#250: The Art Of Toy Photography with Mitchel Wu: Extended
Ever wondered how toys come to life through photography? 🎨✨
Mitchel Wu, an acclaimed toy photographer known for his brilliant use of motion and emotion in toy imagery, joins Azhelle Wade in this episode to unravel the magic behind his spectacular work with major clients like Marvel, Disney, and Hasbro.
Learn how he transitioned from a mundane consumer products career to mastering the niche of toy photography, and get insights on making your own products come alive through powerful visuals. Tune in to hear Mitchel’s tips on creating engaging toy stories, using practical effects, and carving out a unique creative style in the competitive field of photography. Explore how storytelling can elevate your social media content and discover why specializing can make all the difference in your professional journey.
From Toy Story-inspired setups to creating dynamic scenes for top brands like Disney and Mattel, Mitchel reveals the secrets behind his craft. Learn how he turned a hobby into a thriving career, why storytelling is at the heart of his work, and his tips for creating scroll-stopping images. Don’t miss this inspiring episode!
Listen For These Important Moments
[04:42] - Mitchel Wu's Background and Career Shift
[07:14]- Discovering Toy Photography
[09:15] - Building a Career in Toy Photography
[15:05] - Creative Process and Techniques
[23:01] - Nostalgia and Emotional Connection
[23:36] - Client Work and Social Media Campaigns
[25:19] - Advice for Aspiring Photographers
[28:29] - Tips for Capturing Great Photos
[30:55] - Storytelling in Toy Photography
[36:10] - The Importance of Social Media
[38:36] - Engagement and Impact in Photography
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This episode is brought to you by www.thetoycoach.com
Want to see Mitchel Wu’s incredible toy photography in action? 🎥✨ Check the link below and explore stunning visuals that bring toys to life with motion, emotion, and storytelling magic. 🌟 Don’t miss out on behind-the-scenes looks, creative tips, and more inspiring content!
Website: www.mitchelwuphotography.com
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Azhelle Wade: [00:00:00] You are listening to Making It In The Toy Industry, Episode 250.
Welcome to Making It In The Toy Industry, a podcast for inventors, entrepreneurs, and makers like you. And now, your host, Azhelle Wade.
Azhelle Wade: Hey there, toy people. Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of Making It In The Toy Industry. This is your weekly podcast brought to you by TheToyCoach.com.
First off, I want to take a moment to wish you and your loved ones a Merry Christmas, a Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, or simply a joyful holiday season, no matter what you celebrate. December is a great time for connection and reflection, celebration, and I hope you're finding little magic in it all, losing yourself in a Hallmark movie or two.
Now, as we wrap up 2024. I'm doing something a bit special and different for this [00:01:00] podcast. For the next few weeks, I'll be sharing extended versions of past podcast episodes that have never been released to the public before. I'm also preparing something exciting for the new year. This podcast is getting a fresh new format.
Yep. Starting January 2025. I'm so excited for you to experience it. The reason behind this new format and the goal of it is for you to be able to retain and take action on the things you learn in this podcast more actively. So stay tuned, stay subscribed, and get ready to learn with even more clarity and focus as we go into the new year.
Now, if you've been doing some holiday shopping and you've been seeing products that you don't think are up to snuff and you got an idea that you think needs to be in stores and you're serious about getting that idea licensed or onto store shelves yourself, let's make it happen together. During a one on one call, we will focus entirely on your specific idea and toy [00:02:00] goals.
I'll help you develop a clear plan of action, connect you with the right decision makers, whether that be factories, retailers, companies, and give you key tools to help you move that idea forward to the next step. This is your chance to get some expert guidance and coaching tailored to your goals and your needs.
If you're lucky, there are still some spots left this year. So visit thetoycoach.com/call to book your session. And we can take a big step forward into getting that idea made into a real product. Start 2025 with the momentum you need to succeed in this industry. so much for spending your holiday season with me.
So without further ado, let's dive into today's extended episode.
Hey there, toy people, Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of The Toy Coach Podcast, Making It In The Toy Industry. This is a weekly podcast brought to you by thetoycoach.com. [00:03:00] Today, I am joined by Mitchel Wu, toy photographer and artist who is known in the toy industry for his stunning stories that he creates through toy photography. Mitchel is an expert in capturing the illusion of motion and emotion where none exists. And he has worked with dozens of toy and entertainment companies like Marvel, the Disney company, Hasbro, Mattel, so many, it's amazing. And I'm so excited to talk to him today.
And we are going to dive in to the art of toy photography, but first. Mitchel, welcome to the show.
Mitchel Wu: Thanks so much. It's been a long time coming. I mean, we tried to do this a few times. And as I said earlier, third time's a charm. It's so cool to be here. Thank you so much.
Azhelle Wade: I'm really glad that you're here.
The first thing I want to say is almost a huge thank you because you were one of the, the biggest names to support me and my podcast early on when I, when I took like a [00:04:00] chance and talked about something that was like a tough topic, you just shared it so openly and supportively. And even when the trolls came out, you were defending me.
I really appreciate you noticing me honestly and supporting me. So thank you.
Mitchel Wu: Oh, you're so welcome. I mean, it's, um, you had an amazing message and that was probably one of the most amazing and courageous posts that I'd seen in quite a while. So, and it totally resonated with me and I felt it, you know, being Asian myself and we are going through our own challenges right now, but you know, I just want to support people who have positive things to say and are trying to make a difference.
And that post definitely did.
Azhelle Wade: So, I mean, thank you, thank you, but let's talk about you. You are toy industry famous for your photography. I remember once you liked my stuff, I started stalking you on the internet and then I saw just the coolest images. And okay. To start off, tell us what first came in your career.
Was it toys or photography first?
