't getting along with the company that we were working with.

  [00:47:30] Oh. And it was it was just hard. It was sort of like emotionally hard. It was hard for me, sort of like, how do you balance everything at the same time point of view, you know? And I think that he didn't like the headaches that came with that. And so, so he wanted out of it. But I wanted to keep doing it. I mean, I had spent all this time nurturing this business and building it up and building up our customer base.

  [00:47:53] And I wasn't really willing to just walk away from all of that. Right, right. Yeah. And so I bought the company from him.

  [00:47:58] Azhelle Wade: How were you so con well you've been working in the business, but like, how were you so confident to invest such a large sum of money?

  [00:48:05] Brandi Pinsker: I don't know if it was so much confidence as it was like stubbornness. Oh, and just like unwilling to give up the shelf space that we had curated and the customers that we had brought on board. I mean, I had spent the last five or six years really developing this line and this brand and yeah, I just wasn't ready to give all of that up and start over.

  [00:48:23] Azhelle Wade: So tell me about that transition from working for a company to now owning?

  [00:48:32] Brandi Pinsker: You know, it actually was not a huge transition for me because he had been based in am. And while he was the owner of the company he was not very hands on over here. He was very I think content to just let me run things the way I wanted to run things, which was nice.

  [00:48:49] Right? Yeah. I mean, you can't have somebody at a distance try to micromanage what's going on over here in the us. Yeah. And so I think that that was a really nice thing for him to do, and it made the transition for me a lot easier. We had the cash piece of it to solve. I think it made me a little I don't know, it's a little scarier, right when it's all of your stuff on the line, but it's, you know, you're the one signing the personal guarantees on all of these loans and stuff, and that's probably a little scarier, but I also feel like I had more control over yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there were a few areas where I think we didn't agree on. Like for example, I think packaging is the more than the most important things out there is Me too. Yeah.

  [00:49:33] I mean, you've gotta be able to jump off the shelves and the shelves are really competitive these days. Yeah. And I think because he's not based in the US he couldn't see that. He couldn't see why it mattered to me so much. And why aesthetics mattered so much.

  [00:49:48] There's this book, I. It's a little outdated now, but it's called like Why We Buy.

  [00:49:53] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. By Paco Underhill. Yeah. You know that and like I cannot find this quote in the book. I know what's in this book. Still can't find it to this day. But it was some quote where he was like, when people pick up your item on the shelf, yeah. The likelihood of them buying it increases by something crazy, like 70%.

  [00:50:09] So I also agree like packaging is so important cuz if you can get it in their hands, whether it's because of a tri feature or. Of a cool flocking material in your box. Yeah. I think you increase the likelihood that they're gonna leave with it if they're holding it.

  [00:50:21] Brandi Pinsker: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, all you wanna do is get them to the back of the box. Right. And have them, and I would say less than 30 seconds understand how this thing works. Yes. Right. They don't wanna stand in a store. No. Trying to like figure something out and read through. So I think, you know, the more you can do with like images and call outs, obviously you've gotta get that gameplay across. So fast. I mean, what, you know, we're seeing that here this week too.

  [00:50:45] Azhelle Wade: Have you ever, and I do this a lot when I do like market research, I go to stores, I see how people are acting around the product, and I also look at product. Do you ever go to stores and stay near your aisle and listen to what like people are saying as they're looking at your product?

  [00:50:59] Brandi Pinsker: It's so funny that you mentioned that. Why? Because it's one of my favorite things to do. Is it really? It is. Yeah. I mean, I just go, you know we have a big section in Barnes and Noble. Yeah. And I like to just go watch people talk .

  [00:51:11] Azhelle Wade: The best is when they call someone while they're shopping, cuz they need verbalize everything they're thinking. Yes. They're like, yeah, there's this game here. And I'm looking at it and I really think we should, I'm not sure if it's for adults. Oh, it says it's for adults. Yeah. Like it's the best.

  [00:51:24] Brandi Pinsker: You gotta get close to your end consumer. Yeah. I mean, and that's one of the reasons that we do shows like this too, is like, okay, we don't get a lot of chances to interact with the end consumer and see how they react right, to different components of the game.