Mitchel Wu: Actually it was [00:05:00] neither. I have a degree in illustration and I spent 20 years in consumer products. And not too far from the toy industry. I was in the gift and collectibles industry. So whereas, you know, right now my clients are creating amazing toys, the companies that I work for, or my clients back then created really fun giftware and collectibles, and when I say collectibles, that they were either statues or sculptures made out of resin or ceramic, but it could have been something as simple as mugs as well.
So all, you know, the entire gift category. And especially collectibles is something that I focused on for quite a while. Yes, photography, after I left that industry, photography definitely came first. And that was with corporate photography, headshots, wedding photography, lifestyle. And then after that is when toy photography came in.
Azhelle Wade: I've always thought about photography, and I apologize for saying this in advance. I've always thought about photography as probably one of the dying businesses, right? Because of all the stock photos and stuff. Like, were you nervous about that when you broke into it?
Mitchel Wu: No, [00:06:00] because let's see, I was probably naive.
So it wasn't something that scared me. I just really wanted to do something else. And in 2006, I was at the end of my consumer products career. I had the highest paying job of my life, but it was also the worst job of my life. And around the same time, I lost my older brother. And those two things combined really, really made me take a close look at what I was doing with my life and why I was so unhappy and how I got so far off my path.
The path that I originally thought I would be on when I got out of art school, right? I didn't out of art school. I had all these amazing dreams of what I'd be doing. And I don't have any regrets at all, because everything I have today, including my family, my wife, my kid is because of that career choice that I've made, but in 2006, it would really kind of all came to a head and I knew I had to figure something else out. So photography was something that I'd always been interested in. It was something that I had very little experience with. So there was a huge learning curve, but it was something that I was really [00:07:00] intent on doing and something that I had to focus on and it was a slow start.
There's been peaks, huge peaks and valleys along my whole photography career. I would say that I, you know, after a while, when I was a wedding photographer, I definitely survived, but I wouldn't say I thrived. It wasn't until in 2015, late 2015, when I discovered toy photography, that I know that I found something that I really, really wanted to do with the photography.
I was fine with wedding photography. I enjoyed it. I feel like I was a really strong wedding photographer, but in 2015, my kid was going to high school and I was missing so much of her weekends because weddings. Only happened on the weekends for the most part. So that was like the deciding factor for me that I was going to try something else.
And it was just serendipity, basically, that toy photography came into my life. And I never looked back. I never looked back.
Azhelle Wade: Hold on. First of all, I didn't know about your brother. I'm so sorry.
Mitchel Wu: It was so unexpected. He was 49. And you have no expectation that somebody that age. Someone that you're really close to is going to be here one day and gone the next.
And it was a [00:08:00] huge gut punch. I never knew that a person could feel so much like physical pain from sorrow. Yeah. But you know, it's easy because as time goes on, thankfully that does get better. And of course, if you felt that way all the time, it would be miserable, but just a natural healing process. And you get over it and you're left with the great memories and hopefully, yeah, go ahead.
Azhelle Wade: Just a little curious because you said the word memories, do you feel like that loss is, and wanting to be holding onto memories is kind of what led you to photography?
Mitchel Wu: I don't think so. I mean, I think in a sense, yes, because that was kind of like, the thing that really made me realize that I was unhappy doing what I was doing and that I needed to try something, to do something that I felt more passion for something that I could like, where I could find that creativity that I always thought my life would be focused around when I left art school.
And from that standpoint, yes, my brother was pivotal in making me realize that for, for sure. Yes.
Azhelle Wade: Interesting. Okay. All right. So you just had a whole [00:09:00] new lease on life, which, you know, unfortunately happened, but at the same time, like when it's similar for me, when I had like that near death life changing moment, that's when I realized, like, I need to do something with my life.
It gives new value to what is left of life or what you have to come. And all of that, like. So starting with your career in toy photography, how did you discover it?
Mitchel Wu: So my nephew, I was on Facebook and my nephew, he was on Facebook and I started seeing these really crazy photos that he was creating with toys.
One that really stands out. My memory is one where he had a Ninja turtle. riding a little BMX bike, these toys, and it was soaring across the sky, like maybe between two rocks or something. And I thought, wow, that is really cheesy. That was my first thought. And the second thought was like, how the heck did he do that?
Was he sitting there and throwing these toys across like this little canyon here and just trying to take the shot until he finally got lucky and got it. So that was my first thought. And then my nephew, his name is Johnny. He started saying, "Hey, Uncle Mitch, next time you're up in San Francisco, you know, bring your [00:10:00] camera and I'll take you out. We'll go shoot some toys." And I thought, "Okay, that sounds fine."
Azhelle Wade: For a living, or he was doing it as a hobby?
Mitchel Wu: Hobby. Total hobby. I don't know that anybody was doing it as a living back then.
Azhelle Wade: I was going to ask you, I don't know why, but I get the sense that you created something, like you created a space that didn't exist.
Mitchel Wu: I think that might be possible. But anyway, so I went up to finally made it to San Francisco a few months later, which is where he was. He took me to a park. I didn't have any toys. I had the camera gear, obviously I had the camera gear, which was great, but I had no toys. And so he lent me a couple of storm troopers and went to a park and I set them up.
I sent these two storm troopers up in between like the crook of a tree and it looks really cool. And I shot it and like almost immediately I realized like "What the? There's definitely something here with toy photography." Like I feel like there's a career to be made at it. That's what I was thinking.
And basically that was the starting point. That was the starting point. And I found out that toy photography basically lived on Instagram. I was on Instagram since 2012, but it was only to spy on my daughter. You know,
Azhelle Wade: [00:11:00] Great parenting. That's what you got to do, to see what they're doing.
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. You always got to keep tabs on those kids. Yes. But so once, once I found out that toy photography lives on there, I started being more active and you know, so that's, we're all like, I post literally all my photos there and, and most of my client photos will make it there too, if I'm able to post them
Azhelle Wade: When you started this, did you immediately know how to get jobs or you're just building a portfolio essentially?
Mitchel Wu: I spent the first year figuring out the techniques and really like the effects that I wanted to use, like I create all my effects practically, which means they're for the most part, real effects. So if you see like liquid splashing, I'm splashing the liquid. If there's an explosion, I'm blowing off fireworks.
So if there's a fire, I'm lighting something on fire. So I was figuring out. Yeah, I was figuring all that stuff out in the first year and putting together what you saw on Instagram in that first year. And actually it was late 2016 is when I hit the ground running. I mean, my first client, my very first client was a company called I Am Elemental Toys.
Are you familiar with them?
Azhelle Wade: Well, [00:12:00] because of your website.
Mitchel Wu: Oh, yes. Julia Kerwin. And I love her action figures and what they represent. And so I was reaching out to her for probably a half a year saying, "Hey, I would love to create, you know, Oh, you know what?" And she would reply, "Oh, I love your work. I'm not ready."
And so I was persistent. And probably a half year later is when she finally said, yeah, let's do it. So that was my first client. And then I was on Instagram. And I noticed that a certain division from, it was, it was a brand called Ever After High and yeah, the dolls. And I noticed that they started following me.
So as soon as I saw that I sent a private message on Instagram and said, "Hey, I would love to create some images for you." And like almost immediately I had a one year contract with them.
Which was cool. Yeah. Which was cool. And then it, it just built, it just built from there. So it's, it started off again, that first year was just focused on the craft and putting together the work. And then after that, it just, it just snowballed.
Azhelle Wade: You're amazing. And you took a chance. You didn't wait, like they followed you. You didn't say, "Oh, let me formulate a plan and [00:13:00] a strategy." And like, you were just like, DM, you just. DM them back. Yes.
Mitchel Wu: Immediately, almost immediately, like within 15 minutes. And then we took it from there to email and it, and it was really fast.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Can I ask what your contract entails for you? Is it like, I do a certain number of images for a certain number of events. Like, or is it like, I am your, your photographer, whatever you want, you send to me. Like what's it like?
Mitchel Wu: Yeah, it's a, it's a blend of, it's a little blend of both those things. Okay. I think we, we were contracted for like, I think 10 to 15 images per month, which is quite a bit actually.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah, that sounds like a lot. Um,
Mitchel Wu: Yeah, it is a lot.
Azhelle Wade: You're like, was it a mistake?
Mitchel Wu: The team that I worked with there, it was really good and I enjoyed it and they gave me a lot of creative freedom. They would basically, which is actually how I love to work. They give me the, like, for them, they had a theme that they wanted to work, um, towards every month.
So if it was September, it was maybe back to school. If it was summer, it would be summertime activities. They would give me that kind of theme. And then I would just, I would just create the images [00:14:00] and then I would basically creative direct my own images, which is cool.
Azhelle Wade: At what point were you, did you even realize that you had created a job out of this?
Mitchel Wu: It was right around then when I got that contract. Yeah, but I mean that, but that was the goal. That was, that was absolutely the goal from the very first second that I took that first toy photo with my nephew.
Azhelle Wade: Like, okay. I have several, several questions. Let me say focus on toy photography first. First question is you don't know this, but I'm very impressed with photographers and photography.
Like I have a couple of friends that they don't like use Instagram often, but when they post they're posting photography, it's beautiful. And you can see how they see the world through what they post. Right. One of them is my best friend. And I literally have been in a situation where I'm like, I'm going to try to copy this photo you just took because I just want to understand how you see things and how you think.
And like, I can't, I'm just not, I'm not a photographer. That is just not something that I do. I can do so many things. I literally will call my [00:15:00] boyfriend in before I set up a shot. And I'm like, does this look like, can you just tell me like, cause I can't see it. And I'm, I'm just curious, like, what do you have to do to get into your mindset to shoot for toys?
Like what is the toy photographer mindset?
Mitchel Wu: I'm sure everybody's different, but for me, it's, you definitely have to go into it with that sense of play. And for me, it's like, we all played with toys. That's the one thing that I think all of us probably have in common. There's a few things, but one I could safely say is that we all played with toys when we were kids.
And so it's a matter of like getting to that space that you're talking about. It's like trying to find that I haven't talked about that 10 year old kid that lives inside of me. And, you know, maybe at first it was a little harder to find, but right. Like I've been doing this for, since late 2015. And that little 10 year old boy basically lives pretty close underneath the surface of my skin now.
So where I could get them out, but I'll be honest, I've always been kind of immature and I have a very quirky, strange sense of humor, which sometimes will come out in my toy photography and my personal stuff. And so it's [00:16:00] always like, "Okay, do I want to post this? This is pretty weird, but I'll post it." Yeah.
Because I mean, it's, it's really, it's me. And I think if there's one thing that you, myself and most people have learned, it's that. You need to be authentic when you're like for yourself, for your own self well being, but it's like, that's what people react to. I mean, it's ridiculous to try and be something that you're not.
So I try to let out that 10 year old boy as much as possible, because first of all, it's great for my career. Second of all, it's just fun to have that kid around too, because it keeps me happy. And it's like, you know, we've gone through some tough times in the past. Well, I don't know, at least the past year, but more than that.
So, you know, if you have that sense of humor and sense of play, it makes it a lot easier.
Azhelle Wade: So tell me what's the weirdest photo that you posted that you were like, should I, should I posted this? Okay.