  [00:51:36] What's hard, what can they not figure out? What is the back of the box not doing that we're doing in person? And then you can take that information Oh, that's good. And transfer it to your product the next time you do, you know, on your next print run, you know? Yeah. If I'm selling ProQ to somebody and I've got one line that I see hooks them every time, well that's whatever I'm saying is to go in the back of the box, cuz I'm not always gonna be here with them, so that is so good.

  [00:51:59] Azhelle Wade: I, I don't want you to give away all your secrets, but can you tell me one thing? That maybe you learned at this show or a show recently that you have changed and implemented on your packaging? Something you noticed by being in person?

  [00:52:10] Brandi Pinsker: Oh my god, there's so many. But there one thing, you don't have to give away all your secrets.

  [00:52:13] You know, one secret, you know, head spin is a new game for us and. We just launched it this year and we've done, I think, a really great job of selling it in. But what I have noticed at this show is that the cards that we're using in here are not communicating as quickly as they need to. It's actually a big So what about the cards?

  [00:52:35] These cards. These cards? Yeah. The cards put a visual. Okay. The cards. Yeah, I think that they're just not as intuitive as I need them to be. Like I, I'm explaining it once and I just sort of see this like, really, it's like, okay, you didn't get that, and I'll maybe change the way I'm explaining it. Yeah, yeah. But it doesn't matter because when I explained it the first time, they didn't get it.

  [00:52:57] Azhelle Wade: And now they're like, Yeah. Confidence is cut. They're not interested. Like, this is making me feel dumb. I don't wanna

  [00:53:03] Brandi Pinsker: Exactly right. And you never wanna make anybody feel dumb. No. and I, yeah. And I make brain teasers. Right. And I think what makes a good brain teaser is to make people feel smart.

  [00:53:14] Azhelle Wade: Really?, oh, hold on. Okay. So, okay, I didn't specify this, but Project Genius does focus on brain teasers, but you think the best brain taser makes people feel smart?

  [00:53:22] Brandi Pinsker: Oh, absolutely. I mean, Why? Because they need some confidence. Like Chroma Cube, for example. This is one of our best sellers. Yeah. It's a logic puzzle. Okay. And we start with a really easy puzzle that I think anybody can solve. Okay? And anybody can solve it, by the way. But what you tend to get are, especially adults, we'll go. I'm not good at brain teasers. Yeah. And they won't even touch it. Yeah.

  [00:53:44] Because they don't wanna feel dumb. They don't wanna feel dumb. Yeah. Right. a hundred percent. But if you can show them that they can do this first puzzle, all of a sudden they feel really smart. They're interested in the second puzzle and they keep going. And what I've learned from during trade shows is that everyone is better at brain teasers than they give themselves credit for.

  [00:54:01] Interesting. Adults have, just like, somewhere along the way, they've made this decision that either they're good at brain teasers or they're. And if they're in that knot category, they just won't go near them. They won't even try. But kids, kids are amazing. Like they don't think they're stupid, they're not afraid. They don't spend any time doing this. It's like, you know, wanna play a game? Yeah. And they just go, sure. Okay. And they take it. Yeah. And they get started and they're really good. So.

  [00:54:26] Azhelle Wade: That's so interesting. Yeah. So do you have products for adults versus kids?

  [00:54:30] Brandi Pinsker: We don't really separate it into adults versus kids, you know, unlike other game categories. Yeah. Brain teasers. One of the benefits of this category actually, is it really spans the ages. You know, if you think about something like a Rubik's Cube Yeah. How would you age greater? Rubik's Cube? Is it for kids or adults? Yeah, it's for everyone. Yeah. It's neither. Right.

  [00:54:48] Azhelle Wade: I guess what I'm thinking is like if kids. So, okay. What I'm imagining is this, like when you're at a trade show, you have this product, for example, you can encourage an adult to give it a try. Yeah. But like you said, the kid's gonna be more open. Have you, or do you have lines that are designed to in store encourage an adult to give it a try? Yeah. You know what I mean?

  [00:55:10] Brandi Pinsker: We do. Yeah. We have another line that I didn't bring today, but it's called True Genius. It's our Barnes and Noble line. Okay. And they're more. The classic wood puzzles, it might sit on your desk or on a itself, a little like more of an old world look to them.

  [00:55:25] Azhelle Wade: Right. It's like those, is this in your office for decorations? Yeah. Right. They're nice . And then when you get bored, you can just do a brain teaser.

  [00:55:32] Brandi Pinsker: Exactly. Yeah. That's what we all do when we're bored, right? Yeah. Yeah. Brain teasers. Exactly. So yeah, those are like aesthetically, I think a little more intended for adults. Oh, okay. Yeah. We do like the secret boxes where you can put cash into a box and they've gotta solve it to get their present.

  [00:55:49] Azhelle Wade: Okay. So tell me about some of the stuff you brought here today. What, what do you have that we can play with?

  [00:55:53] Brandi Pinsker: I brought a hyp, a twist, a hyp. This is actually not even a brain tease. This is one of our first fidget toys that we made. So we can, and I'll let you play with this, but it just continues to loop on itself. us. Otherwise, did I break it? You didn't break it. This is the other direction. There you go. Oh, and it just keeps going.

  [00:56:14] Azhelle Wade: Interesting. So do you work with inventors a lot?

  [00:56:17] Brandi Pinsker: We do. As a matter of fact, we work with an inventor on this, and his name is Oscar van de Inventor. Isn't that a great name?

  [00:56:24] Azhelle Wade: Oscar van an inventor. So actually since this would be a really good time to give advice for inventors that are watching, what kind of product does Project Genius?

  [00:56:34] Brandi Pinsker: I think we're really willing to look at anything that falls into this category. If it can be. Even a game, a multiplayer game, but as long as we can somehow tie it back to a brain teaser so that it stays within our family, within our brand. Okay. Is something that we would look at.

  [00:56:50] Azhelle Wade: How would you define a brain teaser?

  [00:56:53] Brandi Pinsker: Anything that requires you to think it requires a little bit of logic, a little bit of, you know, it could be a visual spacial reasoning, logic. It's, you know, something that makes you think you would never see us doing, fart games or yeah, anything too silly.

  [00:57:10] Azhelle Wade: That's good to know. What is this one we've got here?

  [00:57:12] Brandi Pinsker: This is a gear ball and this sort of works like a Rubik's Cube. It's a solved State right now. Okay. So we've got a solid color on every side, but as I mess it up, oh no, see that it runs on campus. Oh my gosh. Now don't do what I just said. All adults do give this a try. Oh my gosh.

  [00:57:28] Azhelle Wade: So is this one from an inventor?

  [00:57:31] Brandi Pinsker: It is. So this is a distributed line for us. So the company that I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, recent toys, they have the worldwide rights for this and then where their Yep. Okay. Where their us, US distributor.

  [00:57:41] Azhelle Wade: Oh, so he turned it, he flipped it back to an invention studio? Yes. This is real. It feels great, doesn't it? It's, yeah.

  [00:57:48] Brandi Pinsker: We really love things that are like fidgety. Like what I like about gear Ball is that even if you can't solve it, it's really fun to fidget with and play with. So there's like not a whole lot of pressure to solve it until you're ready.

  [00:58:00] Azhelle Wade: So how do you find inventors, or how do inventors find you?

  [00:58:04] Brandi Pinsker: We do a few shows, like we did Mary's show a couple of weeks ago. You know, we haven't worked with a ton of inventors in the past it's fairly new for us. Oh, okay. We've developed some stuff in, you know, we've developed some stuff internally and we still do.

  [00:58:20] Azhelle Wade: How many designers do you have working with you internally?

  [00:58:23] Brandi Pinsker: We are the design team. I'm part of the design team. Great ideas come from everywhere. If our bookkeeper came to me and had an idea, we would explore it.

  [00:58:29] Azhelle Wade: Do you work with any of your family on this company? I do. Who?

  [00:58:33] Brandi Pinsker: My my sister runs the company with me. We didn't know this about ourselves before we started a company together, but we compliment each other so well. How so she is, She is so structured and so organized, and she can execute on something like nobody I've ever met in my life.