Mitchel Wu: I have, I have a few. Like there's one that I recently had that that's really bizarre that I reposted but it's not something that I feel would be weird for people to see it's the one of Gollum, [00:17:00] and he's like, he's from Lord of the Rings right yeah it's like riding a horse and he's hurting a bunch of rancor which are these Star Wars monsters.
I see it. Yeah, I see it.
Yeah, so that one's pretty bizarre. In fact, a lot of people that saw that basically commented in kind ways that it's really bizarre.
Azhelle Wade: Is he carrying, like, Woody's hat? Like, what is
Mitchel Wu: Well, it's not Woody's hat. It's just, he's, it's just a cowboy. It's a cowboy hat from my, from my childhood that I had. That's like, that's one toy that I still have is that cowboy. But another one that was really, that I actually thought, well, this is a little weird.
Azhelle Wade: Someone said, ha ha, so Mitch.
Mitchel Wu: Did somebody? Yeah. So that person knows me.
Azhelle Wade: GT range says "ha ha. So cool, Mitch." Yeah. This is great.
Mitchel Wu: So the other strange, like one that comes to mind is, you know how the movie Alien, have you seen the movie Alien?
Azhelle Wade: Yeah. But so long ago.
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. So there's a very iconic scene where one of the characters, yeah, the character has the, has the juvenile or baby alien pop out of his stomach at the dinner table. And so I [00:18:00] recreated that, but I'm not sure if you'll find it cause it's kind of far down in the feed, but so the premise of the story was that sometimes those little baby aliens get turned around inside and they come out the wrong spot of the human body. And so this one was like popping out of the storm trooper's rear basically .
Azhelle Wade: I'm scrolling. Oh, I see.
Mitchel Wu: Can you, can you swipe that because I think I put a close up on it if you swipe it too. Yes. You did? Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: Oh my.
Mitchel Wu: And then I love, like the other storm troopers, kind of like they're in shock seeing what's happening to their buddy.
Azhelle Wade: Let's see the comments. What did the Zeno do inside there? I guess Pepto Bismol didn't work. Hi, yes, ma'am. Oh my gosh, this is great. Oh, it's so fun. So I'm curious, how much of the stuff that you do is more fun, the fun stuff that you do for you than it is for your client work?
Mitchel Wu: It's, I would say it's probably 90 percent my stuff.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's so great. That means you really love it. You really love it.
Mitchel Wu: I mean, when I'm not doing client work, I'm, and if I'm not busy with like marketing or some of the other business stuff, [00:19:00] I like to shoot my own stuff.
And, for me, it's, that's a way of like, kind of just continually working on my storytelling, maybe trying out some new techniques that I, that I want to try out and, you know, just to stay busy on social media, which is important.
Azhelle Wade: Tell me the coolest shot set up, like shot that you've made. Like not the weirdest now, like, like the, like the most intricate, like most intricate. For somebody who doesn't know anything about photography, it looks like, Oh, did they Photoshop this? But then I've seen some behind the scenes things where you can see like fishing line, right?
Mitchel Wu: I usually use like wire. I usually like wire, like metal wire to support stuff, but once in a while, if it's a really heavy toy, then I'd have to suspend it with fishing line. Like you say, cause it's easier to do, but the most intricate. Yeah, well, I did a really like intricate lighting one with a creature from the Black Lagoon.
And he's probably more recent than the one that we just looked at. But I use these lights called Lytra lights and their little LEDs. That one you can see there's like water and there's a [00:20:00] glow coming up. So I put all these lights underneath the water because they're waterproof. First of all, The lights are waterproof and I put these colored gels on them and I color gel the back.
So that's why you have the red in the background and the bubbles that you see and the smoke coming up from the bubbles. It kind of looks like dry ice, but really all I did was shoot some compressed air underneath the water. Wow. And that's basically what happens. That's basically what happens.
Azhelle Wade: I have to ask, are you happy with your job now that you've made this, this crazy career shift?
Mitchel Wu: Yeah, no, totally. I can't imagine doing like throughout my career, I consider myself a restless creative and my poor wife, she had to get used to that because like I had the best job ever at Disney when I was in consumer products. And after six years, I just got kind of tired of working with the same IP.
And so, but other than that, like, the people were amazing. I had passes to all the parks in the world we could go to. But ultimately I got a little bored creatively and I wanted to try something else. So I left that job. So I don't see myself [00:21:00] making that switch now. I mean, I've done so many different things.
And I think this is the one that that's finally going to stick just because it allows me to be as creative as I can. So any limitation on my creativity for this particular career is self imposed. So if I can't get out of that, then I only have myself to blame. And toys are the perfect for me, the perfect vehicle for telling stories, because they can do almost anything that you want them to do.
They can fly, they can be blown to bits, they can, you know, stuff that you can't do with people essentially, you know, shooting weddings was, you know, going from photographing weddings to photographing toys was like, was like amazing. Like,
Azhelle Wade: You didn't feel isolated?
Mitchel Wu: No, no, no. Like the little joke that I like to tell is I went from shooting Bridezilla to shooting Godzilla.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. But having said that, I've never photographed a Bridezilla. All my brides that I shot were cool, but, but I coined a term called Momzilla. Those things do exist. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The mothers of the [00:22:00] brides can be the ones that can give you a big headache, but yeah, yeah. Total creativity.
Azhelle Wade: Do you have any toys that are like your favorite to pose and shoot?
Mitchel Wu: You know, toys have, as you probably know, toys have varying degrees of quality and articulation. So I work with toys that are not articulated. They're more like little statues, like cake toppers. Like I've worked, like I'll sometimes go into Amazon and I'll just check out different cake toppers because they have really nice cake toppers.