  [00:58:48] Really. She is just a dream in operations, she doesn't like traveling. She doesn't like, Sales, marketing, any of that kind of stuff. But I love all that stuff. Oh, that's amazing. And so, yeah, we just, we compliment each other really well.

  [00:59:01] We're gonna try a different one here. You're gonna look good today cause you're gonna solve a brain teaser on or not. Fast. When we first made this puzzle, we didn't include these labels and then we realized that a lot of people are colorblind. And so we had to throw these in, but this is one of our most popular products.

  [00:59:20] And it's a physical logic puzzle. a lot of parents really love getting their kids off screen, okay? And they love the tactile nature of this. All right, so to start out with, we're gonna set this board up okay. To look like what you see there, right?

  [00:59:32] All right. And then read these clues to figure out where the rest of those colors go. Oh, coral and magenta are in the same column, and your columns are gonna go up and down. So there's one column that is open for two spaces, right?

  [00:59:45] Yes. So this guy, oh, yep. This column here. Okay. Coral and magenta. Black sits next to Magenta. Oh, no. You're okay. Here it is. You got it. Okay. Coral, sit next to white. So that checks out, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're good. Either teal or black. Sits next to pole vaults. Vaults. Okay. All right. All right. And then you've got one space in one here.

  [01:00:07] Oh my gosh. Let's see how she did. I'm a genius. . Doesn't that feel good? That does. Don't you wanna do another one now? Yes, I do. Would you have ever told me before that you're good at brain teasers? No. Right. So, but this feels like. It's true. Yeah. So then, you know, it gets harder as you go on. Like when you get to puzzle number, this is like Sudoku with colors eight. Yeah. So like when you get to puzzle number eight, there are no starter tubes. It gets hard. Cool.

  [01:00:33] Azhelle Wade: So where did this passion for brain brain teasers come from?

  [01:00:38] Brandi Pinsker: You know what I love about this category, you know, In terms of like doing shows like this, like the kids that we get playing in our booth, they're so smart. Yeah. And I love seeing them get it and I love seeing it in adults too. It's really fun. Yeah. I feel like we're putting out products that's good for kids.

  [01:00:57] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Final questions for you. All right. What toy blew your mind as a kid?

  [01:01:02] Brandi Pinsker: I did love board games as a kid. I loved Monopoly and stuff. You did stuff like that? Yeah. We play a lot of games at my house. I've got a son with autism and if you dunno anything about autism, one of the things that typically comes with it is a lot of anxiety. And so like, I think it's really magic how much a board game can calm him down because it makes him think.

  [01:01:22] And so, and he is competitive and so like he'll sort of get into these grooves every now and then where he's pacing and stemming, like we cannot calm him down. Like not with medicine, not with any sort of therapy that we've ever learned. .

  [01:01:36] But if we make him sit down and play bananagrams with us in a minute, he's transformed. It's massive. Wow. I know. So thank you. Thank you Bananagrams . And for watching. They, I mean, it is amazing how much it changes his mood to like walk into something that makes him think.

  [01:01:52] Azhelle Wade: What about brain teasers? Does it have the same effect?

  [01:01:56] Brandi Pinsker: He does like logic puzzles. Okay. He doesn't play ProQ cuz he wouldn't understand it, but he plays like simpler logic puzzles. Okay. So, but what I like about logic puzzles for kids on the spectrum is that they often have trouble with reading comprehen. Yeah. And so, I mean, as you see on these cards, like there's a little bit of reading.

  [01:02:16] Yeah. There's like one sentence, right? And then an action, and then an action, and then one sentence, and then an action. So you're not asking them to digest an entire paragraph Right. And answer a question. Right. It's just, it's very simple. It's very black and white. And there's no nuance to it.

  [01:02:33] Azhelle Wade: is there a future for Project Genius to develop more autism focused products?

  [01:02:38] Brandi Pinsker: Definitely, yeah. One of the things that we're really focused on is employment. For adults with autism. Oh, okay. My son turned 18 this year and you know, when these kids leave high school, that's it. There are no opportunities for them.