You just can't pose them, you know, but of course, they're usually in like an iconic pose. So you can at least get one shot out of them. And if you're lucky, you can get several shots out of them. But yeah, I probably the toys that I really enjoy working with are like, I obviously love the Toy Story toys and I think more, more than the quality or the articulation or anything is my connection to the toys or this more, more so the connections to the, the properties and the stories. Like I shoot a lot of Toy Story because my kid and I, we watched when she was growing up, I watched those [00:23:00] movies with her dozens of times, you know? And so for me, it's driven by nostalgia.
And I feel like if I have an emotional connection to a property or a toy, then that's going to come through in the final image, like where the wild things are.
I've done several images of those. And that's because once a week I would sit, my daughter and I would sit at the floor on the, like, by her bed and I'd read her that story. Once a week we'd read that, at least once a week we'd read that story. That's probably her favorite story. So when I saw that McFarlane had done those toys a while ago, I found them on the second, like, on eBay and I bought them because I had to create some images with them.
So definitely it's the property. It's the property.
Azhelle Wade: What kind of clients do you do work for? Do you do product photography or is it more like When they have a special event and they want to do a big banner or poster or magazine cover, like what are your clients like?
Mitchel Wu: Right. It's, it's both those things and more. So for, I would say most of the clients that I have, they want their, maybe they're coming out with a new toy line and they want to create a social media campaign around it. [00:24:00] And so. I would say that the majority of my work is for social media, like for clients to put on social media. And then on the other hand, I've had like, uh, Disney, one of the jobs I did for Disney, it was to promote the release of Toy Story 4.
So that was more of a promotional thing. It went out to all the press and it was like in newspapers and things like that. Yeah. So that's the other kind of the other aspect of it. And then I did one job for Warner Brothers, which no one will ever see because it was used as a pitch to a large IP holder.
So, so I did these images was actually for Harry Potter and it was Harry Potter toys. And they brought it to somebody to say, this is what we have. We want to do for a, for a TV show or whatever it was going to be for. So that's also another part of it. So I, it's hard to say what's going to come up next, but probably like the first one that I said, it's going to be for social media, but it could be almost anything else as well.
So for Marvel 616, that's a documentary currently streaming on Disney Plus. I was featured in episode [00:25:00] six, which is like the toy episode.
Which was cool. And so, but out of that, they had me, they commissioned me to do the, the key art, which was used to promote the episode. So that was fun. That was a lot of fun.
Azhelle Wade: I'm just amazed, like even, like, I don't know, I'm just amazed that you built this all so quickly in the toy industry. It's a business that almost didn't exist before. I guess if, if somebody listening is thinking like, Oh my God, I love photography. I would love that to be my job. What advice just would you have for them just having gone from the very beginning?
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. So you're right back to that point that you discussed earlier. I don't, I feel like I've been kind of a trailblazer as far as toy photography in the industry goes. No doubt. There's like. Thousands of toy photographers worldwide doing this as a hobby.
And some of them are actually getting paid jobs through different toy companies now. But I don't think it was a thing five years ago, for sure. So if anybody there, there are people that would love like the toy photographer. I have a lot of friends that would love [00:26:00] to do this as a full time job. I won't lie.
It's tough, but I always say like, I'll talk to any creator, any creative person and tell them that for me. And I think this can apply to almost any creative. So for me, I've seen both sides. I was a wedding photographer and I consider that one of the most competitive, um, genres of photography to work in.
I was squarely in, in the section of wedding photographers that I consider a commodity. So my prices probably started like, if I'm remembering correctly, $2000, $2, 500 for a wedding, it went up to probably $5, 000. But that range right there, especially in the, my beginning rate was probably the most competitive area to be.
And so I would have clients meet with me and or potential clients. And even though I love, they love my work, I knew that when they left the door, they were going to probably talk to four or five more wedding photographers to probably shop them if they liked the photography at, but they also had a killer price that they would probably get the job.
And it was a time when I felt I had very little strength in negotiating [00:27:00] or in charging what I thought I was worth. So if any creators are listening, I think the key is to definitely find a niche to work in. And my niche is toy photography. And if you don't have a niche, then you have to find a way to really differentiate yourself from your competitors because you need to stand out somehow.
And you need to be the person that somebody wants to go to for a specific reason, whether it's the specific toy design that you're coming up with. The photography, or if it's a specific service that you offer, it has to be something that draws a person to you that they can't go anywhere else for. I always like to say that, you know, as creators, we need to take risks, but I think for your audience, I think most of them already are, you know, because they're, because I mean, I have so much appreciation and respect for like, for sure toy inventors. And that's something that I even dabbled with when I was in a previous career. But, but having said that I never came out with a toy design of my own, but I have designed and licensed my own like collectible lines.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, cool.
Mitchel Wu: [00:28:00] And having said that, like licensing is such an amazing thing to be involved with. As you know, it's almost like acting, you do a job and then for months or years later, you still get those checks, which is cool. Yeah. So, although I love what I'm doing now, I would love to design my own toy line at some time in the future.
Yeah. It's just like, I think that's the, I think that would be the ultimate, of course, that I'd photograph it myself.
Azhelle Wade: Yes.
Mitchel Wu: So it'd be fun, but yeah,
Azhelle Wade: Thinking in that vein, I'm wondering, cause some of my listeners, like, you know, they start up their own companies, they're really small and they might say, I'm not ready to hire a toy photographer yet, but do you have any tips for somebody that's just using their cell phone and just trying to take interesting photos of their own stuff?
Like, and honestly, this advice can even apply to me because I don't even know. Like, I don't know. Like when I take a photo, I just sometimes get lucky and it's a great composition. There's literally, it's when you see good photos of me [00:29:00] on online, my boyfriend took them. I did not take. So like, I don't know any advice that you could give somebody that's created a product.
And they're like, I just want to be able to point and shoot. What should they be paying attention to? Is it lighting? Is it positioning? Is it, what is it?
Mitchel Wu: Yeah, I would say first and foremost, it's probably light. Cause that can, you make or break a photo, no matter how good, you know, everything else is like, if you don't have good light, it's just going to look all muddy.
There's not going to be any contrast. Yeah. I would say, and as an easy start, like window light is really beautiful. Not necessarily sunlight coming directly onto your toy, but like more of a diffused light.
Azhelle Wade: Yeah.
Mitchel Wu: Beautiful light. And then sometimes if you do that, the shadow can be so strong on the opposite side of the light that if you just place, it could be even a desk lamp, just play around with the Um, angles and you can kind of soften that shadow, but I think that's the main key is, is light.
Azhelle Wade: For someone just starting. Do you think it'd be better if they're like, if they're like, okay, I just need some basic images, but I also want them to be interesting. Would they be better off just like getting a kind of [00:30:00] like a seamless background? That's one color and putting their product on that, or trying to get fancy and like go outside and like do it like in that way for somebody that's just starting out.
Mitchel Wu: Yeah, I mean, it's two different things. So for me, it's like, I've I'm often, well, not often, but I used to get asked to take like photos of toys for like white on white backdrops for catalogs. And really online. Yeah. But I politely turned that down, you know, because when I started doing this, I just, I knew I just wanted to focus on creative storytelling.
So it really kind of depends on what the person is after. Like, if you wanted to shoot a toy, do you want, is it more for Amazon? In which case you're definitely going to want to do that. Yeah. The white background.
Azhelle Wade: I'm thinking more social media. Like what if they were just trying to fill their, their social media with more angles and images that are interesting of their product?
Like being a beginner, are they better off just going solid background or trying to get fancy outside or kitchen table. Yeah. I mean,
Mitchel Wu: I would take it outside or, or, or even inside with props. And I wouldn't, I don't know if it's getting fancy, but it's, and it's really, I mean, I, [00:31:00] so what I think is for me, what I think is most important is storytelling, right?
Okay. So I would rather see. You take a photo of your toy with some kind of story and not be a great photo. I'd rather see that than see you nail the photo, but not tell me anything emotionally with that product.
Azhelle Wade: Is there like a thing you go through in your head when you're planning a story for your shots?
Mitchel Wu: No, there's no thing. There's no thing. I mean, each thing is different. So it's, it's really about the toy and what comes into my head as far as how do I want to portray that toy in the world that I'm creating. And so, like for example, for a client photo, if I'm working with a toy company, like my goal. Okay.
So first of all, in general, or even my own work, not necessarily a client I want like, everybody is so used to thumbing through photos on Instagram really quick. Right. So I want my photo to be dynamic, first of all, so get that person to stop scrolling for a second. And then second, I really want there to be some kind [00:32:00] of intriguing story or some kind of emotion or something happening that really grabs that person by the collar and kind of pulls them into that role that I've created for just a few seconds, just so that they can kind of live in there.
Because when that happens, I mean, I think they really start to see. The toy that's in there and how it's reacting with the, with the world that I created and it makes an impact. It's more engaging. And for a client, I think that's exactly what they want. They want people to really engage with that toy and the story that's being told in that image, because that's, what's going to make that person remember that toy and you know, that engagement and getting that impact.
I think those are the things that a client would be after as far as if I'm creating a photo for them. So I think it's the same for you or for anybody else that wants to put their toys, especially for social media, not just show that toy and like, here's my toy, you know, if here's a toy and there's something really cool or interesting, it's tugging on some kind of emotion or it's making you laugh or whatever it is.
I mean, it's a photo. So you have to tell, obviously when I [00:33:00] say tell a story, it could be like just an emotional, bam, like a media impact, or it could be something that you infer something and you make that person kind of complete that story in their head.
Azhelle Wade: Can I pick a photo from your Instagram and have you walk me through the story? Okay, I picked this one. I picked the one with Woody and the slinky dog coming out of the donut and then there's an alien in the donut.
Mitchel Wu: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: So tell me the story about this.
Mitchel Wu: So for a lot of my images, I just want them, obviously this, there's a lot of fun action going on here. We have slinky dog jumping through the donut.
And for me, it's like, the backstory would be, you know, donuts, there's going to be a, there's somebody who's about to have breakfast there, they turn their back or they leave the room for a second in Toy Story fashion, they come to life and they start doing these, and they start doing these like really fun, fun things or different scenarios.
So. For Toy Story, I love Toy Story, aside from the fact that what I told you that I have a lot of warm memories of it, Toy Story is just great because [00:34:00] it's the one chance that I have to create toys using toys, and they are toys. In their storyline in their lives, they are toys. So for me, it's like, These are amazing because I don't have to worry about, you know, scaling them to look like they're supposed to be people,
right? They work perfectly with real world environments and props. So what kind of stories can I tell in those situations? And in this particular day, it was just like, I'm going to have slink dog instead of jumping through a hoop or something like train dogs often do. I'm going to have him jumping through a donut.
Woody's going to be all excited. There's going to be donut crumbs flying around. And the alien is just kind of like a, like one of the audience member, he's just there essentially.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's, I love, I didn't even think like, I love that you thought like, yeah. Somebody's having breakfast. What mayhem will they cause?
And then like, you relate that, like, that's so, this is why I'm not a photographer. Oh, no, no, no.
Mitchel Wu: It's not that. It's again, thinking about, for me, it's thinking about, so a lot of, some, like, I, like, where [00:35:00] I get a lot of my stories from,
I like to look at, you know, characters that we all think we know really well.