  [01:02:52] For the most part. You know, some kids can go to college and ensure that, I mean, that's different, but. When I look at what's gonna happen to my son after high school, it's like the door is shut and that is it. There's just this cliff after high school for these kids. And so there, you know, we really have to find ways to come in and solve this employment issue for them.

  [01:03:12] And so as I'm, as you know, we've started A work program for kids on the spectrum who are working in our warehouse right now. But I'd love to find more ways to, to rope them into maybe product development, maybe graphic design, Mm-hmm. , mm-hmm. The more I think the more I can use Project Genius. Yeah. To solve problems in the autism world. That's really where our future.

  [01:03:38] Azhelle Wade: So, okay. Final bit of advice. I know in my programs and people that listen to this podcast and get a lot of people that are industrial design, So they have the skills to develop new brain teasers, but they may have never thought about it before.

  [01:03:53] Brandi Pinsker: So what advice would you have to get them in the mindset or inspire them to maybe look at inventing something for this category? I would say, you know, obvi, you, this is probably part of your advice anyway, but do your homework first. Us Yes. Go on the shelf. Yeah, it's right. Yeah. And see you, I think before you pitch companies, like see what types of products they sell.

  [01:04:15] Azhelle Wade: Any final words of wisdom for someone who might wanna step into a CEO role at a toy company like you did?

  [01:04:20] Brandi Pinsker: I wish that I had taken more management classes. Really? Yeah. Like, I wish I had figured out the people part of it. You know, like I've spent so much of my early career on the product side of things and sales. Just sort of the hard skills, the nuts and bolts of running a business. Yes. And the people part is so hard to figure out. Right now we have a great staff. Yeah. And I'm just sort of lucky that I have who I have right now.

  [01:04:47] But I think if I get somebody who needs like a lot of coaching and a lot of management and a lot of my time, I'm not good at that stuff. What I've learned with the people management part is like you have to make, you have to show that you care. You can't just assume that they know Yeah. That you're a good person because you're so busy. You're like, like I get on phone calls and I'm like, yeah, did you do this thing? Okay, bye.

  [01:05:05] Great. You know? Right. And then I realize after a month of that, like that's probably not the best environment. Like people need you to say, how are you doing? Yes. What's going on? How can I help further your education through the work you're doing with me? Right, right. Like that's, yeah, and that took a long time to learn.

  [01:05:22] Yeah. I even had the other day, my bookkeeper is kind of new with us. She started last February. I was in my office with our sales manager, who I've worked with her a long time and she knows me very well. And our, but the bookkeeper came in and she was like, I can't tell the tone of your email. Sometimes if you're like being sarcastic, you're mad at me.

  [01:05:39] Oh my gosh. And I was like, no, no. I'm just like trying to get stuff back. Exactly. And my sales manager goes, oh no. She means exactly what she says. Brandi has no layers. . There's no layers. You have to be your signature, like your name's totally should. With regards brandy. No layers. No layers. I mean exactly what I said.

  [01:05:59] Azhelle Wade: That's funny. Well, it was a pleasure having, should finally meet you. Where can people purchase Project Genius products?

  [01:06:05] Brandi Pinsker: We sell a lot of our product into Barnes and Noble. They're probably one of our biggest retailers, but we also sell to specialty stores online.

  [01:06:14] Azhelle Wade: And what's your website?

  [01:06:15] Brandi Pinsker: Project Genius inc.

  [01:06:17] Azhelle Wade: projectgeniusinc.com. Perfect. Thank you for going on the show today. So Nice. Pleasure to meet you. It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you. Take care.

  [01:06:24] --

  [01:06:24] Azhelle Wade: Well, there you have a toy people. I hope you found a lot of value and educational lesson in those interviews. I know this is a long episode for us, longer than usual, so I won't keep you much longer.

  [01:06:37] Just wanted to pop in to remind you to head over to youtube.com/thetoycoach Hit that subscribe button so that you will be notified when the videos of these interviews become available.

  [01:06:51] As always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week, I'll see you later toy people.

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