This is not a good example of it. This Woody one, but other ones I'll get ideas for is like, well, we know because we're told how to, we're told what these characters are essentially like the writers and the creators. They tell us like, Woody is this type of person, Buzz Lightyear is this kind of person, Darth Vader's, you know, so we're essentially force fed what these characters are and we have to go with it.
Cause that's what we're told. But what I love to think about is what Are these characters like when we're not watching them when, you know, when they're relaxing and not on stage, you know, what do they do? So I can get so many really fun ideas from that. Like Darth Vader, for example, is he always 24 seven? Is he a villain or does he relax in his off time? You know? So,
Azhelle Wade: And that's also why that stops the scroll because people you're showing people like another side that they're not expecting. Exactly. And that's a really great tip for somebody that wants to do it with their own product. Like maybe they're always showing their doll or something in, in one light.
It'd be fun to take a [00:36:00] turn one day and show like, this is what she does and I'm not looking. That's so great. Absolutely.
Mitchel Wu: Absolutely. It's looking at, it's looking at life a little differently through a different lens almost to see the unexpected.
Azhelle Wade: How do you see photography evolving and changing with the growing popularity of advertising and shopping online?
Mitchel Wu: Well, for one thing, for sure, it's very, it's always getting more competitive, you know, that's, I mean, I will say that with the advent of digital photography, it's enabled everybody to really purchase an affordable camera and hang that professional photographer shingle on the door, whatever they do. And so obviously it's buyer beware.
You know, but, but everybody's got to chase their dreams and do what they want to do. For me, I feel like social media is probably the big change of the most recent years, because whereas companies maybe used to have huge advertising budgets, maybe now it's they're giving some of that advertising budget to social media because social media is almost like the new advertising.
And [00:37:00] so for, you know, like I said, like a lot of my work is for social media.
And I would just say to photographers out there, like if a company comes to you and says, you know, , you don't have a huge budget for this. It's better anyways, just for social media. Well, social media is the new advertising.
So, so I would say I would push back on that and say, "Well, You know what, how else are you going to do your advertising if not through social media?", because this is where, where people are discovering and trusting and being told stories about your product. So, you know, I think photographers and creators in general have to kind of relook at how they consider social media in their pricing schemes.
Azhelle Wade: I also feel like your images could be really good live photos since video does so well on social, like if, even if it's like two seconds of your shot would be a really cool way to promote, to, to get even more reach with your
Mitchel Wu: Motion. Motion is definitely, definitely important. And yeah. And [00:38:00] I've always thought about getting into motion, but one thing at a time, I think.
So yeah, it's like, where do you want to devote your focus and attention? Because there's a learning, learning process. And right now I've carved out a pretty nice niche. So I think I'm going to keep focusing on that, but definitely, um, I've played with motion in the past and I'll probably get there again at some point.
Azhelle Wade: If people are thinking like, "Oh, I really love Mitchel's work. I want to work with him, but I just don't know how I could use this kind of like imagery to really propel my business."
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. I mean, that's a really good question. I will say that in my experience, the engagement levels are incredibly high with toy photography.
So I could be, I think I could be safe in saying that no matter how toy photography is used, if there's, if the goal is to create engagement and impact, I think that it can be the main part of a campaign.
Azhelle Wade: Have you ever had somebody come to you and say, "Mitchel, I want to drive [00:39:00] engagement and this is my toy. What kind of shot do you think we should do?"
Mitchel Wu: Yes, I mean, I do have that. I mean, it kind of goes along with them giving me creative direction when they do hire me, because for me, it's really about, again, it's really about storytelling. So I will never create an image, or I will strongly suggest that a client Doesn't just have me create a static image of a toy that doesn't say much at all.
Azhelle Wade: You know,
Mitchel Wu: I, I, I always kind of liken it to like the summer blockbuster. Like I've been to movies, you know, I paid my 10 for a ticket and I sit there and, and I watch all these explosions and action. And then a week later I'm going, what did I even see? I can't even remember anything about it. So I have nothing against all of those effects, because in the right, in the right story, it's, it's amazing, but the, but the key word is the story. So I will always highly recommend that stories are the, like, no matter what a company decides to do with their advertising or campaign, storytelling should be at the very base of it.
And for toy [00:40:00] photography, again, I couldn't find a stronger medium to tell stories with. And I mean, it's not just toys. When I worked with Mattel, they, you know, I was doing their Ever After High stuff. I did some Monster High Minis and then the, the person I was working with there said, Hey, how would you feel about doing some, working on some, some images for our UNO, for our UNO, not toy line.
It's a game, right? It's probably the most famous card game in the world. And. You know, I paused. I said, well, this isn't even a toy. It's like, right. It's not, it's hardly even three dimensional. It's sort of like two dimensional. But on the other hand, I always, I always told myself that it's really about the story.
It's always about the story. And so I felt like if I could tell an interesting story with that, I would be like, I would enjoy it. So I said, Of course I said, yes, I'll do it. And like, I always, like, the first image I did was I had my wife fold these origami swans out of, I don't, it's down there somewhere.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, I'm gonna look for it. Yeah.
Mitchel Wu: I had her fold a bunch of origami swans out of the [00:41:00] cards, and I, I positioned them so they were flying, oh, wait,
Azhelle Wade: Wait, wait. Out of the cards?
Mitchel Wu: Out of UNO cards. Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: How did she? Like, cause they're so thick.
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. So she tried and it was really almost impossible.
So what I ended up doing was I made these really beautiful colored copies of the cards. And then, and then she folded them out of that. And then I had, I positioned them. So they were, they were flying out of a small page. Yeah. And after I created that image, it was like, not only was I like really excited and happy with it.
I was like, as happy and excited with that image as I was with any toy photo I created up to that point.
So that was when I realized that it really isn't just the toy. It's more about the storytelling.
Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. This is such a great example of that because so many people I think are obsessed with their product and they're like, no, I just want to show my pristine product in the pristine way that it's meant to be shown. And you, toy photography, you're creating art. Out of the toys,
It's not about [00:42:00] showing every single component that comes with it. It's not about showing it like how it comes out of the box. It's creating a story almost by any means necessary. Yeah,
Mitchel Wu: exactly. The first game that I used inadvertently, well, it wasn't inadvertent, but it was toy. It was Woody and Jesse on a Monopoly game and they were, and there's like, there's the Monopoly money flying around and, and the, I think it was used as a cover for the toy book a couple of years ago. And, but that was another instance of like my starting to use games. And it's something that I don't do a lot of, but, uh, but I've had a couple of game companies reach out.
It's gone nowhere, but just if any game companies are listening, I want to do more game photography. So hit me up because I think it's a whole new area for storytelling and just creating some cool, very cool images with, with games
Azhelle Wade: Love it. And I hope some reach out to you because games are doing so well right now. I bet they have the money to invest in some new marketing. They want to keep it going. Any advice you have somebody that might want to be starting in toy [00:43:00] photography or they're struggling with it. What do you have to say?
Mitchel Wu: Yeah, I think the main point, and it would be for any creator, basically, not just toy photographer, is really try to find your own voice and try to have your own, like, develop a really strong style for yourself because it's, there's not going to be any use or it's not going to benefit anybody to come out with, uh, like another Mitch Wu toy photography, just as I wouldn't want to go and look like somebody else.
But I'm sure that there are so many people out there that have, like, there are mind blowing toy photographers doing incredible work right now. It just blows my mind. And it's all happened within five years. Like every time I go on to Instagram, like my jaw drops, it's like, I cannot believe like there's so much talent.
So I would take, you know, if you're doing that, or if you're just getting started, know that it's just a learning curve and you just got to shoot and shoot and shoot and don't forget the other part, which I was talking about. It's just tell a story through it. Okay. So those two things, I mean, I could get into like the nitty gritty, like one would be like, always try to bring yourself down to the level of the toy when you're shooting, because it makes it [00:44:00] easier for the viewer to enter that world that you're creating.
So rather than, but there's rules, there's definitely rules to be broken depending on what you're doing. But in general, that's what I say, because if you're shooting from higher up, it just, it just makes them look more like toys, which is okay. Because I don't try that. I never hide the fact that they're toys.
I don't Photoshop out like the joints or the seam lines. I leave everything in because this is toy photography, you know, and toys is like one half of that. So I will always make sure that my toys are toys. Again, it's about storytelling and letting the person kind of enter the world that you created.
And to do that, try to get down to the toys level, whether that's on a table or like me, I'm often laying on the ground, you know, but whatever it is. And, and don't get wrapped up in the gear initially. Okay. You brought up, you brought up the iPhone. There's amazing work that can be done with like smartphone cameras.
I mean, there's. There's great editing apps. One's Snapseed. I think there's Photoshop that you can get on an app on your phone. There's almost everything that you could do with a [00:45:00] camera, like a SLR and a computer, you can get, you can do it on a phone these days. So I would say don't let like the camera, if you don't have it be a roadblock to like starting, because it doesn't have to be, but yeah, just, I mean, if you're interested in toy photography, even you
Azhelle Wade: Would love to see you try it.
Mitchel Wu: No, you're not because. Cause there should be no expectations. There should be no expectations on what you should create. Just get your toys and try and tell a story. Yeah. Yeah. And remember I would much, unless you're doing it professionally, I say technique is like secondary to storytelling, but obviously if you're doing it professionally, then the two have to be, the two need to be good.
They need to be solid. But as you're just starting out, it's like, I would say focus on the storytelling because everybody just resonates to stories, not the actual photography. Yeah.
Azhelle Wade: Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for the, all these, I love the end. The end. You just blew it up with all these tips. Thank you, Mitchel.
Thanks for being here today. You're welcome. You're welcome. Cool, and where can people [00:46:00] find you?
Mitchel Wu: My website is www.mitchelwutoyphotography.com. If nobody, if anybody's wanting what I do, I think they, your Instagram,
Azhelle Wade: your Mitchel Wu photography.
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. And then, and it's one L in Mitchel and on Facebook, I'm Mitchel Wu Photography, Twitter, I'm at Mitchel Wu Photo.
Azhelle Wade: I will make sure to put it all in the show notes. Thanks so much for being here today. It was a pleasure getting to know you and chat with you.
Mitchel Wu: We finally did it.
Azhelle Wade: We did it.
Mitchel Wu: Yeah. You're awesome. Keep being awesome, Azhelle.
Azhelle Wade: There you have it, toy people, my interview with Mitchel Wu, the Instagram verified toy photographer that you need to be following.
Mitchel's conversation today really changed my perspective about toy photography and, honestly, photography in general. Toy people, I hope that today you learned the value of telling a story through your toy photography, and I would love it. If you would put that lesson into action today, I want you to come up with a story for your toy product.
Do a little photo shoot on your [00:47:00] own, on your phone, post it to Instagram and tag me in it at the toy coach. I want to see what you create for links to Mitchel's website, Instagram, and Twitter. Check the show notes as always. Thank you so much for spending your valuable time with me today. I know there are a ton of podcasts out there, so it means the world to me that you tune into this one until next week, I'll see you later.
Toy people.
Thanks for listening to the making it in the toy industry podcast with a shell. Head over to the toy coach. com for more information, tips, and advice.
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